midnightmover said:

The fact of the matter is God invented medicines and doctors. Sometimes you must receive what God has already placed here for us.

jonylawson said:

kmet44 said:

If you say so.

I agree everything we need is on earth. EVERYTHING. The cure to every natural disease; not man made ones like aids.

Unfortunately alot of natural herbs, painkillers, anti-biotics etc are deliberately being supressed by the pharmaceutical companies to further enable their control and profit

fcukthepolice said:

Valid point indeed.

midnightmover said:

I hate to appear as an unbelieving heathen, but I do agree with this statement.

I am an ICU nurse, and it is very frustrating to see family bring their loved ones to hospital for modern medicine intervention, then when the doctor says it is futile to continue (i.e. patient is brain dead) and suggest that the family agrees with removing life support that the family starts talking about only God decides when a person dies. You can't have it both ways... God "decided" the day the patient was brought in, modern medicine interferred with that; maybe that is why the treatment attempt failed.

MsLegs said:

pharmaceutical companies derive their medicines from nature plants/elements.

horatio said:

only a small percentage.

There is WAY more money in drugs than in natural herbs.

Prozac anyone?

fcukthepolice said:

Agreed. It's not a coincident that some doctors get kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies while the miracles of Herbalist/Holistic Medicine is rarely publicized.
[Edited 12/15/07 14:00pm]

fcukthepolice said:

AIDS is a man-made disease? Care to explain?

jbchavez said:

My sentiments exactly.

prodigalfan said:

Thank you for making this very valid point.

prodigalfan said:

I think its about a loved on dying. Why get frustrated? I was faced with making life or death decisions for my mother and I about froze just with the reality that death is a possibility. I just followed my heart. Didn't care if it made sense to nurses, doctors or whomever.


I'm shaking my head at some of the statements on here.

Its really both/and and not this or that. I am one to believe that doctors and modern medicine are from God BUT like with anything we mess things up. I also believe in holistic meds as well but we also need to know that there are quacks and fools in that "industry" as well.

I just can't agree with the implication that somehow Denise's faith isn't strong because she's on dialysis. God says not to be a fool as well or as someone said "God provided wisdom".


You are also finding more doctors working with patients who want to try holistic/herbal healing measures. These doctors will work with the herbalist to monitor the patients progress. If those remedies don't work, then the patient may chose traditional meds/treatment.

I find any doctor Ive spoken with about alternative methods typically are put off and try to discourage me from trying them saying, 'we don't know what those things do' etc.
but I agree with much of your statement.

Rhondab said:

Rhondab said:

I am sorry that you were faced with a difficult choice concerning your mom.
we (nurses and doctors) try to be sensitive and allow the families to come to terms with the inevitable. My feelings are with my patient. when my patient is elderly (80) has terminal cancer, need a machine to breath because the brain is dead, need drugs to keep the blood pumping because the brain is dead... and we are sticking them with needles for blood draws every 4 hours, need a heating blanket to keep the patient warm because again, the brain is dead... I am looking at the suffering of the patient. When I stick him with a needle and he tries to pull his arm away from the pain, just one more point of pain that *I* am inflicting because the family can't make a compassionate choice.
I lost my dad last year to cancer and he did not want to have "all of that". We respected his wishes and it was very hard for me to not intervene when I saw him decline so rapidly. I second guess how we handled things every day. Then I see a patient same age, same prognosis come into my ICU unit and the above scenario occurs. More than once I have had to go off quietly and shed a few tears, thankful that we did not let my dad suffer unneccessarily. If the patient is not willing to accept death, I will fight with him (alongside the patient) and for him every step of the way, but it is hard to do when the patient can't really speak for himself, and the family has to decide... and they are so hard core answering "no". Some of them will say "no" and at the same time, can't bear to look their loved one in the face or touch him because they know in their heart that their loved one is suffering and they (the family) has the power to let them go peacefully but just can't let go.
[Edited 12/16/07 8:02am]

ddsummer said:

Good point.

Rhondab said:

I've known preachers who said exactly that. Not specifically about Denise obviously, but about modern medicine in general. The congregation nodded, but I doubt if any of them hold to that idea when their own health is on the line.

Thanks for the post

2 1/2 hours of dialysis a day? Yikes!

I went to Denise's website, and my cat (who was sitting right next to the computer monitor), started batting at the butterflies that were on Denises's homepage. Silly cat!
.

I see there are some whom have passed fairly heavy judgment on what it was to walk in this woman's shoes. I read the entire article and subsequently spent an hour or two on her website; I had no idea her life had taken such a severe turn. My heart goes out to her, and I wish her all the best. The same goes to anyone on this site that might be experiencing difficulties in their lives today, because there is so much more going on in life besides song and dance. This world is just such a trip. God bless us all.

midnightmover said:

We all have our opinions, and I try to respect each and every one of them. I certainly believe AIDS/HIV was a biological experiment, concocted in some Government laboratory, by some league of twisted scientists attempting to design some form of genetic weaponry that would have the ability to wipe out legions of whomever they designated was "The Enemy". And that as this project approached completion, they needed "lab rats/guinea pigs" to test it's effectiveness out on. So they chose a group that THEY figured the world would be better off without anyway. And there went The Days of Disco, and all things creative!

But things got out of control, as The Evil Geniuses never anticipated that so many of the WORTHY one's were tipping over & getting’ freaky on The Down Low, in assumed undercover mode. But it was too late to fix after the fact, the Monster was already out the box, out of control, and running shit on it’s own, on it’s own terms.

Either way you wrap it, that little virus has certainly caused a whole Hell of a lot of grief in 25 years, and has put a serious damper on the party!

I don’t believe the HIV virus developed itself naturally and just randomly chose 1979 as the point in time it would rear it’s ugly head; it required assistance and refinement. But that's just my little "o".

midnightmover said:

Thanks for the information. That helps me understand her situation more. I am not sure what I would do in that situation. My thinking as of today is that I would do whatever is necessary for me to have a healthy life.

PDogz said:

yES indeed

That's why it suddenly popped up
It was first tested in africa.

BTW many scientists have said this too but you won't find them on cnn stating their expert opinions
[Edited 12/17/07 12:34pm]

fcukthepolice said:

That's a thought. Regardless of orgin, AIDS/HIV is nothing to take lightly and brings to light the importance communication and honesty in relationships.
[Edited 12/17/07 10:35am]

midnightmover said:

completely agree. My aunt was told by a deacon that her faith is weak because she has a crippling neural muscular disease.
[Edited 12/17/07 15:02pm]

nice read. thanks.

Rhondab said:

what?

wow what a caring person

FUCK HIM. Piece of shit
religious nuts make me sick; they spread so much hate
[Edited 12/17/07 14:20pm]

fcukthepolice said:

oh the same man told my uncle who had muscular dystrophy that he would should have been walking (correctly) if his faith was strong. My uncle cracked up and just shook his head. My uncle lived to be 60 when they told him he would be dead by 15.

People can be so stupid in the name of faith.

fcukthepolice said:

With Backsliding Hypocrite Sunday Christians, you can't put anything past them.

PDogz said:

I agree with your statement somewhat.

I have heard a scenario that seems more likely:

Aids developed from a vaccination attempt gone awry.

In the 70's the scientists were looking for a vaccination for herpes. There was purportedly a certain strain of herpes common in the gay community that was targeted for experimental purposes. At times vaccinations are grown in a medium that is made from monkey species tissue... it seems these mediums made of monkey tissue grows faster therefore the turn around time for experiments is faster. This time, the monkey tissue contain the HIV virus... perfectly harmless to the monkey, but deadly to humans. The test vaccination was given to gay test subjects.. one of them happened to be an flight attendant who became "patient zero"...

I read this scenario in the early 90's. It seems to be the one most plausible to me.
No plot, no conspiracy... just a dumb mistake. Happens every day... look at the doctor that operated on the wrong side of patient's brain.