NGSPW7200 said:

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You are a cool dude!!! I agree with you 100%

The1AndOnlyAndTheOnly1 said:

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Well in DMSR Matt and Bobby are making these statements.
I found the comment to be disturbing and offensive. I am sure if W+L, Matt or Bobby ever said this to Prince he was probaly livid. I am sure these statements were the begining of the end of the Revolution.

laurarichardson said:

You know,I also read those comments by Bobby and Matt regarding Prince's black bandmembers,and I find those comments offensive too.If they had a problem with Wally and Greg,I wonder what they think of all of Prince's bands AFTER the Revolution? Too "Black" for them?

When you are in a band you have to deal with all these personalities and moods,etc. You just get tired and some people well just aren't plesant. Susanah had a big problem with Black people. Dah? Prince is Black no matter how light his skin. She was rude and more childish then Mayte could ever be. I ate dinner with him once she waited until we were leaving to show her behind. I am just a friend I told her. She reconized me from pictures his mother had it was on how immature to try and attack me for just eating dinner with him. Morris was just laughing until she screamed out the N word.

queen627 said:

Susannah screamed out the N word at who? And why would she scream the N word? I'm kinda confused here .

Was this a dinner party attended by Prince, you, Morris Day and whoever or something? Why would Prince be engaged to marry a white woman who has a problem with blacks when he himself is black?

queen627 said:

What are you smoking!??? That is a bunch of bullshit, Susannah is nothing like that, if she had a problem with blacks would she have dated Seal??

"Okay, I think I figured it out: Bobbby Z. left because Prince wanted Sheila E. to be his drummer. Brown Mark left because all of the attention Prince gave Wendy he felt like he treated him like he didn't excist. Wendy left because of the way Prince treated Susanna and because Miko Weaver was in the band, Alan Leeds said she didn't want another guitarist in the band. Lisa left because of Greg Brooks and Wally Saford; she was insulted, she was also pobaly burnt out; she was with him for 6 years. She could've also been very close to Susanna too. And of course Matt stayed


I say thank God! (as I pop-in my "Classic" Sign O' The Times VHS Tape)...
[This message was edited Wed Oct 16 19:14:01 PDT 2002 by NGSPW7200]

DavidEye said:

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I don't know what was going on with these dudes!! When I read this in DMSR I was very offended and surprised that they would actually repeat this stuff 15 years after in all took place.

EverlastingNow said:

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I do not know if Susan made any racist remarks but, it is not unusual for people to separate famous or rich African-Americans from the general black population. Because Prince is a star maybe his white peers did not see him as being black.

this thread has attracted some serious

Well, it's true that Wally and Greg didn't really bring much to the table. They shouldn't have been in the band. They couldn't sing and they weren't trained dancers. Prince put them onstage because they were his friends.

But the members of the Revolution who resented having Greg and Wally in the band should not have put it in racial terms. Greg and Wally had a minimum amount of talent and shouldn't have been in the band, but that has nothing to do with them being black.

I think the whole timeperiod of Prince hanging around
with Susannah, Wendy and Lisa laid the foundation for
his crossover success and took hin to places he might
not have achieved if he had just stayed in the "black
music" genre...I mean just think about Purple Rain,
ATWIAD or better yet Parade and the movie Under the
Cherry Moon, about some black gigolo and his buddy hanging
around in Nice , of all places,and making a living from
dating white, rich women...I highly doubt that Prince would
have gone into certain directions in his music and his life
if it wasn´t for this pseudo"white"-phase, if you catch my
drift, and I notice that everytime I go to a concert in Europe, where most fans are still stuck in the 80´s and are
more into that kind of music ( like U2, Depeche Mode, Springsteen,..whatever)
The celebration on the other hand showed me the "other" side
of Prince and his fanbase, namely African Americans and the
culture, attitude, style and music connected with it.
For me this is all just very interesting since I don´t really fall into any of those two categories, but feel closer to the African American side for reasons too many to
mention in this thread. Like Prince, I also grew up "racially" mixed or culturally or whatever, with contacts to African American friends or white, European Germans and Arabs, Turks, Yugoslavs, whatever, so I can pretty much relate to that situation of growing up as a minority in an environment where you´re surrounded with a
majority that´s different, and of course you might go through phases where you feel closer to your "cultural" group or whatever or have phases where you live your live
closer to the (white) majority group, including situations
where you sometimes feel closer to one group due to certain
aspects or closer to the other group because of some other
aspects, whether it be food, music, relationships, trust, or feeling more comfortable in one group or the other.
I mean think about it, here you have a black kid whose
parents hail from Lousiana and move to Minnesota, which is
predominantly white, growing up in the tumultous 60´s and 70´s, a time of drastic cultural and political changes, listening to music like Santana, Grand Funk Railroad, Joni
Mitchell, Sly Stone, loves to play Basketball but is too
small for it ( just like me, hehe) and is different than most of his peers, and lives in two worlds in a comparatively liberal , cold state somewhere in nowhere, Minnesota ( which I love , by the way ) and all this is a
very unique and special situation.
I don´t endorse what Matt Fink or Bobby Z or Wendy and Lisa
said about Prince hanging around with Greg and Wally but I
understand what they´re driving at, and I guess a lot of you
can relate to this. And it was the eighties, a time when being "black" in the popular US culture wasn´t as hip as it is today, and people compromised a lot, on the verge of selling out, but then again it was ok, since they also paved
the way for things to come. I personally like both sides of
Prince, and I´m quite neutral, and I didn´t grow up with 80´s pop and rock music, I grew up with HipHop..RunDMC, KoolMoeDee, Doug E Fresh, Bambaataa, Melle Mel and the Furious Five, SOS band, the Time, MidnightStar, Cameo AND
Prince, who somehow always sneaked onto my mixtapes, but I wasn´t really into Prince when he was considered part of the "white" pop culture, Lovesexy, SOTT, Parase didn´t really mean much to me when I was 14, 15, or 16 or 17..but
I startted appreciating those albums later on , around 19.
And I also had girlfriends who would be ok to me for a certain time, and then be racist at a later time, maybe not
really,but some stupid remarks would slip out every now and
then, also when I think about their parents or associates, so personally, I find this whole scenario sociologically
highly interesting, this whole debate IS a crucial point of
discussion and also of Prince´s music, because his music
also showed and still shows a lot of what he absorbed from his surrounding or friends or culture or whatever, and it would be very interesting to take the 25 or 26 or 28 year old Prince of that time period into today and make him listen towhat Prince put out in the past ten years...
without saying it´s been bad, I just think it would be interesting, considering all the aforementioned points.
We have to understand the bigger picture of it all, how things relate to each other, the feelings created by those
experiences...catch my drift ???

SkletonKee said:

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Why don't you try to add something to the thread. Instead of calling people crazy. Whenever anyone tries to discuss racism in a rational way someone like you comes a long to dismiss the discussion. Put thinking cap on and join in.

KoolEaze said:

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I think Prince always planned to cross over to a pop audience. All of the records before Purple Rain have at least one rock/pop song on them. In the late 70's and early 80's black bands or performers were not marketed to white audiences and did not record pop songs. By putting some rock/pop tunes on his records I think he always had crossover in mind. He was during this before W+L came along. I also think that growing up in predominently white area gave him a feel for pop music and white culture. Perhaps he sould not have put Wally and Brooks into the band. However,it was his band and he was the guy writing the checks. I sometimes wonder if it is hard for some white people to accept taking orders from a African-American. I am not sure if this was the situation with the Revolution or if they just felt that comfortable with Prince.

laurarichardson said:

but your debate or discussion is anything *but* rational...assumptions and guesses are being thrown out as facts...mistruths are being given as evidence...its just straight out silly to even try and engage in this discussion...Harlepolis thread has been threadjocked by a bunch of conspiracy freaks..(and i say that in the nicest, polite way possible )

Here's a thought...why don't we just resign ourselves to accepting the fact that the real reason for the Prince and Wendy and Lisa breakup was professional.

Prince wanted to go in a different direction. That is sustantiated by his musical releases after the breakup. Wendy and Lisa needed to move foreward. Prince had realized their potential and "pushed them" toward the direction that they needed to go.

Now, everyone knows that I am a Wendy and Lisa fan, however I hear alot of people comparing them and saying who is better. You cannot compare apples to oranges. Both, as seperate entities, are talented in their own right. Prince has strenghts that Wendy and Lisa do not have and visa versa.

I believe that it was clear to Prince that he wanted to redevelop his sound to change with the times. Wendy and Lisa did not understand this at the time. It was a great collaboration while it lasted. And for the "time period"...it was magical.

Do I believe that if Prince and Wendy and Lisa hooked backed up today that they would still have the magic? No, not really. I believe that if time has shown us anything, it is the fact that Prince and Wendy and Lisa's musical style is so vast, that it would not be comprable to today's musical style. Sure Wendy and Lisa could conform to what Prince wanted, but I don't believe that we would hear the same magaic that we heard in the 80's. Collaboration would be out of the question because, both have developed their styles and they could not coexist together. The only people that would find it pleasing are "Prince and the Revolution" of the 80's. It would not mesh in today's society.

SkletonKee said:

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Have you read DMSR?? Because that is were the information is coming from. W+L, Matt,and Bobby are saying these things in the book. The rest of the discusion is just based on opinion. Maybe you did not realize that an opinion is going to be apart of a discussion or maybe you are so enchanted by W+L that you can't belive thay would say these things. Try coming out of your fantasy world!!!. They are human and it is quite possible that they had their bad days.

laurarichardson said:

hey, im not the one debating rumors...i'll debate my opinion..but there is *no* point in debating rumors...expecially rumors that are about personal lives...


but, hey...if you want to, more power to you...id rather discuss my musical, film or political views...all else, imho, is a waste of time...

Race always plays a Part with everything.Prince wanted a Sly&The Family Stone Concept&Cross-Over Acceptance&Respect for His Work&Whatnot.but once He saw that while He brought Him more Money it didn't change the way the Industry saw Him.but Prince had this all Mapped out.He had the Italian Managers at the time,Interracial Band&Two Females that Played&Were White.timing is everything&knowing how too play the Game comes in Handy.I think Prince's Involvement with Susannah caused so reasoning for Wendy&Lisa leaving but also Prince has the forgot too give Credit Problem.they wanted there Respect&Props for Flipping the Script on His Sound&He didn't wanna share it fully.Brown Mark once said that all the Loot the Band got came from "Purple Rain".I think Prince had too go into another direction as well because that "Flower Power" Shit wasn't happening with "Around The World in A Day&Parade IMHO.it produced Some Good Songs but also alot of So-So too Filler Material IMHO.the trip out thing was seeing all 3 of them on Rolling Stone together back in 86?? that Picture Spoke Volumes IMHO.

Its intersting how "the real reason b-hind a break-up' turn into a RACIAL onw

Harlepolis said:

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I never said the main reason was racial. The racial part is just one element. Try reading the thread before you comment.

SkletonKee said:

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I tell you what stay of discussions that tax your brain.
The comments made by the some of the Revolution members appear in the DMSR book. I am not making them up.

laurarichardson said:

I wasn't talking about you baby, I was talking 2 whoever brought up the RACIAL MESS.

Harlepolis said:

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I not your baby and you did not mention who you refering the racial mess to. Most of my comments are about the racial aspects of the whole revolution thing.

LauraRichardson is right,those racial comments came from Matt and Bobby,and it's all in the 'DMSR' book.I know it's an ugly topic to bring up,but THEY said it!

laurarichardson said:

No you're not, I said that 2 light up the whole thang but seems that it didn't work out,,,

And why do you talk 2 me like I'm pointing fingers on you?? Stop acting sooo damn sensitive and don't you dare reply to me and act all defensive when I didn't even mention yo name.

I'm not scared of you, If you said something I don't like then I would've mention yo name or reply 2 you with a quote but I didn't so stop tripping.
[This message was edited Mon Oct 21 12:15:00 PDT 2002 by Harlepolis]

Harlepolis said:

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From your comments I assumed you meant me. Perhaps I was wrong. I did not say anything about anyone being scared. Please explain were that is coming from. It is to bad this thread is going to end on a bad note. We were all on a really interesting topic.

C'mon ladies,let's not fight

This was actually an interesting topic,btw.

DavidEye said:

I wasn't fighting nor do I want to.

But somehow this topic flopped into a "RACIAL ISSUE" I mean DAYMN I'm dealing with a lot of old folks in my life who can't get over this black/white bullshit and now someone here want 2 bring it into my threads???

Once again I'm not talking about you LAURA. Anyway, I hope ppl here talk with much sense this time.

Peace

From the facts stated in DMSR by the former band folks it seems that although sad, the accusations may be true. I see it on Behind the Music all the time and bands who have been together for much longer break up for far less important reasons. Its a drag to think that race could have played a factor, but judging by the comments DavidEye and so many others were referring to, it is possible. If that is a possibility, then ofcourse it would surface here.