rogifan said:

gandorb said:

rogifan said:

Genesia said:

Or don't sell out - which is the more likely scenario.

Press release says supply is limited so I'm guessing not that many 4-day passes were made available, otherwise why even mention that at all, especially at these prices?

It is a advertising gimmick to try to justify the high prices (e.g., you can be among the few elite if you buy these tickets but you better hurry to buy them soon before we run out).

Do you really believe at these prices there are people on the fence who bought because the press release said limited supply?

No I don't. I didn't suggest that it was an effective strategy. From the reaction here on the board, the entire marketing of this was a huge misfire.

MrNelson7 said:

rogifan said:

DevotedPuppy said:

Oh I don't know -- only hundreds of museums across the United States - for starters. They should have incorporated it as a 501(c)3 not-for-profit* instead of an LLC.

*Just because a museum is not-for-profit doesn't mean it can't make a profit. It means the profit is reinvested in the museum to support its programs instead of being paid to shareholders.

And what would they be doing differently? Do you know who the shareholders of this LLC are and what they're being paid right now? I don't. But I do know Graceland put up the initial funds needed to turn PP into a museum and run the place. I guess I don't understand why all the hate for Graceland as if it's evil or something.

They could do 1,000 things differently. I'm not going to get into it on this thread as it's off-topic and I don't want to give away all my ideas on a public forum.

The point is that Graceland is a for-profit - their goal is to make money for Graceland LLC. A not-for-profit makes money for the not-for-profit. Not to make other people rich. NFPs also don't have to pay taxes, contributions are tax deductible which incentivizes people to give the NFP money, etc. etc.

The Estate could have put up the funds to run the NFP - perhaps it could have been considered a chartible donation, deductible on the tax bill.

A museum, by definition preserves object of historical, scientific, artistic, or cultural interest and exhibits them for educational purposes. You're fooling yourself if you think Graceland cares one bit about Prince's cultural or artistic significance/output. They care about making money for themselves and the City of Chanhassen. Look at the websites of Motown Museum or the Stax Museum to see a few of main differences.

laurarichardson said:

DevotedPuppy said:

Oh I don't know -- only hundreds of museums across the United States - for starters. They should have incorporated it as a 501(c)3 not-for-profit* instead of an LLC.

*Just because a museum is not-for-profit doesn't mean it can't make a profit. It means the profit is reinvested in the museum to support its programs instead of being paid to shareholders.

-/I doubt Prince's plans for Paisley Park included plans for a non-profit enity particular if he wanted to continue his charity work.

1. You don't know any more than the rest of us as to what Prince's plans for Paisely Park were.

2. You clearly don't understand how not-for-profits work. NFPs can continue giving money to charities. Many foundations are not-for-profits that give money to other charities.

3. Please show me where Graceland is continuing Prince's charity work...so far I've only seen them fleecing fans to line their own pockets and that of the Estate.

DevotedPuppy said:

rogifan said:

DevotedPuppy said:

They could do 1,000 things differently. I'm not going to get into it on this thread as it's off-topic and I don't want to give away all my ideas on a public forum.

The point is that Graceland is a for-profit - their goal is to make money for Graceland LLC. A not-for-profit makes money for the not-for-profit. Not to make other people rich. NFPs also don't have to pay taxes, contributions are tax deductible which incentivizes people to give the NFP money, etc. etc.

The Estate could have put up the funds to run the NFP - perhaps it could have been considered a chartible donation, deductible on the tax bill.

A museum, by definition preserves object of historical, scientific, artistic, or cultural interest and exhibits them for educational purposes. You're fooling yourself if you think Graceland cares one bit about Prince's cultural or artistic significance/output. They care about making money for themselves and the City of Chanhassen. Look at the websites of Motown Museum or the Stax Museum to see a few of main differences.

Ok now you're changing the subject to for profit vs non-profit. I don't see anything that PP management is doing or has done that is specifically to take advantage of people. Perhaps the person people should be upset with then is the one no longer here. The one who didn't have a will and apparently didn't leave instructions to turn PP into a non-profit. Was Prince in on the scheme to enrich the city of Chanhassen?

No I'm not changing the subject. My very first post was about how it should have been incorporated as a 501(c). Museums - reputable museums - are always 501(c)3. (e.g. not-for-profits). LLCs are not not-for-profits.

Please see XxAxX's response to your question about who else has experience for further elucidation on why Graceland is/was not a good choice.

Prince wasn't in on a scheme to enrich the City of Chanhassen, but it was the Mayor who went to Graceland to make the deal with them. You can't tell me he didn't think about how much money it would bring to Chanhassen. The Mayor, the Estate and Bremmer could have all researched the tax benefits of incorporating PP as a 501(c)3 but my guess is that none of them really know anything about running a museum so they chose what seemed to be the easy way to make money instead of thinking about how to sustain Paisley Park Museum long term. Museums are businesses, yes; but at their core, they are different from for-profit corporations.

Gah, now I remember why I stopped posting on this website and especially in P:M&M. It's impossible to have a rational conversation because people read what they want, not what's actually written.

This sort of thing makes me glad that I saw the best Prince concert of my life, just two years ago in London at the Empire, and the ticket cost........ £10 (at the current exchange rate that's $12 USD).

I've already seen The Time, a couple different lineups of the NPG, Liv, Shelby and 3EG.

So all that separates this extra cost compared to the regular trip to Paisley is.......... The Revolution. And some panel discussions.

I guess if I lived in Minnesota I'd consider it. And if this event wasn't happening I'd probably even consider going to PP on April 21st or around that time.

I saw Prince something like 6 or 7 times in London in 2007, and the combined price of seeing him all those times, was less than the entry fee for this.

rogifan said:

Yeah I don't know what his agenda is. There's also this PRiNCeFAMCLUB twitter account that he's promoted in the past. No one seems to know who's behind it or what it's all about. But that twitter account tweeted some cryptic shade about this PP announcement. I don't like it. If Londell or whomever has issues wit the Estate and/or PP management then take it up with the appropriate people in private. Don't give us this cryptic shit on Twitter.

Indeed. Londell is working for the Bremer Trust, who hired him (and Koppelman) to help them manage Prince's affairs until the inheritance is settled. Obviously, BT is involved in organizing this Cele, given that they are the ones currently running the estate. So why would someone working for BT be publicly criticizing the Cele? Looks odd to me.

OTOH, it seemed like Londell got heavily involved in organizing the tribute concert, and we saw how that became a bit of a cluster. So maybe he was kept out of arranging this event?

FWIW - Mark Brown responded to the note I sent him which I posted on this thread (page 2), and which I've included below. Apparently, The Revolution didn't expect the ticket prices to be so high either, and Mark says it's "shocking".

Mark Brown said:

Ya, I was very shocked at the ticket prices. I don't understand it at all. We have nothing to do with it. We were asked to come play 2 shows and we felt it is only appropriate to honor Prince but these prices are a shock!

JudasLChrist said:

I sent a message to Mark Brown:

Hey Mark,

I'm writing to you to express my disappointment regarding the ticket prices for the upcoming Paisley Park Celebration. I realize that The Revolution probably had nothing to do with it. I also definitely understand that artists should get paid, but these ticket prices are above and beyond what Prince himself charged for previous celebration. It's beyond what festivals charge for VIP tickets to see 100 bands over the course of days. Also, this event is being held on the anniversary of his death. Consequently, the high ticket money aspect has a particular vulgarity to it. I feel like it's exploitive of Prince, and exploitive of the fans. A day of mourning and celebration should not be a giant cash-in.

I don't hold it against you and the band for playing this show. I imagine you are locked into a contract or something now that tickets have gone on sale. I just wanted to say something about it. Prince's first death anniversary gathering should not be encumbered by these kind of greed issues. I do hope you guys have the the opportunity play more shows than just this.

I really love The Revolution. I feel like I have connected with each one of you personally. I'm a performer myself, and I've realized recently that that is the magic of music, where individuals can connect in intimate ways to thousands of people. It truly is a magic trick. When Prince died, I felt like somebody I had actually known had died. I did have some very minor run ins with Prince, but I didn't know him. I felt like I knew him completely, though. I felt very weird about this until I came to that realization: that's what art does.

You guys are the keeper of this legacy. A legacy built not just from Prince's labor, but your own. I know that you want to take the best care of it. I have confidence you understand what it means. I hope in the future you are able to keep yourselves at a distance from the money grubbing of the Prince family lawyers, (or whatever is going on). It pretty much is my life dream to see the Revolution play. I was 13 when you broke up. If I had the money to goto this, I most likely would go, even though I feel funny about the issues surrounding it. I hope there are other opportunities to celebrate his and your legacy in the future.

With love, JudasLChrist

FWIW - Mark Brown responded to the note I sent him which I posted on this thread (page 2), and which I've included below. Apparently, The Revolution didn't expect the ticket prices to be so high either, and Mark says it's "shocking".

Mark Brown said:

Ya, I was very shocked at the ticket prices. I don't understand it at all. We have nothing to do with it. We were asked to come play 2 shows and we felt it is only appropriate to honor Prince but these prices are a shock!

JudasLChrist said:

I sent a message to Mark Brown:

Hey Mark,

I'm writing to you to express my disappointment regarding the ticket prices for the upcoming Paisley Park Celebration. I realize that The Revolution probably had nothing to do with it. I also definitely understand that artists should get paid, but these ticket prices are above and beyond what Prince himself charged for previous celebration. It's beyond what festivals charge for VIP tickets to see 100 bands over the course of days. Also, this event is being held on the anniversary of his death. Consequently, the high ticket money aspect has a particular vulgarity to it. I feel like it's exploitive of Prince, and exploitive of the fans. A day of mourning and celebration should not be a giant cash-in.

I don't hold it against you and the band for playing this show. I imagine you are locked into a contract or something now that tickets have gone on sale. I just wanted to say something about it. Prince's first death anniversary gathering should not be encumbered by these kind of greed issues. I do hope you guys have the the opportunity play more shows than just this.

I really love The Revolution. I feel like I have connected with each one of you personally. I'm a performer myself, and I've realized recently that that is the magic of music, where individuals can connect in intimate ways to thousands of people. It truly is a magic trick. When Prince died, I felt like somebody I had actually known had died. I did have some very minor run ins with Prince, but I didn't know him. I felt like I knew him completely, though. I felt very weird about this until I came to that realization: that's what art does.

You guys are the keeper of this legacy. A legacy built not just from Prince's labor, but your own. I know that you want to take the best care of it. I have confidence you understand what it means. I hope in the future you are able to keep yourselves at a distance from the money grubbing of the Prince family lawyers, (or whatever is going on). It pretty much is my life dream to see the Revolution play. I was 13 when you broke up. If I had the money to goto this, I most likely would go, even though I feel funny about the issues surrounding it. I hope there are other opportunities to celebrate his and your legacy in the future.

With love, JudasLChrist

.

[Edited 12/4/16 17:21pm]

Why isn't it free? bs

In other news, the new Purple Rain will have another cd of all vault material.

It's always been expensive to be a hard-core Prince fan. That is what this event is geared towards. The quantities are limited and costs have to amoritized over the small number that will be sold.

I've spent literally thousands of dollars on Prince bootlegs over the years of which he received no benefit, other than keeping me loyal, despite that fact that his work was being exploited by others not connected to him whatsoever. At least in this case the profit will be going to those he wanted it to go to.

Listen, Prince was a smart guy, not a victim, when it comes to how his estate was set up and would be adminstered after his passing. He could have had this go anyway that he wanted. The path that this is taking is a direct result of the choices he made (directly or indirectly). IMO, that should be respected and supported.

The date on the other hand I think is a poor choice. Not one that I believe most hard-core Prince fans would have selected. June 7th is in the middle of the week and I know they want to keep the city happy by doing things on the weekends when the traffic impact will be less. However, I think something could have been worked out to keep past traditions alive and well.

It would appear that they are not getting much input from his traditional fan base. Pehaps this too will change over time.

In the end, I think each should vote with your dollars and that will impact the future.

Flame away!

People are always going to find reason to complain about something, ALWAYS. If you don't want to spend the money to go, then just stay your happy behind at home. It's that simple. Why all the nagging?

missfee said:

People are always going to find reason to complain about something, ALWAYS. If you don't want to spend the money to go, then just stay your happy behind at home. It's that simple. Why all the nagging?

It feels like old times?

missfee said:

People are always going to find reason to complain about something, ALWAYS. If you don't want to spend the money to go, then just stay your happy behind at home. It's that simple. Why all the nagging?

.

True. However most of us want to go and don't have that kind of income. I think the prices are a legit complaint. This sounds like a cash grab for a select few only. If Prince was alive and well it'd be a different story. So I'll keep my behind at home but I won't be happy. Sorry

$500.00? I aint' got that kinda money!

.

Well, this is certainly interesting -- I can see the route they are going to take with PP in the future, with having these fancy concerts/events at a premium cost! Who the heck can afford that, other than rich people who have extra $$$ to throw around, and the Hollywood celebs?

.

I dunno, but I just don't feel that this is something Prince would ever do!! He used to hold events and charge a reasonable fee so everyone would be able to afford it!!

.

And, having this on the anniversary of his death is just weird, imo.

.

[Edited 11/29/16 11:36am]

[Edited 11/29/16 11:37am]

The price is steep especially with traveling but I would still shoot for the GA tix. Four days worth of events, it is not totally crazy. It's just a lot of investment in time and money. It sounds intriguing!

CandaceS said:

JudasLChrist said:

WOW!!! $1000 for VIP, I recall being at the very 1st Celebration in 2000 and i prob spent for my flight, hotel, week long fun, etc.

Also there is no real difference for the $1000...if anyone has been at PP you know the artirst walk around all the time and you can meet, get autogrpah if you, just not any pictures. So what is the bonus.....the parking???? Once again it all seesm WAAAAYYYYYY to fast and someone trying to make money.

Respect the FANS, Respect the man, I coudl see if a portion of money was given to suitable chairites, etc. but with the recent potential sales of his unreleased music to various record labels, they should be able to those taxes!!!!

RIP - still mourning

DevotedPuppy said:

FWIW - Mark Brown responded to the note I sent him which I posted on this thread (page 2), and which I've included below. Apparently, The Revolution didn't expect the ticket prices to be so high either, and Mark says it's "shocking".

Mark Brown said:

If you cost out the four days for the GA package it works out to $125 per day. If they had a day pass for $125 that offered 5 hours of activities people probably wouldn't be as upset. I'm hoping they offer individual day packages soon. One thing to mention re: Graceland (which others have brought up), during Elvis Presley week I believe they offer some free events. And I don't think any of their events are as expensive as this celebration. Perhaps if PP as a museum is successful and they turn this into a yearly event prices for it will come down. I'm trying to give the Estate/PP management the benefit of the doubt that they're not intentionally trying to screw over fans. It's early days and we don't know what the financial situation is with the Estate.

Nope, don't believe for one minute anyone is trying to screw the fans over, but I definitely believe that people are completely clueless as to the operating expenses for PP. Brownmark is going along with the flow of complaints: not our choice, I'm shocked too, so on and so forth. It's not on the performers and shouldn't be put on them, they've agreed to perform but they aren't calling all the shots. But again, if people have no idea of the operating costs...and I mean ALL of the costs, including borrowed money to have even started the PP museum et al, then it seems outrageous. People should be looking into that though and educating themselves rather than endless complaining about cost. I'm willing to bet that the cost is justified. Just the fact that PP will close if fans don't support it should be enough incentive for people to investigate further.

[Edited 11/29/16 12:21pm]

DevotedPuppy said:

laurarichardson said:

DevotedPuppy said: -/I doubt Prince's plans for Paisley Park included plans for a non-profit enity particular if he wanted to continue his charity work.

1. You don't know any more than the rest of us as to what Prince's plans for Paisely Park were.

2. You clearly don't understand how not-for-profits work. NFPs can continue giving money to charities. Many foundations are not-for-profits that give money to other charities.

3. Please show me where Graceland is continuing Prince's charity work...so far I've only seen them fleecing fans to line their own pockets and that of the Estate.

1) I did not say I knew anymore then anyone else. We do know from reports that he made plans to turn Paisley Park into a museum. We know he sent plans out to people. Perhaps this event was in those plans. Prince did not do free concerts and while he appears to have donated money from some of those shows to charities how would have been able to donate any money to anything if he did free shows?

2) I understand how non-profits work I work for one (LOL). What you do not get is Paisley Park in not a non-profit and I do not think it was ever planned to be one.

3) I never said anything about Graceland donating to charities WTF is that coming from? My comment concerns this idea that Paisley was ever going to be a non-profit in the first place.

How would Prince have been able to donate the money he did if he never brought in any revenue? Yes, non-profits can pour their earnings back into the entity but I don’t see Graceland doing that and getting back their investment anytime soon. Hold on to your wig and wait and see what happens once they start to make back their money and maybe when the family steps in. Granceland or the family could set up a foundation once the estate is settled. You do realize that estate is not settled.

CandaceS said:

rogifan said:

Yeah I don't know what his agenda is. There's also this PRiNCeFAMCLUB twitter account that he's promoted in the past. No one seems to know who's behind it or what it's all about. But that twitter account tweeted some cryptic shade about this PP announcement. I don't like it. If Londell or whomever has issues wit the Estate and/or PP management then take it up with the appropriate people in private. Don't give us this cryptic shit on Twitter.

Indeed. Londell is working for the Bremer Trust, who hired him (and Koppelman) to help them manage Prince's affairs until the inheritance is settled. Obviously, BT is involved in organizing this Cele, given that they are the ones currently running the estate. So why would someone working for BT be publicly criticizing the Cele? Looks odd to me.

OTOH, it seemed like Londell got heavily involved in organizing the tribute concert, and we saw how that became a bit of a cluster. So maybe he was kept out of arranging this event?

I think there's a bit of misunderstanding here.

Bremer hired Graceland Holdings to operate Paisley.

Bremer hired Londell and Charles to operate the recorded music business deals.

Events at Paisley aren't going through Londell. He can report back to Bremer if fans are expressing grievances.

Militant said:

I think there's a bit of misunderstanding here.

Bremer hired Graceland Holdings to operate Paisley.

Bremer hired Londell and Charles to operate the recorded music business deals.

Events at Paisley aren't going through Londell. He can report back to Bremer if fans are expressing grievances.

THANK YOU for putting that out! Fans seem to forget that the music and the museum are different entities and are run by different parties, albeit in a symbiotic nature.

djThunderfunk said:

I never spent that much to see Prince, won't be spending it to see associated artists and tour the park.

You mean you don't want to see Hanna Welton perform new songs from her new album "Women's Intuition"? lol.....Paisley Park has become a huge joke

ps: although i stand by my comments made in my prior post, i am really very grateful that somebody stepped up to manage the Park.

i believe/hope that with time the kinks will be worked out and the project will fine tune itself as time goes by.

better late than never; here is my very belated thank you to EPE/Graceland for trying hard to save Paisley Park!

[Edited 11/29/16 15:10pm]