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Thread started 06/05/16 7:20am

rookparade

Question on Lisa and Wendy

For the longtime orgers: what's the prevailing sentiment on Wendy and Lisa's departure? I've seen several accountings of this, one of the most common that they were fired as Prince wanted to go in another direction, and the other that they quit due to feeling their contributions weren't taken seriously anymore. Just curious. Obviously it was 30 years ago and everyone moved on, but just wondering what actually took place. Thanks.
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Reply #1 posted 06/05/16 8:02am

databank

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rookparade said:

For the longtime orgers: what's the prevailing sentiment on Wendy and Lisa's departure? I've seen several accountings of this, one of the most common that they were fired as Prince wanted to go in another direction, and the other that they quit due to feeling their contributions weren't taken seriously anymore. Just curious. Obviously it was 30 years ago and everyone moved on, but just wondering what actually took place. Thanks.

They wanted to quit.

Prince convinced them to stay.

Some months later Prince fired them.

End of story.

Read books such as Per Nislen's DMSR or Alex Hahn's Possessed, those events have been covered to death by biographers.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #2 posted 06/05/16 8:27am

TrivialPursuit

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databank said:

They wanted to quit.

Prince convinced them to stay.

Some months later Prince fired them.

End of story.

Read books such as Per Nislen's DMSR or Alex Hahn's Possessed, those events have been covered to death by biographers.


Agreed. It's been laid out quite well. The end of the Revolution was eminent.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
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Reply #3 posted 06/05/16 8:39am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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rookparade said:

For the longtime orgers: what's the prevailing sentiment on Wendy and Lisa's departure? I've seen several accountings of this, one of the most common that they were fired as Prince wanted to go in another direction, and the other that they quit due to feeling their contributions weren't taken seriously anymore. Just curious. Obviously it was 30 years ago and everyone moved on, but just wondering what actually took place. Thanks.

Prince broke it up because he had a hard time balancing business and emotional relations. He talked about it in a 1990 interview.

1990 Interview

There is still some residue of emotional pain. "What if everybody around me split?" he asks. "Then I'd be left with only me, and I'd have to fend for me. That's why I have to protect me."

Prince's detractors might diagnose these words as the classic pathology of a control freak. His high-minded supporters might say those are normal protective feelings for somebody who was kicked onto the streets by his beloved father at age fourteen.

"I'm playing the bad guy," says Prince, "but I didn't fire Jimmy and Terry. Morris asked me what I would do in his situation. Remember, it was his band."

The Time, Prince says, is proof of the good that can come from a group dissolving and eventually coming back together. "They broke up because they'd run out of ideas," he says. "They went off and did their own thing, and now they're terrifying."

Prince said this formula was just what he had in mind when, in short order, he broke up the Revolution. "I felt we all needed to grow," he says. "We all needed to play a wide range of music with different types of people. Then we could come back eight times as strong.


The breakup of the Revolution apparently didn't go down easy. Today, Prince's relationship with his onetime best friends Wendy Melvoin and Lisa Coleman is somewhere between uncomfortable and estranged. "I talk to Wendy and Lisa, but it's like this," Prince says, moving his hands in opposite directions. "I still hear a lot of hurt from them, and that bothers me. When I knew them, they were two spunky, wonderful human beings. I honestly don't know what they're hurt about."

"I don't know what Wendy and Lisa are so hurt about. I wish I did, but I don't."

When he created/destroyed the song called WALLY that represented him trying to deal and purge himself of the feelings he had for Wendy Susannah Lisa and probably that whole previous time period -that he called a community in a 1999 interview

One evening shortly after Sussanah's departure, Susan Rogers could tell something was very wrong when Prince came down to the basement studio. Looking disconsolate and barely speaking, he began constructing a song around a meloncholy piano pattern. His spoken lyrics portrayed a fictional dialogue between himself and Wally Safford, a dancer in the band. Sounding sad and lost, Prince asks Wally to borrow $50 and some sunglasses so he can impress his lover, but then changes his mind and returns the items telling Wally that since he is alone now, he has no one to spend the money on. Prince was accompanied only by piano throught the verse, but guitar bass and drums enter as the song built to a chorus on which he sings the phrase "o-ma-la-di-da"


Watching Prince construct the song which he called "Wally", Rogers was stunned by the honest emotion and wistfull resignation it conveyed. She saw the song both as a farewell to Susannah and a means of expelling the poison of failed relationship.

"Do you know that malady means sickness, illness in French?" Prince asked Rogers. Refering to the phrase he sings in the chorus. "It's almost like the word melody, isn't it?" Prince who rarely exposed his inner feelings, even in his music, was groping for a metaphor that would convey his feeling of loss. Rogers felt it was a turning point in his songwriting.

But as the session continued, Prince started to distance himself from the creation. He added extraneous instruments to diminished the songs clarity. A percussion part that cluttered the verse, detracting from the lyrics.

Don't you think it was better before, Prince?" Rogers said. "Maybe we should stop"
He ignored her, adding the synthizer riff. Soon it became clear to her: He was intentionally destroying the song. After larding the piece with additional instruments, he finally spoke. "Now put all 24 Channels on record and erase it." he told Rogers

No, you can't do this!" Rogers said dismayed by the prospect of losing the statement at the core of the song.

If you don't I will," Prince responded
Rogers stood her ground, and Prince was forced to operate the soundboard himself, as he destroyed his own music.

"Wally" like his relationship with Susannah, Wendy & Lisa involved more emotional intensity than Prince was willing to accept. "I thought it was the greatest thing he had ever done" says Rogers. I had waited years to hear a Prince song like this. I ached for him to be this honest.

Yet Princes refusal to explore his feelings was not altogether surprising. Rogers had discussed the topic of depression with him and found Prince contemptuous of the notion.
"He thought it was practically a sin to be depressed" she remembered. Many other associates have observed that Prince -not only in his relationships, but even in his music -is cryptic and unrevealing of his deepest feelings. "His music is very passionate, but he doesn't let himself open up emotionally" observed Marylou Badeaux. "And look at the way he's dealt with women in his life- he's not able to get emotional. He just keeps it on the level of sex play."

Though Susannah has never formally been a part of the Revolution, her personal and creative influence on Prince from 1983 to 1986 rivaled that of Wendy & Lisa. With her exit from the scene, the Revolution period ended irrevocably. The epitaph of this time would be "Wally", a song no one would hear.

And of course the song dedicated to them in 1997 In This Bed I Scream he's dealing with reconciling those emotions from then.

2 these walls I talk
Tellin' 'em what I wasn't strong enough 2 say
2 these walls I talk
Tellin' 'em how I cried the day U went away

How did we ever lose communication?
How did we ever lose each other's sound?
Baby, if U wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

Yeah

In this bed I scream
Lonely nights I lay awake thinking of U
And if I'm cursed with a dream
A thousand times I feel whatever I've put U through

Tell me, how're we gonna put this back 2gether?
How're we gonna think with the same mind?
Knowing all along that life is so much better
Living and loving 2gether all the time

Living and loving

In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream

In this car I drive
I'm looking 4 the road that leads back 2 the soul we shared
With my very life
I'd gladly be the body upon the cross we bear (Cross we bear)

How did we ever lose communication? (How did we?)
How did we ever lose each other's sound? (I don't know)
Baby, if U wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

Maybe we can't, maybe we can
Stop the rain, stop the rain

In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream
I scream

In this bed I scream



The breakup was an emotional one expressed through a business break.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #4 posted 06/05/16 8:48am

geetee71

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databank said:

rookparade said:

For the longtime orgers: what's the prevailing sentiment on Wendy and Lisa's departure? I've seen several accountings of this, one of the most common that they were fired as Prince wanted to go in another direction, and the other that they quit due to feeling their contributions weren't taken seriously anymore. Just curious. Obviously it was 30 years ago and everyone moved on, but just wondering what actually took place. Thanks.

They wanted to quit.

Prince convinced them to stay.

Some months later Prince fired them.

End of story.

Read books such as Per Nislen's DMSR or Alex Hahn's Possessed, those events have been covered to death by biographers.

.

Yeah, pretty much what databank said:

.

W&L wanted to quit - due to feeling their contributions weren't taken seriously anymore.

Prince convinced them to stay - my take on this is P didn't want anyone else to be calling the shots with such a huge decision related to his band.

Some months later Prince fired them - Once W&L had shown their 'disloyalty' P was hurt and felt he couldn't trust them anymore, so this was his retaliation. He could also appear to take back control of the situation and frame it by saying he wanted to go in another direction.

.

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Reply #5 posted 06/05/16 9:53am

TrivialPursuit

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The thing is, why was W&L wanting to leave so soon after Wendy joined? She finally joined the band in 1983, having been around since 1980. Then, by 1985ish, they were already feeling disjointed? What the heck happened in those two years? They were going to leave, and Bobby Z caught them at the airport and convinced them to come back. They were brought back for the Parade project, and I can see why Prince wanted to do that so badly.


Purple Rain, ATWIAD, Parade is really a trilogy - a three year segment that needed commitment. He even said that to Dez in 1982/3. He knew Dez wanted to leave, and said (in so many words), "I'm going to need you for the next 3 years. If you can't stay, I understand, but you need to go now if that's the case".

Hell, The Revolution hadn't even absorbed The Family members yet (which Wendy hated - namely that Jerome, Greg, & Wally were just distractions; plus Mark was resentful of being put behind those three jokers, asI would have been). The Colemans and Melvoins were highly involved in ATWIAD (albeit that was recorded mostly during the Purple Rain Tour). So what was the big distrupt by the end of 1985 or early 1986, that W&L was already wanting to leave?


While fans wanted more Revolution stuff, there's something kind of poetic and magical about them only having a triad of albums.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #6 posted 06/05/16 10:25am

keenly

rookparade said:

For the longtime orgers: what's the prevailing sentiment on Wendy and Lisa's departure? I've seen several accountings of this, one of the most common that they were fired as Prince wanted to go in another direction, and the other that they quit due to feeling their contributions weren't taken seriously anymore. Just curious. Obviously it was 30 years ago and everyone moved on, but just wondering what actually took place. Thanks.

They were fired.

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Reply #7 posted 06/05/16 10:30am

wavesofbliss

TrivialPursuit said:
Hell, The Revolution hadn't even absorbed The Family members yet (which Wendy hated - namely that Jerome, Greg, & Wally were just distractions; plus Mark was resentful of being put behind those three jokers, asI would have been). The Colemans and Melvoins were highly involved in ATWIAD (albeit that was recorded mostly during the Purple Rain Tour). So what was the big distrupt by the end of 1985 or early 1986, that W&L was already wanting to leave?

i think you said here yourself. they wanted it to be prince and coleman/melvion families, Prince wanted his own thing back. He started to distance himself by adding the dancing bears and horns. that pissed Wendy off even more. according to lisa, "we were all in love with each other then", meaning P&S and W&L, and at the best of times that situation becomes untenable. a total mess. Mark said he and Matt were asked to stay but that he was ready to move on. all things considered,it's clear that p and his associates had NO boundaries back then. P would create chaos and then sneak out the side exit and then wonder why people felt hard done by. 1/2 bratty trickster,1/2 scared child

Prince #MUSICIANICONLEGEND
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Reply #8 posted 06/05/16 10:31am

PurpleMusic07

TrivialPursuit said:

The thing is, why was W&L wanting to leave so soon after Wendy joined? She finally joined the band in 1983, having been around since 1980. Then, by 1985ish, they were already feeling disjointed? What the heck happened in those two years? They were going to leave, and Bobby Z caught them at the airport and convinced them to come back. They were brought back for the Parade project, and I can see why Prince wanted to do that so badly.



Purple Rain, ATWIAD, Parade is really a trilogy - a three year segment that needed commitment. He even said that to Dez in 1982/3. He knew Dez wanted to leave, and said (in so many words), "I'm going to need you for the next 3 years. If you can't stay, I understand, but you need to go now if that's the case".

Hell, The Revolution hadn't even absorbed The Family members yet (which Wendy hated - namely that Jerome, Greg, & Wally were just distractions; plus Mark was resentful of being put behind those three jokers, asI would have been). The Colemans and Melvoins were highly involved in ATWIAD (albeit that was recorded mostly during the Purple Rain Tour). So what was the big distrupt by the end of 1985 or early 1986, that W&L was already wanting to leave?



While fans wanted more Revolution stuff, there's something kind of poetic and magical about them only having a triad of albums.


Just to clarify I think the airplane episode happened DURING the Parade tour, not before the album had even been done.
"Where you are now is in a place that does not require time." - Rest In Power, PRINCE
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Reply #9 posted 06/05/16 10:34am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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PurpleMusic07 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

The thing is, why was W&L wanting to leave so soon after Wendy joined? She finally joined the band in 1983, having been around since 1980. Then, by 1985ish, they were already feeling disjointed? What the heck happened in those two years? They were going to leave, and Bobby Z caught them at the airport and convinced them to come back. They were brought back for the Parade project, and I can see why Prince wanted to do that so badly.


Purple Rain, ATWIAD, Parade is really a trilogy - a three year segment that needed commitment. He even said that to Dez in 1982/3. He knew Dez wanted to leave, and said (in so many words), "I'm going to need you for the next 3 years. If you can't stay, I understand, but you need to go now if that's the case".

Hell, The Revolution hadn't even absorbed The Family members yet (which Wendy hated - namely that Jerome, Greg, & Wally were just distractions; plus Mark was resentful of being put behind those three jokers, asI would have been). The Colemans and Melvoins were highly involved in ATWIAD (albeit that was recorded mostly during the Purple Rain Tour). So what was the big distrupt by the end of 1985 or early 1986, that W&L was already wanting to leave?


While fans wanted more Revolution stuff, there's something kind of poetic and magical about them only having a triad of albums.

Just to clarify I think the airplane episode happened DURING the Parade tour, not before the album had even been done.

Right I believe it was right before the Japan leg of the Parade tour

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #10 posted 06/05/16 10:43am

duggalolly

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TrivialPursuit said:

The thing is, why was W&L wanting to leave so soon after Wendy joined? She finally joined the band in 1983, having been around since 1980. Then, by 1985ish, they were already feeling disjointed? What the heck happened in those two years? They were going to leave, and Bobby Z caught them at the airport and convinced them to come back. They were brought back for the Parade project, and I can see why Prince wanted to do that so badly.

Based on what I've read (I think it was in the Possessed book, but it's been ages since I've read it), my understanding of it was that they wanted to leave sometime after Parade came out, maybe even after some of the hit & run shows, but before the start of the Europe/Japan tour. Prince convinced them to stay for the purposes of doing the tour (it would've looked bad if there had been a tour for a Prince and the Revolution album that didn't have 2 of the key members). Then he fired them after the tour.

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Reply #11 posted 06/05/16 10:52am

injuredpinky

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OldFriends4Sale said:

rookparade said:

For the longtime orgers: what's the prevailing sentiment on Wendy and Lisa's departure? I've seen several accountings of this, one of the most common that they were fired as Prince wanted to go in another direction, and the other that they quit due to feeling their contributions weren't taken seriously anymore. Just curious. Obviously it was 30 years ago and everyone moved on, but just wondering what actually took place. Thanks.

...

And of course the song dedicated to them in 1997 In This Bed I Scream he's dealing with reconciling those emotions from then.

...

Never knew that song was about them. "En-lightning "

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Reply #12 posted 06/05/16 10:58am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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wavesofbliss said:

TrivialPursuit said:
Hell, The Revolution hadn't even absorbed The Family members yet (which Wendy hated - namely that Jerome, Greg, & Wally were just distractions; plus Mark was resentful of being put behind those three jokers, asI would have been). The Colemans and Melvoins were highly involved in ATWIAD (albeit that was recorded mostly during the Purple Rain Tour). So what was the big distrupt by the end of 1985 or early 1986, that W&L was already wanting to leave?

i think you said here yourself. they wanted it to be prince and coleman/melvion families, Prince wanted his own thing back. He started to distance himself by adding the dancing bears and horns. that pissed Wendy off even more. according to lisa, "we were all in love with each other then", meaning P&S and W&L, and at the best of times that situation becomes untenable. a total mess. Mark said he and Matt were asked to stay but that he was ready to move on. all things considered,it's clear that p and his associates had NO boundaries back then. P would create chaos and then sneak out the side exit and then wonder why people felt hard done by. 1/2 bratty trickster,1/2 scared child

Well Susannah was a Melvoin too and she was brought into the band. So I don't think it was that he was trying to put distance in the band. As far as the recordings and jam sessions that was still the core Revolution with Eric Leeds Atlanta Bliss.

(they had no problem with the horns) They had no problem with Atlanta & Eric.
I've listened to some rehearsals and the dancers brought a level of clowning that I even found irritating. I always feel irked when I watch Parade era shows and see BrownMark in the distance behind Wally Gregory & Jerome.

Prince added all those members because he wanted to try to hold on to them after St Paul left the Family. All but Atlanta was not a part of the Family band. not to mention there was Jonathon Melvoin as the Family keyboardist. as well as

Mico Weaver (guitar)

Alan Flowers (bass)

Billy Carruthers (keyboards)

Jellybean took off, he fired Jerome for working with Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis. And after the SOTT got rid of Wally & Gregory.

But you have a good accessment of it. Prince created a literal family during the 1983-1986 period. He called it a community. He was friends with David Coleman and Jonathon Melvoin(and doing work with Prince). As well as the Melvoins father, the were all good with Princes father. David Z Bobby Z Bobby's wife as an assistant. the assistants to the bandmembers like Karen K, the engineers, Eric & Alan Leeds etc If we look at the full picture thas truly a family affair people who were friends pre-Prince including Sheila E & Miko as well as Sheila & Juan Escovedo etc Prince wanted Susannah in his big tall wall (reminds me of his Susan Moonsie -PrivateJoy) and have her as is main, even being engaged and have her living with him. But wanted to be wild & loose too. Sheila was having her turmoil too. People saw this stuff, Prince wasn't mature enough to handle the love around him.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #13 posted 06/05/16 11:05am

PeteSilas

what takes place in any band? Petty shit, jealousies, competitive bullshit, wanting more input, love lives. Mark Brown said he really felt disrespected when Lisa came aboard and Prince made her a star when he was busting ass for him before, he's got a point, Prince dogged Mark Brown many times. Wendy and Lisa wanted more and more input in the direction they were giving, Prince was trying to go more in an Randb direction which Lisa hated, she wanted him to keep going in the psychedelia and rock stuff, I think Prince was trying to go black and he did. I read lisa called it an r&b revue, and not all his fans liked it either. Also, Prince didn't like the lesbian lifestyle wendy and lisa were living and would argue with them about that. telling them that they would go to hell, all from a guy who dressed up in womens clothing, it's almost funny. W&L walk out, Prince talks them back and then fires them on his terms.

as far aas the org, I find that the fans of black music will always say they were pretty useless while the fans of the psychedelia say they were a major part of his prime. Prince, for his part, must have seen value that some of us can't, the lyrics from old friends for sale mentions that he needed these "other musicians" to "take you higher" which it sound like his management was telling him was bad. One big goddamned soap opera

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #14 posted 06/05/16 11:06am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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injuredpinky said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

...

And of course the song dedicated to them in 1997 In This Bed I Scream he's dealing with reconciling those emotions from then.

...

Never knew that song was about them. "En-lightning "

yep it's in the album notes

and The Love We Make was dedicated to Jonathan Melvoin after he died.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #15 posted 06/05/16 11:22am

FUNKNROLL

OldFriends4Sale said:

injuredpinky said:

Never knew that song was about them. "En-lightning "

yep it's in the album notes

and The Love We Make was dedicated to Jonathan Melvoin after he died.

Yep, "put down the needle, put down the spoon"...

sad

RIP

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Reply #16 posted 06/05/16 1:10pm

TrivialPursuit

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duggalolly said:

Based on what I've read (I think it was in the Possessed book, but it's been ages since I've read it), my understanding of it was that they wanted to leave sometime after Parade came out, maybe even after some of the hit & run shows, but before the start of the Europe/Japan tour. Prince convinced them to stay for the purposes of doing the tour (it would've looked bad if there had been a tour for a Prince and the Revolution album that didn't have 2 of the key members). Then he fired them after the tour.


Yeah, I think you're right. That rings a bell.

And I think the firing was a technicality by the end of the tour. I recently found a really bad copy of that last Yokohama show on YouTube. Remember the W&L referenced that show, and a moment from it, in their song "Song About".

Beautiful you said

the way you shook your head

It's ashamed that no one stayed

at the end of the parade

Even if he hadn't have toured for it, it would have been cool to have that Dream Factory album from them, with the hand drawn artwork or whatever. Just as a goodbye compilation of random tracks.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #17 posted 06/05/16 2:30pm

SPYZFAN1

"Prince dogged Brown Mark many times"....Mark really let the cat out of the bag in that Dave Hill book. The r&b vs psychedelic rock thing is interesting..Some of the older r&b fans complained that he sold out, while the newer fans left around the "Parade" era...Goes to show you can't please everyone.

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Reply #18 posted 06/05/16 2:36pm

PeteSilas

ya, we had the illustrious vainandy who could give you good reasons for why he didn't like the later albums, it's a lot better than people who just say "oh, such and such sucked" but, I can't agree, parade is just funky as hell to my ears, people complained about the classical arrangements, but those arrangements were bent towards funk in my ears, just wonderful.

also, in regards to W&L i did read that prince erased their names from some of the songs for sott too, our guy was pretty hardcore sometimes, but like i've said, had he not been that way, maybe there naever would have been a prince.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #19 posted 06/05/16 2:52pm

SPYZFAN1

"parade is just funky as hell".."those arrangements were bent towards funk".......Oh yeah. nod .."Parade" had all of that and more..To me that record was a good return to form (with his new funk)..And Wendy & Lisa had a big part of that too.

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Reply #20 posted 06/05/16 3:07pm

SoulAlive

yeah,BrownMark was pissed when he left.He claimed that he only received royalties for the Purple Rain album,even though the two albums that came after were billed as 'Prince and the Revolution' albums.He also mentioned that he had been in the band for years,but then Wendy joins the band in 1983 and Prince makes her an "instant star".It's clear that by late 1986,there was some serious drama and hurt feelings going on with these people.

In Prince's defense...it had to have been difficult to manage so many different personalities and egos,while dealing with his own new level of superstardom.

SPYZFAN1 said:

"Prince dogged Brown Mark many times"....Mark really let the cat out of the bag in that Dave Hill book.

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Reply #21 posted 06/05/16 3:09pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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PeteSilas said:

what takes place in any band? Petty shit, jealousies, competitive bullshit, wanting more input, love lives. Mark Brown said he really felt disrespected when Lisa came aboard and Prince made her a star when he was busting ass for him before, he's got a point, Prince dogged Mark Brown many times. Wendy and Lisa wanted more and more input in the direction they were giving, Prince was trying to go more in an Randb direction which Lisa hated, she wanted him to keep going in the psychedelia and rock stuff, I think Prince was trying to go black and he did. I read lisa called it an r&b revue, and not all his fans liked it either. Also, Prince didn't like the lesbian lifestyle wendy and lisa were living and would argue with them about that. telling them that they would go to hell, all from a guy who dressed up in womens clothing, it's almost funny. W&L walk out, Prince talks them back and then fires them on his terms.

as far aas the org, I find that the fans of black music will always say they were pretty useless while the fans of the psychedelia say they were a major part of his prime. Prince, for his part, must have seen value that some of us can't, the lyrics from old friends for sale mentions that he needed these "other musicians" to "take you higher" which it sound like his management was telling him was bad. One big goddamned soap opera

U mean when Wendy came aboard? Lisa was in the band before BrownMark

By 1980 though it seems Prince was leaning into being attached to his female band members, then Susan Moonsie Vanity Brenda Jill Sheila E etc it was just

I think the 'RnB' Revue was how the band was live with the 3 dancers. I liked them, but it did seem on the shows a lot of attention as on them. They had nothing to do with the music, putting BrownMark behind them. I didn't realize they were on stage with the Time on a few end songs during the What Time Is It? period. Gregory would try to imitate Morris Day.etc I think they were fun on a few performances, I would have loved to see what they would have been like for the Family. They definately would have been a good Madhouse addition. Just watched Hard Life.

I'm a fan of 'black music' and they were definately prime assetts. Eric Leads said 'some of the most wonderful things we did were with Wendy & Lisa'

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Reply #22 posted 06/05/16 3:24pm

TrivialPursuit

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SPYZFAN1 said:

"Prince dogged Brown Mark many times"....Mark really let the cat out of the bag in that Dave Hill book. The r&b vs psychedelic rock thing is interesting..Some of the older r&b fans complained that he sold out, while the newer fans left around the "Parade" era...Goes to show you can't please everyone.


Which is how The Black Album came about, trying to prove folks wrong. However, Parade had a lot of funky stuff on it, and a lot of R&B. "Anotherloverholenyohead" is almost a tamer Parliament song. "Girls and Boys" is funky. "Life Can Be So Nice" is pure aggression like "Tambourine" was, really.

The whole thing is more about showing how fans can fight hard to keep their favorite artists in a box, and never letting them grow. Prince gave a big "fuck you" to that idea on ATWIAD and Parade (which he said as well).

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Reply #23 posted 06/05/16 4:34pm

FUNKNROLL

Wendy and Lisa were given the spotlight and a great opportunity.
After leaving it seems they chose to work behind the scenes.
Seal (1991), Neil Finn's "One Nil", and Grace Jones "Hurricane" are great examples of W&L's work without Prince. Tells you all you need to know about what they bring to the table. It seems they prefer a role that is central but isn't front and center.
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Reply #24 posted 06/05/16 5:32pm

rookparade

FUNKNROLL said:

Wendy and Lisa were given the spotlight and a great opportunity.
After leaving it seems they chose to work behind the scenes.
Seal (1991), Neil Finn's "One Nil", and Grace Jones "Hurricane" are great examples of W&L's work without Prince. Tells you all you need to know about what they bring to the table. It seems they prefer a role that is central but isn't front and center.

Wendy and Lisa were musicians first. They did not have the outsized personalities that were required to be pop stars on their own in the 80s. Prince, obviously, had it all, musicianship, style, charisma, to burn. They wrote some good songs but they just weren't stars without Prince.
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Reply #25 posted 06/05/16 5:45pm

PeteSilas

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

what takes place in any band? Petty shit, jealousies, competitive bullshit, wanting more input, love lives. Mark Brown said he really felt disrespected when Lisa came aboard and Prince made her a star when he was busting ass for him before, he's got a point, Prince dogged Mark Brown many times. Wendy and Lisa wanted more and more input in the direction they were giving, Prince was trying to go more in an Randb direction which Lisa hated, she wanted him to keep going in the psychedelia and rock stuff, I think Prince was trying to go black and he did. I read lisa called it an r&b revue, and not all his fans liked it either. Also, Prince didn't like the lesbian lifestyle wendy and lisa were living and would argue with them about that. telling them that they would go to hell, all from a guy who dressed up in womens clothing, it's almost funny. W&L walk out, Prince talks them back and then fires them on his terms.

as far aas the org, I find that the fans of black music will always say they were pretty useless while the fans of the psychedelia say they were a major part of his prime. Prince, for his part, must have seen value that some of us can't, the lyrics from old friends for sale mentions that he needed these "other musicians" to "take you higher" which it sound like his management was telling him was bad. One big goddamned soap opera

U mean when Wendy came aboard? Lisa was in the band before BrownMark

By 1980 though it seems Prince was leaning into being attached to his female band members, then Susan Moonsie Vanity Brenda Jill Sheila E etc it was just

I think the 'RnB' Revue was how the band was live with the 3 dancers. I liked them, but it did seem on the shows a lot of attention as on them. They had nothing to do with the music, putting BrownMark behind them. I didn't realize they were on stage with the Time on a few end songs during the What Time Is It? period. Gregory would try to imitate Morris Day.etc I think they were fun on a few performances, I would have loved to see what they would have been like for the Family. They definately would have been a good Madhouse addition. Just watched Hard Life.

I'm a fan of 'black music' and they were definately prime assetts. Eric Leads said 'some of the most wonderful things we did were with Wendy & Lisa'

ya, sorry, good lord, 30 years and i still mix those two up, wendy just never seemed a name for the more masculine one, i think that's why i still have to think before i know her name.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #26 posted 06/06/16 4:47am

FUNKYNESS

jeez....so tired of them

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Reply #27 posted 06/06/16 6:47am

keenly

SoulAlive said:

yeah,BrownMark was pissed when he left.He claimed that he only received royalties for the Purple Rain album,even though the two albums that came after were billed as 'Prince and the Revolution' albums.He also mentioned that he had been in the band for years,but then Wendy joins the band in 1983 and Prince makes her an "instant star".It's clear that by late 1986,there was some serious drama and hurt feelings going on with these people.

In Prince's defense...it had to have been difficult to manage so many different personalities and egos,while dealing with his own new level of superstardom.

SPYZFAN1 said:

"Prince dogged Brown Mark many times"....Mark really let the cat out of the bag in that Dave Hill book.

Prince was a tyrant.

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Reply #28 posted 06/06/16 7:26am

NouveauDance

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FUNKYNESS said:

jeez....so tired of them

Stop clicking on threads about them and spending your time replying in them then.

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Reply #29 posted 06/06/16 10:40am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

rookparade said:

FUNKNROLL said:
Wendy and Lisa were given the spotlight and a great opportunity. After leaving it seems they chose to work behind the scenes. Seal (1991), Neil Finn's "One Nil", and Grace Jones "Hurricane" are great examples of W&L's work without Prince. Tells you all you need to know about what they bring to the table. It seems they prefer a role that is central but isn't front and center.
Wendy and Lisa were musicians first. They did not have the outsized personalities that were required to be pop stars on their own in the 80s. Prince, obviously, had it all, musicianship, style, charisma, to burn. They wrote some good songs but they just weren't stars without Prince.

Right and even they said in interviews that that is not their place to be out front.
I think about all the singers with albums and how they try to become 'stars' but everyone isn't meant to take the lead. Some people shine as background or as song writer or as the musician in _ band.

These people are frustrated with their careers, because it probably isn't the place for them.

Wendy & Lisa shined where they were and where they are. Still getting awards for their score work incidently some of the stuff they did with Prince for Purple Rain & Under the Cherry Moon.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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