simm0061 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

The story of the bear is common news. It's talked about in Possessed:the Rise & Fall of Prince too.But I believe it happened later during the Parade tour.

Susannah left Prince later 86 early 87. She was performing with Lisa Wendy & their band after that. She was dating other people then.

SUSANNAH MELVOIN

Melvoin became Prince's first serious relationship, with the two eventually getting engaged in 1985.

She was a talented singer and songwriter in her own right, and after the two split she went on to work with singers including Madonna and dated John Cusack - just as Prince went on to date Madonna.

Yep, the poster might want to check his "source". She was with JC by late 80s.

And yeah, the beer story is common knowledge...although the versions change slightly depending on the writer. One version has Wendy saying that the local WY paper wrote that she was drinking a beer and chatting while chatting with Joni Mitchell at the bar (this is the version I believe). Other versions have her drinking in the lobby. In all versions he yelled at her for it and fined her like $500.

As far as I know, it has always been his policy that if you are in his band and you are out in public, you have to represent yourself accordingly - e.g. dress and act appropriately. Come to think of it...I've seen members of the NPG at shows in bars around town and I've actually never seen any of them with a drink in their hand.

I've had a few beers with Maceo over the years - in a quite spot after a show...but it has been known...in fact I recall having a beer with him whilst I was playing the slots before a 3121 performance

GhostChick said:

MadamGoodnightTwo said:

The people who took the journey from the BEGINNING, who did not hop on the Prince train with Purple Rain, have other ideas about it. You know, when Andre' and Gayle were still around. Some of my favorite Prince songs are songs where Lisa nor Wendy have anything to do with them. Period. They were before or after their time.

Were you a fan prior to Purple Rain? It was a process. Years in the making. A movement. I was there. Were you? The fans I knew and still know wanted a 1999 part 2 sound. That didn't happen. They got Purple Rain, ATWIAD, and Parade. I can speak on it, because I was there, I lived through it, experienced the shift. I would not group all that music together, because there was a definite shift, and change in sound.

No matter how many caps you use, we will not agree on this one. Just agree to disagree, and move on. You can quote me to eternity, my opinion will never change. I don't feel sentimental towards that time period (the three albums after 1999). No apologies. It was not golden to me, except for a few singles and B sides. Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999 SMOKED that period in my book (PR, ATWIAD, Parade). Even Prince with Sexy Dancer.

Have a nice Prince Day though.

[Edited 6/7/16 22:42pm]

I agree with you. I mean if even want to go to the beginning, beginning, when it was Andre and Jimmy Jam and Prince and later on the high school days when Morris got throw in the mix. I mean these guys were Funk and R&B at the time and some Rock.

Interesting enough, in the 80's while Prince was doing Parade/SOTT/Lovesexy; shoot Andre and Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis were 3 of the hottest Music Producers in the R&B and Pop world!

maybe without knowing it though. Prince doing ATWIAD PARADE SOTT/LOVESEXY traversed the times and solidified him as an artist in a way that a lot of what JJ & TL were doing did not outside of Janet Jackson and a few other songs.

GhostChick said:

jaawwnn said:

I think there's a lot to be said for Prince's mindset at that point. From all i've read W&L wanted to take the Parade style of music further but Prince was starting to feel the flack and pressure about leaving the R'n'B audience behind, he wanted to move towards the black album and a, well, blacker sound in general.

The rest of the Revolution seemed happy enough to follow whatever Prince's lead was musically but W&L had more compositional and thematical ideas they wanted to explore/express. Add all the personal stuff and i'd say firing them seemed like the best option from his perspective.

It's a real shame but sure what can you do.

I am so sick and tired of people making it seem like Black people weren't feeling Prince or that Prince was "moving away" from his Black audience.

First off, MOST Black people loved Prince during that time period, PERIOD. Urban or "black" music stations played the hell out of a lot of songs that perhaps the mainstream didn't play. The Beautiful Ones was a staple on the "quiet storm" format. Urban stations played Pop Life on repeat ALL THE TIME and Kiss.

You know, i'm not actually making any wild claims for the entire of black america or black radio, but the Beautiful Ones and Pop Life and Kiss are the most R'n'B songs on these albums and stand out for it as well.

And you can pretty much ask any Black fan if they are going to a concert and ask them what song they want to hear Prince do live and 98% of the time, they are going to say "Adore". Some may even say Pink Cashmere.

Ummm, is this you agreeing with me? That was kind of my point. Like I said, when he left W&L behind he wrote Adore. I'm not sure it would have sounded like it does with them, case in point: Strange Relationship.

Mainstream media and radio and music didn't give two f**** about what the Black audience (and their money) was into during the 80's. They didn't care or pay attention to the fact that Black audiences were supporting Prince (or Micheal Jackson). Prince had crossover, was mainstream and was the biggest Pop or Rock star on the planet at that time.

Prince always wanted to continue to do R&B, Funk, Soul during that time. He just didn't want people to label him in a box. But he never wanted to leave that music behind.

I agree with you, but I am under the impression that people were telling him that he was leaving it behind, even if he really wasn't. LIKE I SAID, before & after W&L still sounds like Prince, they just added a particular flavour to his sound.

I find the whole Black and White people appropriating Prince's music paradoxical

-

Having lived in the US but being from the UK, it was always weird to have "black" radio stations and "white" radio stations

-

Fortunately in the UK, there isn't such a racial distinction in music stations

-

But wasn't the point of Prince's music that he didn't want to be heard as a "black" artist or wannabe "white" artist

-

Rather that he wanted a universal audience through creating music with a wide range of a musical colour palette?

-

Possibly that is why Europe embraced him so much?

-

I think he resented being defined by racial definitions - Prince you are trying to be white rock...Prince you are deserting your black R&B roots...

-

Is this not part of the reason he recorded the "Black" album, as a "hey, if you want me to be black...here is me being black"

-

Which he then pulled and made a orchestration heavy "Lovesexy" album which again was impossible to say was either a "black" or "white" audience record

-

As epitomised by 12" "I wish U heaven" which veered from pop-to-rock-to-funk-to-gospel...all in one musical 12" opus

-

He set his non-racial message out in 1982 "Am I black or white?"....

-

To me Prince wanted to be universal and colourful...something that Wendy & Lisa provided him to balance out the black collaborators he had surrounded himself with prior to their introduction.

Connected said:

Connected said:

I find the whole Black and White people appropriating Prince's music paradoxical

-

Having lived in the US but being from the UK, it was always weird to have "black" radio stations and "white" radio stations

-

Fortunately in the UK, there isn't such a racial distinction in music stations

-

But wasn't the point of Prince's music that he didn't want to be heard as a "black" artist or wannabe "white" artist

-

Rather that he wanted a universal audience through creating music with a wide range of a musical colour palette?

-

Possibly that is why Europe embraced him so much?

-

I think he resented being defined by racial definitions - Prince you are trying to be white rock...Prince you are deserting your black R&B roots...

-

Is this not part of the reason he recorded the "Black" album, as a "hey, if you want me to be black...here is me being black"

-

Which he then pulled and made a orchestration heavy "Lovesexy" album which again was impossible to say was either a "black" or "white" audience record

-

As epitomised by 12" "I wish U heaven" which veered from pop-to-rock-to-funk-to-gospel...all in one musical 12" opus

-

He set his non-racial message out in 1982 "Am I black or white?"....

-

To me Prince wanted to be universal and colourful...something that Wendy & Lisa provided him to balance out the black collaborators he had surrounded himself with prior to their introduction.

I agree (as an American) with this post. People try to dissect Prince and his music and catagorize it. But that is never what Prince was about.

I will say technically the Black album was about proving he was FUNKY. People said somewhere starting in 1985 onward he wasn't funky anymore and it kept getting thrown in his face. I wish he would not have listened to people. I changed those who scene of Paisley Park/Uptown in 1986

^

I was following Prince at that time but not as hardcore

-

Who was saying that Prince wasn't funky in 85? ATWIAD?

-

America was grounbreaking funk...21mins vinyl?

-

Nothing more needs to be said!

-

Tell me who dissed that in 85...and I will go and knock on their door with a copy!!!!

-

On the Black Album...please OF4S...you are far more versed with this

-

So i thought, Prince was getting nonsense for not being Black enough

-

Now you say "Funky"

-

But in the US... in fairness globally... is "Funk" not synonymous with "Black" music, such as "R&B"?

-

I appreciate I am splitting hairs here... and no offence to anyone is intended

-

I just wish (as a man from the UK), what is the difference?

Connected said:

^

I was following Prince at that time but not as hardcore

-

Who was saying that Prince wasn't funky in 85? ATWIAD?

-

America was grounbreaking funk...21mins vinyl?

-

Nothing more needs to be said!

-

Tell me who dissed that in 85...and I will go and knock on their door with a copy!!!!

-

On the Black Album...please OF4S...you are far more versed with this

-

So i thought, Prince was getting nonsense for not being Black enough

-

Now you say "Funky"

-

But in the US... in fairness globally... is "Funk" not synonymous with "Black" music, such as "R&B"?

-

I appreciate I am splitting hairs here... and no offence to anyone is intended

-

I just wish (as a man from the UK), what is the difference?

You know, I only know what i've read about it rather than any direct resources. I can't find anything from print back then talking about this except in retrospect. You'd probably have to go back and listen to a load of tapes from the radio to gauge the general feelings at the time. Maybe the idea that anyone thought he had abandoned his black audience is a complete fabrication? I find that hard to believe because it's so prevalent but I dunno...

[Edited 6/23/16 1:46am]

jaawwnn said:

Connected said:

^

I was following Prince at that time but not as hardcore

-

Who was saying that Prince wasn't funky in 85? ATWIAD?

-

America was grounbreaking funk...21mins vinyl?

-

Nothing more needs to be said!

-

Tell me who dissed that in 85...and I will go and knock on their door with a copy!!!!

-

On the Black Album...please OF4S...you are far more versed with this

-

So i thought, Prince was getting nonsense for not being Black enough

-

Now you say "Funky"

-

But in the US... in fairness globally... is "Funk" not synonymous with "Black" music, such as "R&B"?

-

I appreciate I am splitting hairs here... and no offence to anyone is intended

-

I just wish (as a man from the UK), what is the difference?

You know, I only know what i've read about it rather than any direct resources. I can't find anything from print back then talking about this except in retrospect. You'd probably have to go back and listen to a load of tapes from the radio to gauge the general feelings at the time. Maybe the idea that anyone thought he had abandoned his black audience is a complete fabrication? I find that hard to believe because it's so prevalent but I dunno...

[Edited 6/23/16 1:46am]

now that I think about it, I do believe in some ways it did come out as 'abandoning a black audience'
I hate those stereotypes, because Purple Rain gained a whole new 'black audience' 'so did Parade'

The people who felt he did, just wanted Prince to do the:Let's Work, Head, DMSR, and probably didn't appreciate the Sexuality, All the Critics Love U in NY, Bambi's

Connected said:

^

I was following Prince at that time but not as hardcore

-

Who was saying that Prince wasn't funky in 85? ATWIAD?

-

America was grounbreaking funk...21mins vinyl?

-

Nothing more needs to be said!

-

Tell me who dissed that in 85...and I will go and knock on their door with a copy!!!!

-

On the Black Album...please OF4S...you are far more versed with this

-

So i thought, Prince was getting nonsense for not being Black enough

-

Now you say "Funky"

-

But in the US... in fairness globally... is "Funk" not synonymous with "Black" music, such as "R&B"?

-

I appreciate I am splitting hairs here... and no offence to anyone is intended

-

I just wish (as a man from the UK), what is the difference?

Prince did no interviews between 1987-1989 so we don't have words from him about this stuff.
I'll pull up pre 1987 and post 1990 stuff that might shed some light on the black hand side and the funk stuff.

Camille set out to silence his critics.
"No longer daring" - his enemies laughed.
"No longer glam, his funk is half-assed...
one leg is much shorter
than the other one is weak.
His strokes are tepid,
his colors are meek."

So Camille found a new color.

The color black:
strongest hue of them all.
He painted a picture
called Le Grind --
hittin' so tall.
And then Cindy C --
THE vogue fantasy.
Horns & vocals 2 die 4.
Lollipops -- in yours!

Stroke after stroke callin' all others a joke.
Superfunkycalifragisexi.

Camille rocked hard in a funky place.

Stuck his long funk in competition's face.

Tuesday came. Blue Tuesday.
His canvas full, and lying on the table,

Camille mustered
all the hate that he was able.

Hate 4 the ones who ever doubted his game.

Hate 4 the ones who ever doubted his name.

"Tis nobody funkier -- let the Black Album fly."

[Edited 6/23/16 6:19am]

THE PRINCE INTERVIEW
Mr. Purple Discusses His Movies, His Music, His Musicians And More, More, More.

Interviewed by Michael Shore
Rock & Soul, April 1986

Someone in Minneapolis recently told us that several months ago they were in a studio there when David Rifkin, your sound engineer, walked in. They asked him what he thought of the new Prince album, Around The World In A Day. He said, "It's great, but wait 'til you hear the new album." Apparently, he meant you're already working on a new LP, and that this one would be a strong return to your funk roots. Is this true? Can you elaborate? What will it be called? When will it be due out, and what's the music like?

Don't you like surprises? Guess not. Ah, it is true I record very fast. It goes even quicker now that the girls help me -- the girls, meaning Wendy and Lisa. I don't really think I left my funk roots anywhere along the line. Around The World In A Day is a funky album. Live it's even funkier.

Speaking of brothers, some have criticized you for selling out to the white rock audience with Purple Rain, and leaving your black listeners behind. How do you respond to that?

Oh, come on, come on! Okay, let's be frank. Can we be frank? If we can't do nothing else, we might as well be frank. Seriously, I was brought up in a black-and-white world and, yes, black and white, night and day, rich and poor. I listened to all kinds of music when I was young, and when I was younger, I always said that one day I would play all kinds of music and not be judged for the color of my skin but the quality of my work, and hopefully I will continue. There are a lot of people out there that understand this, 'cause they support me and my habits, and I support them and theirs.

Good find!

ROLLING STONE (1985)

BY NEAL KARLEN

Not long ago I talked too George Clinton, a man who knows and has done so much for funk. George told me how much he liked Around the World in a Day. You know how much more his words meant than those from some mamma-jamma wearing glasses and an alligator shirt behind a typewriter?

jaawwnn said:

Good find!

there is an earlier one like maybe 1980 where he was replying to a similar comment, and Prince replies: come on now they knew it was coming, it was on For You and Prince refering to rock music and other music styles

Linn4days said:

SPYZFAN1 said:

"Miko...arguably his best funkiest rhythm guitarist"...........Yup! I've been listening to the "Parade" era boots and he is killing it on guitar.

Yes.

When Prince orders, "Miko! Funk on top of the groove" He does it. He is one of the best funk players to me...

What he added to "When Doves Cry" ...Wow... He added something to nearly everything I've heard him play on..

I stopped listening to the actual release--after listening to the Tokyo version...

I'm just a funk fan...

[Edited 6/18/16 23:29pm]

best live version

OldFriends4Sale said:

THE PRINCE INTERVIEW
Mr. Purple Discusses His Movies, His Music, His Musicians And More, More, More.

Interviewed by Michael Shore
Rock & Soul, April 1986

Someone in Minneapolis recently told us that several months ago they were in a studio there when David Rifkin, your sound engineer, walked in. They asked him what he thought of the new Prince album, Around The World In A Day. He said, "It's great, but wait 'til you hear the new album." Apparently, he meant you're already working on a new LP, and that this one would be a strong return to your funk roots. Is this true? Can you elaborate? What will it be called? When will it be due out, and what's the music like?

Don't you like surprises? Guess not. Ah, it is true I record very fast. It goes even quicker now that the girls help me -- the girls, meaning Wendy and Lisa. I don't really think I left my funk roots anywhere along the line. Around The World In A Day is a funky album. Live it's even funkier.

Speaking of brothers, some have criticized you for selling out to the white rock audience with Purple Rain, and leaving your black listeners behind. How do you respond to that?

Oh, come on, come on! Okay, let's be frank. Can we be frank? If we can't do nothing else, we might as well be frank. Seriously, I was brought up in a black-and-white world and, yes, black and white, night and day, rich and poor. I listened to all kinds of music when I was young, and when I was younger, I always said that one day I would play all kinds of music and not be judged for the color of my skin but the quality of my work, and hopefully I will continue. There are a lot of people out there that understand this, 'cause they support me and my habits, and I support them and theirs.

I bow to you OF4S...this is spot on.

-

I have this interview somewhere, (not visited it in a loooong time) and it is everything I believe about Prince

-

Cracking post

Connected said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

THE PRINCE INTERVIEW
Mr. Purple Discusses His Movies, His Music, His Musicians And More, More, More.

Interviewed by Michael Shore
Rock & Soul, April 1986

Someone in Minneapolis recently told us that several months ago they were in a studio there when David Rifkin, your sound engineer, walked in. They asked him what he thought of the new Prince album, Around The World In A Day. He said, "It's great, but wait 'til you hear the new album." Apparently, he meant you're already working on a new LP, and that this one would be a strong return to your funk roots. Is this true? Can you elaborate? What will it be called? When will it be due out, and what's the music like?

Don't you like surprises? Guess not. Ah, it is true I record very fast. It goes even quicker now that the girls help me -- the girls, meaning Wendy and Lisa. I don't really think I left my funk roots anywhere along the line. Around The World In A Day is a funky album. Live it's even funkier.

Speaking of brothers, some have criticized you for selling out to the white rock audience with Purple Rain, and leaving your black listeners behind. How do you respond to that?

Oh, come on, come on! Okay, let's be frank. Can we be frank? If we can't do nothing else, we might as well be frank. Seriously, I was brought up in a black-and-white world and, yes, black and white, night and day, rich and poor. I listened to all kinds of music when I was young, and when I was younger, I always said that one day I would play all kinds of music and not be judged for the color of my skin but the quality of my work, and hopefully I will continue. There are a lot of people out there that understand this, 'cause they support me and my habits, and I support them and theirs.

I bow to you OF4S...this is spot on.

-

I have this interview somewhere, (not visited it in a loooong time) and it is everything I believe about Prince

-

Cracking post

those 1985/86 interview were the BEST to get 2 know Prince

OldFriends4Sale said:

jaawwnn said:

You know, I only know what i've read about it rather than any direct resources. I can't find anything from print back then talking about this except in retrospect. You'd probably have to go back and listen to a load of tapes from the radio to gauge the general feelings at the time. Maybe the idea that anyone thought he had abandoned his black audience is a complete fabrication? I find that hard to believe because it's so prevalent but I dunno...

[Edited 6/23/16 1:46am]

now that I think about it, I do believe in some ways it did come out as 'abandoning a black audience'
I hate those stereotypes, because Purple Rain gained a whole new 'black audience' 'so did Parade'

The people who felt he did, just wanted Prince to do the:Let's Work, Head, DMSR, and probably didn't appreciate the Sexuality, All the Critics Love U in NY, Bambi's

Some of these "critics" and fans that did this were just haters trying to box Prince in. They were not as familiar with Black audiences and their tastes so they were just making assumptions.

Again, Black fans were with Prince since the days of Soft and Wet. Pretty much everybody liked Purple Rain. It was like Thriller and even Born in the USA. I knew Black people that loved that album and 80's Genesis.

People, all colors like the "big hits". Not all fans that liked the Confessions album by Usher were Usher fans or R&B fans, but they like that album because it was full of hits.

Same with Prince. I wish people would stop using Purple Rain as the barometer. I know that's when things shifted but I think it's amazing that the same person who could do "Little Red Corvetter" and "Cream" was also the same person who could do "Soft and Wet" and "Breakfast Can Wait" and "Adore" and "kiss".

Susan Rogers:

...I think with Sign O’ The Times Prince was aware–and he said this often, so I’m not reading into things–that his black audience was drifting away from him. After Around The World In A Day and Under The Cherry Moon, the music was less rooted in R&B and less rooted in funk and even pop styles that Sly Stone had familiarized us with, it had less of that, so Prince was making a conscious effort with Sign O’ The Times to win back some of his original audience.
http://daddyrockstar.tumblr.com/post/43885486088/susan-rogers-on-princes-sign-o-the-times-part

WhisperingDandelions said:

Susan Rogers:

...I think with Sign O’ The Times Prince was aware–and he said this often, so I’m not reading into things–that his black audience was drifting away from him. After Around The World In A Day and Under The Cherry Moon, the music was less rooted in R&B and less rooted in funk and even pop styles that Sly Stone had familiarized us with, it had less of that, so Prince was making a conscious effort with Sign O’ The Times to win back some of his original audience.
http://daddyrockstar.tumblr.com/post/43885486088/susan-rogers-on-princes-sign-o-the-times-part

Thanks
Yes I remember reading that.

Sad.
The people that were on the journey with him as an artist stayed on the journey.
He should have never let anyone influence him to make changes based on that.

It's kind of a Catch 22 with the black/white thing. If Prince's "blackness" wasnt a big deal to him, then why did he remove The Time from certain dates on the 1999 tour? Because they were upstaging him...in the eyes of the "brothas". I've said it before and I'll say it again...every "brotha" I've spoken to that went to the 1999 show said the same thing: "The Time made Prince look stupid." Why? Because The Time's show was rooted in funk and cool, Prince's show was everything...which is cool, but in the eye of some brothas...not so much. He definitely lost a lot of his black audience from 1984 on, and it bothered him to no end. Remember the Purple Rain shows, when he tried to get the dog bark going, and paused to ask, "Is this Detroit?!" when he didnt get the response he was looking for?

[Edited 6/27/16 18:51pm]

UncleJam said:

It's kind of a Catch 22 with the black/white thing. If Prince's "blackness" wasnt a big deal to him, then why did he remove The Time from certain dates on the 1999 tour? Because they were upstaging him...in the eyes of the "brothas". I've said it before and I'll say it again...every "brotha" I've spoken to that went to the 1999 show said the same thing: "The Time made Prince look stupid." Why? Because The Time's show was rooted in funk and cool, Prince's show was everything...which is cool, but in the eye of some brothas...not so much. He definitely lost a lot of his black audience from 1984 on, and it bothered him to no end. Remember the Purple Rain shows, when he tried to get the dog bark going, and paused to ask, "Is this Detroit?!" when he didnt get the response he was looking for?

[Edited 6/27/16 18:51pm]

And he was upstaging Rick James.

It could have been upstaging in the eyes of the brothas, but it could have been an assumed upstage in general. The Times show was straight forward as Funk. And that might be easier for a lot of people to deal with than a lot of differen styles in 1 set.

In the long run, it was better for Prince, than for the Time. They didn't branch out with style of message. But Prince, that 1978-1988 period was so diverse it that it solidified him as a musical genius.

If Prince just stuck to a type or genre there is no way he would have been the superstar he is.

But hate that people brought this stuff up to him.

Prince on Joni Mitchell

"bloods were screaming at the top of their lungs for Prince-funk like "Erotic City", "Lady Cab Driver" and "Irresistible Bitch"....."however he seemed to sense it, he seemed to know that his audience that night was not feeding back to him...and during the end of the solo he began screaming and cursing at the crowd, the rage clearly evident on hs face"...RECORD Magazine..1985