Title alone suggests a pessimistic tone and interpretation of Prince's life. A Prince.org user by the name of AlexHahn was in the chat room Friday evening and confirmed that his book ends on an ambiguous if not pessimistic note... that Prince's best times are behind him when he worked with creative people like Wendy and Lisa, and that the book's title was chosen for it's provocative nature.

Of course, if Prince has indeed fallen, then why write a book about someone who is no longer relevant? Who invests publishing pages and promotions on an irrelevant person? That's because he's quite relevant. Maybe not to the masses but to a good number of people.

Back to the title and tone, anything it says is going to be highly speculative especially if you are doing it through second hand and third hand information. If someone wrote a book about any of us today, would they capture all we are supposed to be? Have you accomplished all you want to in life? Or is there more.

I think to title the book the "rise and fall" of anyone sets a pessimistic tone and direction for how one is seeing someone's life. Like the best is behind you. There's nothing to look forward to. That's what I object to. Because if anyone I know ever said that about me or any of my friends, I would find it extremely hurtful. And that's what I was reacting to.

Yeah Prince has done a lot of things that people can find objectionable. But at the end of the day, he is a man just like we are human. And I think just as I would not want someone evaluating my life and telling me that it's all downhill from here... I would not want that for Prince, you, or anyone in my life.

The most appropriate time to determine whether or not someone's better days are behind them, is when they have no more days left, i.e., death. Otherwise as long as Prince breathes, or me, or you or anyone else, we have absolutely NO WAY to tell what the future holds for anyone. And pronouncing someone as fallen is like a curse, in my opinion.

slm4m said:

This is not an attack on you, slm4m, but some of the responses in this thread are disturbing.

Alex and the firm where he worked represented Uptown pro bono (i.e., for free). Do you know how much legal services usually cost? I've been a lawyer for, oh, about two months now, and my firm already charges clients $125 per hour for my services. That number will go up over time as I gain more experience and (possibly) due to increases in our overhead and what the market will bear. And I practice in Indianapolis, where the cost of legal services is probably significantly lower than it is in, say, Chicago or New York City.

For those of you unfamiliar with the legal profession, "associates" (attorneys who are employees of a law firm rather than owners in it) are expected to work X number of "billable hours" per year. I am almost certan that Alex was an associate at the time he defended Uptown.

The policy at my firm is that pro bono hours are not billable--I get no credit for them--and my understanding is that most law firms have the same policy. Alex put in hundreds of hours on the case and probably got no "credit" from his firm (or anything else) for defending Uptown, other than the lifetime subscription the magazine gave him.

When the Uptown lawsuit was pending in court, I was preparing to start law school. Alex took time out of his busy schedule to chat with me and offer advice. Once the lawsuit settled (and I started law school), Alex would occasionally email me to see how I was doing and share his thoughts on the whole law school experience.

I know people love to slam lawyers (except their own, or when they need one), but before you dismiss Alex as a "creep" and "[n]ot a fan," follow Bart's suggestion and do a little research. In particular, read this statement from Alex:

http://www.uptown.se/2002...wyer.shtml

Yes. I'm biased.

Matt Conrad
Attorney at Law

(Disclaimer: This post represents my views only and is not posted in my capacity as an associate in the law firm where I work.)

matt said:

I got nothing but respect for what Alex Hahn did for Uptown in that ridiculous lawsuit brought on by Prince.

But what does that have to do with his ability to write a balanced book on Prince?

The release of "TRC", Prince's latest tour, and his latest box set are receiving some of the greatest critical acclaim of his career. Regardless of whether one agrees with this acclaim or not, to ignore it completely and only look for quotes that support your own view is a bias of the worst kind. But perhaps this is pointed out in the book? Or perhaps this book was written before Prince's latest career upturn and new-found respect as an artist? Hell, I don’t know, I haven't read the book yet. I hope it’s a great and fair book that shows all sides of this complicated artist; I truly do!

I just hope I'm dead wrong about its predictable content and salacious tendencies. I'm just not a fan of gossip. But I'd fight to my last breath to preserve the ability for people to write whatever it is they so choose.

Interesting..."Rise & Fall"?? By whos standards? Sounds like another case of someone not respecting or understanding a persons journey or what he chooses in life.

Most of you people who are already bashing this book should read it first before judging the entire book on a title and some info alone.

The only that gave a constructive, yet negative response was Nupowersoul. That I respect, but the rest of you just seem to overreact in a pathetic fashion buy already talking boycots and that somehow a writer is not allowed to speak of "the rise and fall of Prince".

Maybe you all need to wake up and realise that this could mean a whole lot more thatn what you are immediately assuming and perhabs even see that prince has indeed fallen in some ways. Instead of immediately coming up with destructyive criticism based on nothing but a title and without reading even one letter of this book.

-
[This message was edited Sat Jan 11 4:15:15 PST 2003 by Abrazo]

BartVanHemelen said:

Shame when everyone makes assumptions without knowing the facts first, ain't
one of them read a lick of the book. But of course with these guys
worshiping Prince as they do, how can any of them be objective?

No book will be 100% objective and a good journalist will weed out the BS
from the real truth, if there is such a thing as real truth...as it changes
from person to person and day to day.

The fact Alex Hahn defended UPTOWN in a lawsuit does not mean this will be a
bashfest and sticking the boot in Prince for past deeds done. Nor does the
title suggest anything without actually reading the book.

It's amazing to me how these guys can just defend and defend and yet they
will accept Prince's version of events, but when something contrary to that
belief is put forward they totally dismiss it as Tabloid journalism.

I say give Alex and the book a fair chance and stop sucking Prince's dick.

well,well, well, I was on the chat room when Alex Hahn was talking about his book, alot of peeps was getting upset, with what he was saying, and wanted his butt out of the chat room, there was at least 69 peeps in that chat room there may of been a clitzh. I agree with Liberation and Nupwrsoul, my advice, find it at the library, check it out if you do not like it, you did not lose anything, if you did like it, then go buy one for your self and put it up for safe keeping, no love loss. Alex did bash lisa and Wendy, and that is not nice,and I do agree that putting info about his child is not something that seems as if Alex really thought about how much it would hurt Prince in general, but, I could care less why Alex is Flaunting that he was talking to Cavilo,not sure if I spelled it right sorry, Alex was talking about him as if he was so great, and Alex said that when he was talking to Cavilo, Cavilo, told Alex to basicaly to F*** off. because Alex would not stop talking about the shelved Crystal Ball album, well thanks for reading, peace and be wild

liberation said:

Yeah but the point is that prince has never told his side of the story, but we have all before heard from ex-girlfriends and ex-bandmates. we can't begin to believe these people if we have not heard his side of the story. You know that there are always three sides to a story your side the other side and the truth, but on many of these account prince has stayed
silent. so why are so many people willing to believe when they say something about him when we really don't know any truth. I mean if someone asked a person that you are on bad terms with any thing about you do you think that the truth is
going to come out. I feel that we all should just chill out
and not try to jump the conclusions that we want to heard. because we are either a "fam" or and "naysayer".

liberation said:

yeah but we have not heard princes side of the story. We have all heard from ex-bandmates or ex-girlfriends, but in many of
these cases prince has remained silent. You know that there
is always three sides to the story your side there side and the truth. I'm sure if someone asked a friend that we are on bad terms with they will not hear a fair and accurate account of what went on between the two of you. I know that you will only heard there side of the story, and I am sure you will not get and good review. so we should all just chill out, and stop jump to conculsions. that goes for the "naysayers" and the "fams".

"The book also draws upon the hundreds of interviews given by Prince over the years. "

* this means I bet a TON of "filler"

but I will buy it, why not.. if I learn or hear something I didn't know..it will be interesting..

This guy sounds like a sensationalist. I saw Prince on the ONA tour in London and musically, he is incomparable at the moment. If this is indeed the time of his 'fall' then I say keep falling.

misschestylarue said:

The fact that Prince remains silent in the face of what his ex- employees, girlfriends and bandmates say is a pretty good indication IMHO that these people's interviews are generally accurate. The consistency amongst many of their accounts corroborate their truthfulness IMHO.

I thought The Rainbow Children lifted him right back up?? Who titled this book? And WHO FARTED???

.
[This message was edited Sat Jan 11 13:40:41 PST 2003 by CalhounSq]

Javed,

Love your post. I couldn't have put it any better myself. It never ceases to amaze me that no matter how much the man gives, people always want more - alot more!

Thanks for the eloquent verbage!

javed said:[quote]See now here's my problem, as much as i respect Barts factual contributions he and people like him who lets face it pretty much hate a lot about Prince as a person as well as his music, will see this as some sort of rubber stamp on their views. My thoughts are as follows,

1] In 2002 Prince had given us possibly his most personal
contact ever through sound checks , after shows and smaller gigs. If it cost a fortune for gig tickets so what , it was our choice if we wanted to pay it. The music at the gigs varied and the quality of the band this year has been great. Yet what thanks has he had from his hard core?, support for a book that i can assure you will be tabloid quality at best with quotes from pissed off ex associates who have gone on to do fuck all!, and a bunch of whiny little bitches who were upset about the unfairness of the music club - boo fucking hoo. This is Prince we are dealing with , you should know by now that business in the purple world runs on his terms so accept the deal or fuck off.
If i were Prince i would be banging my head against a wall thinking what more do i have to do to keep these people happy.

2] Last years music, tours etc which were applauded by the majority of fans were given against a backdrop of personal tradgedy for Prince, yet he still delivered more than he has ever done.

3] His personal life is his business , i'm here for the music. PLease accept that he is human, stunningly talented but human like you and me and therefore has personal failings. I would be a total hypocrit if i did not admit tobe facinated by his personal life but as i grow older and wiser i realise that it is not important. If YOU became famous imagine how much dirt can be exaggerated or made up about you.

Abrazo said:[quote]Most of you people who are already bashing this book should read it first before judging the entire book on a title and some info alone.

The only that gave a constructive, yet negative response was Nupowersoul. That I respect, but the rest of you just seem to overreact in a pathetic fashion buy already talking boycots and that somehow a writer is not allowed to speak of "the rise and fall of Prince".

Maybe you all need to wake up and realise that this could mean a whole lot more thatn what you are immediately assuming and perhabs even see that prince has indeed fallen in some ways. Instead of immediately coming up with destructyive criticism based on nothing but a title and without reading even one letter of this book.

-
***On my part I'm not bashing or overreacting...but asking a simple question, by whos standard? The title does speak of Prince like he's a after thought. Its funny how many in the media like 2 think his work these dayz doesn't amount 2 much. Cuz what he needs 2 B making the same music that made him a mega-star in the 80's? Well they say... he's no longer with a major label, his sells have dropped and he's become 2 preachy??? I could care less if his music goes 2 number 1# and sells 10 million everytime out etc...

If he's happy with the music he's making then he's still very much rising upward 2 a place of standard that has nothing 2 do with, if your number one on MTV's TRL. When U use the word "fall" as in this case its not a positive. I don't need 2 read it in depth 2 know what the title of the book is referring 2...This is my (opinion) dig?


He may B a good lawyer who's done his homework etc...But theres alot of us who feel Prince is far from fallen or lost the magic...But one can only shake the head at those who can't let a man do & be what he wants 2 B in respect 2 his music making.

Why should he fight tooth & nail 2 B apart of this pop scence if he ain't feelin it? Whatever happen 2 trying 2 understand & respect a true artist and visionary who wants 2 blaze new paths, all the while challenging himself and those who dare 2 hear?

matt said:

---

While you feel that Alex is a great guy for defending Uptown most of the fans on this site just see a book with a tabloid title and author with an ax to grind. To say that Prince has fallen is insane. He is riding a great high right now and when you consider all the tragdies that have occured in his life it is amazing. It really is not anyone's place to say someone has fallen. New Power Soul had it right people only fall when they die.

In addtion, Alex took this case pro bono because he wanted to no one placed a gun in his back. You make it sound as if some scarfice was made.

This type of sanctimonious bull is why people hate lawyers. He also seems like a nut ball fan who wants to tell Prince how to live his life and handle his business.
Failing to realize Prince is grown ass man who going to keep doing what he wants to do.
[This message was edited Sat Jan 11 16:50:18 PST 2003 by laurarichardson]

The rise and "fall".. hmmm..for falling, there sure does seem to be a lot of folks living vicariously through the feller..bootlegs, radio shows, ngs, websites, and now a lawyer of all people is writing a tome on Prince. I wish I could "fall" like dat . Some folks are comedy.

Brendan said:

Again, Alex has been smeared as a "creep" and accused of being "[n]ot a fan." Follow the the link I posted and read his statement dated July 30, 1999. Some who isn't a fan wouldn't have: 1) bought all of Prince's albums since Around the World in a Day on their release dates; 2) spent all night waiting in line for his concert tickets; and 3) continued to listen to his music even after he was representing Uptown against Prince and his companies.

I haven't read the manuscript of the book, so I don't know whether it's "balanced"--and I really don't care. I'm just peeved at these personal attacks on Alex.

(The following was sent to me by Alex Hahn, who requested that we post it.)

A Statement from the Author of Possessed: The Rise and Fall of Prince

As was recently posted on prince.org, I am the author of Possessed: the Rise and Fall of Prince, which will be released this April by Billboard Books/Watson-Guptill Publications. In light of some of the comments posted on prince.org about the book, I wanted to clarify some points about Possessed.

I’m sorry that some got the impression, based on the information posted about the book, that it will be a tabloid-ish, anti-Prince book. Possessed is a serious, honest, solidly reported biography. True enough, those expecting a fawning, feel-good account of Prince’s life and music will be disappointed. But so will anyone expecting an attack or a lurid expose.

Per Nilsen, the author of DanceMusicSexRomance – Prince: the First Decade, and the editor-in-chief of Uptown Magazine, has been involved in Possessed from the very beginning. He provided research for the project, including interview material that wasn’t appropriate for presentation in his earlier projects. He was involved with the planning of the book and has been a source of advice throughout. While I don’t want to claim that Per specifically agrees with every conclusion in Possessed, I can fairly say that his analysis and perspectives on Prince’s work have informed my own conclusions. Possessed is certainly a different type of book than DanceMusicSexRomance, but in some respects I have tried to essentially pick up where Per left off (Possessed covers both the earlier years that Per addressed in his book and also the 1988-2002 period).

Like any serious biography, Possessed addresses myriad aspects of Prince’s life and character. Those who are interested only in the minutia of musical sessions may not like everything in the book (although they probably will find the appendix of Possessed, which contains an extensive discography, invaluable). But those who are interested in understanding Prince as a person, and learning more about the interplay between his life and his art, should find much of interest, including much that has never been revealed before. It’s a penetrating account, one that does not shy away from assessing the many contradictions in Prince’s character. But it’s also a celebration of his creativity and his incredible drive. In short, it’s a complete portrait of a brilliant, extremely complex person.

While I am happy to let others judge this book, I believe it conveys fully my genuine passion and love for Prince’s music. I wrote the book not to savage him, but to understand him better. The title of the book, I believe, merely reflects a basic fact: Prince’s work during the 1990s (and, arguably, the first part of the new decade) does not match that of his earlier work. Once a pop pioneer and cultural revolutionary, Prince has over the years morphed into an often preachy and moralistic figure who, from a musical standpoint borrows (for example, from rap in the early 1990s and today from jazz) far more than he influences. Possessed investigates why this has occurred.

I think that even those who disagree with my conclusions will find that they are fairly supported, and that competing viewpoints are aired throughout the book. Like any professional journalist, I weighed carefully what I was told by people I interviewed. I tried to assess who had an axe to grind, and who was simply relaying the facts as they saw them. Many of the former and present Prince associates I spoke with had a perspective similar to that of many fans: they continue to respect and even revere Prince, but they raised reasonable questions both about some of his musical directions and also his seemingly insatiable appetite for control and power.

At the end of the day, I don’t consider myself a disgruntled fan. I’m simply someone who thinks a lot about Prince and the fascinating musical and personal journey he’s been on for the past several decades. Possessed is the product of that reflection – and a lot of hard work. I intended nothing less than a clear-eyed, fair-minded evaluation of Prince’s amazing career, and once people actually read the book, I hope they will conclude I did a decent job.

Alex Hahn
January 10, 2003

laurarichardson said:

Of course a sacrifice was made! He took on the case and got no "billables" credit for it, while still having to manage the rest of his caseload and (probably) meet a billables requirement. Furthermore, his firm expended resources on the case (e.g., photocopying and work by support staff), and they didn't get a dime in return.



(shrug) I really don't care if people hate lawyers. I knew full well that lawyers are unpopular when I made the decision to attend law school. And it's certainly nothing new--wasn't Shakespeare the one who wrote, "First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers"?

All I can say is that I don't let other people's opinions of lawyers as a whole affect my self-esteem, and I sleep well at night. I'm just tired of the smear campaign that's being conducted against Alex.

Brendan said:

That's a bunch of lies and BS, an you know it. Fact is that plenty of former associates have spoken out over the years, and that their stories are remarkably consistent even though many of them were part of Prince's entourage at different times. On the other hand there's Prince, a man who's lied even in liner notes and in credits (and I'm not talking about giving his father credit for writing some songs, I'm talking about him "forgetting" to credit Wendy & Lisa for their work on "Power Fantastic" and similar examples).

matt said:

now His Statement sounds exactly like the way I feel about His work nowadays.I think this Book Should be really interesting&On Point.

Alex

Hahn said:

Yay!

Alex

Hahn said:

Hear hear!

Alex

Hahn said:

Don't get your hopes up.

BartVanHemelen said:

---

If Wendy and Lisa were wronged by Prince. Why don't they sue him over the credits? Why did they continue to work for him as he apparently did this more than once?

I do not believe that Prince is some angel who has never done anything wrong in his life but, some of his associates come off as total idiots. At what point do you take responsbilty for your actions as adults. No one made these people work for Prince or put up with his crap. If they feel they have legal claims against him they should take legal action. The bitching and moaning ten years down the line just makes them look foolish.

_ Alex Why don't you represent all of the associates, ex-girlfriends and bandmates who have a beef with Prince.

_ Bart You can give Prince Org weekly updates on the case.

Don't you guys see how sad and pathetic you are.

matt said:

---
Of course a sacrifice was made! He took on the case and got no "billables" credit for it, while still having to manage the rest of his caseload and (probably) meet a billables requirement. Furthermore, his firm expended resources on the case (e.g., photocopying and work by support staff), and they didn't get a dime in return.
---
Are we all supposed to feel sad because Alex did not make any money? He decided to take the case no one forced him to do so. He made a decision to not get "billables credit for it. I am also sure that he will make up for that loss from the sales of his book. Therefore, I shed no tears for him.
In this era of coporate greed I am a little surprised that you expect anyone to feel sorry for this guy.

It would be better if he spent time helping some poor person get off of death row or fight a wrongful conviction.
[This message was edited Sat Jan 11 19:47:36 PST 2003 by laurarichardson]

BartVanHemelen said:

---Alex Hahn said:
---
The title of the book, I believe, merely reflects a basic fact: Prince’s work during the 1990s (and, arguably, the first part of the new decade) does not match that of his earlier work. Once a pop pioneer and cultural revolutionary, Prince has over the years morphed into an often preachy and moralistic figure who, from a musical standpoint borrows (for example, from rap in the early 1990s and today from jazz) far more than he influences.


This is not a fact> This is your opinion. I like some of the stuff put out in the 90's . A lot of people on this board like some of the stuff he put out in the 90's. It appears that the more he fought wiht WB the funkier the music. However, WB did not promote any of that funky music. I hope your book is going to show the rotten and corrupt said of the music industry while you are so busy trashing the one artist who had the balls to take his issue public.

laurarichardson said:

- Laura, first let me say I loved what I heard of ONA. It´s great to see Prince putting the music in the first place, instead of choreographies, rappers, etc.
But I have to agree with this sentence "from a musical standpoint borrows (for example, from rap in the early 1990s and today from jazz) far more than he influences."
...as much as I LOVE the NPG95 and still miss them (and I dont like the Revolution as a band), I have to admit that his work on the 80s was much more innovative. In the 90s, he started to become a trend-follower. Of course, he used hip-hop his way, but he was borrowing too much of it, instead of creating a new sound. He was so creative in the 80s that even inspired artists from the jazz field like Miles, Hancock and Joshua Redman.
On the other hand, it´s good to see that he seems to be happy with the new band, the concerts, etc. I dont agree with the term ´Fall´...he is only changing. I will always hope that he surprises us with his next studio album.

BartVanHemelen said:

I'm looking for truth and balance, regardless of whether that truth is extremely critical of Prince, extremely in praise of Prince, or anything in-between. I'm not sure what you are looking for, perhaps you could fill us all in. You can twist my words, but it won't change what I originally wrote.

Of course there have been many things that have come from associates that are truthful and very helpful in trying to figure out this complicated artist, just as there have been many things that are less than true.

I'll say it again, I hope this is a well-written, balanced book.

I know those book descriptions are seldom written by the author and are written to sell books, and that's why I still think it's possible that this could be a very good book and not the partly sensationalistic, partly gossip oriented book that the write-up suggests.

After this uproar perhaps Alex Hahn now knows at least one millionth of what it must be like to be a celebrity. Imagine having to write-up one of those statements to defend yourself every damn time someone says something untruthful about you? You couldn't keep up with the damage control if it was your full-time job and you never slept.

--
[This message was edited Sat Jan 11 23:53:37 PST 2003 by Brendan]

BanishedBrian said:

Do you really believe that? Maybe he is not read any of these things that they are saying about him, or maybe he just doesn't want to waste his time on them. Frankly I wouldn't.