Oh, and the reason I was noting Susan Moonsie's race... was because some people seemed to think that Prince doesn't seriously date black women... and every time people will point out Susan Moonsie, Nona Gaye, Cat, Robin Powers...
to me, Susan being Venezuelan to me supports the assertion that Prince doesn't date black women.

This thread has gotten way out of hand.
[Edited 5/24/07 21:19pm]

prodigalfan said:

But that makes no sense. You can be black and Venezuelen just like you can be black and American. That's a nationality, not a race. Like I said earlier, there were more Africans taken to Brazil than were taken to the United States. Africans were taken all over the Americas. Why are black people in North America Black but black people in Latin America are not?...just because they speak Spanish????? My skin is a whole lot lighter than Susan's. You mean to tell me that just because I was born in America ans she was born in Venezuela that I'm black and she's not. Both of our anscestors are African, they just got sent to different places.
North AMerican black people may be more mixed with English, while Latin black people may be mixed with Spanish, but the last time I checked, Spain and England were both in Europe, and both continents had native Indians added into the mix, so what is your point?
[Edited 5/24/07 22:14pm]

wlcm2thdwn said:

You know how it is when someone bring race into it.

illimack said:

You are right... I am uncomfortable having this dialogue because I have seen in the past... and it never ends well.

But back to your earlier post... Venezuelan and Black (African) seems more "exotic" than most. Maybe it is the accent, the whole island flair.

Once again... I am merely pointing out that Susan Moonsie, seem more exotic and a little different than the other "black" women that have been linked to Prince.

Mani for instance... She is African (Egyptian) and Italian... no one seem to mind that she is not being grouped with other Black women that Prince has dated/married. Why Susan Moonsie, and not Manuela Testolini?

prodigalfan said:

Chile, I consider Mani Black! Have u seen her mom.....she looks just like Anita Baker. I was talking about the women that were not bi-racial though. Mani has a white father and Vanity has a white mother, that is why they are not included in the lists that I gave of Sistas.

illimack said:[quote]

prodigalfan said:

Actually I do too... (I get so tired of people who can't accept that Prince might find a black woman attractive that I point to Mani's mom as a way of shutting them up) but then get pangs of guiltbecause actually Egypt is more middle East region than African. Africa is such a HUGE continent...
Chances are some of Mani's maternal relatives are Muslim... so more Middle East than African.

I can see your distinction... biracial (white) vs Moonsie being half black and half ???

So you group her with Black women because she is 100% "person of color"?

I can see that... but I know some "brothers" who will date anything as long she is mixed with "something else" but stops short of dating white or biracial /white becuase of being "politically correct" or their momma not approving etc.
Prince comes across as one of these brothas. Cat, Robin and Nona being the exception (that we know of).

Dang! I know this thread is going to close....

So sorry, I knew when I posted that first post it was going to go down like this... but I had to talk about Moonsie... always wanted to debate about her inclusion to "black women that Prince dated" club.

[Edited 5/24/07 22:56pm]

illimack said:

These types of thread always make me chuckle Did Robin really date Prince for two years? Where did he find the time? lol...in 1988,he was supposedly engaged to Sheila E! "He likes Cat",Sheila insisted.Also,in 1989,he was dating Kim Basinger...wouldn't this have been the same time that Robin was supposedly "dating" him too? It's well-known that Prince was engaged to Nona Gaye in 1993 or so,but surely he was also fooling around with Mayte too? (this was during the whole "rock soap opera" era,when he based an entire album around her)

I guess my point is...despite what these ladies may think,I don't think Prince was serious about anyone back then.He was a total player.To them,it was "dating" but to him,it was just a booty call.

prodigalfan said:

Race and nationality are two VERY different things. Susan’s people are considered Venezuelan, if that's their nation of origin, but it has no impact on their race they could still be “black” or of African descent. I myself am from Panama, a Spanish speaking country, not far from Venezuela, that was settled by the Spaniards and originally inhabited by Indians. However, I am VERY dark complexioned because my great grandparents came from Jamaica when they were building the canal. And now Panama is probably 40% “black.” In addition, MOST Central and South American countries participated in the slave trade and have a large "black" population as a result.

I consider myself Panamanian first and foremost but that's my nationality not my race. Racially I'm black or of African descent. I think the problem with these labels is that in the US people tend to categorize themselves and each other largely by race, Black, White, Indian, etc. However, in foreign countries, most people identify with their nationality first with a disregard for their race. For example, all Jamaicans will tell you they're Jamaican but there's a huge Chinese and Indian (from India) population that settled on the island due to trade. Not to mention the many whites from England. Bob Marley himself was half white but looks completely "black" to me which is why you can't go by looks. However, after many generations on the island these people of varying national origin consider themselves Jamaican. As a matter of fact the national motto is: "Out of many, one people"

The US is the only country that I’m aware of that does this African-American, Italian-American, Irish-American stuff. Black folks born in France tell you they’re French, the black English folks I’ve met say they’re English. They may clarify their background but they don’t label themselves the way it’s done in the US. Just some food for thought. . .

BTW, I think a thread like this is a good thing IF it promotes discourse, the sharing of information, civility and mutual respect, which so far has occurred here. How else are people supposed to learn about each other if there's no dialogue???? Education and information are the key. We need to stop tiptoeing around race because that just adds to the problem and ignorance.
[Edited 5/25/07 17:47pm]

SoulAlive said:

I guess that's why Sheila stated in another article that her and Prince didn't get married because he was dating too many other women. And don't forget Carmen Electra she was also in the mix during the Nona/Mayte era. That's why he's a P-I-M-P! And these women know what's going on but they still tolerate it.
[Edited 5/25/07 8:49am]

...
[Edited 5/25/07 7:38am]

prodigalfan said:

Now I MUST comment on this whole "Middle Eastern" thing. In all reality the "Middle East" is a myth and there is no such place. Egypt being part of the "Middle East" was introduced as a way to extract it from the African continent of which it is most definitely a part of and to deny the huge role and impact that many African countries had in shaping the "Golden Age" of Egypt. It also allows people to ignore the fact that many of the pharoahs were actually from Kush, and therefore black Africans, which is modern day Ethiopia and Sudan. As for the other countries in the "Middle East" they are actually in Asia. This is a misconception that gets propagated that must be stopped, just look at a map.

prodigalfan said:

It's all good!

--
[Edited 5/25/07 8:48am]

SCNDLS said:

I wasn't going to go there so thank you for saying what I was thinking.

SCNDLS said:

a bit off-topic but didn't slaves build the pyramids? and what's so cool about generations of rulers/pharoahs who took all the treasures and gold for themselves and stashed it inside the tombs in which they were buried instead of bettering the lives of their people??

XxAxX said:

Actually, that's another HUGE misconception, slaves did not build the pyramids that's another myth. Check out this article by Harvard Magazine http://www.harvardmagazin...70391.html

And I really wasn't commenting on whether the pharoahs were right or wrong, rather on the rationale behind why Egypt is often extracted from being part of Africa. But in reality, throughout the ages and around the world wasn't there ALWAYS one group or another, usually a small minority, that subjugated, oppressed, and took advantage of another group of people???? So what the pharoahs/rulers of Egypt did was not at all unique to Egypt or that time. It still happens today.
[Edited 5/25/07 11:01am]

SCNDLS said:

great post. and thanks for the info about Chinese Jamacians... I had no idea there was a large chinese community in Jamaica.
I think there is something to be said about the "racial profiling" that goes on here in USA. Because for the most part, people do go by appearances which is incorrect.
The example of Bob Marley being half white. Again, I didn't know that. And you are right... he "appears" to be "all black".

SCNDLS said:[quote]

prodigalfan said:

But many people who now live in Egypt immigrated from areas of Mesopotamia (sp?) and that group is identified by many of the "middle east" region as being their ancestry.

I also was surprise to see people from Sudan who look similiar to me, and others who look more ... Indian maybe??
I knew a girl Ethiopia who was very dark, darker than me with curly black hair, and the most incredible big green eyes. her features looked similar to the bust of Nefertetti.
I wonder how that mix occured, since Ethiopia and Sudan are countries on African continent.
I love to learn about people's cultures, ancestry, history etc. Especially in that region. It helps one understand another person's perspective and motivation to act a certain way. (I don't want to start a dialogue on Middle East and African conflicts... but I am refering to learning the motivation and history behind this./)

SCNDLS said:

and the fact is... I believe that every group would do the same if they could have the means and opportunity. It is nature to desire power and dominance. Even in the animal kingdom, the stronger lion or bull will have the best home, best food, most females etc.
[Edited 5/25/07 13:47pm]

prodigalfan said:

Thanks, honey. I wasn't aware of the Chinese/Jamaican conncection until I dated a Jamaican guy that actually looked Latino. In fact, Hispanics were always coming up to him speaking Spanish, which he doesn't speak, when in fact it's MY first language. But I don't fit the "profile" of a Latina cuz I look "Black."

Anyway, his last name was Lee and I didn't think anything of it until I saw a picture of his father back in Jamaica. He looked straight Asian but with a tan. Turns out his grandmother was darker than me and his grandfather was 100% Chinese and born in Jamaica. And his father was a 3rd generation Jamaican. After discovering this I was like, "Oh, so you a for REAL Lee, like from China, huh?" Another example of why you can't go by "looks" cuz you never know what's going on in someone's background.

One more thing, when I went back home to Panama a couple years ago I noticed the large number of Chinese Panamanians that have been living there for generations. So you have all these Chinese looking folks, speaking Spanish, and dancing salsa and owning all the convenience stores. I hate to feed a stereotype but that shits is true. Lee's family in Jamaica ALSO owned a convenience store. WTF????

Oh and I forgot to add, Halle is crazy as hell and need to stay away from Prince. (Just bringing it back on topic. . . kinda. )

prodigalfan said:

I was moreso referring to the term "Middle East" which was coined by the British in the early 1900s and basically ignores that Egypt is in Africa. The people of the region are VERY racially mixed due to migration and trade which is why you'll find very dark skinned people in Egypt, Iran, Jordan, and India and Muslims all throughout Africa not just in the "Middle East."
[Edited 5/25/07 14:03pm]

SCNDLS said:

Thank SCNDLS for adding more perspective to this discussion. That was my point from the beginning. Race and nationality are two separate things.

Prodigalfan, this is exactly what I was talking about with regard to exposure. Even before I went to Jamaica, I knew that the Chinese had been there for generations. As a Bob Marley fan, I knew his father was white, but most people don't believe me when I tell them that. Again, it goes to people's limited perceptions of what "black" or "biracial" people look like. Actually, a Chinese Jamaican owned one of the first recording studios were Bob Marley and the Wailers recorded their early songs. There is also a large Indian community in Jamaica as well.

My neighbor who is a black Panamanian (like you SCNDLS) asked if my family was Latino because we were listening to old school salsa one day. People, including other Latinos, have mistaken my family for Latino on other occasions as well, and we are light brown in complexion. I think that when people are exposed to different races in different nations, they have a better understanding of the myriad appearances that "black" or "biracial" people have. I've been fortunate enough to travel and to have friends from different countries and races, so I have seen the vast array of colors, features, hair textures, etc. of "black" people. So if someone says they're black, I don't question it regardless of how they look. I really don't have a perception of what a "black" person looks like.

I think these race discussions can be very healthy as long as people come to them with facts and not emotion. So bravo to everyone for not letting this one "go there."

PS I've always considered Mani black/biracial. I never understand when people say that she is not.

bellanoche said:

No problem I LOVE discussions like this and everyone is being so cool! Love it!

bellanoche said:

MOST people don't know he was half white and ridiculed and bullied when he was young because of his mixed heritage. His father was actually a plantation overseer when he met Bob's mother. So that scenario is not unique to the US. Another interesting Bob fact is that he was only 5'4" tall. I guess it's something about those short, musical geniuses that be driving the women wild. LOL! Cuz Bob was a sho' nuf pimp just like Prince except Bob had 13 kids with EIGHT baby mommas.

bellanoche said:

Panamanians in the house!!!
[Edited 5/25/07 15:00pm]

SCNDLS said:

I want to thank everyone for an enlightening conversation about race and nationality. I sho got my coat tails pulled on the Jamiacan Chinese.
too funny about an Asian, speaking spanish and dancing to salsa, owning all the convenience stores. That will really the racists... they won't know what to call them, or know just how they are to blame for all the troubles of the world.


and to get back on topic...
I agree there is something not right about Halle... she is very beautiful and seems sweet and sincere, but that makes 2 men who basically did the same thing... how come she keeps hooking up with the same type? and also when breaking up with David... she contemplated and planned suicide. I am sorry, I don't care how bad my heart was broken... I look that dayum good, got that much money, got that career... I would not be looking for an "way out". Hell, I had my heart broken... and I have average looks and was broke as hell AND BAD CREDIT... trust me, killing MYSELF was not my thoughts... maybe him, or her (chick on the side) but not myself.

prodigalfan said:

She's been telling that same sob story about how she was sitting in her car in her garage with her two lil dogs and was gonna kill herself for TEN years now. I'm tired of her casting herself as a victim in real life just to talk about how strong she is. We get it already, it's hard for beautiful people too, can we move on now?

Kinda like how Mary J gets on my damn nerves by CONSTANTLY bringing up her own emotional problems. Didn't you work that stuff out with the No More Drama album that came out SIX years ago??? So why are you on Oprah, again, this year rehashing the same ol' drama???

Halle has had issues with men other than just David Justice and Eric, she had issues with Christopher Williams and Wesley Snipes too. Some ex boyfriend was whuppin her ass and actually made her deaf in one ear. The rumor was it was Wesley but he denies it, but I heard from others that it was actually Christopher "Don't Wake Me, I'm Dreamin'" Williams. Uh oh, I just realized she was messing around with TWO guys around the same time that costarred in New Jack City together. Ewwwww that's kinda nasty, but oh well. . .

Anyway, here's an interesting article that talks about how Halle's suicide story has changed over the last 10 years when she first told the suicide story to Ebony magazine. http://entertainment.bodo...45025.html Her ass is CRAZY! Prince has enough issues of his own without hooking up with Halle. Prince is so diabolical and pimpish he might just drive her over the edge and mess around and get capped. Cuz when a woman's fed up . . .
[Edited 5/25/07 22:27pm]

Of all the women listed they or either biracial or really light skinned black women..oh well I guess he likes his women to look like him I guess we all have our preferences in dating, but I do think that Prince has an issue with racial identity. He cast a white woman as his mother in Purple Rain and we all know that both of his parent were black...I think its great to talk about other peoples ideas about race that is how changes come through discussion.

keir482 said:

I agree,we all have our preference but I do think that Prince did struggle with some race issues in his past.But I do understand where he was coming from when he tried 2 appear bi-racial 2 his audience.A lot of white people would have not even been interested in him if they couldnt identify 2 his fake white side.Many people still believe that he is 1/2 Italian or atleast they choose 2believe it, and alot of the Black people who know that its untrue hate that...and also Robin Power explained in her thread that Prince had color issues.She said that if Prince saw 2 black women and the darker one was better looking he would still choose the lighter skinned women.Now,having a preference and that is a whole different kind of thing.
oh,and 2 SCNDLS

PleasurePrinciple said:

Hey, mamacita!