wonder505 said:

Noodled24 said:

... Unless he's praising Prince in which case those same people will be all over him. Funny how he only gets criticized when he says something "fans" deem "negative".

THat's an overblown statement. Alan Leeds gets both praise and criticism for his statements. And you are being hypocritical. Why is it okay to criticize Prince but not okay to criticize Alan Leeds? Again, because Alan knew knew him 20 years ago means that he is without fault? So no one here can critique ANYTHING??? You can't have it both ways. If Prince was a free for all criticism you best believe that if his former associated artists makes a public statement that I disagree with you bet I'm going to call them out on it. But according to you, because Alan worked with him, we can't say anything...ever.

Thank you. Especially when he himself chooses to make unsolicited public statements. As far as I'm concerned, Leeds as well as all other associates are fair game regarding what they do and say. I don't get the whole picking and choosing of who can be criticized and who is put on a pedestal. There is way too much of that going on here.

Either everybody can be discussed or no one can. That would be the fair way of doing things.

babynoz said:

^^What I mean is quoting the entire comment. I wasn't trying to break it up because it's not necessary.

Bottom line, you seem to be in your feelings because contrary to the trend here, I don't give former associates biased comments as much weight as you'd like. I was simply making a general observation in my comment to Wonder505 that was not specifically directed to you. Next time I'll delete your portion to avoid confusion.

You have as much or as little information about Prince as you are entitled to have. Curiosity does not necessarily equate to being entitled to know anything more than you already do. Again, I do not automatically confer credibility on someone simply because they run their mouth the most.

Then give a specific example of something AL has said that lacks credibility?

Finally, whether deliberately or not, you completely missed the point regarding my friendship comment. My point is that just because some type of relationship existed many years ago does not automatically mean that person's opinion is credible or relevant over two decades later. Again, I consider the source and their agenda when judging the credibility of what is said no matter who is doing the talking, past or present.

Leeds has said some things I consider credible and some not. My point is that his importance is overblown when the arc of Prince's career is taken in it's entirety and given an honest assement.

Yeah, if you think those years were of little to no importance, and place no value on the opinion of someone who spent 10 years on the road with Prince... and ran his record company.

Noodled24 said:

babynoz said:

^^What I mean is quoting the entire comment. I wasn't trying to break it up because it's not necessary.

Bottom line, you seem to be in your feelings because contrary to the trend here, I don't give former associates biased comments as much weight as you'd like. I was simply making a general observation in my comment to Wonder505 that was not specifically directed to you. Next time I'll delete your portion to avoid confusion.

You have as much or as little information about Prince as you are entitled to have. Curiosity does not necessarily equate to being entitled to know anything more than you already do. Again, I do not automatically confer credibility on someone simply because they run their mouth the most.

Then give a specific example of something AL has said that lacks credibility?

Finally, whether deliberately or not, you completely missed the point regarding my friendship comment. My point is that just because some type of relationship existed many years ago does not automatically mean that person's opinion is credible or relevant over two decades later. Again, I consider the source and their agenda when judging the credibility of what is said no matter who is doing the talking, past or present.

Leeds has said some things I consider credible and some not. My point is that his importance is overblown when the arc of Prince's career is taken in it's entirety and given an honest assement.

Yeah, if you think those years were of little to no importance, and place no value on the opinion of someone who spent 10 years on the road with Prince... and ran his record company.

Perfect example. This quote: http://mrberre.tumblr.com...s-facebook

What mixed agenda is Alan Leeds referring to? And though he had a right to not care for the SNL performance, he seemed to beat Prince's capability as a great musician down to nothing from one performance despite great reviews from fans from all the 3rd Eye girl tours (and I'm not a fan of 3rd eye girl), and the brilliance and lyricial content of AOA IMO. Ofcourse, by referencing some conversation he had with Prince 20 years ago.

And again, Babynoz referred to Prince's entire career. Let's not get into how Alan Leeds only managed 3 artists in addition to whomever from the Roots/Rafael entourage that continues to give him a job.

Prince has written how many songs?

[Edited 10/31/16 10:55am]

Noodled24 said:

babynoz said:

^^What I mean is quoting the entire comment. I wasn't trying to break it up because it's not necessary.

Bottom line, you seem to be in your feelings because contrary to the trend here, I don't give former associates biased comments as much weight as you'd like. I was simply making a general observation in my comment to Wonder505 that was not specifically directed to you. Next time I'll delete your portion to avoid confusion.

You have as much or as little information about Prince as you are entitled to have. Curiosity does not necessarily equate to being entitled to know anything more than you already do. Again, I do not automatically confer credibility on someone simply because they run their mouth the most.

Then give a specific example of something AL has said that lacks credibility?

Finally, whether deliberately or not, you completely missed the point regarding my friendship comment. My point is that just because some type of relationship existed many years ago does not automatically mean that person's opinion is credible or relevant over two decades later. Again, I consider the source and their agenda when judging the credibility of what is said no matter who is doing the talking, past or present.

Leeds has said some things I consider credible and some not. My point is that his importance is overblown when the arc of Prince's career is taken in it's entirety and given an honest assement.

Yeah, if you think those years were of little to no importance, and place no value on the opinion of someone who spent 10 years on the road with Prince... and ran his record company.

Please stop getting in your feelings and posting bs. This is the third time you tried to spin my words into something I did not say. Either discuss my actual words without deflecting or don't address me because I don't allow that. Do not deliberately misrepresent my words, you are being disingenous.

I am pretty clear and straightforward in my comments. In one post you imply that I said Leeds was lying when I said no such thing. Now you say I think those years were of little or no importance and place no value on his opinion when again, I said no such thing. What I actually said and stand by is that his input is OVER blown, OVER, rated and OVER estimated....since when is that the same as saying no value or importance?

You claim not to engage in hyperbole but you ain't slick

wonder505 said:

Noodled24 said:

Yeah, if you think those years were of little to no importance, and place no value on the opinion of someone who spent 10 years on the road with Prince... and ran his record company.

Perfect example. This quote: http://mrberre.tumblr.com...s-facebook

What mixed agenda is Alan Leeds referring to? And though he had a right to not care for the SNL performance, he seemed to beat Prince's capability as a great musician down to nothing from one performance despite great reviews from fans from all the 3rd Eye girl tours (and I'm not a fan of 3rd eye girl), and the brilliance and lyricial content of AOA IMO. Ofcourse, by referencing some conversation he had with Prince 20 years ago.

And again, Babynoz referred to Prince's entire career. Let's not get into how Alan Leeds only managed 3 artists in addition to whomever from the Roots/Rafael entourage that continues to give him a job.

Prince has written how many songs?

[Edited 10/31/16 10:55am]

Thanks, that was the example I had in mind. In direct contrast to Leeds, this is what Alice Smith herself had to say......


https://twitter.com/alicesmithmusic/status/517840598284238848



Him having an opinion is all well and good but talking out of his ass will be called out whenever he does it and I don't care who doesn't like it.

wonder505 said:

Perfect example. This quote: http://mrberre.tumblr.com...s-facebook

I said where he isn't credible.

What mixed agenda is Alan Leeds referring to? And though he had a right to not care for the SNL performance, he seemed to beat Prince's capability as a great musician down to nothing from one performance despite great reviews from fans from all the 3rd Eye girl tours (and I'm not a fan of 3rd eye girl), and the brilliance and lyricial content of AOA IMO. Ofcourse, by referencing some conversation he had with Prince 20 years ago.

He says nothing of the sort.

And again, Babynoz referred to Prince's entire career. Let's not get into how Alan Leeds only managed 3 artists in addition to whomever from the Roots/Rafael entourage that continues to give him a job.

Good job I'm a Prince fan then eh?

Prince has written how many songs?

Who cares?

Noodled24 said:

wonder505 said:

Perfect example. This quote: http://mrberre.tumblr.com...s-facebook

I said where he isn't credible.

Good job I'm a Prince fan then eh?

Prince has written how many songs?

Who cares?

Okeedokee

^ How is it relevant?

"Prince had a career after Leeds." Yes. Nobody has said he hasn't.

People claiming that P's tour manager of 10 years & head of his record label isn't a credible voice on Prince. Is just nonsense.

babynoz said:

wonder505 said:

THat's an overblown statement. Alan Leeds gets both praise and criticism for his statements. And you are being hypocritical. Why is it okay to criticize Prince but not okay to criticize Alan Leeds? Again, because Alan knew knew him 20 years ago means that he is without fault? So no one here can critique ANYTHING??? You can't have it both ways. If Prince was a free for all criticism you best believe that if his former associated artists makes a public statement that I disagree with you bet I'm going to call them out on it. But according to you, because Alan worked with him, we can't say anything...ever.

Thank you. Especially when he himself chooses to make unsolicited public statements. As far as I'm concerned, Leeds as well as all other associates are fair game regarding what they do and say. I don't get the whole picking and choosing of who can be criticized and who is put on a pedestal. There is way too much of that going on here.

Either everybody can be discussed or no one can. That would be the fair way of doing things.

It's the truth.

Noodled24 said:

^ How is it relevant?

"Prince had a career after Leeds." Yes. Nobody has said he hasn't.

People claiming that P's tour manager of 10 years & head of his record label isn't a credible voice on Prince. Is just nonsense.

Alan and others have criticized Prince's music after his "80's heyday". So it is very relevant. Prince did not disappeared into oblivion because he move on.

Alan is credible on the time he spent with Prince. He can not speak on things he was not there for. I am not saying he cannot comment on what was going on with Prince recently but it's not ok comment like your in the mix and your not. No one wants to be judged on things they did in their 20's or younger, that not fair. I don't believe he is honest in everything he states about Prince. People lie and tried to take credit for things they did not do. I think Alan beef with Prince is that he could not control and tell Prince what to do.

A person can not be completly credible if they are bias and hold a grudge. I feel this is the case with Alan. Sometimes I wish people would consider what it was like to be a young man in the music industry.

Purplestar88 said:

Noodled24 said:

^ How is it relevant?

"Prince had a career after Leeds." Yes. Nobody has said he hasn't.

People claiming that P's tour manager of 10 years & head of his record label isn't a credible voice on Prince. Is just nonsense.

Alan and others have criticized Prince's music after his "80's heyday". So it is very relevant. Prince did not disappeared into oblivion because he move on.

Alan is credible on the time he spent with Prince. He can not speak on things he was not there for. I am not saying he cannot comment on what was going on with Prince recently but it's not ok comment like your in the mix and your not. No one wants to be judged on things they did in their 20's or younger, that not fair. I don't believe he is honest in everything he states about Prince. People lie and tried to take credit for things they did not do. I think Alan beef with Prince is that he could not control and tell Prince what to do.

A person can not be completly credible if they are bias and hold a grudge. I feel this is the case with Alan. Sometimes I wish people would consider what it was like to be a young man in the music industry.

Good points.

Purplestar88 said:

Noodled24 said:

^ How is it relevant?

"Prince had a career after Leeds." Yes. Nobody has said he hasn't.

People claiming that P's tour manager of 10 years & head of his record label isn't a credible voice on Prince. Is just nonsense.

Alan and others have criticized Prince's music after his "80's heyday". So it is very relevant. Prince did not disappeared into oblivion because he move on.

The number of songs Prince wrote... is irrelevant... when talking about Alan Leeds credibility as a former tour manager / head of Paisley Park records.

Alan is credible on the time he spent with Prince. He can not speak on things he was not there for. I am not saying he cannot comment on what was going on with Prince recently but it's not ok comment like your in the mix and your not. No one wants to be judged on things they did in their 20's or younger, that not fair. I don't believe he is honest in everything he states about Prince. People lie and tried to take credit for things they did not do. I think Alan beef with Prince is that he could not control and tell Prince what to do.

Outside of giving his opinion I agree. What he can do however is give some insight. For example his comments about Prince talking about selling his music via an infomercial - gives some insight into the Warner-Wars/Prince's desire to control his own distribution etc.

A person can not be completly credible if they are bias and hold a grudge. I feel this is the case with Alan. Sometimes I wish people would consider what it was like to be a young man in the music industry.

Of course he has his own point of view. That's just a spectacularly banal point to make. All anyone can do is speak of their own experience.

Noodled24 said:

Purplestar88 said:

Outside of giving his opinion I agree. What he can do however is give some insight. For example his comments about Prince talking about selling his music via an infomercial - gives some insight into the Warner-Wars/Prince's desire to control his own distribution etc.

A person can not be completly credible if they are bias and hold a grudge. I feel this is the case with Alan. Sometimes I wish people would consider what it was like to be a young man in the music industry.

Of course he has his own point of view. That's just a spectacularly banal point to make. All anyone can do is speak of their own experience.

I am not talking about the number of songs Prince wrote. I am talking about his hash criticism of Prince's music and decisions after he left Prince's camp. It was like he wanted Prince to fail after he left his camp. He can give insight on what he knew of Prince when he knew him but he can not claim to know anything after he left Prince especially after so long. It is not a banal point to make. He is biased and not always truthful but he wants to criticize Prince's fault from years ago. He is full of himself but wants to cut Prince down for doing the same. I stand by my statements. Alan is not above critcism or to have his credibility questioned. Point. Blank. Period.

Leeds comments about the 2014 performance were the worst kind of non-constructive criticism. I was an English major in college and a huge film geek. Pardon the grammatical errors and slight tangents--its late, my thoughts are whirring, and I am tired)..but I hate this kind of weak criticism.

My grandmother used to say "If you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all". I usually agree with that. But unsolicted opinions deserve responses. Unless his opinion was asked for or he was a professional music critic, then why does he even have to post an unsolicited opinion. If he is going to do something like that, than why can't we call him on it for being a spiteful critic, for giving what is essentially a bitchy Rex Reed like version of criticism. I hate when criticism is not constructive.

His BS criticism and his temper tantrum/grudge about a comment Prince stated 20 years ago that may have only meant that Prince didn't want to look normal reflects worse on him than it did on Prince (in fact, he mentioned that Prince comment in another source as well). Move on. Prince at least only made fun of his clothes between the two of them. Leeds went to social media (twice) and ripped him a new asshole 20 years later for a trash talking comment not uncommon amongst men.

For one, Ms.. Smith enjoyed Prince's cover of her song. For two, people Prince respects have covered HIS music and Leeds damn well knows that to be a fact. Third, fake concerns over Prince's clothes are trivial after the fact here. If the rest of the public didn't care (hell, they are used to it) why should he? No one walked away from that acclaimed performance, saying "gee, I would have listened to that performance but I couldn't get past those gawdy clothes". Fourth, he actually criticized Prince for underutilizing a talented singer. Damn, I thought it was a Prince performance. He had 8 fucking minutes of time to do his gig. What is he going to do--give a whole song to this woman? It would be a bit like when Marlon Brando sent in that native American women to collect his Oscar. They lashed out at her because Brando didn't show.Did he criticize Prince for not giving Wendy and Lisa constant solos when he was in command? Of course not. Fifth, yes he is not Alice Smith (whatever that is supposed to mean--be specific Leeds, if you think her original version is better than explain why). Respect Prince enough to actually give his music a chance and examine the actual original songs featured in this performance and on his album (instead of clocking how much time was given to the women featured in the album or on stage). And do these women need Leeds defense--give me a break? Mixed agenda?--is he trying to determine Prince's motives by watching an 8 minute performance (talk about hyperbolic overreacting). Its funny how he spends all his time bitching about what he thinks Prince left out of the overall performance, his clothes, and the amount of time he gave to the female guest appearances, but never explains what is actually wrong with Prince's performance..(was his singing uninspired, were his guitar skills lacking, were his lyrics ridiculous or was it just that Prince wasn't with the Revolution and his brother anymore?) Leeds comes off reactionary and not as cool as he thinks he is.

Back to my disdain of non-constructive criticism. I remember a review for the Jolie film "A mighty heart" in which a critic spent the whole time bitching about Jolie's high profile adoptions. I remember Rex Reeds many spiteful reviews of films in which he obviously had no objectivity or suspension of disbelief (stating before reviewing a Christopher Nolan that he had a general hatred for Nolan, making fun of Kidman's forehead before reviewing a film of hers) this BS pisses me off and directed at Prince for a solid performance (because of personal reasons) it pisses me off even more.

I don't think Leeds is totally wrong about Prince's clothing. Don't get me wrong. IN general, he may have a point about flashiness overshadowing the music, but when the music is right there right in front of you, how can one say that it is overshadowed. He does think Prince is talented and may even care for him in his own way, but he is being spiteful here and he sucks at musical criticism--like he is more interested in satorical choices and petty swipes than actual constructive musical criticism.

Noodled24 said:

Purplestar88 said:

Outside of giving his opinion I agree. What he can do however is give some insight. For example his comments about Prince talking about selling his music via an infomercial - gives some insight into the Warner-Wars/Prince's desire to control his own distribution etc.

A person can not be completly credible if they are bias and hold a grudge. I feel this is the case with Alan. Sometimes I wish people would consider what it was like to be a young man in the music industry.

Of course he has his own point of view. That's just a spectacularly banal point to make. All anyone can do is speak of their own experience.

[Edited 10/31/16 20:03pm]

[Edited 10/31/16 20:08pm]

[Edited 10/31/16 20:46pm]

[Edited 10/31/16 21:01pm]

[Edited 10/31/16 21:07pm]

babynoz said:

Purplestar88 said:

Alan and others have criticized Prince's music after his "80's heyday". So it is very relevant. Prince did not disappeared into oblivion because he move on.

Alan is credible on the time he spent with Prince. He can not speak on things he was not there for. I am not saying he cannot comment on what was going on with Prince recently but it's not ok comment like your in the mix and your not. No one wants to be judged on things they did in their 20's or younger, that not fair. I don't believe he is honest in everything he states about Prince. People lie and tried to take credit for things they did not do. I think Alan beef with Prince is that he could not control and tell Prince what to do.

A person can not be completly credible if they are bias and hold a grudge. I feel this is the case with Alan. Sometimes I wish people would consider what it was like to be a young man in the music industry.

Good points.

Not really.

Alan doesn't speak for things he wasn't there for, he doesn't "pass judgement" like you won't be allowed buy a Prince album if Alan doesn't like it. Please provide some evidence that Alan is lying and taking credit for things he didn't do as is strongly implied by that post.

I have never seen any evidence of a grudge; people ask his opinion, he gives it. As well as being critical he has also consistently praised Prince's work. For example, even at his most critical of Prince in that Q&A thread he said the following of prince's new music:

I have no doubt that he can still stumble on a brilliant new song in his sleep. His effortless command of the stage and awesomely rich catalogue will always lure ticket buyers into any venue he chooses to visit. We music fans will always be richer for his presence.

God, I know right, such bitterness, what a grudge. SHAKING MY HEAD.

Condensending responses...oh how fun.

This might be going in circles but fuck it...First of all, those examples of people (that I provided) who knew and worked for Prince for more than ten years are not the only ones. People do leave Prince's employment for reasons other than the fact that they hate his guts BTW which I can't help but think that is what you are implying with the "lasting ten years" crap. Secondly, when only talking to employees from 30 years ago, Toure (even if he does use the word "former") is in effect cherry picking (I am sure you know that term). Analyzing any human being's personality or psyche based on limited evidence is cherry picking (whether it is accidental or intentional or due to limited resources available.)

Your last comment can be thrown at your direction as well (so therefore useless here). If you don't like criticism of Leeds or of Toure's usage of Leeds, than don't read it or participate in this discussion;just continue to think Prince's maturity level was fossiled in amber.

Noodled24 said:

purplerabbithole said:

A.) In reference to your earlier response to me, I never said those in his current inner circle didn't sign papers shutting them up. It doesn't change the fact that Alan is no longer in P's circle and hasn't been for a quite a while. An 'authority' on P doesn't know he has a drug problem,,okay?

Correct he hasn't... and nobody knew Prince had a problem, or how long he had that problem.

You just defined the term "former associate". I sincerely hope this is going somewhere...

people that may have selective memory, have axes to grind or at the very least have very little knowledge of what kind of person he was on a daily basis in the later years of his life. Plus, I also suspect that since P pushed people away, they sometimes spoke out against him publically while he was alive in an attempt to get his attention (to remind him that they still existed). --He did work with some musicians later who talked shit about him in previous years. And writers and the press don't give a shit about the times when P was normal or funny or respectful-- they only want the divo stories. So, the writers help contribute to an one-sided narrative. When a person dies, the narrative usually switches to the favorable side (as it should, in my opinion--most people deserve an eulogy). In time, we will get a moderate objective take on P.

Easy solution... don't read or watch anything Alan contributes to. The rest of us will continue to enjoy his insights into the man he worked with for 10 years.

[Edited 10/31/16 21:04pm]

a grudge against the man is different than a grudge against his talent. Leeds knows Prince is talented. No one said otherwise. I actually liked Leeds when he did a Q and A on Prince in 2013. He seemed objective and relatively fair. But then I thought about it---how good of a source is someone who knew him 30 years ago. I can't remember much about my friends from high school and I am only in my early 40's. Obviously, he has mixed feelings about Prince--which I get. But he seemed to be in a pretty pissed off mood after that 2014 SNL performance and calling him on it seems fair to me.

jaawwnn said:

babynoz said:

Good points.

Not really.

Alan doesn't speak for things he wasn't there for, he doesn't "pass judgement" like you won't be allowed buy a Prince album if Alan doesn't like it. Please provide some evidence that Alan is lying and taking credit for things he didn't do as is strongly implied by that post.

I have never seen any evidence of a grudge; people ask his opinion, he gives it. As well as being critical he has also consistently praised Prince's work. For example, even at his most critical of Prince in that Q&A thread he said the following of prince's new music:

I have no doubt that he can still stumble on a brilliant new song in his sleep. His effortless command of the stage and awesomely rich catalogue will always lure ticket buyers into any venue he chooses to visit. We music fans will always be richer for his presence.

God, I know right, such bitterness, what a grudge. SHAKING MY HEAD.

purplerabbithole said:

a grudge against the man is different than a grudge against his talent. Leeds knows Prince is talented. No one said otherwise. I actually liked Leeds when he did a Q and A on Prince in 2013. He seemed objective and relatively fair. But then I thought about it---how good of a source is someone who knew him 30 years ago. I can't remember much about my friends from high school and I am only in my early 40's. Obviously, he has mixed feelings about Prince--which I get. But he seemed to be in a pretty pissed off mood after that 2014 SNL performance and calling him on it seems fair to me.

jaawwnn said:

Not really.

Alan doesn't speak for things he wasn't there for, he doesn't "pass judgement" like you won't be allowed buy a Prince album if Alan doesn't like it. Please provide some evidence that Alan is lying and taking credit for things he didn't do as is strongly implied by that post.

I have never seen any evidence of a grudge; people ask his opinion, he gives it. As well as being critical he has also consistently praised Prince's work. For example, even at his most critical of Prince in that Q&A thread he said the following of prince's new music:

I have no doubt that he can still stumble on a brilliant new song in his sleep. His effortless command of the stage and awesomely rich catalogue will always lure ticket buyers into any venue he chooses to visit. We music fans will always be richer for his presence.

God, I know right, such bitterness, what a grudge. SHAKING MY HEAD.

Exactly purplerabbithole.

jaawwnn said:

babynoz said:

Good points.

Not really.

Alan doesn't speak for things he wasn't there for, he doesn't "pass judgement" like you won't be allowed buy a Prince album if Alan doesn't like it. Please provide some evidence that Alan is lying and taking credit for things he didn't do as is strongly implied by that post.

I have never seen any evidence of a grudge; people ask his opinion, he gives it. As well as being critical he has also consistently praised Prince's work. For example, even at his most critical of Prince in that Q&A thread he said the following of prince's new music:

I have no doubt that he can still stumble on a brilliant new song in his sleep. His effortless command of the stage and awesomely rich catalogue will always lure ticket buyers into any venue he chooses to visit. We music fans will always be richer for his presence.

God, I know right, such bitterness, what a grudge. SHAKING MY HEAD.

Many take his word as gospel. He claim to introduced Prince to jazz, which sounds like crap to me. Even if it's true does he want a award for it? He acted like Prince should fall into oblivion without his involvement. He clearly has a grudge, just because he complements Prince here and there does not mean he does not hold a grudge. When you so gifted and talented like Prince no one can deny it so matter how hard they tried to put you down and find fault. No one is perfect. If Prince was being harsh about his time with Alan people would contrdict Prince's statements but Alan and others make statements and no one can question them or their motives. Please. I stand by my statement unitl I see otherwise.

Purplestar88 said:

He claim to introduced Prince to jazz, which sounds like crap to me.

.

Well whoever introduced him to jazz, it's too bad they couldn't also teach him how to *play* it.

CAL3 said:

Purplestar88 said:

He claim to introduced Prince to jazz, which sounds like crap to me.

.

Well whoever introduced him to jazz, it's too bad they couldn't also teach him how to *play* it.

So are you saying Prince could not play jazz? I think Prince could play jazz.

jaawwnn said:

babynoz said:

Good points.

Not really.

Alan doesn't speak for things he wasn't there for, he doesn't "pass judgement" like you won't be allowed buy a Prince album if Alan doesn't like it. Please provide some evidence that Alan is lying and taking credit for things he didn't do as is strongly implied by that post.

I have never seen any evidence of a grudge; people ask his opinion, he gives it. As well as being critical he has also consistently praised Prince's work. For example, even at his most critical of Prince in that Q&A thread he said the following of prince's new music:

I have no doubt that he can still stumble on a brilliant new song in his sleep. His effortless command of the stage and awesomely rich catalogue will always lure ticket buyers into any venue he chooses to visit. We music fans will always be richer for his presence.

God, I know right, such bitterness, what a grudge. SHAKING MY HEAD.

Sounds passive aggressive to me.

Purplestar88 said:

CAL3 said:

.

Well whoever introduced him to jazz, it's too bad they couldn't also teach him how to *play* it.

So are you saying Prince could not play jazz? I think Prince could play jazz.

.

I think he could play an approximation of jazz - more along the lines of "smooth jazz." Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, by any means. His instrumental "jazz-oriented" work lacks the harmonic complexity of actual jazz.

Purplestar88 said:

Noodled24 said:

I am not talking about the number of songs Prince wrote. I am talking about his hash criticism of Prince's music and decisions after he left Prince's camp. It was like he wanted Prince to fail after he left his camp. He can give insight on what he knew of Prince when he knew him but he can not claim to know anything after he left Prince especially after so long. It is not a banal point to make. He is biased and not always truthful but he wants to criticize Prince's fault from years ago. He is full of himself but wants to cut Prince down for doing the same. I stand by my statements. Alan is not above critcism or to have his credibility questioned. Point. Blank. Period.

Alan isn't releasing albums, or going on tour. What exactly is it you want to criticize him for? Because he said something about Prince you don't agree with?

[Edited 11/1/16 7:31am]

purplerabbithole said:

Leeds comments about the 2014 performance were the worst kind of non-constructive criticism. I was an English major in college and a huge film geek. Pardon the grammatical errors and slight tangents--its late, my thoughts are whirring, and I am tired)..but I hate this kind of weak criticism.

My grandmother used to say "If you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all". I usually agree with that. But unsolicted opinions deserve responses. Unless his opinion was asked for or he was a professional music critic, then why does he even have to post an unsolicited opinion. If he is going to do something like that, than why can't we call him on it for being a spiteful critic, for giving what is essentially a bitchy Rex Reed like version of criticism. I hate when criticism is not constructive.

His BS criticism and his temper tantrum/grudge about a comment Prince stated 20 years ago that may have only meant that Prince didn't want to look normal reflects worse on him than it did on Prince (in fact, he mentioned that Prince comment in another source as well). Move on. Prince at least only made fun of his clothes between the two of them. Leeds went to social media (twice) and ripped him a new asshole 20 years later for a trash talking comment not uncommon amongst men.

For one, Ms.. Smith enjoyed Prince's cover of her song. For two, people Prince respects have covered HIS music and Leeds damn well knows that to be a fact. Third, fake concerns over Prince's clothes are trivial after the fact here. If the rest of the public didn't care (hell, they are used to it) why should he? No one walked away from that acclaimed performance, saying "gee, I would have listened to that performance but I couldn't get past those gawdy clothes". Fourth, he actually criticized Prince for underutilizing a talented singer. Damn, I thought it was a Prince performance. He had 8 fucking minutes of time to do his gig. What is he going to do--give a whole song to this woman? It would be a bit like when Marlon Brando sent in that native American women to collect his Oscar. They lashed out at her because Brando didn't show.Did he criticize Prince for not giving Wendy and Lisa constant solos when he was in command? Of course not. Fifth, yes he is not Alice Smith (whatever that is supposed to mean--be specific Leeds, if you think her original version is better than explain why). Respect Prince enough to actually give his music a chance and examine the actual original songs featured in this performance and on his album (instead of clocking how much time was given to the women featured in the album or on stage). And do these women need Leeds defense--give me a break? Mixed agenda?--is he trying to determine Prince's motives by watching an 8 minute performance (talk about hyperbolic overreacting). Its funny how he spends all his time bitching about what he thinks Prince left out of the overall performance, his clothes, and the amount of time he gave to the female guest appearances, but never explains what is actually wrong with Prince's performance..(was his singing uninspired, were his guitar skills lacking, were his lyrics ridiculous or was it just that Prince wasn't with the Revolution and his brother anymore?) Leeds comes off reactionary and not as cool as he thinks he is.

Back to my disdain of non-constructive criticism. I remember a review for the Jolie film "A mighty heart" in which a critic spent the whole time bitching about Jolie's high profile adoptions. I remember Rex Reeds many spiteful reviews of films in which he obviously had no objectivity or suspension of disbelief (stating before reviewing a Christopher Nolan that he had a general hatred for Nolan, making fun of Kidman's forehead before reviewing a film of hers) this BS pisses me off and directed at Prince for a solid performance (because of personal reasons) it pisses me off even more.

I don't think Leeds is totally wrong about Prince's clothing. Don't get me wrong. IN general, he may have a point about flashiness overshadowing the music, but when the music is right there right in front of you, how can one say that it is overshadowed. He does think Prince is talented and may even care for him in his own way, but he is being spiteful here and he sucks at musical criticism--like he is more interested in satorical choices and petty swipes than actual constructive musical criticism.

We're talking about Alan Leeds. That's an entire fucking paragraph on Jolie?

If you're goinng to post a wall of text keep it on topic.

purplerabbithole said:

Condensending responses...oh how fun.

If the bra fits.

This might be going in circles but fuck it...First of all, those examples of people (that I provided) who knew and worked for Prince for more than ten years are not the only ones. People do leave Prince's employment for reasons other than the fact that they hate his guts BTW which I can't help but think that is what you are implying with the "lasting ten years" crap.

"all those examples" - you named about 4 people mate. The people who lasted that long are in the minority.

Secondly, when only talking to employees from 30 years ago, Toure (even if he does use the word "former") is in effect cherry picking (I am sure you know that term). Analyzing any human being's personality or psyche based on limited evidence is cherry picking (whether it is accidental or intentional or due to limited resources available.)

Also you've just described every interview ever conducted, & biography written.

Lets cut the bullshit. We're 3 pages in you've repeatedly called Leeds a liar, claimed he's said things that aren't true, has tried to make out he's still a member of the inner circle and that he's tried to take credit for things he didn't do...

To back that up, you posted Alans review of Prince on SNL. Which doesn't back up your claims AT ALL, and all you can come up with is "well if Alan criticizes Prince then I can criticize Alan" As if Leeds was performing on SNL.

If you go on TV for the world to see, the world will have an opinion.

[Edited 11/1/16 7:46am]

The great Alan Leeds did such an awesome job curating many superb James Brown packages, it would be such a positive thing if he was in charge of Prince's posthumous releases. I believe he can be trusted to intelligently program the tracklists, write insightful liner notes, and most importantly leave the music exactly the way it is.

[Edited 11/1/16 7:47am]

Noodled24 said:

Purplestar88 said:

Alan isn't releasing albums, or going on tour. What exactly is it you want to criticize him for? Because he said something about Prince you don't agree with?

[Edited 11/1/16 7:31am]

And why can't we criticize something Alan said that we disagree with?

wonder505 said:

Noodled24 said:

Alan isn't releasing albums, or going on tour. What exactly is it you want to criticize him for? Because he said something about Prince you don't agree with?

[Edited 11/1/16 7:31am]

And why can't we criticize something Alan said that we disagree with?

You're not criticizing something he said. No. What you've done here, is take offense to something he said. then attempted to discredit him, and questioned his credibility as a voice on Prince, despite the fact he (and his brother Eric) spent a long time with Prince.

If you simply disagreed with him you'd start a thread about how great the SNL performance was, and how totally wrong Alan was. (Although, the sound on the original broadcast wasn't great and he wasn't entirely wrong about the costumes not really doing Prince favours).

Noodled24 said:

wonder505 said:

And why can't we criticize something Alan said that we disagree with?

You're not criticizing something he said. No. What you've done here, is take offense to something he said. then attempted to discredit him, and questioned his credibility as a voice on Prince, despite the fact he (and his brother Eric) spent a long time with Prince.

If you simply disagreed with him you'd start a thread about how great the SNL performance was, and how totally wrong Alan was. (Although, the sound on the original broadcast wasn't great and he wasn't entirely wrong about the costumes not really doing Prince favours).

YOU are taking offense to my criticism of Alan by trying to take away MY RIGHT to discredit Alan. Twenty years has passed since Alan spoke to Prince so he has NO credibility to criticize to a performance and insinuate a "mixed agenda" as if he knows Prince's intention on performing the way he did. Some of us dug the costumes and I could debate Alan Leeds head on about it.