Until such time as there are enough active moderators to allow someone to moderate P&R full time....it cannot be done effectively on a part time basis.

As I have said before, there are only four active mods even though several more are listed. This is not a criticism of those people by any means, because they cannot be everywhere. They have too much on their plate.

Given the contentious nature of that forum and the absence of restraint at times, it has turned into a free-for-all where people no longer debate ideas in a rational, truthful manner.

Most threads in P&R do not stay on topic past the first three or four replies and there are threads there now that have nothing to do with politics or religion....they are just regular news items.

Absolutely nothing wrong with a heated debate but when it turns into bullying, lying, trolling, and baiting just to grandstand for attention, there's no way a decent discussion can take place.

Mach was the last person who was able to be present enough to effectively moderate that forum and my suggestion is that until someone else is able to commit the same amount of time, it should be shut down.

My two cents.

^^Well after all this time at least you finally posted something that's actually funny...

there was a terrorist attack in australia... when someone started a thread about it, one member chose to totally derail the thread from the get-go... it was reported multiple times, and eventually the thread was deleted, so the discussion regarding the actual topic couldn't continue... there was no accountability for the member that destroyed the thread

the next day, another member took a different thread off topic with baiting.. it was repoted... he was banned (not saying he souldn't have been)

unbelievable

so yeah, i agree, shut that shit down

i agree too. it's a joke.

it used to be really interesting and intelligent, but the neglect and refusal of mods to enforce bans, rules, or any kind of order there has left it a cesspool of nonsense.

people who have been repeatedly perma-banned just come back with a new screen name, people troll in the most ridiculous ways, and threads go down in flames 3 replies in because attention seeking nutjobs take it wildly off-topic with utter drivel. they know the mods wont do anything about it.

its a shame, but... unless we can get a mod who gives a crap, its worthless.

PANDURITO said:

lol how about 'Enter At Your Own Risk'

I must admit when I entered a while ago it was not exactly friendly, almost as if the people that were there were just living there and waiting to attack new people. I got attacked and have not been attacked since because I'm guessing some were warned or whatever. Things seem to have calmed down now though. Perhaps the recent events in the media have stirred up a lot of feelings. I guess the internet is the only place they can vent their frustrations. But attacking members is just plain childish.

I really can't believe this is an actual thread.

Never before have I seen a request to close an entire forum. History being made right here, congrats.

Some of you don't like the way P&R is being monitored & enforced, so it's "Burn This Bitch Down" ... that's the solution, eh?

Some of you no longer enjoy P&R, so you want it shut down so that NOBODY ELSE can enjoy it. If YOU aren't getting your way and having fun, nobody else should be able to do so ... ain't that right?

Well as sort of an independent observer who hasn't been posting there long enough to know anyone's history, I have found P&R to be moderated as well as can be expected. It's free of personal attacks and namecalling, which I think is great. People are allowed to express their opinion as long as they back it up, which is great. I've seen mods encourage positive, constructive dialogue by starting posts and responding to others, which is great.

Perhaps instead of blaming mod enforcement for the current condition of an area such as P&R, members should look in the mirror and ask how it got to be what it is today? Seems to me there's a whole lotta negativity, anger and a bit of a mob mentality going on in there. Sometimes you hafta step back from something to get the true picture, because if you're too close the picture can be a bit blurry.

There's probably thousands of members who visit the org on a regular basis, why do you think there's only seemingly 5 to 10 of them posting regularly in P&R? Perhaps because to the average orger it's not a particularly inviting sight to see 90% of the first page of thread topics all highly critical of white cops? Perhaps because the majority of orgers don't feel comfortable expressing how they feel in P&R because of a justified fear of being bullied by those who disagree?

So rather than shutting this P&R bitch down, how about this:

1) Report threads and messages you find to be offensive or disruptive
2) Ignore members whom you don't like

3) Ignore the whole damn P&R forum if you no longer enjoy it


Personally I think what P&R needs is more LUST.

What is LUST?

Listen to what others have to say

Understand where they are coming from

Support their right to express their opinion, even if it is different from yours

Trust that their differing opinion is not an attack on you, it's just a reflection of them

Pokeno4Money said:

Never before have I seen a request to close an entire forum. History being made right here, congrats.

actually, there has been at least one forum created and shut down on the org that i know of for sure.

maybe know your org history before declaring its being made.

and every single person agreeing is a longtime vet of that forum. like well over a decade vets. we know what were talking about.


.

[Edited 12/22/14 17:39pm]

cborgman said:

Pokeno4Money said:

Never before have I seen a request to close an entire forum. History being made right here, congrats.

actually, there has been at least one forum created and shut down on the org that i know of for sure.

maybe know your org history before declaring its being made.

and every single person agreeing is a longtime vet of that forum. like well over a decade vets. we know what were talking about.


.

[Edited 12/22/14 17:39pm]

Regardless of the fact I wrote "never before have I seen", was the forum you reference closed because of a public request by members?

Because to the best of my knowledge, in the history of community websites (such as The Org) a forum has never been closed down due to the demands of it's members ... and just four members at that.

Yes, internet forums have been shut down either because the admin/owner didn't like what was going on in said forum OR because the admin/owner no longer wanted to allocate their or anyone else's time and/or resources OR because of a lack of activity due to members losing interest and leaving.

But for members to successfully demand the closure of an active forum? And just four members at that? Unprecedented.

[Edited 12/22/14 18:13pm]

Lets boot P&R and replace it with a 18+ area

LadyCasanova said:

Lets boot P&R and replace it with a 18+ area

they had a sex forum here...it didn't last

MoBettaBliss said:

LadyCasanova said:

Lets boot P&R and replace it with a 18+ area

they had a sex forum here...it didn't last

Differnt times and different people, we could give it another go.

Also, sex forum is not the same as 18+ section.

[Edited 12/23/14 2:50am]

Pokeno4Money said:

cborgman said:

actually, there has been at least one forum created and shut down on the org that i know of for sure.

maybe know your org history before declaring its being made.

and every single person agreeing is a longtime vet of that forum. like well over a decade vets. we know what were talking about.


.

[Edited 12/22/14 17:39pm]

Regardless of the fact I wrote "never before have I seen", was the forum you reference closed because of a public request by members?

Because to the best of my knowledge, in the history of community websites (such as The Org) a forum has never been closed down due to the demands of it's members ... and just four members at that.

Yes, internet forums have been shut down either because the admin/owner didn't like what was going on in said forum OR because the admin/owner no longer wanted to allocate their or anyone else's time and/or resources OR because of a lack of activity due to members losing interest and leaving.

But for members to successfully demand the closure of an active forum? And just four members at that? Unprecedented.

[Edited 12/22/14 18:13pm]

yes. there was a forum on this site that was both opened and closed because of the the request of those of us that were members.

i am willing to bet the 4 people (and probably pandurito) could name it, too.

ben had little to do with it other than approving our requests for it to be open, and then approving our requests to have it closed. ben is kind of cool and hands-off that way.

so, no... its not even remotely unprecedented.

MoBettaBliss said:

LadyCasanova said:

Lets boot P&R and replace it with a 18+ area

they had a sex forum here...it didn't last

yup.

LadyCasanova said:

MoBettaBliss said:

they had a sex forum here...it didn't last

Differnt times and different people, we could give it another go.

Also, sex forum is not the same as 18+ section.

[Edited 12/23/14 2:50am]

if memory correctly serves, it was called "sex & romance" after DMSR.

it was both opened and shut down by member request.

cborgman said:

LadyCasanova said:

Differnt times and different people, we could give it another go.

Also, sex forum is not the same as 18+ section.

[Edited 12/23/14 2:50am]

if memory correctly serves, it was called "sex & romance" after DMSR.

it was both opened and shut down by member request.

Sounds very much like it was opened on a trial basis.

Getting back on topic, how does less than a handful of members have the right to demand a forum be closed?

If the forum was as bad as those four members say, nobody would be posting there and it'd look like this

And if anybody has a right to make such a demand, it would be the mod or mods who are not only putting forth the time and effort to keep the forum friendly and active but who are also volunteering their own personal time for the enjoyment of others. I think we need to show a little more respect and appreciation for what mods do, and a little more understanding in that this is NOT their fulltime job. They have lives in the real world, they cannot be expected to be working P&R 24/7 especially considering there's members here from all over the world in many different time zones so it's not like there's ever a "slow period" each day.

Oh, and it's just been brought to my attention that 3 of the 4 who wish to shut down P&R - INCLUDING THE OP - has continued to post in P&R! Do you realize how ridiculous that looks? Folks publicly bashing a forum, saying how crappy it is, saying how it should be shut down ... but apparently that same damn crappy forum they want shut down is still so appealing to them that they can't help themselves from continuing to post there!

It's the equivalent of protesters trying to get a restaurant shut down because they don't like the way it's being run, and yet those same protesters continue to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner at that same damn restaurant every damn day!

Pokeno4Money said:

cborgman said:

if memory correctly serves, it was called "sex & romance" after DMSR.

it was both opened and shut down by member request.

Sounds very much like it was opened on a trial basis.

Getting back on topic, how does less than a handful of members have the right to demand a forum be closed?

If the forum was as bad as those four members say, nobody would be posting there and it'd look like this

And if anybody has a right to make such a demand, it would be the mod or mods who are not only putting forth the time and effort to keep the forum friendly and active but who are also volunteering their own personal time for the enjoyment of others. I think we need to show a little more respect and appreciation for what mods do, and a little more understanding in that this is NOT their fulltime job. They have lives in the real world, they cannot be expected to be working P&R 24/7 especially considering there's members here from all over the world in many different time zones so it's not like there's ever a "slow period" each day.

Oh, and it's just been brought to my attention that 3 of the 4 who wish to shut down P&R - INCLUDING THE OP - has continued to post in P&R! Do you realize how ridiculous that looks? Folks publicly bashing a forum, saying how crappy it is, saying how it should be shut down ... but apparently that same damn crappy forum they want shut down is still so appealing to them that they can't help themselves from continuing to post there!

It's the equivalent of protesters trying to get a restaurant shut down because they don't like the way it's being run, and yet those same protesters continue to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner at that same damn restaurant every damn day!

calm down

some people are giving their opinion on something... in the appropriate forum to do so

as for people still posting there... i've made one post there since my post in this thread, to comment on the fact the two police officers were shot

i think the p&r forum is a cesspool... worse than ever... it's generally only a handful of people that post there... and there's very little 'open discussion'... where people take on board the opinion of others' if it differs from theirs

over the years here that forum has been the starting point for so much conflict on this site... i honestly think prince.org would be better off without it (which seems to be a different view from the op... my understanding is that she's just requesting tighter moderation of the forum)

MoBettaBliss said:

Pokeno4Money said:

Sounds very much like it was opened on a trial basis.

Getting back on topic, how does less than a handful of members have the right to demand a forum be closed?

If the forum was as bad as those four members say, nobody would be posting there and it'd look like this

And if anybody has a right to make such a demand, it would be the mod or mods who are not only putting forth the time and effort to keep the forum friendly and active but who are also volunteering their own personal time for the enjoyment of others. I think we need to show a little more respect and appreciation for what mods do, and a little more understanding in that this is NOT their fulltime job. They have lives in the real world, they cannot be expected to be working P&R 24/7 especially considering there's members here from all over the world in many different time zones so it's not like there's ever a "slow period" each day.

Oh, and it's just been brought to my attention that 3 of the 4 who wish to shut down P&R - INCLUDING THE OP - has continued to post in P&R! Do you realize how ridiculous that looks? Folks publicly bashing a forum, saying how crappy it is, saying how it should be shut down ... but apparently that same damn crappy forum they want shut down is still so appealing to them that they can't help themselves from continuing to post there!

It's the equivalent of protesters trying to get a restaurant shut down because they don't like the way it's being run, and yet those same protesters continue to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner at that same damn restaurant every damn day!

calm down

some people are giving their opinion on something... in the appropriate forum to do so

as for people still posting there... i've made one post there since my post in this thread, to comment on the fact the two police officers were shot

i think the p&r forum is a cesspool... worse than ever... it's generally only a handful of people that post there... and there's very little 'open discussion'... where people take on board the opinion of others' if it differs from theirs

over the years here that forum has been the starting point for so much conflict on this site... i honestly think prince.org would be better off without it (which seems to be a different view from the op... my understanding is that she's just requesting tighter moderation of the forum)

She is suggesting 'the P&R Forum Needs to Close'

until someone else is able to commit the same amount of time, it should be shut down.

MoBettaBliss said:

Pokeno4Money said:

Sounds very much like it was opened on a trial basis.

Getting back on topic, how does less than a handful of members have the right to demand a forum be closed?

If the forum was as bad as those four members say, nobody would be posting there and it'd look like this

And if anybody has a right to make such a demand, it would be the mod or mods who are not only putting forth the time and effort to keep the forum friendly and active but who are also volunteering their own personal time for the enjoyment of others. I think we need to show a little more respect and appreciation for what mods do, and a little more understanding in that this is NOT their fulltime job. They have lives in the real world, they cannot be expected to be working P&R 24/7 especially considering there's members here from all over the world in many different time zones so it's not like there's ever a "slow period" each day.

Oh, and it's just been brought to my attention that 3 of the 4 who wish to shut down P&R - INCLUDING THE OP - has continued to post in P&R! Do you realize how ridiculous that looks? Folks publicly bashing a forum, saying how crappy it is, saying how it should be shut down ... but apparently that same damn crappy forum they want shut down is still so appealing to them that they can't help themselves from continuing to post there!

It's the equivalent of protesters trying to get a restaurant shut down because they don't like the way it's being run, and yet those same protesters continue to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner at that same damn restaurant every damn day!

calm down

some people are giving their opinion on something... in the appropriate forum to do so

as for people still posting there... i've made one post there since my post in this thread, to comment on the fact the two police officers were shot

i think the p&r forum is a cesspool... worse than ever... it's generally only a handful of people that post there... and there's very little 'open discussion'... where people take on board the opinion of others' if it differs from theirs

over the years here that forum has been the starting point for so much conflict on this site... i honestly think prince.org would be better off without it (which seems to be a different view from the op... my understanding is that she's just requesting tighter moderation of the forum)

What makes you think I'm not calm, the wink emoticon or the lol emoticon?

I'm just giving my opinion too. In my opinion, publicly demanding that a forum be shut down because less than a handful of members don't like the way it's being moderated ... is wrong.

Based on this message pinned at the top of P&R, it sounds like the forum wasn't exactly perfect 5 years ago either.

http://prince.org/msg/105/322014

Did you demand it be shut down back then too? Somehow it survived 5 more years.

Respect to the mods and members who have done what they can to improve P&R rather than wanting to burn the ... err, shut down the forum.

Pokeno4Money said:

MoBettaBliss said:

calm down

some people are giving their opinion on something... in the appropriate forum to do so

as for people still posting there... i've made one post there since my post in this thread, to comment on the fact the two police officers were shot

i think the p&r forum is a cesspool... worse than ever... it's generally only a handful of people that post there... and there's very little 'open discussion'... where people take on board the opinion of others' if it differs from theirs

over the years here that forum has been the starting point for so much conflict on this site... i honestly think prince.org would be better off without it (which seems to be a different view from the op... my understanding is that she's just requesting tighter moderation of the forum)

What makes you think I'm not calm, the wink emoticon or the lol emoticon?

I'm just giving my opinion too. In my opinion, publicly demanding that a forum be shut down because less than a handful of members don't like the way it's being moderated ... is wrong.

Based on this message pinned at the top of P&R, it sounds like the forum wasn't exactly perfect 5 years ago either.

http://prince.org/msg/105/322014

Did you demand it be shut down back then too? Somehow it survived 5 more years.

Respect to the mods and members who have done what they can to improve P&R rather than wanting to burn the ... err, shut down the forum.

yea, those rules were put into place to make it better. and they did.

for instance... the "provide commentary" rule was put into place because a few orgers had a terrible habit of posting very incidienary videos and articles. they would put them up just to rile people up. if it got bad enough that he started to look like an awful person for posting it, he would then say he didnt agree with it, he just thought someone should mention it.

however, that message and those rules are no longer enforced, which has made much worse than it was back then.

[Edited 12/23/14 12:42pm]

Pokeno4Money said:

cborgman said:

if memory correctly serves, it was called "sex & romance" after DMSR.

it was both opened and shut down by member request.

Sounds very much like it was opened on a trial basis.

Getting back on topic, how does less than a handful of members have the right to demand a forum be closed?

If the forum was as bad as those four members say, nobody would be posting there and it'd look like this

And if anybody has a right to make such a demand, it would be the mod or mods who are not only putting forth the time and effort to keep the forum friendly and active but who are also volunteering their own personal time for the enjoyment of others. I think we need to show a little more respect and appreciation for what mods do, and a little more understanding in that this is NOT their fulltime job. They have lives in the real world, they cannot be expected to be working P&R 24/7 especially considering there's members here from all over the world in many different time zones so it's not like there's ever a "slow period" each day.

Oh, and it's just been brought to my attention that 3 of the 4 who wish to shut down P&R - INCLUDING THE OP - has continued to post in P&R! Do you realize how ridiculous that looks? Folks publicly bashing a forum, saying how crappy it is, saying how it should be shut down ... but apparently that same damn crappy forum they want shut down is still so appealing to them that they can't help themselves from continuing to post there!

It's the equivalent of protesters trying to get a restaurant shut down because they don't like the way it's being run, and yet those same protesters continue to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner at that same damn restaurant every damn day!

The thing is, part of the problem happens when people continually insist on trying to change what is being said to fit some narrative in their head instead of commenting on what was actually written. Why are you implying that anyone has disrespected the mods for example or asked them to work the forum 24/7? That tactic ain't gonna work.

Please show us where any kind of "demand" whatsoever has been made? I see the words "suggestion" and "request" being used. A suggestion was made to "temporarily" close the forum until such time as we have mod who does have the time to spend in P&R. No shade at all to anybody who doesn't. Ideally no one should have to be in charge of more than two forums at the most IMO.

Secondly, those of us who are regulars in P&R have seen the difference that having a full time mod makes. And yes, members have a "right" to make any suggestion or request that does not violate the org rules whether you like it or not, so that is a meaningless statement.

Furthermore, continuing to post there further indicates that the intention is not to have it closed permanently, so that is yet another pointless assertion.

Again, debate is all well and good but it doesn't help matters when people manufacture things that were never said except in their imagination.

cborgman said:

yea, those rules were put into place to make it better. and they did.

for instance... the "provide commentary" rule was put into place because a few orgers had a terrible habit of posting very incidienary videos and articles. they would put them up just to rile people up. if it got bad enough that he started to look like an awful person for posting it, he would then say he didnt agree with it, he just thought someone should mention it.

however, that message and those rules are no longer enforced, which has made much worse than it was back then.

[Edited 12/23/14 12:42pm]

We were cautioned not only to provide commentary but made to stay on topic too.

Remember years ago every mod that was listed was active? Bananacologne, Anx, Sevennynine, Tom...the whole crew? Now less than half of those listed have been heard from for years.

It took that many people to mind the store back then and it still does. Hell, they may need to close a couple more forums in addition to the one I suggested. For example, I have seen suggestions to close the Org Artists forum as well as suggestions to merge some forums with others.

It's sillly to try to pretend that this is some kind of unique idea in org history and as you suggested, people should know their org history before spouting off.

babynoz said:

Pokeno4Money said:

Sounds very much like it was opened on a trial basis.

Getting back on topic, how does less than a handful of members have the right to demand a forum be closed?

If the forum was as bad as those four members say, nobody would be posting there and it'd look like this

And if anybody has a right to make such a demand, it would be the mod or mods who are not only putting forth the time and effort to keep the forum friendly and active but who are also volunteering their own personal time for the enjoyment of others. I think we need to show a little more respect and appreciation for what mods do, and a little more understanding in that this is NOT their fulltime job. They have lives in the real world, they cannot be expected to be working P&R 24/7 especially considering there's members here from all over the world in many different time zones so it's not like there's ever a "slow period" each day.

Oh, and it's just been brought to my attention that 3 of the 4 who wish to shut down P&R - INCLUDING THE OP - has continued to post in P&R! Do you realize how ridiculous that looks? Folks publicly bashing a forum, saying how crappy it is, saying how it should be shut down ... but apparently that same damn crappy forum they want shut down is still so appealing to them that they can't help themselves from continuing to post there!

It's the equivalent of protesters trying to get a restaurant shut down because they don't like the way it's being run, and yet those same protesters continue to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner at that same damn restaurant every damn day!

The thing is, part of the problem happens when people continually insist on trying to change what is being said to fit some narrative in their head instead of commenting on what was actually written. Why are you implying that anyone has disrespected the mods for example or asked them to work the forum 24/7? That tactic ain't gonna work.

Please show us where any kind of "demand" whatsoever has been made? I see the words "suggestion" and "request" being used. A suggestion was made to "temporarily" close the forum until such time as we have mod who does have the time to spend in P&R. No shade at all to anybody who doesn't. Ideally no one should have to be in charge of more than two forums at the most IMO.

Secondly, those of us who are regulars in P&R have seen the difference that having a full time mod makes. And yes, members have a "right" to make any suggestion or request that does not violate the org rules whether you like it or not, so that is a meaningless statement.

Furthermore, continuing to post there further indicates that the intention is not to have it closed permanently, so that is yet another pointless assertion.

Again, debate is all well and good but it doesn't help matters when people manufacture things that were never said except in their imagination.

yup

OldFriends4Sale said:

MoBettaBliss said:

calm down

some people are giving their opinion on something... in the appropriate forum to do so

as for people still posting there... i've made one post there since my post in this thread, to comment on the fact the two police officers were shot

i think the p&r forum is a cesspool... worse than ever... it's generally only a handful of people that post there... and there's very little 'open discussion'... where people take on board the opinion of others' if it differs from theirs

over the years here that forum has been the starting point for so much conflict on this site... i honestly think prince.org would be better off without it (which seems to be a different view from the op... my understanding is that she's just requesting tighter moderation of the forum)

She is suggesting 'the P&R Forum Needs to Close'

until someone else is able to commit the same amount of time, it should be shut down.

Well, not necessarily someone else and just temporarily until you or whomever actually has the time. If you told me you would rather shoot yourself in the foot I would understand. People have burned out working that forum.

For example if you were going to mod P&R it's all well and good but I don't think that we should reasonably expect you to do that and Music and More, aaaand Music, non Prince, etc. I would argue that all three of those require heavy moderation, espcially P&R.

From time to time some of us chime in with a suggestion when we notice things...that's all this is.

If you don't like P&R, then stay out of it. That's a far better solution than acting like a baby and demanding something be taken away.

What's next - are you going to threaten to hold your breath until you turn blue?

RodeoSchro said:

If you don't like P&R, then stay out of it. That's a far better solution than acting like a baby and demanding something be taken away.

What's next - are you going to threaten to hold your breath until you turn blue?

way to misunderstand a request for much needed moderation

werent you just orgnoting me yesterday about how terrible p&r has become?

cborgman said:

RodeoSchro said:

If you don't like P&R, then stay out of it. That's a far better solution than acting like a baby and demanding something be taken away.

What's next - are you going to threaten to hold your breath until you turn blue?

way to misunderstand a request for much needed moderation

werent you just orgnoting me yesterday about how terrible p&r has become?

No, I orgnoted you about how certain posters had contaminated P&R.

But even at that, calling for P&R to be closed is nothing more than acting like a baby. Someone wants it moderated more effectively? OK, fine. But asking for a forum to be closed, and thus unavailable to everyone who ISN'T complaining, just because that person doesn't like the current level of moderation?

That's childish, and there is no other way to put it.

RodeoSchro said: