The Nation, known for its great progressive political stories, surprised me with a long review of Prince's career, and review of Musicology. The review is spot on. What she says about rap and Prince is classic:

http://thenation.com/doc....=1&s=rosen

Now, having failed to master hip-hop, Prince rails against it. His argument--that a turntable is no match for a band, that hip-hop isn't real music, etc.--is a case that even the woodsiest classic rock fans stopped making years ago, and should really be beneath the dignity of a guy whose synthesizer-steeped early records make most hip-hop sound as earthy as an Alan Lomax field recording. It's obvious, anyway, that Prince doesn't believe his own rhetoric. He's clearly obsessed with hip-hop; on Musicology, he keeps mentioning rappers--Missy Elliot, Dr. Dre and Eminem pop up out of nowhere, hobgoblins of Prince's subconscious--and it can't have escaped his attention that the best, most interesting, most beguilingly odd--most Princean--pop music is being made by rappers and their producers. Back on Grammy night, Prince watched the coronation of Outkast, the Atlanta hip-hop duo whose monster hit "Hey Ya!" is, in spirit if not in form, a Prince tribute, and is, truth be told, as woolly and irresistible as anything in the master's own songbook. If Prince is spoiling for a fight, is it because, deep down, he knows that his hip-hop followers have stolen his mojo?

What she is saying is that Prince wishes he could master hip hop, but doesn't know how to--so he lashes out at it, because that is the one form of music he cannot quite do as well as his other stuff. You have to feel hip hop, to get it, in other words.

2freaky4church1 said:

That is probably pretty true.

One of the better articles written this year....

How droll of you, bkw.

That´s an interesting article ..thanks for providing the link.
I kind of agree with the competition aspect .
Didn´t quite get that line about Dre and Eminem.

It DOES seem like she put a lot of thought into what she wrote, rather than some other articles I've read that say all the usual stuff though.

What caught me be surprise is her point that Musicology doesn't stand up to the old stuff. I kind of agree with that, but I have been loving it anyway and actually I never stopped to think about it--I personally don't think you can compare Prince albums, or songs, because they are all really unique.

Oh, "Hey Ya" is quite resistible. And...


This is a statement that makes it seem as if the reviewer never kept up with Prince's catalog after Dirty Mind, because he has NEVER banished double entendres.

Supernova said:

fuck that, they probably skipped the first 3 albums...dm wasn't p's first taste of employing double entendres in his music.

god, i wish folks would quit thinkin that dm was the first inkling of 'im gettin nasty...

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Exactly. They hear him, but they're not listening.

Supernova said:

It's funny, I thought that turntables line in Musicology wasn't any kind of slam, rather, he's saying if it's good as Run DMC, then it's just as good as a live band..."take your pick." But I keep seeing articles that interpret it as some kind of dig.

+ Dre is Andre 3000 not Dr.

MendesCity said:

That's the impression i got from the lyrics also. P likes hiphop but he does'nt like the negativity that is always pushed in the genre. Now he definitley don't like the sampling part of hiphop but some1 creative like Outkast and even as talented as Jam Master J he could appreciate.He even liked 2pac as a rapper. But there r a whole lot of old school artist like Cameo who don't like what's goin on in hiphop with the saturation of Gangsta rap! And P and Cameo r right, a funky ass live band will kick a turntables ass any time. And i think that P has inspired more hiphop artist 2 use live bands on performances and 2become record more musically diverse tracks. I think P has more of a problem with the explicit lyrics that run rampent on the radio with hiphop songs. If u think back P has only had maybe 4 singles out of his catalogue that is mildly risque'.The only song that was a hit and was hands down the nastiest song on radio at the time was Erotic City and that was a B-side that radio DJ's played on their own bcuz the song was a club hit!

MendesCity said:

It starts out that way, but it kinda turns into a dig when he says "If it ain't Chuck D or Jam Master Jay...they losin'. " (Like Elboogy) I'd like to think that it's more of a comdemnation of todays' "back dat thang up - bling bling - big pimpin" hip hop, but I'm not too confident that's what that line's meaning is.
[This message was edited Tue Jul 20 20:50:18 2004 by smoothpants]

"...the extraordinary sonic richness of today's hit radio..." I must be missing something, I'm bored as heck with "today's hit radio."

I have to say...that was a well-written and thoughtful article that manages to somehow unify the two schools of thought about "Musicology" present here on the org...those of us who believe it is one of his most polished and best crafted albums in years and those of us who believe that it lacks a certain something and is kind of like Prince imitating himself. Until reading this, it might never have occured to some of us that both might be true!

Keith/Kacey

The only new thing P could do that he has'nt already, is 2 do a country cd with a country rapper and a old school Lets go crazy guitar solo on it with a Lionel Ritchie remix.(Will y'all b happy then).....oh and i 4got 2add Mike Phillips Roger Troutman Zapp-coder solo.

CandaceS said:

Actually, today's radio is rich sonically, strictly speaking. It may not be melody-rich, but what it lacks in that department it tries to make up with sounds themselves, à la Timbaland.

That article is well written and spot on!
[This message was edited Wed Jul 21 3:55:17 2004 by LookUp2C]

Yeah, this could very well be the most in-depth review of 'Musicology', it seems that she deliberately waited a
few months to have the album grow on her.

The only thing I cannot grasp is the initial excitement of a middle of the road 'classic' Prince album, but having
said that, I am not a middle of the road 'classic' Prince-fan.

Everybody forgets the first lines of Musicology:

"Doug E's gonna b there"

Why would he put in a shout-out to his favourite rapper if he was out to diss hip-hop?

As usual P's attitude has come across confusing. I think he's complaining about the quality, not the genre: "If it ain't Chuck D or Jam Master Jay".
It IS though a partial admission and apology about his embarrassing forays into hip-hop: if u can't do it like the masters...

BTW, this ambivalence was always there: look at the Black Album. "Dead On It" is an explicit dig at talentless rappers, while the album itself is rife with rap.

1 more thought 4 the road: P is part of the pre-rap tradition. He used spoken word as part of the funk b4 hip hop was big, as did GC and JB b4 him. He clicks more with Last Poets style spoken word. Is Cat's Rap on Alphabet Street hip-hop? Not really.

P got a bit confused in the 90s trying to merge these genres, but others got confused trying to slot his spoken word into the "hip hop" category. Is P-Control hip hop? Not really... But that doesn't mean it's a failed attempt - it's a great song in it's own right that follows a parallel tradition which also spawned hip hop.

I think the writer of this article makes an interesting point by bringing up new roots-inspired artists like Erykah, Outkast and, yes, the Roots. But I think that she misses another important point - these artists, in a way, validate what P was often (not always successfully) trying to do - use rap in a different way, linked with live instruments.

PS - Just listened to United States of Division - Seems like he hasn't eschewed rap altogether (at least not the spoken word-funk variety I was talkin' about).

USD edit.
[This message was edited Wed Jul 21 5:45:10 2004 by wasitgood4u]

Heck...Prince is a better rapper than Tony Mosely will ever be. I have a German concert on VHS and Tony litterally screams therap on "Daddy Pop" to where if you didn't know the lyrics, you would not understand one word of it.

Best thing I can say about Tony Mosely is that he was better than T.C. Ellis

I've got to agree that this is probably the best thought out, most insightful article I've seen in some time, but... (there's always a but, isn't there?)... I think she (the writer) kind of missed the point of "Musicology". Rapping to a record isn't creating music. Prince is promoting the idea of "real music performed by real musicians". Who wants to hear someone speak/sing to a record? That's what radio is for (which, BTW, I think radio sucks).

I love this album. I don't think it's the best P has ever put out, but it's pretty damn good. Rather than looking at this as him copping out of a competition with today's hip hop machine, I see it as P leading the way back to REAL music. I think we're going to see more of an influx of this type of music as we progress through the 21st century. P is a leader, not a follower. He is leading the music scene back where it should be. Good for him!

Prince gave props to Jam Master Jay and Chuck D in the title track...so what the hell is this critic talking about?

While I did find this an interesting, well thought-out article, I don't agree that its "spot on". I mainly take issue with the author assuming that P was attacking hip-hop. The quote that this flimsy argument rests on is, in my opinion, completely misunderstood. Prince is being critical of almost all modern music. Yes, he is making a case for a live band versus the sample and scratch DJ technique, make no doubt. BUT, he goes on to elaborate that he feels this way because so few get it right. This is why he name checks Chuck D and Jam Master J, two artists who pushed the envelop with this technique. Its fairly obvious that P is trying to point out that few of todays acts can pull off what these two masters did, so they need to instead get back to making music with actual instruments. Much of the title track is about how artists "back in the day" made real music that pushed boundries. They learned their craft, and used it to full effect. They didn't rely on computers and samples of other people's work. This winds up being a dig at the majority of modern pop, not just hip-hop. Think about it, the title is "Musicology": the study of music. THAT is what Prince is trying to say to the young acts appearing on the scene today- that they need to study and learn their music. He is taking the role of mentor to those that have been influenced by him, plain and simple.

No, no, as I say, Prince likes hip hop, but he pretends not too, because he is angry that it is innovative, and his music isn't any more. He wants to write great hip hop, but knows it isn't in him.

I love your Ann Coulter avatar! That really made me laugh 2freaky4church1

2freaky4church1 said:

What a load... Prince CAN rap... when he tries. The rappin on Pussy Control, Sexy MF, and Why Shoudl I do That... are all better than the majority of the hip-hop crap teenagers are buying today!

And Rainbow Children a "a messy, inscrutable theme album about his Jehovah's Witness faith"?

C'mon! That album is about a lot of things... but not about the JW Faith. The JW Faith shapes and colours a lot of the things he says there but its not about it per se... and by saying that she makes it sound like its no good. Something I'd disagree with whole-heartedly! So many of these critics band-wagon when it comes to reviews. Just cause the album came and went without many sales doesn't mean it wasn't Prince at top-notch form.