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Thread started 08/06/16 8:56pm

MichaelJackson
5

Did Vanity's career collapse because of her remark about her dad?

I was watching The Last Dragon today and recalled how beautiful Vanity was in the movie, a strikingly beautiful "black" woman. As a teen I had an immediate crush on her.

She had a decent hit with Nasty Girls and some RnB hits.

Then she hooked up with Nikki Sixx of Motley Crue and became a crackhead. Was that the beginning of her downfall as an artist and actress or was it what she said at 5:49 in this 1986 interview with Joan Rivers?

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Reply #1 posted 08/06/16 9:59pm

luvgirl

That was definitely cringe worthy, but sometimes people say stupid crap they don't mean when they are nervous and trying to be funny. I know I have... I once told a friend of mine in friendly banter who was pregnant that I would punch her in the stomach. I didn't think about what I was saying and the comment came out all kinds of wrong. I was just trying to be funny and was caught off guard... Totes forgot the girl was preggo with her 7 months old bulging stomach sticking me in the eye. Had to apologize my ass off. Luckily she didn't take offense. She just pretty much bust my chops about it every chance she gets now... "Remember that time I was pregnant and you told me you were gonna punch me in my stomach?" falloff

I think that's what happened to Vanity in that interview. Furthermore, it's not like she was opposed to dating a brotha. She dated many. And no I don't think that is why her career collapsed. She made mistakes and got into drugs and had to suffer the consequences, but in the end she came back swinging with the biggest comeback of all, a relationship with God...
[Edited 8/7/16 7:57am]
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Reply #2 posted 08/07/16 7:15am

EmmaMcG

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I think her not actually being particularly talented might have something to do with why she didn't have much of a career. That, and the drugs.
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Reply #3 posted 08/07/16 7:33am

luvgirl

EmmaMcG said:

I think her not actually being particularly talented might have something to do with why she didn't have much of a career. That, and the drugs.


I thought she was a decent actress. She was no Meryl Streep, but she held her own in the films she were in. I've seen less talented actresses that has made it in the industry. I think it all equates to her infamous drug use. With her beauty, she could have been a success if she had her head on her shoulders. She was just too damaged to handle the lime light.
[Edited 8/7/16 7:35am]
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Reply #4 posted 08/07/16 8:15am

endiadj

She had beauty and more importantly, charisma. She had the "it" factor. She was talented enough to succeed. Like others have said, drug use played a major role in her entertainment career demise. And, as I've said numerous times on this site, if she had just stuck it out and did Purple Rain, she would've been on top of the world coming off the success of that movie. Her music/acting career would've been heightened as well as her profile.

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Reply #5 posted 08/07/16 8:54am

luvgirl

endiadj said:

She had beauty and more importantly, charisma. She had the "it" factor. She was talented enough to succeed. Like others have said, drug use played a major role in her entertainment career demise. And, as I've said numerous times on this site, if she had just stuck it out and did Purple Rain, she would've been on top of the world coming off the success of that movie. Her music/acting career would've been heightened as well as her profile.



Yes, that charisma... How could I forget about her charisma? Ever seen some of those interviews? She had everybody wrapped around her little finger back then. Kind of like the infamous interview with Mel B and Prince. They were all salvatating at the mouth. bow
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Reply #6 posted 08/07/16 9:20am

EmmaMcG

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luvgirl said:

EmmaMcG said:

I think her not actually being particularly talented might have something to do with why she didn't have much of a career. That, and the drugs.


I thought she was a decent actress. She was no Meryl Streep, but she held her own in the films she were in. I've seen less talented actresses that has made it in the industry. I think it all equates to her infamous drug use. With her beauty, she could have been a success if she had her head on her shoulders. She was just too damaged to handle the lime light.
[Edited 8/7/16 7:35am]



She wasn't awful but definitely not good enough for people to forget about the drugs.
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Reply #7 posted 08/07/16 10:52am

Ottensen

endiadj said:

She had beauty and more importantly, charisma. She had the "it" factor. She was talented enough to succeed. Like others have said, drug use played a major role in her entertainment career demise. And, as I've said numerous times on this site, if she had just stuck it out and did Purple Rain, she would've been on top of the world coming off the success of that movie. Her music/acting career would've been heightened as well as her profile.




You mean the way it did for Appolonia Kotero? lol

.

.

.
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Reply #8 posted 08/07/16 11:14am

endiadj

Ottensen said:

endiadj said:

She had beauty and more importantly, charisma. She had the "it" factor. She was talented enough to succeed. Like others have said, drug use played a major role in her entertainment career demise. And, as I've said numerous times on this site, if she had just stuck it out and did Purple Rain, she would've been on top of the world coming off the success of that movie. Her music/acting career would've been heightened as well as her profile.

You mean the way it did for Appolonia Kotero? lol . . .

As much as I adore Apples, she didn't have the charisma Denise had. I also think Denise was a better singer and actress. Apples also didn't particularly want a singing career, right? A6 was just for PR and that was it. Not even sure how much she really wanted an acting career either. I believe Denise really wanted both.

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Reply #9 posted 08/07/16 11:16am

Ottensen

EmmaMcG said:

luvgirl said:



I thought she was a decent actress. She was no Meryl Streep, but she held her own in the films she were in. I've seen less talented actresses that has made it in the industry. I think it all equates to her infamous drug use. With her beauty, she could have been a success if she had her head on her shoulders. She was just too damaged to handle the lime light.
[Edited 8/7/16 7:35am]



She wasn't awful but definitely not good enough for people to forget about the drugs.


Indeed.

History is littered with dozens of actors who suffered issues with substance abuse throughout their careers and lifetimes, but the difference between them and Vanity is that they actually were GIFTED enough for their talents & capabilities to carry them- and actually complete cash cow projects the gave studios and record labels big numbers and return $$$ on their investments. Smouldering, sexy, swirly girls are a dime a dozen in Hollywood: that's why the good lord made indie circles, niche markets, and B-to-D Lists; not everyone can be a star with legacy and longevity, and the other routes can accommodate those long on looks but short on craft, discipline, or just plain ole mass appeal and relatability.
[Edited 8/7/16 11:18am]
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Reply #10 posted 08/07/16 12:16pm

Ottensen

endiadj said:



Ottensen said:


endiadj said:

She had beauty and more importantly, charisma. She had the "it" factor. She was talented enough to succeed. Like others have said, drug use played a major role in her entertainment career demise. And, as I've said numerous times on this site, if she had just stuck it out and did Purple Rain, she would've been on top of the world coming off the success of that movie. Her music/acting career would've been heightened as well as her profile.



You mean the way it did for Appolonia Kotero? lol . . .

As much as I adore Apples, she didn't have the charisma Denise had. I also think Denise was a better singer and actress. Apples also didn't particularly want a singing career, right? A6 was just for PR and that was it. Not even sure how much she really wanted an acting career either. I believe Denise really wanted both.



I can't say I have any idea whether Apples wanted a long term singing career, although I did go to concerts on both the 1999 and Purple Rain tours and can attest from seeing the live performances that neither one of those heffas can sing falloff Insofar as who may have wanted an acting career more, to me it's obviously Kotero: people forget she was already acting on 80s prime time tv shows before Purple Rain, and was casted the good old fashioned way, via agent and casting call. I do remember she did Falcon Crest after she left the Purple camp, and has since stayed active in the industry with a production company & owning a commercial modeling agency in Beverly Hills. I think that speaks a lot to how much someone really wants something - how they actively choose to direct their energies into not only harnessing, but maintaining career objectives and end goals. Also, I can't see any evidence in Vanity's spiritual testimonies as Denise Matthews that give any indication that she gave two hoots about the acting world once she left that life behind to focus on her Evangelical ministry...and it's not as if she couldn't do both if she wanted. There are notable public figures who are able to balance their Christian call to ministry with successful careers in the mainstream film market. I think it's a matter of priority, in addition to the usual components of opportunity, ability, and FOCUS. :



.
.
. pc
[Edited 8/7/16 12:25pm]
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Reply #11 posted 08/07/16 12:47pm

endiadj

Ottensen said:

endiadj said:

As much as I adore Apples, she didn't have the charisma Denise had. I also think Denise was a better singer and actress. Apples also didn't particularly want a singing career, right? A6 was just for PR and that was it. Not even sure how much she really wanted an acting career either. I believe Denise really wanted both.

I can't say I have any idea whether Apples wanted a long term singing career, although I did go to concerts on both the 1999 and Purple Rain tours and can attest from seeing the live performances that neither one of those heffas can sing falloff Insofar as who may have wanted an acting career more, to me it's obviously Kotero: people forget she was already acting on 80s prime time tv shows before Purple Rain, and was casted the good old fashioned way, via agent and casting call. I do remember she did Falcon Crest after she left the Purple camp, and has since stayed active in the industry with a production company & owning a commercial modeling agency in Beverly Hills. I think that speaks a lot to how much someone really wants something - how they actively choose to direct their energies into not only harnessing, but maintaining career objectives and end goals. Also, I can't see any evidence in Vanity's spiritual testimonies as Denise Matthews that give any indication that she gave two hoots about the acting world once she left that life behind to focus on her Evangelical ministry...and it's not as if she couldn't do both if she wanted. There are notable public figures who are able to balance their Christian call to ministry with successful careers in the mainstream film market. I think it's a matter of priority, in addition to the usual components of opportunity, ability, and FOCUS. : . . . pc [Edited 8/7/16 12:25pm]

I would suspect her near death from drugs changed her whole perspective on everything and think she felt she needed a clean break to stay free of the temptations of Hollywood. She did a 180 on her entire life afterwards. Nothing was more important than Christ to her.

Jmo, of course on the two ladies and how they approached their acting/singing careers. Apples did have an acting career before PR. I'm sure I read somewhere that she didn't want to follow through with A6 past PR. Just feel that Denise had an opportunity to go further in both if she had stayed clean and patient.

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Reply #12 posted 08/07/16 5:03pm

avajane

The lifestyle simply caught up to her until she had enough and found God through her religion, simple as that.
Love is God,
God is Love
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Reply #13 posted 08/07/16 7:33pm

SoulAlive

In 1988,Vanity's career was riding high.Her movie Action Jackson was a box office smash,and the two songs she recorded for the soundtrack seemed to indicate that her recording career was getting back on track.There was talk of an upcoming album to be produced by Jam and Lewis which surely would have taken her career to new heights.It was disappointing that,at the time of her greatest popularity,things began to fall apart.Her personal life spiraled out of control.

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Reply #14 posted 08/07/16 8:16pm

Goddess4Real

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SoulAlive said:

In 1988,Vanity's career was riding high.Her movie Action Jackson was a box office smash,and the two songs she recorded for the soundtrack seemed to indicate that her recording career was getting back on track.There was talk of an upcoming album to be produced by Jam and Lewis which surely would have taken her career to new heights.It was disappointing that,at the time of her greatest popularity,things began to fall apart.Her personal life spiraled out of control.

sad Yuuuuuuuuuuuup and she was amazing in Jackie Collins (RIP wilted ) miniseries Lady Boss (1992).

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #15 posted 08/08/16 3:51pm

Vashtix

Ottensen said:

EmmaMcG said:
She wasn't awful but definitely not good enough for people to forget about the drugs.
Indeed. History is littered with dozens of actors who suffered issues with substance abuse throughout their careers and lifetimes, but the difference between them and Vanity is that they actually were GIFTED enough for their talents & capabilities to carry them- and actually complete cash cow projects the gave studios and record labels big numbers and return $$$ on their investments. Smouldering, sexy, swirly girls are a dime a dozen in Hollywood: that's why the good lord made indie circles, niche markets, and B-to-D Lists; not everyone can be a star with legacy and longevity, and the other routes can accommodate those long on looks but short on craft, discipline, or just plain ole mass appeal and relatability. [Edited 8/7/16 11:18am]

Vanity set the standard Video Vixens and girl groups use to this day

She had a special charisma and no one is going on line checking for any of the other proteges not even Carmen but Vanity - she set the bar and was an original - Madonna copied her and the rest on down

the tuxedo coat and the knee boots, the elbow length gloves and and the lace

The lace stragtegically placed -

She was not a dime a dozen D listed girl

Her place in history is what it is and it is way more than a Dlist video girl or Prince protege

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Reply #16 posted 08/08/16 4:18pm

CalhounSq

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Can someone quote the remark? If not, I'll watch it later, can't make the brain space right now falloff

As for her career, we don't know how truly messed up she was with the drugs. She was so stunning she made records without being able to sing, & acted in films despite being a pretty bad actress. She could have gone further, but who knows what happened behind the scenes. If she was so bad that she couldn't make it to set or deliver lines coherently, people are only gonna put up with that kinda stuff for so long. You eventually make yourself poison to the industry, & if you don't reinvent (& find people interested enough to give you another shot), you're done. Too bad it happened to her - she truly had a face you couldn't look away from & could have capitalized on that for a number of years. nod

heart prince I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it prince heart
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Reply #17 posted 08/08/16 5:49pm

pnv

CalhounSq said:

Can someone quote the remark? If not, I'll watch it later, can't make the brain space right now falloff

As for her career, we don't know how truly messed up she was with the drugs. She was so stunning she made records without being able to sing, & acted in films despite being a pretty bad actress. She could have gone further, but who knows what happened behind the scenes. If she was so bad that she couldn't make it to set or deliver lines coherently, people are only gonna put up with that kinda stuff for so long. You eventually make yourself poison to the industry, & if you don't reinvent (& find people interested enough to give you another shot), you're done. Too bad it happened to her - she truly had a face you couldn't look away from & could have capitalized on that for a number of years. nod




Remember she stepped away from Hollywood. She had just completed another album and movie. But she found God.
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Reply #18 posted 08/08/16 6:05pm

CalhounSq

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pnv said:

CalhounSq said:

Can someone quote the remark? If not, I'll watch it later, can't make the brain space right now falloff

As for her career, we don't know how truly messed up she was with the drugs. She was so stunning she made records without being able to sing, & acted in films despite being a pretty bad actress. She could have gone further, but who knows what happened behind the scenes. If she was so bad that she couldn't make it to set or deliver lines coherently, people are only gonna put up with that kinda stuff for so long. You eventually make yourself poison to the industry, & if you don't reinvent (& find people interested enough to give you another shot), you're done. Too bad it happened to her - she truly had a face you couldn't look away from & could have capitalized on that for a number of years. nod




Remember she stepped away from Hollywood. She had just completed another album and movie. But she found God.

Admittedly, I don't know her story, if she stepped away after the drugs (I'm assuming that's the case) or what, but I do remember her becoming very spiritual. Just saying if she wanted to continue that other path, she clearly could have. Just seems like she got in her own way. Hollywood is filled with beautiful people of modest talent. smile
heart prince I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it prince heart
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Reply #19 posted 08/09/16 1:24am

SoulAlive

"My mother has always had a thing for gorillas.She married my dad....he's black" confused

CalhounSq said:

Can someone quote the remark? If not, I'll watch it later, can't make the brain space right now falloff

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Reply #20 posted 08/09/16 1:36am

CalhounSq

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SoulAlive said:

"My mother has always had a thing for gorillas.She married my dad....he's black" confused





CalhounSq said:


Can someone quote the remark? If not, I'll watch it later, can't make the brain space right now falloff



OH HELL NAW whofarted downright tragic! Thx for quoting it, I'm so lazy today!!! lol
heart prince I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it prince heart
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Reply #21 posted 08/09/16 8:33pm

phunkdaddy

avatar

EmmaMcG said:

I think her not actually being particularly talented might have something to do with why she didn't have much of a career. That, and the drugs.

I agree. While I dug Nasty Girl the Vanity 6 album wasn't anything to write about.

You can only give kudos to the music somewhat thanks to the Purple one.

Her acting was just okay.

Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint
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Reply #22 posted 08/10/16 11:01am

SoulAlive

CalhounSq said:

SoulAlive said:

"My mother has always had a thing for gorillas.She married my dad....he's black" confused

OH HELL NAW whofarted downright tragic! Thx for quoting it, I'm so lazy today!!! lol

it's a tasteless comment confused I think she was just trying to be funny,but it backfired

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Reply #23 posted 08/10/16 2:50pm

SoulAlive

phunkdaddy said:

EmmaMcG said:

I think her not actually being particularly talented might have something to do with why she didn't have much of a career. That, and the drugs.

I agree. While I dug Nasty Girl the Vanity 6 album wasn't anything to write about.

You can only give kudos to the music somewhat thanks to the Purple one.

Her acting was just okay.

As far as her singing career goes...I think she just needed stronger material.Her first album,Wild Animal,was a mess....sterile production,lousy songs and alot of squealing throughout smile The second album,Skin On Skin showed some improvement,but what Vanity really needed was some heavyweight producers like Jam and Lewis.Look what they were able to do with Janet Jackson (who's not really much of a singer,either).

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Reply #24 posted 08/10/16 4:14pm

NouveauDance

avatar

EmmaMcG said:

I think her not actually being particularly talented might have something to do with why she didn't have much of a career. That, and the drugs.

Plenty of successful popstars aren't the best vocalists, that's not it. Vanity was a star because she had that spark in her, but I would guess her drug abuse and getting caught up in the lifestyle made her neglect her career or take it for granted.

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Reply #25 posted 08/10/16 6:29pm

Goddess4Real

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So far the posts here have been very thought provoking about Vanity's career collapse. I think it was the combination of her upbringing, what roles were available at the time for women of color in film and on tv, and her drug use.....which led to an overdose and her to the path of christ, leaving the industry altogether in the 90s.

She didn't mean any harm about the gorilla remark to describe her dad, or describing Prince as Kong, but she also didn't realise the historical significance of that word being used to describe people of color in books, television, films and in the media and why its so offensive along with other hurtful sterotypes and terms eg. the N word etc. She was lucky their was no social media back then otherwise the backlash would have been more damaging.

[Edited 8/10/16 18:31pm]

[Edited 8/10/16 19:04pm]

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #26 posted 08/10/16 10:19pm

PeteSilas

i doubt it, why would a racist industry penalize her for saying what they already think? I never thought vanity was very bright and that didn't really surprise me when I saw it. I did think it was sad how she turned out, i saw her after many years on some christian program and I couldn't even recognize her, if I didn't know any better, i would doubt she was ever as beautiful as she once was. that business chews people like her up.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #27 posted 08/10/16 10:36pm

EmmaMcG

avatar

NouveauDance said:



EmmaMcG said:


I think her not actually being particularly talented might have something to do with why she didn't have much of a career. That, and the drugs.

Plenty of successful popstars aren't the best vocalists, that's not it. Vanity was a star because she had that spark in her, but I would guess her drug abuse and getting caught up in the lifestyle made her neglect her career or take it for granted.



Yeah, I'm not saying it's purely because she wasn't talented. What I meant was that had she been talented, the drugs issues wouldn't have necessarily been the end of her. Record executives and casting agents would be more forgiving if they were dealing with someone who could sing or act really well and make them a bit of money. But because she wasn't that good a singer or actress, they probably thought she's not worth the risk. Even people who were genuine box office draws like Jean-Claude Van Damme found out the hard way that movie producers won't take the risk of extra baggage.
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Reply #28 posted 08/10/16 10:38pm

morningsong

MichaelJackson5 said:

I was watching The Last Dragon today and recalled how beautiful Vanity was in the movie, a strikingly beautiful "black" woman. As a teen I had an immediate crush on her.



She had a decent hit with Nasty Girls and some RnB hits.







Then she hooked up with Nikki Sixx of Motley Crue and became a crackhead. Was that the beginning of her downfall as an artist and actress or was it what she said at 5:49 in this 1986 interview with Joan Rivers?









I seem to remember her making a similar comment around this time before. It involved her gorilla skinned coat, and she made a comment about her dad being black comparing him to a gorilla. I don't think I had abig reaction at that time, maybe it was the times and such statements weren't that unfamiliar, Don Rickles was popular then so a certain type of humor was too.
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Reply #29 posted 08/10/16 10:52pm

PeteSilas

EmmaMcG said:

NouveauDance said:

Plenty of successful popstars aren't the best vocalists, that's not it. Vanity was a star because she had that spark in her, but I would guess her drug abuse and getting caught up in the lifestyle made her neglect her career or take it for granted.

Yeah, I'm not saying it's purely because she wasn't talented. What I meant was that had she been talented, the drugs issues wouldn't have necessarily been the end of her. Record executives and casting agents would be more forgiving if they were dealing with someone who could sing or act really well and make them a bit of money. But because she wasn't that good a singer or actress, they probably thought she's not worth the risk. Even people who were genuine box office draws like Jean-Claude Van Damme found out the hard way that movie producers won't take the risk of extra baggage.

she seemed to get a couple big breaks, the last dragon and action jackson, after that she fell of the map.I recall her being friends with eddie murphy, her and her sister, her sister had a bit part in coming to america as the devil worshipper. Eddie, in those days, being quite the ladies man, sent one of his boys over to her to ask her for a dance or something, she said for him to come ask himself, he came over and said "how'd you get that chin, did you fall on the cement when you were a kid?"

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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