SexyBeautifulOne said:

lol @ you believing that the shit you're saying isn't stupid and that you're not contributing the the climate that could put Prince in harms way. Whatever...just keep spewing your hate.

I

darrenj said:

Where? Show me.

darrenj said:

I did.

LordMarcusMont said:

I bet that's exactly why they are keeping quiet. They know they are on dodgy legal ground. They are hoping to scare the sites into obeying to their agenda.

Going public is the last thing they want. Not from a critical persective, but from a legal one. They'll be found out for the bullies they are.

gemini13 said:

It's gone now. your too late. He said he loves you.

LordMarcusMont said:

I think the problem is web sheriff appear to be contradicting themselves regarding what they are going after

In one email they are clearing going for what they deem to be "libellous" remarks on PFU, in another they are going after bootleg material (quite justifiably)

Where it gets complicated is, in one interview web sheriff states they are only after copyright material, luyrics, recordings etc

In an email sent out they are clearly going for what they regard as "libellous"

The messages they seem to be sending out are confusing to say the least

As for the interview on Sky, if they are going after photos taken by fans, good luck to them, as the expert opinions I have had all state the copyright of the photograph belongs to the photographer

Regardless of the quality

What would help matters is a statement of intent from web sheriff as opposed to this piecemeal approach to the issue and contradictory statements to news agencies

There is also no legal reason why the cease and desist notices and subsequent correspondence cannot be made public either

phineas said:

Where you are factually incorrect is over what material he is going for

Many of the images that web sheriff have demanded be taken down are wholly the property of people who psoted them

If you take a photograph, the intellectual property rights belong to you

Don't take my word for it, check it out on www.statutelaw.gov.uk or the equivalent legal respository in the USA

As to what they public are owed

They are entitled to freedom of speech and expression, they are entitled to go about their business free from harrassment, and they are most certainly entitled to put their own photographs on the internet

I think that after a couple of days and a few kajillion posts, this discussion is devolving and losing focus.

I would invite (or challenge) folks still posting regularly to this thread to go back to the main page and click on the PFU site, and read the press release again.

THAT is what we're discussing. Not whether it's okay to drop the "F" bomb or how provocative we're allowed to be or which internet taunts are going to make sweet little baby Jesus cry purple tears.

Look, I don't think it's cool when people post rage-y, vulgar things about Prince...and chances are, I'm on the same "side" as most of those rage-y people in this situation. I think the legal thuggery is wrong. But I also think we need to express ourselves with some intelligence, respect and dignity...if not because Prince deserves it, then BECAUSE WE DESERVE TO HAVE OURSELVES VIEWED THAT WAY.

I've done a lot of cleaning up of the forums since all this started. I think all the mods have been busy. And after all the work we've done, there's still tons of "questionable" comments out there. Ya know what? I don't have the time to sift through EVERY thread and proofread EVERY rant for instances of "fuck you Prince" or "Prince is a twunt" or whatEVER. I don't get paid for this. None of the mods do.

To sufficiently police every comment posted on this site, we'd need at least one person sitting at a desk dedicated to censoring comments, all day long. I think we all understand that the Org does not have those kinds of resources....SO you'll have to make do with what we Mods are capable of doing, and you'll all have to post with some kind of accountability and mutual respect. That's all ya get. Be happy with it or leave.

Speaking of which, if you're uncomfortable with the profanity and rage you've seen in these forums over the past few days, I gotta just say this: HELLO! WELCOME TO THE INTERNET!

Other sites have responded FAR WORSE than anything I've seen on the Org. Look at the talkback comments on Perez Hilton's site. There's some TRULY RANK stuff being written on there. Go check out the Prince photoshop competition at b3ta.com - not only is much of it absolutely crass, but they're flaunting the controversy in Prince's face by encouraging folks to create image parodies of Prince!

Go ahead - go out there - see how OTHER people are behaving. Makes us look like a bunch of lil' angel foofoo bunnycakes.

Not that this excsues some of the more extreme comments posted on the Org in the past few days (or ever, I guess), but THIS IS THE INTERNET. It's DAMN HARD to control or police people's behavior on here. And the more you try to police people's expression, the more creatively they'll come back to make sure they have their say, their way.

I find that you can only "police" irrational behavior online with reason and respect. Otherwise, you're just fanning the flames. Escalating the situation. Adding gasoline to the bonfire.

And if that reality of this World Wide Interbutts is something that offends your sensibilities or hurts your feelings, then I don't know what to say. Either *BE* the change you want to see in others, or else walk away from the car crash and walk toward the beautiful green hills and play with the butterflies.

I mean, really - what can ya do???

All that said, I'd really like to get back to talking about the issue at hand, if indeed we have anything more to discuss on the topic. And like I suggested at the beginning of all this mess:

KEEP IT CIVIL.

Opinions are like arseholes, everybody has one

PurpleCharm said:

I've been a Prince fan for 29 years, I couldn't hate him if you paid me to. I'm just not accustomed to allowing folks to trample all over my rights. I don't care who they are. If you view that or any of the things I've passionately said on these current events as HATE, then you need to get your damn eyes checked!
[Edited 11/8/07 8:12am]

ehuffnsd said:

why should the music forum suffer? we're here 2 talk about music in the 1st place. if u prefer 2 not participate in that then go 2 the clique side of town that is the GD forum. i wonder if the situation was reveresed and the lawyers were coming 2 attack that side of the org what u would say then?

Markland said:

this is the part i would love 2 c him do.take the stand radical man

SexyBeautifulOne said:

What does being a Prince fan for 29 years have to do with anything? I was saw Prince's ass in concert when he was on tour with Rick James, which was when...'79 or '80, so I go back as long as you do. The difference is I don't feel that Prince is PERSONALLY attacking me. Prince is not my friend, he isn't my daddy, he isn't my lover and he isn't a family member. I have no loyalty to Prince. I am just a random fan that enjoys his music and thinks he's fine. Nothing more and nothing less. I will never get worked up over what he does.
[Edited 11/8/07 8:34am]

m3taverse said:

Well I checked the info offered by this site and apparently he wants these sites to 'cease and desist all use of photographs, images, lyrics, album covers and anything linked to Prince's likeness'. I don't believe it is possible for him to control whether or not we can talk about him or whether we share our pics with friends. I don't see the evidence to back up what you say about how he wants to tell us where and when and how we discuss his music. What he has proposed seems normal in terms of protecting a brand. You can't open the Elvis cafe can you? Why should you be able to start the Prince website? If I am missing some info please fill me in. Oh and the 'get it' which you righfully threw back was deserved. But what's this about NPG music club files not working anymore? Mine never did as I use a Mac and found out their PC luvin files so copied them all via analogue. Has he skanked people on their music files?

mmm...ehhh.

I have just had a look on b3ta.com and I confess I haven't laughed so much in ages

And the best part is, the copyright on those images belongs to the people who made them

Can't wait to see if anyone tries to get those removed

I think some are missing the point in regards to the "owe" us statements. I think that Prince has always missed the boat when its come to some business sense.

No Mars doesn't "owe" their consumers anything BUT its bad for BUSINESS to piss off the consumers. With Prince, its always in his approach. He is an idiot when it comes to how to handle his consumers.

We, as consumers, are use to producers treating their consumers with some level of respect and gratitude because this is how they make their money, supply and demand. Its just a basic business model.

I think what some also aren't getting that this really isn't about just copyright infringement. Personally, I think he wants these sites to close which takes us back to the collective days. This is just a backhanded way to finally come at the sites. I'm sure Mars wouldn't do this to their consumers.

I don't hate Prince. I don't wish him ill will BUT I think he's never had great business skills. Good ideas but he's never really understood how to conduct business appropriately.

phineas said:

This is what Ben has on the home page of this site:



I have no reason to assume Ben is not telling the truth when he says this.

The NPGMC files had Digital Rights Protection crap on them, which is why you couldn't use them on a Mac. The digital licenses to play these files were kept on a server, and with every upgrade of Windows Media Player or Windows, we had to re-update those licenses from the npgmc server to be able to continue playing the files. When NPGMC stopped, so did the licensing server, and that meant those files could no longer work after an upgrade of some sort.
I mentioned this as an example of why we as consumers need flexible and workable fair use legislation and policies in place. Giving a central figure control over how we use music that we have already payed for, in the way that we did with those NPGMC files, basically delivers us to the whims of whomever is in control of the system. And already from experience we know that this is a very bad idea, and something to be wary of.
The type of control Prince is after is not something that we should sheepishly give to him, he has proven that he cannot be trusted with such power.

What I find interesting (in the midst of all of this), is that CJ still has not written a story about this in the Minneapolis Star Tribune. Prince and his lawyers must have sent her a letter or something, telling her that she could not cover this story. Which is interesting, because other newspapers and websites have been talking about this all along. We all know that CJ would be all over this shit and putting in her two cents.

psychodelicide said:

could be that maybe she's finally burned out on her prince-bashing and has found something to finally distract her enough to move on.

unkemptpueblo said:

or will he sue jammie fox 4 the parodies on him during the living colour shows?

phineas said:

The "anything to do with Prince likeness part infringes the intellectual property rights of some fans

Photos they have taken belong to them, not anyone else

The part you are missing is this:

Dear Administrators,

Re : EXTREMELY URGENT / YOUR SITE - LIBEL NOTICE

As you know, Web Sheriff represents AEG Worldwide, Paisley Park Enterprises / NPG Records and PRINCE in relation to – inter alia – the above.

We understand that you (ergo your administrators and moderators personally) control the web-site www.princefansunited.com (hereinafter referred to as the “Libellous Site”). We are writing to advise you that our clients consider the Libellous Site to contain defamatory statements – all under the banner ”PRINCE FANS FIGHT BACK AGAINST ATTACKS” which, in itself, we would also say is defamatory - that both libel PRINCE and, equally, that constitute malicious falsehoods injurious to our clients’ business interests (hereinafter referred to as the “Libellous Statements”) including, but not limited to, the following :-

1. In an extraordinary, but not unfamiliar move, the rock legend Prince is using an army of lawyers to launch attacks on his own fans.

2. It is our belief that these threats are not made in an attempt to enforce valid copyright as Prince alleges in his threats, rather we believe they are attempts to stifle all critical commentary about Prince.

3. It is their hope that Prince will reconsider his position and allow these fansites to continue their existence without constant threats from Prince and his attorneys.

Our clients consider the above statements to be both factually incorrect and misleading and, in all of the circumstances, we would ask you to immediately remove the Libellous Site (as containing the Libellous Statements or anything else that could constitute a libel and / or a malicious falsehood in respect of our clients) : this is particularly urgent, as we gather that your site is about to be publicly launched to the world’s media by means of a press-release and, if this were to happen, the scope for damage to our clients’ reputations (and, equally, the scope for compensatory damages to our clients) would be very significantly increased. Should you fail to comply with our clients’ reasonable request (as contained herein) and, therefore, should you continue to publish the Libellous Statements on a joint and several basis, we would kindly ask you to provide us with the names and addresses of your lawyers in Holland, the United States, the United Kingdom, France and Germany, for the purposes of dealing with the appropriate legal actions that shall follow against the officers of your site personally.

We shall look forward to hearing from you as soon as possible.

Whilst writing, we would caution you against communicating any further correspondence or remarks to third parties that could, in any way, be construed as being libellous of PRINCE or that could otherwise constitute a malicious falsehood, injurious to our clients’ business interests. Similarly, we would remind you that this communication is the copyright of Web Sheriff and, as such, any publication and / or dissemination to third parties would be actionable. Furthermore, Web Sheriff cannot be held liable for the consequences of any such publication and / or dissemination in the event that the same originated from yourselves or parties connected to you.

Naturally and notwithstanding the foregoing, all accumulated, worldwide rights and remedies of our clients in this matter remain strictly reserved.

Yours sincerely,

WEB SHERIFF

This is too do with freedom of speech not intellectual property that rightfully belongs to prince

I don't think anyone is arguing against his legitimate and legal right to protect his own intellectual property

Its when it appears his representatives are making demands over material to which they have no rights that people are reacting

Also, neither prince nor the record company own the trademark to the use of the word "prince"

So any t shirts using that word in the UK would breach the intellectual property rights of the trademark holder Prince Sports, Inc.

They have had it registered for t shirts since 1983

A slight case of double standards methinks

Anxiety said:

That could very well be. Hopefully she has moved on.

m3taverse said:[quote]

phineas said:

Thanks for your response. It all seems a little unclear to me still. I seek further detail on these actions by Prince.
TBC

psychodelicide said:

i will never do the old songs again but still doing them

i will give my music directly 2 the fans ..yet i had 2 go 2 the record store 2 purchase 3121

L4OATheOriginal said:

Drives me crazy.

PurpleCharm said:

I feel Prince is personally attacking my rights to free speech and I don't like it. If you've got no problems with it then that's good for you but I don't appreciate it and I'm going to be vocal about it. Until he comes out of hiding and deals with this mess, that ain't changing!

Since Prince is not your Daddy, why are you all up in this thread, whining about what people are saying about him?
[Edited 11/8/07 9:30am]

I can imagine what it'd be like to have thousands of thoughts and pictures being made of someone constantly. Aren't there senses that haven't yet been defined by science which connect us and communication from others on some level other than sight and sound? Thoughts travel even when the word is unspoken. Maybe he's been bombarded for too long and needs some space and rest.

colorblu said:

it's too late for him to expect the rest of the world to provide him with his space and rest. he needs to create that safe zone for himself, and if he really wants it, i do believe he can find it. other celebrities have walked away from fame and retired/taken sabbaticals, and i think it's a matter of defining what HE can do to buffer himself from the footnote in pop culture that he has become. if he really wants to experience a life outside of the fishbowl, he can do it. once the rest of the world sees he means business, i am certain he can find surroundings where people will respect his desire to be "just plain ol' prince", and he can do the work of figuring out how to express himself in a way that makes him feel comfortable. none of us can define that for him, and he can't force us to re-define all the years of appreciation we've built up for his work up to this point. if he wants a rest from celebrity, he can have it. this just is not the way to go about it.

I"m laughing at the thought of Prince on Firefox with like 8 tabs open with a angry look on his face