thedoorkeeper said:

As if that's news. In view of Prince's wonderful treatment of everybody who's supported him over the years, we HAVE been wasting our time.

Thanks for the update Gav. I'm really sorry you had to go through all this for something that was most likely all bark and no bite. "We" all figured as much but it still must have been a pain for all of you who over time has spent so much in all ways imaginable to make an awesome fan community.

m3taverse said:

As always you say what I think. I'm surprised nobody else thought when they read the first part, you can't regulate something like the Internet and certainly not how, what, when and where people express their feelings about another person. As long as it doesn't break any laws you just can't do it. The whole notion is laughable and I just can't believe PFU would even consider discussing it. All that says to me is that PFU were a whole lot more scared about being sued than they let on, more scared than they had to be. I'm sorry to see that but like I said earlier, it's all bark and no bite from Prince anyway. His "exit" from the Internet is his trying to save face, trying to say "I don't care about it anymore anyway".

BTW:

Do we see anything new in the recent happenings when compared to the old GrayZone days of about 1997?
Dorothy Sherman was doing what her rock-star clients hire her to do; now it is an entity named Websheriff. (which is a misleading name, BTW)

Teacher said:

If we'd have rewound a few years then I'd be inclined to agree with you, however at the point of the formation of the PFU, lawsuits were being drawn up in about 4 different countries and for multiple alleged infringements.

Sadly in this day and age, it's not always about who's right and who's wrong but more as to who has the biggest resources to fund a number of major lawsuits.

Ironically, the whole PFU issue going public gave us access to a host of extra resources in the way of pro-bono support. Unfortunately there's no legal way we can force him to sign the agreement with the exception of a declatory judgement which is still possibly (although very messy and not great PR - "Prince's fans sue HIM" isn't the best of headlines).

Gav said:

Gav, now that you have pro bono support why can't you just have them outline what you can and cannot do under the law? Prince ain't signing no agreement. I don't think any major artists signs agreements like that (I'm guessing). I don't know who's idea this was, but you guys are operating a fansite for fun and drafting agreements just seems way too much trouble for what you do. I know Prince made things difficult but I think his company did so because you had no legal backing.

I don't think any agreement is the way to go. You guys just need legal backing and to divert all requests from NPG to a legal representative who knows the law. I'm sure you guys thought of this, perhaps it's too costly, but to me that is the way to go.

Gav said:

You make a good point, I tend to forget it's not really about what the law says but what the wallet says. Thinking about it I'm wondering if the sly sob didn't cover that in his scheming - that you'd never countersue because of how it would look and what impact it would have on the fan communities. I'm very happy to hear you have legal support now too though.
Gav, can I ask you PERSONALLY and not as somebody within PFU - what do YOU think will be the outcome of all this? Do you think he'll just withdraw the suits with as little fuss as possible or regroup and come back with more shit?
If I didn't say it before (can't remember), I'm so sorry this happened to you and I don't think I can still wrap my head around the fact that P actually think like this and that he still has enough yay sayers around him that won't all tell him he's gone the ultimate bonkers. Gav

Gav said:

Why isn't it? I like it!!

BTW, thanks for the update, Gav!

Now for my on the matter...

The update said:

Excuse me???? Y'all were really trying to put together some agreement that would have somehow given Prince some kind of say so on how "all artists interact on the Internet with their fans"?

Thank goodness his ego was in check enough to know that wasn't going to work! Prince...Supreme Ruler of the Internet?

So a "friend" of Sam Jennings thinks "the internet is overrun with criminals, pornographers, people wasting their time, and corporate scammers making money off of it all" eh?

Well I guess said "friend" will be pulling a Howard Hughes and locking himself away somewhere because *NEWSFLASH* the entire world is overrun with criminals, pornographers, people wasting their time, and corporate scammers making money off of it all!!

It's funny though because I remember when listening to a little skinny motherfucker with a high voice wearing a Speedo, thigh hi boots, a trench coat and a whole lot of eyeliner was considered wasting my time because he looked like a pornstar, performed like a criminal (his performances stole a many hearts! ) and corporate scammers were making money off of it all!!

Teacher said:

So sue Prince from e.g. the Netherlands for harassing fans who do nothing bad or wrong.
Over here it's not all payola yet.

udo said:

I think The Netherlands was one of the countries Prince was sueing IN/FROM but I'm not sure. I thought HQ was/is based there. Again, not sure in any way.

You do realise that I couldn't sue Prince just for being an ass don't you? If he'd actually named INDIVIDUALS as private people and not as an owner/operator of a site, then yeah you could countersue I guess. As it is, no. Or rather... if you're really rich, are a lawyer or is married to/fucking one, feel free to try.

Teacher said:

I haven't really seen the cease and desist type of letters various sites/individuals haven been receiving, but perhaps one could sue based on these.
If the letters falsely accuse and put people unnecessarily under pressure (as seen from a Dutch context) there is reason to believe there is a case against Prince or whatever front he is hiding behind.
Interesting would then be if it is possible to sue people closer to Prince than the front he is using. (AEG, Websheriff, etc)

Thank you very much for the report, Gav.

The internet has become such an inseparable part of modern life that it seems quite heroic for someone like Prince to try live without it, quite honestly... but that said, to each his own. It's not especially his right to regulate the habits of others; and it seems crazy to even try. It's time for him to let go, IMHO, and move on.

I wish you all the best of luck.

Heiress said:

Rushing into a burning building to save a person is heroic.

Fighting the internet...it's his fight, more power to him.

ANYTHING is what you make of it.

I have found friends, laughter, timely information and great music on the internet.

Prince sees porn and people wasting time (possibly a mis-quote accredited to him).


The internet is a tool. Take that any way you want to.

Nothinbutjoy said:

udo said:

But the way you put it it sounded like you meant that anybody could sue P. Of course the people being named could do so, but see my earlier post concerning costs.

Gav said:

If you can't control it..... screw it.

Kevin!

For those of you who aren't familiar with our history, Kevin is the co-founder of both prince.org (1999) and its predecessor, the Paisley Park Mailing List (1995).

matt said:

Very

"be in the world, not of it"
certainly doesn't mean "hide away and be a hermit"
why preach to the choir when they already "know" y'know?
jesus himself walked the streets with "sinners"
anyway, my heart goes out to a friend of a "friend"
i once wore those shoes too backinthaday
"thank u" would've been nice
my "brother" scott would agree
[Edited 3/21/08 1:01am]

kevin said:

Hey kevin... I stand in awe... welcome back... I guess?

But you're right... It's an old life lesson...

Bloody hell - Kevin AND Matt make appearances - the PFU are honoured

Now if only I could get Ben "Scarlet Pimpernel" Margolin to reply to my emails, I'd have the full set

Gav said:

"An immediate agreement was put in place (the terms of which we cannot discuss as per the agreement) in order to assist with focus on putting together a landmark agreement that would provide the basis for all artists to interact with their fans on the Internet. The whole team involved in the drafting of this agreement felt that this was a great chance for Prince to again demonstrate thought leadership and innovation with regards to fan interaction."


This reminds me of a thread I started not long ago in the hope of brainstorming ideas for coming up with a distribution - and by extension fan/artist-interaction platform - that would make both Prince and his fans happy.

see "The Ultimate Prince Music Distribution Platform" at http://prince.org/msg/7/263855

I went on [prophetically?] to ask if such a compromise/system could be designed by fans/Org members.
Although my thread generated some unexpectedly 'creative', perhaps a little too unrealsitic answers, there were some very viable proposals, and I have seen here around the Org some very sensible suggestions that could form the basis for such an agreement that the PFU team is trying to draft with Prince's people.

It might sound utopian at this point, but I do believe that a business model that fully embraces audience participation and respects the rights and interests of all parties is possible.
For now all my thoughts go towards the PFU team for smooth and successful negotiations.

Ultimate distribution platform?
If he won't press: bittorrent.
If he does press: make a website for creditcard info, etc. Send out via snailmail.
Or just distribute via normal retail.

hmmm.. yes, but none of these make both sides happy, do they?..

udo said:

kevin said:

Heh..Prince probably has that stuck on his fridge.






forgot the 'n' edit
[Edited 4/7/08 1:18am]

Nikademus said:

So what is the current status?

Could we see some memos, logs, etc to see the current problems (if any) and how they are discussed?
What work is pending? What are the hot issues?
What is legally vague, what has legal definition?

udo said:

Memos? Logs? That's confidential correspondance between companies, nothing that can be put up here.

Prince backing off officially is pending, the hot issue is how many times he'll say he'll miss playing PR live and then do it again the next gig. Legally vague is his relationship with younger women - legal definition, well I ran out of funny.

Almost a month has passed since the previous update.
Any progress?

About the memos: They are deemed confidential only if everybody agrees.
It's also about the fans, that's us. So I'd say we might want to have a look at what's happening.

What should be confidential about the legal issues? Law is in the books. The media carry the news blurbs, so there you have the 'facts' (unless there are better sources). Combine and voila. No need for confidential materials. Openness is key here.