catwoman555 said:

We don't speaka teh Dutch here.

Not that most of what you wrote makes sense in English. No, Kiss wasn't written for The Family, it was written for Mazarati. It was certainly not released by any of those bands. You're thinking of Nothing Compares 2 U, which wasn't a hit until Sinead O'Connor covered it. (And then Prince butchered it by having Rosie wail all over it.)

How many hits did Prince write for Martika? Yeah, let's not pretend she wasn't heard of after Martika's Kitchen (an album I actually like, though only Love... Thy Will Be Done is a great track).

No, it hasn't happened lately that any jewels have emerged from the vaults. I can't recall any recent outtake. All of the good stuff has been circulating for years, these days we occasionally get an upgrade in sound quality.

And again: there's not a huge market for these things. Hell, these things didn't even sell well back when Prince was a huge deal. Jill Jones did a promo tour in Europe and still couldn't get a hit. Even Pandemonium never scored big.

BartVanHemelen said:

Het grote verschil is dat Prince zijn eigen platen label is. Alle kosten moeten door hem zelf voorgeschoten worden. de Return on investment is bij Prince ongeveer 1.5 jaar.

Kun je voor stellen dat dit een grote last op zijn schouders is.
de bands die je noemt zijn gewoon onder contract. hoeven niets voor te schieten en te organiseren.

mvg

[/quote]

We don't speaka teh Dutch here.

.[/quote]

Mr. Van Hemelen.

There are no Rules in prince.org about the language. So if you don't want to read it, than don't.

If you don't want to answer it than don't.

Maak geen eigen regels.

So Mr van Hemelen. there was a point in my reply

[/quote]


And again: there's not a huge market for these things. Hell, these things didn't even sell well back when Prince was a huge deal. Jill Jones did a promo tour in Europe and still couldn't get a hit. Even Pandemonium never scored big.[/quote]


Prince schreef 9 nr's voor Martika. 4 zijn er op de album gekomen.
Wat Martika erna deed heeft niets met prince te maken.

Een hit scoren tegenwoordig is voor prince lastig. Hij maakt immers geen "kiddy Pop" Hip hop is zijn ding ook niet meer.

Of ik iets zinnigs schrijf in NL of Engels is niet belangrijk.
Maar wel dat er onnodige demonisering tot stand komt.
Ik mis gewoon wat relativering vermogen in je antwoorden.

mvg
[Edited 7/12/08 11:41am]

BartVanHemelen said:

-----
Well maybe you forgot about the Rainbow Children tour. P did not do an all hits show on that tour and I know people who were pissed off.

If Radiohead and Bruce Springsteen fans want to pay to see shows without any hits that is great for them. I am not really interested in seeing P do that kind of tour again and I do not think the millions of people that went to the
Musicology shows want to see that sort of tour either.

We all have our likes and dislikes.

"But then those guys are actually artists, and not money-hungry weasels like Prince has been for over a decade.[/quote]"

Well I am sorry you feel this way but now a days you have to an artist and a business man. I do not think making a living and being successful makes anyone a greedy weasel and I think P wasted enough money in the 90's on projects that were not financialy successful that he may have learned a valuble lesson about economics.

Once again to each his own.

catwoman555 said:

-----
Transaltion
---The big difference is that Prince his own label plates. All costs must be advanced by himself. Return on investment in Prince approximately 1.5 years. Can you say that this is a big burden on his shoulders. the bands you mention are just under contract. do not have to shoot and organize. mvg

Co-Sign Good Point

laurarichardson said:

Tell it. For one, Radiohead and BS do not have the catalogs or hits that P has and none of these artists are hurting for cash. Compare P's ticket prices with any superstar act. And I doubt that BS is shelving "Born to Run" or his staples. When Prince went through periods when he was not playing the "hits" there was a mutiny in the fan community. He can't win. He has taken so many daring anti-establishment and oppositional business moves that it doesn't make rational sense when people accuse him of money grabbing.

Also, name me a major act that routinely does 2 hour aftershow sets where new music and formats are explored. If your're a fan interested in seeing funky instrumentals, suprise collaborations and reworking of obscure song favorites - go see an aftershow concert. You'll be the one yelling "Sing Purple Rain!"

jdcxc said:

Couldn't agree more. I first started going to Prince shows during the years and he would stay far far far away from playing "the hits". Every now and again he'd play "7" or something more obscure like "Vicki Waiting". Fact is: Prince has had several eras/tours where he didn't play "the hits".

Sheila's b-sides and extended remixes are some of the best throughout her career -- it'd be cool if these were added to the releases

It great to have something to look forward to.

Snap said:

The reason im pointing out about "writing credits" and actual involvement, is that when PRINCE got "free" from WB and was allowed to leave he gave up alot of things, ranging from unreleased songs that WB could still compile, which was "the vault" record and of course the "Very Best of" and the "Ultimate", but he also gave up his protegee stuff too, especially those where he wasnt directly credited.

This makes me happy because I never tracked down Sheila E's self titled album on CD, and a used copy goes for more than I want to pay for it:

http://www.amazon.ca/Shei...34&sr=8-12

catwoman555 said:

If you don't know what you're talking about, don't speak, OK? Radiohead finance their own recordings and tours, and don't even pretend that any record label is gonna tell Bruce Springsteen what to do.

Oh, and your reply was COMPLETELY BESIDES THE POINT. And in Dutch.

catwoman555 said:

Sweet Jebus, arguing about a 10+ year old album that never made an impact back then... Seriously, THAT is the best example you can come up with? Why do you even bother?

catwoman555 said:

WHO GIVES A SHIT? The pathetic thing is that people like you AND PRINCE continue to be obsessed by chart success, which (especially when it comes to singles) means ZILCH these days. Do you really think Springsteen or Radiohead or Nine Inch Nails etcetera give a damn about the charts?

Prince does: just listen to that godawful crap he recorded with whatshername a year or so ago.

And your reply was AGAIN completely besides the point. Sheesh, failure to use the proper language, failure to debate the subject...

laurarichardson said:

No I didn't. However, Prince quickly limited the new songs in the set, and by the time the tour hit Europe is was by and large a greatest hits set again. And sheesh, ONE tour in the past 10+ years? Whoop-de-da, what an "Artist". Whereas the likes of Radiohead and Springsteen (and many other artists) have long figured out that you don't need to prostitute yourself to keep earning money. They simply educated their audiences.

Will there have been people who were pissed off at Bruce for playing a set largely consisting of Pete Seeger covers? Sure, and guess what, these "fans" get ignored, because they're clearly not the kind of fans who've been paying attention. Ditto Radiohead. Is Bruce now in the poorhouse? HELL NO, instead he's regarded as an ongoing musical force who marches to his own beat.

laurarichardson said:

And the only guy to blame for this is... PRINCE. He fed them a steady diet of hits, then he shouldn't surprise peopel see him as an oldies act. Then again, Prince knows damn well NOBODY wants to pay to hear him play his latest bland crap, no matter how fanatics like you continue to pretend his output of the past 10+ years is just as great as his 1980s output.

laurarichardson said:

Does it hurt to take such a wide stance? Seriously, on the one hand with each new album you're out there claiming it is another masterpiece and a huge success even if it sells next to nothing because Prince is a genius businessman who earns so much more, and on the other hand you're here claiming Prince needs to be an oldies act otherwise he can't pay the bills. Seriously, pick a side.

(And all that money that he spent? That was WARNER BROTHERS' money. They wrote off MILLIONS when they renegotiated with Prince.)

Again, how delusional do you have to be to pretend that artists like Radiohead and Springsteen aren't good businessmen? I betcha that a) they earn WAY MORE than Prince, and at the same time they're still huge acts with critical acclaim.

laurarichardson said:

No, they're NOT good points because they're BULLSHIT.

Nice.

The only one that people have difficulty finding cheap there is Sheila's 3rd LP, but it's still great to see these albums re-issued, hopefully there will be more to follow if these sell well.

I'd hope there was some remastering, if not bonus tracks added too, I probably wouldn't buy they otherwise as there would be no reason.

jdcxc said:

Sweet Jebus... How am I supposed to debate when people spout such ridiculous nonsense?

jdcxc said:

Again with that "Prince is in the poorhouse" baloney.

jdcxc said:

But when Bruce tours his Pete Seeger tribute album, HE ACTUALLY PLAYS IT. What did Prince play in London? Oh yes, TWENTY YEAR OLD HITS. But he has to otherwise he'll be in the poorhouse. Sweet Jebus, the utter ridiculousness.

jdcxc said:

Yet more bullshit. Prince hasn't done these IN TWENTY YEARS.

lastdecember said:

Sigh... Why do people who know NOTHING still insist on posting crap?

FACT: PRINCE compiled The Vault. Not someone at WB, PRINCE did that. Artwork, everythign. Delivered together with C&D to WB as a "like it or not, this is all you're gonna get from me" attempt at getting out of his record deal. Considering he owed them THREE albums at the time and that these should consist of NEW music, WB could have easily sued the pants off of him. Instead they were the adults (again) and decided that since there was zero chance of Prince behaving, they let him go.
FACT: "Best Of" albums are regularly part of record deals, don't even pretend that WB invented those to spite Prince.
FACT: WB asked Prince for input on Ultimate and even gave him veto rights, which is ridiculous.
FACT: the protegee stuff is owned by WB because THEY PAID FOR IT.
FACT: Prince still got paid whenever anybody played or covered any of that music. I bet Sinead O'Connor covering NC2U made him more money than all of the protege records combined.

Wanna know how big a baby Prince was (and probably still is)? Back in the mid-1990s, WB asked just ONE thing of Prince: that he stopped talking trash about the label that financed all his wims for years. In return they'd release the second NPG album and not sue him for releasing it in Europe. What happened? A couple of weeks later yet another new interview pops up and Prince is at it again. And that is why the US never saw a proper release of Exodus.

skywalker said:

Oh please, get real. I challenge you to list all Prince tours since 1990 and indicate which ones weren't 80% hits.

And for the record: I am so frikking happy that I saw Prince in 1995 and that he didn't play his hits and instead did I Love U In Me and Pink Cashmere. I'd seen him do his hits several times by then and I was way happier that I heard him do stuff he'd never done before (or since). That was the last time Prince was great.

By the time I saw him again in 1998 he stunk and the only good part of the concert was him doing Sly & The Family Stone songs with several of the original members from that band. The rest of it? Crappy new tunes and bored jams of played-out hits. I haven't heard a single concert he's done since then that was any good.

Why are you here?

BartVanHemelen said:

C'mon, your research is better than this. He did instrumental concerts following his Vegas shows and afterhour sets in London. I don't think there has been a tour in which he hasn't done these shows that allow him to stretch.

Prince and Radiohead/BS have different audience expectations. With Prince, there is always going to be that push/pull between playing what the audience expects and what the "artist" needs as far as creativity. Radiohead's "alternative" audience allows their band to perform whatever they want because that is the nature of their appeal. If Prince would have released a Pete Seeger or whoever tribute album, there would've been the same criticism that he gets when he performs covers live. Bruce only releases a new album every couple of years.

And don't even get my started on the apartheid nature of popular cultural arts that straightjacket African-American musicians into hit-churners as opposed to creative and intelligent artists. There's an economic basis for this that is deep rooted. This is true in almost every artistic medium and especially poignant in the film industry. But I digress...

jdcxc said:

Yes.

so anyway, yeah. there's some sheila e. albums gonna be reissued at the end of the month if anyone cares.

Anxiety said:

BartVanHemelen said:

-----
" haven't heard a single concert he's done since then that was any good."

Too bad you missed the Rainbow Children shows or any of the aftershows since.
He has played non-hits at these shows. He really makes an effort to please everyone but, it sounds like your just plain board with the music in general.

BartVanHemelen said:

-----
Yes, Bart it is all bullshit because we all know that P has been with one hugh record lable for the last decade.

Please stop spending your time on Prince.org. It is obvious you not interested anymore.

BartVanHemelen said:

-----

I do not know what happened in Europe but he played non-hit sets in the states.
I can tell you that I saw whole rows of people leave because they were mad that he did not play many hits. I also have a few boots from after shows during that tour in Europe and once again, he is playing non-hits.
The fact is I like Prince I do not care for Radiohead or Bruce and I do not think most fans want Prince to be anybody but Prince at this point in his career.

The music media as well as many fans regard Prince highly so I would say are alone with your opinion. In addition, I do not need Prince to educate me. I need him to entertain me.




"And the only guy to blame for this is... PRINCE. He fed them a steady diet of hits, then he shouldn't surprise peopel see him as an oldies act. Then again, Prince knows damn well NOBODY wants to pay to hear him play his latest bland crap, no matter how fanatics like you continue to pretend his output of the past 10+ years is just as great as his 1980s output."

It is not about feeding anyone anything. I really think it is what the people want and you have a hard time accepting that. Your likes and preferences are yours to have. Assuming that the rest of us are morons who do not know good music from bad it beyond arrogant.

laurarichardson said:

"Does it hurt to take such a wide stance? Seriously, on the one hand with each new album you're out there claiming it is another masterpiece and a huge success even if it sells next to nothing because Prince is a genius businessman who earns so much more, and on the other hand you're here claiming Prince needs to be an oldies act otherwise he can't pay the bills. Seriously, pick a side.
I am not taking a wide stance I am using common sense. In addition, I have never called all of P’s cd masterpieces. I think Planet Earth was a 2 star cd at best and probably the weakest CD in his catalogue. "


I do think he is a decent business man because he is making more money and selling less records in an industry that is filled with idiots who cannot accept that music sells are going to remain down and never go back to the days of 15 and 20 million copies being sold. At the same time he is an entertainer who knows what a majority of the fans want and at the same time does aftershows for the hardcore. I think he does a decent job of balancing so there is really no side to pick.





"(And all that money that he spent? That was WARNER BROTHERS' money. They wrote off MILLIONS when they renegotiated with Prince.)

Again, how delusional do you have to be to pretend that artists like Radiohead and Springsteen aren't good businessmen? I betcha that a) they earn WAY MORE than Prince, and at the same time they're still huge acts with critical acclaim.[/quote]"

Stop spending your time feeling sorry for WB they are still getting their share of the profits off of P’s music and there nothing he can do about that.
I never said that Radiohead or Bruce were bad at business. I just do not care for their music and I find it interesting that you think it is great that they are making money but that Prince is a greedy weasel.
Another poster mentioned that the race dynamic does not even come up in the discussion about art/commerence but believe me that plays a hugh role in what Radiohead and Bruce are able to do and Prince is able to do. However, despite all that racial nosense P has done pretty well for himself in my opinio

The only album I don't have is Pandemonium.

I remember it was a bitch trying to get the Sheila E album...But I found it, and very cheap!

BartVanHemelen said:

Prince actually played them on some stops during the Musicology tour.

As I see it, Prince is more of a performer now than a relevant artist. And I think over the last few years, yes, he is packing them in by playing the oldies, just like the Stones and now The Police. But he has received wide exposure during the mid-00's as a talented performer, regardless of what he plays. He's probably now the most famous cover artist in the world; not only of his own back catalogue, but of others' songs as well. He's been playing killer covers forever, but he's getting more recognition for that than in the past.
[Edited 7/13/08 13:04pm]