Printable UsexyMF said: Interesting..."Rise & Fall"?? By whos standards? Sounds like another case of someone not respecting or understanding a persons journey or what he chooses in life.
I think by 'rise and fall' they are referring to the fact that he was a huge star, with millions of fans and critical acclaim and that he then commited one of the most spectacular career suicides in the history of popular entertainment, and ended up being considered a joke. I'm a huge Prince fan and tottaly admire what he has done but it doesn't change the facts or the English language. And I imagine that this book was written before the whole RC revival. So,at the time of writing his last two albums were NPS and Rave - flops both of them and crap to boot. That would be the 'fall' then. I imagine you can work out the 'rise' for yourself. | |
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[Flame deleted.--Matt] PRINCE HAS NOT FALLEN AND HE NEVER WILL HE IS THE GREATEST!ALEX IS TRYING 2 BRING PRINCE DOWN BUT HE WILL ONLY FALL HIMSELF BY TRYING 2 BRING THE GREATES DOWN ! [This message was edited Sun Jan 12 14:52:50 PST 2003 by matt] | |
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matt said: (The following was sent to me by Alex Hahn, who requested that we post it.)
A Statement from the Author of Possessed: The Rise and Fall of Prince As was recently posted on prince.org, I am the author of Possessed: the Rise and Fall of Prince, which will be released this April by Billboard Books/Watson-Guptill Publications. In light of some of the comments posted on prince.org about the book, I wanted to clarify some points about Possessed. I’m sorry that some got the impression, based on the information posted about the book, that it will be a tabloid-ish, anti-Prince book. Possessed is a serious, honest, solidly reported biography. True enough, those expecting a fawning, feel-good account of Prince’s life and music will be disappointed. But so will anyone expecting an attack or a lurid expose. Per Nilsen, the author of DanceMusicSexRomance – Prince: the First Decade, and the editor-in-chief of Uptown Magazine, has been involved in Possessed from the very beginning. He provided research for the project, including interview material that wasn’t appropriate for presentation in his earlier projects. He was involved with the planning of the book and has been a source of advice throughout. While I don’t want to claim that Per specifically agrees with every conclusion in Possessed, I can fairly say that his analysis and perspectives on Prince’s work have informed my own conclusions. Possessed is certainly a different type of book than DanceMusicSexRomance, but in some respects I have tried to essentially pick up where Per left off (Possessed covers both the earlier years that Per addressed in his book and also the 1988-2002 period). Like any serious biography, Possessed addresses myriad aspects of Prince’s life and character. Those who are interested only in the minutia of musical sessions may not like everything in the book (although they probably will find the appendix of Possessed, which contains an extensive discography, invaluable). But those who are interested in understanding Prince as a person, and learning more about the interplay between his life and his art, should find much of interest, including much that has never been revealed before. It’s a penetrating account, one that does not shy away from assessing the many contradictions in Prince’s character. But it’s also a celebration of his creativity and his incredible drive. In short, it’s a complete portrait of a brilliant, extremely complex person. While I am happy to let others judge this book, I believe it conveys fully my genuine passion and love for Prince’s music. I wrote the book not to savage him, but to understand him better. The title of the book, I believe, merely reflects a basic fact: Prince’s work during the 1990s (and, arguably, the first part of the new decade) does not match that of his earlier work. Once a pop pioneer and cultural revolutionary, Prince has over the years morphed into an often preachy and moralistic figure who, from a musical standpoint borrows (for example, from rap in the early 1990s and today from jazz) far more than he influences. Possessed investigates why this has occurred. I think that even those who disagree with my conclusions will find that they are fairly supported, and that competing viewpoints are aired throughout the book. Like any professional journalist, I weighed carefully what I was told by people I interviewed. I tried to assess who had an axe to grind, and who was simply relaying the facts as they saw them. Many of the former and present Prince associates I spoke with had a perspective similar to that of many fans: they continue to respect and even revere Prince, but they raised reasonable questions both about some of his musical directions and also his seemingly insatiable appetite for control and power. At the end of the day, I don’t consider myself a disgruntled fan. I’m simply someone who thinks a lot about Prince and the fascinating musical and personal journey he’s been on for the past several decades. Possessed is the product of that reflection – and a lot of hard work. I intended nothing less than a clear-eyed, fair-minded evaluation of Prince’s amazing career, and once people actually read the book, I hope they will conclude I did a decent job. Alex Hahn January 10, 2003 Fam. | |
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Here's my two cents:
Who will profit from the sale of this book? -Alex Hahn will profit from the actions and decisions Prince has made in his life. Is this right? The book's title is, in my opinion, incorrect. Prince's life and story aren't even at the half way mark! (I'll be sitting in the front row when I'm ninety) In my opinion there is no such thing as objective journalism. Every person interprets the world around them with their own biases, beliefs and AGENDAS. Second hand information is dangerous. I'd rather hear it from 'the horses mouth'. I won't read this book because it discusses personal aspects of Prince's life. I would rather read a book about Prince's music: Musical structure, harmony, composition etc. Has anyone written one? Everyone knows great artists are sometimes difficult people to deal with. They are commited, perfectionists who have trouble understanding why others aren't as commited and driven as they are. Back to the profit thing. This is what bothers me about unauthorized biographies and why I've never read one. Now, Alex Hahn is free to do what ever he wants, but I challenge him to donate all the profits from his book to charity. | |
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kimmydee said: Here's my two cents:
Who will profit from the sale of this book? -Alex Hahn will profit from the actions and decisions Prince has made in his life. Is this right? So? ...does the fact this book is on sale change anything?, Prince puts a product on the market for us to purchase. Why should it be anything different for others?, why is it with these fams that it's one rule for Prince and another rule for everyone else. The book's title is, in my opinion, incorrect. Prince's life and story aren't even at the half way mark! (I'll be sitting in the front row when I'm ninety) The title reflects the held and shared opinion of many people, from fans to journalists, musicians, record industry and all sorts of benchmarks. I think even Prince has conceeded on occasions that his career is not and never will be the same again, he constantly does things to sabotage what is left of his career. He does things to upset and enrage his fanbase which has forced many fans to simply quit...and please don't anyone deny this one simple fact...as it is the truth and everyone with a brain knows it. In my opinion there is no such thing as objective journalism. Every person interprets the world around them with their own biases, beliefs and AGENDAS. And that rule also applies to Prince himself, why is it people will happily accept the words from Prince's mouth over those of close associates and musicians? Is Prince not capable of telling a lie? ...he does it all the time, he lied to NPGMC members about what would be part of the 2002 CONtract with club members. No one is above telling a lie and twisting the truth to suit one's agenda or mood on a specific day, moreso Prince. His version of "the truth" is highly questionable and with his personality as it is...i don't even belive Prince himself knows the truth anymore. He has morphed and changed that many times it all becomes a blur...his personality is one that has an idea one day and it's gone the next. The truth as he would see it, if he decided to speak, would no doubt reflect this same personality trait. Second hand information is dangerous. I'd rather hear it from 'the horses mouth'. Again this is also an assumption that Prince would tell the truth, this is not the case. Prince is a control freak through and through, he has people sign legal documents for confidentiality agreements, his world is surrounded by secrecy and mystery. His very nature is one that tries to keep people guessing and to draw us in to take more notice of him, he does things to provoke a reaction from fans so as we get talking about him again...these are facts. Thus anything said or coming from the mouth of Prince would also be subject to the same journalistic instincts and weighting up the balance of truth. I won't read this book because it discusses personal aspects of Prince's life. Prince is a public person and any celebrity will tell you that people want to know every aspect of their private lives, why should Prince be treated any different? If you put yourself into the public domain then you are subject to the kinda of things that happens to celebrities...no it isin't right and i also hate the media for what they do...yet, it is the REALITY of what society we live in. Thus is you want to void such intrustion you can either live with it or remove yourself from public life...you can't have it both ways. Prince tries to but it just dosen't work. Everyone knows great artists are sometimes difficult people to deal with. They are commited, perfectionists who have trouble understanding why others aren't as commited and driven as they are. The problems with Prince's personality are more fundemental then that, as many people whom have worked with him have attested to..it's just an excuse to say "he's an artist" and that makes everything ok. People have spoken about being adults and taking responsibility. Why not apply the same rules to Prince for his actions and personality?...why should fans treat him differently just because he's an artist? Many times fans worship Prince as some god who can do no wrong in their eyes, but the reality is that he is just a person and should be judged by the same standards as the rest of us. Back to the profit thing. This is what bothers me about unauthorized biographies and why I've never read one. Now, Alex Hahn is free to do what ever he wants, but I challenge him to donate all the profits from his book to charity. Why should he? ...does Prince donate all his earnings from record sales, music club and concerts to charity? And don't give me that L$OA rubbish...no such charity exists or is registered in the u.s. Ask Prince to donate his profits from ONA to charity and see the response, or lack thereof. Alex has produced a product for whomever chooses to purchase it, the very same as Prince does. He should be allowed to sell that product and not tolerate such utter rubbish and childish statements as we have read the last few days. "Waiting to be banned" | |
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7IS4ME said: alex hahn fucking sucks.PRINCE HAS NOT FALLEN AND HE NEVER WILL HE IS THE GREATEST!ALEX IS TRYING 2 BRING PRINCE DOWN BUT HE WILL ONLY FALL HIMSELF BY TRYING 2 BRING THE GREATES DOWN !
- Hmm...typical ´fam´comment. Personally, I believe no book is 100% accurate unless it´s an autobiography, like Miles Davis did. Anyway, it must have some interesting points. I admit I am curious to read this, but it will not affect the opinion I have about his music. Sometimes I get tired of this ´Prince used to be great´ blah, blah, blah because I enjoyed most albums he released after the 80s. But on the other hand, it´s hard to understand how such a visionary and innovator artist lost most of the edge he had. But it didnt happen only to him. Other innovators went through this too, and I wouldnt be surprised if Jimi Hendrix lost it if he was alive too. Let´s wait for the next albums and see...  (Wendy said she believed his best work was yet to come) |
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liberation said: Why should he? ...does Prince donate all his earnings from record sales, music club and concerts to charity? And don't give me that L$OA rubbish...no such charity exists or is registered in the u.s. Ask Prince to donate his profits from ONA to charity and see the response, or lack thereof. Alex has produced a product for whomever chooses to purchase it, the very same as Prince does. He should be allowed to sell that product and not tolerate such utter rubbish and childish statements as we have read the last few days. - I agree with you. Hahn will release the book. For people who dont want to buy it, simply dont buy it. The same thing for Prince´s CDs. |
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liberation said: but the reality is that he is just a person and should be judged by the same standards as the rest of us.
Who will be doing the judging? Are you upset at Prince for who he is? Would you like him to become someone else? | |
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GustavoRibas said: liberation said: Why should he? ...does Prince donate all his earnings from record sales, music club and concerts to charity? And don't give me that L$OA rubbish...no such charity exists or is registered in the u.s. Ask Prince to donate his profits from ONA to charity and see the response, or lack thereof. Alex has produced a product for whomever chooses to purchase it, the very same as Prince does. He should be allowed to sell that product and not tolerate such utter rubbish and childish statements as we have read the last few days. - I agree with you. Hahn will release the book. For people who dont want to buy it, simply dont buy it. The same thing for Prince´s CDs. So only buy it and read it if you agree with him? 
Typical "naysayer" comment -- hates criticism of their hero. 
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GustavoRibas said: laurarichardson said: This is not a fact> This is your opinion. I like some of the stuff put out in the 90's . A lot of people on this board like some of the stuff he put out in the 90's. It appears that the more he fought wiht WB the funkier the music. However, WB did not promote any of that funky music. I hope your book is going to show the rotten and corrupt said of the music industry while you are so busy trashing the one artist who had the balls to take his issue public. - Laura, first let me say I loved what I heard of ONA. It´s great to see Prince putting the music in the first place, instead of choreographies, rappers, etc. But I have to agree with this sentence "from a musical standpoint borrows (for example, from rap in the early 1990s and today from jazz) far more than he influences." ...as much as I LOVE the NPG95 and still miss them (and I dont like the Revolution as a band), I have to admit that his work on the 80s was much more innovative. In the 90s, he started to become a trend-follower. Of course, he used hip-hop his way, but he was borrowing too much of it, instead of creating a new sound. He was so creative in the 80s that even inspired artists from the jazz field like Miles, Hancock and Joshua Redman. On the other hand, it´s good to see that he seems to be happy with the new band, the concerts, etc. I dont agree with the term ´Fall´...he is only changing. I will always hope that he surprises us with his next studio album. --- Well, I think I lot people do not understand the corporate change WB went under in the 90's. After the UTCM diaster Prince was not the goldenboy anymore and he needed to sell some records. I think he was struggling with staying innovative and still being productive sales wise. | |
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matt said: (The following was sent to me by Alex Hahn, who requested that we post it.)
A Statement from the Author of Possessed: The Rise and Fall of Prince As was recently posted on prince.org, I am the author of Possessed: the Rise and Fall of Prince, which will be released this April by Billboard Books/Watson-Guptill Publications. In light of some of the comments posted on prince.org about the book, I wanted to clarify some points about Possessed. I’m sorry that some got the impression, based on the information posted about the book, that it will be a tabloid-ish, anti-Prince book. Possessed is a serious, honest, solidly reported biography. True enough, those expecting a fawning, feel-good account of Prince’s life and music will be disappointed. But so will anyone expecting an attack or a lurid expose. Per Nilsen, the author of DanceMusicSexRomance – Prince: the First Decade, and the editor-in-chief of Uptown Magazine, has been involved in Possessed from the very beginning. He provided research for the project, including interview material that wasn’t appropriate for presentation in his earlier projects. He was involved with the planning of the book and has been a source of advice throughout. While I don’t want to claim that Per specifically agrees with every conclusion in Possessed, I can fairly say that his analysis and perspectives on Prince’s work have informed my own conclusions. Possessed is certainly a different type of book than DanceMusicSexRomance, but in some respects I have tried to essentially pick up where Per left off (Possessed covers both the earlier years that Per addressed in his book and also the 1988-2002 period). Like any serious biography, Possessed addresses myriad aspects of Prince’s life and character. Those who are interested only in the minutia of musical sessions may not like everything in the book (although they probably will find the appendix of Possessed, which contains an extensive discography, invaluable). But those who are interested in understanding Prince as a person, and learning more about the interplay between his life and his art, should find much of interest, including much that has never been revealed before. It’s a penetrating account, one that does not shy away from assessing the many contradictions in Prince’s character. But it’s also a celebration of his creativity and his incredible drive. In short, it’s a complete portrait of a brilliant, extremely complex person. While I am happy to let others judge this book, I believe it conveys fully my genuine passion and love for Prince’s music. I wrote the book not to savage him, but to understand him better. The title of the book, I believe, merely reflects a basic fact: Prince’s work during the 1990s (and, arguably, the first part of the new decade) does not match that of his earlier work. Once a pop pioneer and cultural revolutionary, Prince has over the years morphed into an often preachy and moralistic figure who, from a musical standpoint borrows (for example, from rap in the early 1990s and today from jazz) far more than he influences. Possessed investigates why this has occurred. I think that even those who disagree with my conclusions will find that they are fairly supported, and that competing viewpoints are aired throughout the book. Like any professional journalist, I weighed carefully what I was told by people I interviewed. I tried to assess who had an axe to grind, and who was simply relaying the facts as they saw them. Many of the former and present Prince associates I spoke with had a perspective similar to that of many fans: they continue to respect and even revere Prince, but they raised reasonable questions both about some of his musical directions and also his seemingly insatiable appetite for control and power. At the end of the day, I don’t consider myself a disgruntled fan. I’m simply someone who thinks a lot about Prince and the fascinating musical and personal journey he’s been on for the past several decades. Possessed is the product of that reflection – and a lot of hard work. I intended nothing less than a clear-eyed, fair-minded evaluation of Prince’s amazing career, and once people actually read the book, I hope they will conclude I did a decent job. Alex Hahn January 10, 2003 ***I can respect that & will even pick up the book. After reading that, it indeed sounds like a solid read...But like I said Prince sets his own direction & standard. I love the fact that he changed up from his 80's music 2 do something nobody really seen coming. The greatest artist in music or in any other form all took chances & did things that nobody understood..things that even looked ill fated at times. But theres a unseen dark magic at work and a growth that maybe the artist only feels & relates 2. So a fall in terms of "what was"... he's not trying 2 "match" past sucess. He was of the understanding that nothing stays at the peak with fans and media anywayz. So the many different trails he took was his musical trip of the spirit & mind...Its a much higher calling then being untrue 2 yourself & making pop hits 4 reasons U don't truly connect with. He was wise enough 2 know he would lose alot of support going the directions he ended up going (& still did it) It's just "my" opinion that from seeing him live the last 3 decades many times & studying the tons of concert videos, records/cds, he's on a steady "personal rise" that can't B touched...by people who don't relate 2 his re-birth of his soul & flesh. I may not like alot of what he's talking about sometimes, and B down with his JW vibe...But I do respect & admire his ever changing quest 2 create music from the most honest place within himself. Besides being the greatest live performer/singer/musician on this planet... when U got it like that death itself can't make U fall~ | |
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2the9s said: So only buy it and read it if you agree with him?
Typical "naysayer" comment -- hates criticism of their hero.
- What I meant is...Hahn makes profit out of the book the same way Prince does from his music. They are considered ´products´ in this capitalist world. If you dont want Hahn to earn money, simply boycott it. ´Naysayer´, as far as I know, usually LOVE to criticize the ´hero´...at least here at the org.. |
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laurarichardson said: Well, I think I lot people do not understand the corporate change WB went under in the 90's. After the UTCM diaster Prince was not the goldenboy anymore and he needed to sell some records. I think he was struggling with staying innovative and still being productive sales wise.
- Very true...it was much more comfortable for him to try to innovate when everybody bought everything that he released. Even in the 90s he released some non-commercial stuff, like most of ´Come´ album, but it doesnt mean it was innovative. Must be a real hard situation for him. And it will be a forever struggle, because now that he is independent, he teorically would take less risks. Let´s wait and see |
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Rise and FALL...God it sounds like a book about someone who is dead! As though he no longer exists!
Why in the world is a lawyer who was at one time at odds with Prince writing about his life??? Can Mr. Alex Hahn be 100% objective? If Prince does not endorse this then Mr. Hahn is NO KIND OF FAN! Period. | |
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NuPwrSoul said: Title alone suggests a pessimistic tone and interpretation of Prince's life. A Prince.org user by the name of AlexHahn was in the chat room Friday evening and confirmed that his book ends on an ambiguous if not pessimistic note... that Prince's best times are behind him when he worked with creative people like Wendy and Lisa, and that the book's title was chosen for it's provocative nature.
Of course, if Prince has indeed fallen, then why write a book about someone who is no longer relevant? Who invests publishing pages and promotions on an irrelevant person? That's because he's quite relevant. Maybe not to the masses but to a good number of people. Back to the title and tone, anything it says is going to be highly speculative especially if you are doing it through second hand and third hand information. If someone wrote a book about any of us today, would they capture all we are supposed to be? Have you accomplished all you want to in life? Or is there more. I think to title the book the "rise and fall" of anyone sets a pessimistic tone and direction for how one is seeing someone's life. Like the best is behind you. There's nothing to look forward to. That's what I object to. Because if anyone I know ever said that about me or any of my friends, I would find it extremely hurtful. And that's what I was reacting to. Yeah Prince has done a lot of things that people can find objectionable. But at the end of the day, he is a man just like we are human. And I think just as I would not want someone evaluating my life and telling me that it's all downhill from here... I would not want that for Prince, you, or anyone in my life. The most appropriate time to determine whether or not someone's better days are behind them, is when they have no more days left, i.e., death. Otherwise as long as Prince breathes, or me, or you or anyone else, we have absolutely NO WAY to tell what the future holds for anyone. And pronouncing someone as fallen is like a curse, in my opinion. Fantastic! Well said! | |
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laurarichardson said: Are we all supposed to feel sad because Alex did not make any money?
Whoa there. First, I never suggested that we should "feel sad" for Alex. Second, billables and making money from a case are two entirely different things. As a general rule, while associates are expected to bill X number of hours per year, associates do not share in the profits and losses of a law firm, because they have no ownership interest in the firm. Instead, they're employees and are paid a set salary, with maybe some kind of bonus. That's why they're "associates"--at some point (often after seven years of practicing law), an associate will usually be considered for promotion to partner/shareholder (i.e., owner in the firm). Even if Alex's firm had taken the case under a hourly fee agreement, Alex probably wouldn't have "made any money off it." (I say "probably," because I have no firsthand knowledge of how Hanify & King (his law firm at the time) operates, but this kind of stuff is pretty much standard throughout the industry.) As an associate in the firm where I work, I certainly don't "make money off cases" (directly, anyway). My (oral)employment contract basically involves me working X number of billable hours in exchange for a set salary of X dollars, plus benefits and a non-guaranteed bonus. (The bonus is determined by the firm's shareholders, and is pretty much based upon how many hours I've billed and how "good," from an economic standpoint, the past year has been for the firm.) I'm certainly not asking anyone to feel sorry for me. I made the choice to join an established law firm as an associate, even though I certainly had the option of "hanging out my shingle" and opening my own law practice the day I got sworn in, Indeed, I think my current situation is a good one for me--I don't have to worry about finding clients (although I have brought a few to the firm), they give me various resources (e.g., a secretary, photocopiers, computer resources, and access to the firm's law library and the Westlaw online legal reseach service), they give me benefits (e.g., health and dental insurance), and they pay for things like my bar association dues and my legal malpractice insurance. I'm happy with the deal I have, especially in this lousy job market for new lawyers. He decided to take the case no one forced him to do so. He made a decision to not get "billables credit for it.
Non sequitur. I'm sorry, but your reasoning isn't valid. A sacrifice was made, regardless of whether Alex chose to take the case pro bono or not. In this era of coporate greed I am a little surprised that you expect anyone to feel sorry for this guy. Corporate greed? You've got to be kidding me. Alex wasn't working for Enron or anything. Do you have any idea of what it costs to run a law practice, especially if you want a "professional" appearance? There's rent or mortgage payments on your office space, the salaries of support staff (my understanding is that support staff generally do not bill clients for their time--they don't at our firm, anyway), malpractice insurance, the cost of maintaining a law library and keeping it updated, and/or getting a subscription to the Westlaw or Lexis online legal research systems, the time that gets written off when lawyers spend several hours investigating a potential case and then discovering it's a turkey, having letterhead and business cards printed, etc. It would be better if he spent time helping some poor person get off of death row or fight a wrongful conviction. First, you're comparing apples and oranges. Have you read the Answer with Counterclaims that Uptown filed? Their first counterclaim, malicious abuse of process, alleges that Prince misused the legal system for the purpose of "suppressing Uptown's speech and operations and forcing Uptown out of business" and "securing a monopoly" for himself and his businesses. I consider that to be a very serious allegation, but something entirely different from helping someone secure post-conviction rellief. Second, if you think that post-conviction relief cases are much more important than what Alex was doing, well, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But my philosophy on pro bono work is that lawyers should use their passions in deciding what to accept pro bono. I don't know about all of Alex's passions, or what other cases he has done pro bono, but my passions do not involve post-conviction relief cases. (Don't get me wrong--I think it's a serious problem that some people wind up behind bars, and sometimes on death row, despite their innocence.) And in any event, my firm generally does not handle criminal matters at all--we're a civil litigation firm. Alex should be commended for defending Uptown pro bono. Do you do your job for free? Well, I'd probably better end this post here. Let me just finish with this thought: one of the great things about the United States of America is the freedom of speech. Indeed, people in this country are free to offer our opinions on things, even when we don't fully understand the facts behind those opinions. And I don't mean to be disrespectful, but from the tenor of your posts, I assume that you don't know much at all about the practice of law. (Disclaimer: This post represents my views only and is not posted in my capacity as an associate in the law firm where I work.) Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position. |
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moderatorToo bad everything biographical seems to be connected with Uptown. So we learn Per approves of the conclusions of Alex Hahn. To me, that just makes the book less interesting and so much more predictable. Doesn't sound like much of a fresh look.
The "fall" of Prince is only unmistakable commercially. Artistically, you can't deny that his influence on music does not come from his latest output. Besides the fact that goes hand in hand with his lack of exposure, does that mean the music itself is no longer worthy? Please compare Prince and Aretha Franklin. Is anyone saying : The Rise and Fall of Aretha Franklin? She has influenced generations of vocalists, and what hits did she had lately? Is her new music influential? No. Prince's isn't either... but Arethat "fell" in the mid-70's and came back in the mid-eighties, only to go back into modestly successful albums, if that. She's still around, still respected... not as vital, yes, but no one is being judgmental about it. I think Prince has ample time to "rise" the way some want him to. So I won't be awaiting this book with great anticipation. [This message was edited Sun Jan 12 17:46:12 PST 2003 by Aerogram] | |
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"Fall"? From where? | |
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Berry said: Rise and FALL...God it sounds like a book about someone who is dead! As though he no longer exists!
Why in the world is a lawyer who was at one time at odds with Prince writing about his life??? Can Mr. Alex Hahn be 100% objective? Hell no he can't...but I'm going to buy it anyway. | |
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BanishedBrian said: misschestylarue said: yeah but we have not heard princes side of the story. We have all heard from ex-bandmates or ex-girlfriends, but in many of
these cases prince has remained silent. The fact that Prince remains silent in the face of what his ex- employees, girlfriends and bandmates say is a pretty good indication IMHO that these people's interviews are generally accurate. The consistency amongst many of their accounts corroborate their truthfulness IMHO. oh PUHLEEZE, if Prince wasted his time answering every single damned accusation people made against him, he wouldn't have time to do anything else... | |
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kimmydee said: liberation said: but the reality is that he is just a person and should be judged by the same standards as the rest of us.
Who will be doing the judging? We are all judged on a daily basis..society judges just on a wide range of things, Prince in his younger years had peers whom he admired and looked up to. We are all sheep and victims of society and the system in general, and most of it we don't even realise the fact we play into it each and everyday. Thus Prince will be judged by us as fans and by the public at large, as has always been the case. Are you upset at Prince for who he is? Would you like him to become someone else? Prince can be who he is and not be an ass all the time you know, if he choose to change his world view and look outside Paisley Park once in awhile maybe he'd be the better for it. 25 years locked in a studio and being isolated will have a negative impact on anyones personality and relationships with others. Thus if Prince wants to change he has to be willing...but he is too obtuse and set in his ways, and we've all tolerated and accepted this as Prince "being an artist". What nonsense. "Waiting to be banned" | |
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Berry said: Rise and FALL...God it sounds like a book about someone who is dead! As though he no longer exists!
Why in the world is a lawyer who was at one time at odds with Prince writing about his life??? Can Mr. Alex Hahn be 100% objective? Can anyone be objective? ...can Prince even be considered objective?, you think Prince and relay the truth...the real truth?, or just HIS version of the truth. A sign of a good journalist is one who takes many POV and tries to weed out the BS from the facts, and then put down on paper on the basis of balance a version of truth. If Prince does not endorse this then Mr. Hahn is NO KIND OF FAN! Period. Trust me...Alex is more of a fan then most so called "fans", a fan is not someone who will worship their hero and will never see the failings in him, and fan is someone who contributes things and adds to a community. Alex is one such person...but you guys are that clueless you'll never get past a title of a book. "Waiting to be banned" | |
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liberation said:[quote] kimmydee said: liberation said: We are all judged on a daily basis..society judges just on a wide range of things, Prince in his younger years had peers whom he admired and looked up to. We are all sheep and victims of society and the system in general, and most of it we don't even realise the fact we play into it each and everyday. Thus Prince will be judged by us as fans and by the public at large, as has always been the case. Prince can be who he is and not be an ass all the time you know, if he choose to change his world view and look outside Paisley Park once in awhile maybe he'd be the better for it. 25 years locked in a studio and being isolated will have a negative impact on anyones personality and relationships with others. Thus if Prince wants to change he has to be willing...but he is too obtuse and set in his ways, and we've all tolerated and accepted this as Prince "being an artist". What nonsense. I don't like words like 'should', 'judged', 'sheep' and 'victim'! Since, I don't pay any attention to what anyone thinks of me, I am free (well freer that anyone who concerns themselves with how others see them). I certainly don't feel like a victim of 'society'-whatever that is. I'm not saying I condone peoples flaws of character, just that I have a high tolerance for allowing, accepting, and non-judgment. I respect every persons path, their journey to higher understanding and the TIME it takes for them to get there. I wouldn't call working with all those artists isolated. I can't form an opinion of Prince's character since I've never met him. To rely on information printed in books or statements from others is to form a lop-sided view and is unfair. I accept but I don't understand why Hahn, 'a fan' of Prince would include aspects of Prince's personal life in his book when he is probably well aware of Prince's desire for his private life to be just that, private, other than to get more sales. If Hahn had omitted those details I would have considered reading the book. It would have shown that he respects another persons wishes. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. | |
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Liberation:
A good journalist would have the blessing from his subject. A good fan would have had a more suitable title...something that reflected some form of respect. | |
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Let´s wait and see...it must have some interesting points, and some absurd ones. Too bad Prince himself doesnt write a book (although he says he does it with his lyrics) |
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kimmydee said: Here's my two cents:
Who will profit from the sale of this book? -Alex Hahn will profit from the actions and decisions Prince has made in his life. Is this right? It's absurd  so, if I write a book about let's say the 3rd Reich, I would profit from the nazi's actions ? | |
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kimmydee said:[quote]liberation said:[quote] kimmydee said: liberation said: Thus if Prince wants to change he has to be willing...but he is too obtuse and set in his ways, and we've all tolerated and accepted this as Prince "being an artist". What nonsense. I don't like words like 'should', 'judged', 'sheep' and 'victim'! Since, I don't pay any attention to what anyone thinks of me, I am free (well freer that anyone who concerns themselves with how others see them). I certainly don't feel like a victim of 'society'-whatever that is. I'm not saying I condone peoples flaws of character, just that I have a high tolerance for allowing, accepting, and non-judgment. I respect every persons path, their journey to higher understanding and the TIME it takes for them to get there. I said that people don't even realise they are sheep and being controled or influnced by society, it's all inbuilt into one's mind and has been beaten into them since birth. I wouldn't call working with all those artists isolated. Isolated from the real world, from real people, from everyday life...his life is like a blanket, always there to sheild him from the reality outside. I can't form an opinion of Prince's character since I've never met him. To rely on information printed in books or statements from others is to form a lop-sided view and is unfair. You can't have an informed opinion on Prince as he will not ALLOW a formed opinon to be made, he does not interact with normal people. Thus it is impossible to make a truely accurate assement of Prince because he would never communicate his personality to any journalist to make a biography. Thus what else can you do BUT rely on people who HAVE worked with him and do know what his personality is like, don't you get it? I accept but I don't understand why Hahn, 'a fan' of Prince would include aspects of Prince's personal life in his book when he is probably well aware of Prince's desire for his private life to be just that, private, other than to get more sales. If Hahn had omitted those details I would have considered reading the book. It would have shown that he respects another persons wishes. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Prince has not communicated any such wish or lack thereof to Alex or anyone for that matter, again...Prince is in the public domain and so chooses to be. His private life is one such aspect of his public persona. You can't have your cake and eat it...this is about control to Prince, he wants to have everything done his way. Same as how he does not allow pictures to be taken of him. And the REAL reason is because he is not getting paid for those pictures, and why does he have security cameras turned off when playing aftershows?, because he fears CCTV footage would be leaked and sold on the black market. FACT. "Waiting to be banned" | |
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Berry said: Liberation:
A good journalist would have the blessing from his subject. Prince will never authorise a book by any journalist until he could have the final word on what made it to the final draft and the printers. Prince would edit and demand cuts to anything he didn't like, thus any journalist who cares about his craft and words he has written would never allow Prince to edit his text. The reality is again Prince wants control over everything and every aspect of his life...this is why Prince would never allow or give Alex his blessing. A good fan would have had a more suitable title...something that reflected some form of respect. A good fan and a good journalist would tell it how it is, not how Prince wants it to be, or the image he wants to project to others. "Waiting to be banned" | |
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Berry said: Liberation:
A good journalist would have the blessing from his subject. You're living in a dreamworld.There is a reason why these books are called "unauthorized biogrpahies".The journalist does not need the artists' support or permission.It's called FREEDOM OF SPEECH.I have have read many unauthorized books about various artists,and in many cases,they're much more interesting than an "official" account by the artist themselves. | |
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