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Printable Control freak meets incompetence under the extraordinary glare of a wordless contract.
If you're not a musician and you work for Prince for more than a couple of weeks, you're either a saint or your credibility is immediately indicted on several counts of grand larceny. 
I can't wait for 2.0! | |
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PurpleLove7 said: agathos said: whats the problem with lotusflow3r?
I subscribed, got 3 wonderful albums, 1 t-shirt, a lot of other material, old videos, some live shots, etc. It was a cool experience. If Prince does such a site with same amount of stuff again: I will subscribe... I really don't understand all the bashing... the second charge cant be the problem... some technician made a mistake, so what? The site was cool for me to but the problem some people had with the site is a lot of the material that was there we already had or seen. That's the problem being hardcore fam/fans, like some of us are. We do not see anything new. Some of it was re-hashed as some would put it. ... mind you I'm not complaining but that's what I noticed members of p.org were saying. This is a big issue on here. Everyone is calling for the vault to be opened and made available. We all have heard a good amount of what's in there already and don't really need to hear it again. Especially since when Prince did release vault material on Crystal Ball the fans didn't like the particular track he chose to release. Now this Box of Chocolates boot is getting raves from everyone for relasing a bunch of tracks that have been circulating for over 20 years with better sound quality (but nothing new other than that). You can't please anyone any of the time on here, it seems. This article is okay in that it's not an attack. He stated his side and that's cool. The site was cool and it served it's purpose in my opinion. It's kind of distatseful to speak upon the matter now after you got paid and it looks bad to future employers who may use you. [Edited 4/2/10 19:26pm] When  go 2 a Prince concert or related event it's all  up in the house but when log onto this site and the miasma of bitchiness is completely overwhelming! | |
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Todd Rundgren was doing this stuff first and he made sure customers receive their content.
Prince running around singing "Interactive" back in the day was a a rip-off from Todd. (One of many.) "The first time I saw the cover of Dirty Mind in the early 80s I thought, 'Is this some drag queen ripping on Freddie Prinze?'" - Some guy on The Gear Page | |
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HonestMan13 said: This is a big issue on here. Everyone is calling for the vault to be opened and made available. We all have heard a good amount of what's in there already and don't really need to hear it again. Especially since when Prince did release vault material on Crystal Ball the fans didn't like the particular track he chose to release. Now this Box of Chocolates boot is getting raves from everyone for relasing a bunch of tracks that have been circulating for over 20 years with better sound quality (but nothing new other than that). You can't please anyone any of the time on here, it seems. This article is okay in that it's not an attack. He stated his side and that's cool. The site was cool and it served it's purpose in my opinion. It's kind of distatseful to speak upon the matter now after you got paid and it looks bad to future employers who may use you. The first thing is: Crystal Ball has wet dreams of Box Of Chocolates. As sad as it is in a certain respect, fans obviously put more efforts into Prince releases than himself does at times. Plus bootleg labels and especially the free ones DELIVER the stuff fans have every reason to rave about. Previously uncirculated live shows, 80s aftershows in amazing quality, crispy clear outtake sets everybody dreamed of a few years ago, you name it. Prince doesn't. He ignores his fans' wishes, doesn't release concerts neither on CD nor DVD, and now he bends his most loyal hardcore fans over with false promises. That's why he deserves to get bootlegged the shit out of him. The second thing is: The site was neither "cool" nor did it "serve it's purpose", except with "purpose" you mean promoting the last album. But then, Prince is a LIAR. He told different things to his fans, and NOBODY, i say NOBODY would have signed in just to get the latest album for $77. You agree, don't you? The third and last thing is: It's not distasteful to speak up when you're starting to get hated for other people's mistakes. I would totally understand if it was an attack actually, because people started to blame the web guy for Prince's way of "treating" his fans. Many folks here started to blame the messenger. That's what he is, the poor guy who had (and hopefully not has anymore) to take the rap for Prince being a total dickhead. I so hope that people wake up now after we know "how" and "when" that dickhead lost interest in our $77 - the very moment he got them. Screw ya, Mr. Prince! | |
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xlr8r said: Plus Bart was raggin on him being a Hollywood wannabe last year and now that he is poo-poo-ing Prince, he is all of a sudden such a great legitimate designer etc. to the haters on the innernet. I see you John
 It's amazing how you lot keep making shit up. Show me where I said that he's "such a great legitimate designer". This article proves he's a hack (and so is Malzone). Clay gets a couple of points for coming clean, but he loses those for waiting eleven months. And he continues lying about the CC "mix-up". © Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights. It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for your use. All rights reserved. | |
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PurpleLove7 said: Efan said: I found this part in particular very infuriating. It shows exactly how little Prince regards his fans. ... like it happened "exactly" how he said it, yeah right.  I was thinking the same. This is Clay trying to save face. If it happened just like he said ..... then how does that explain his teams oversight on the billing error? for not checking up on that? cuz the team leaders letter, stated that they did NOT sign up for or know about the re-occurring automatic billing. In this article he indicates they did know about it. I don't want to disrespect Clay for his tech. work on the site but the management issue of it ... the lack of response and the spotty response to email directed to the support team ... was extremely poorly handled. From a management point of view it would have been Clay Not Prince respsonible for that. That was the teams job. Prince makes music. The team makes (inpart) responses to email to the ... you guessed it... the Support team at LotusFlow3r.com. They blew it. Maybe Clay was unclear about what Prince wanted or expected. But also, if someone's boss ... isn't looking, is off doing something else like...Oh I don't know... making more music for instance? Then the crew might have a tendancy to get lax. Sorry Clay but ... it's true. Whether Prince answered your emails or not .. Clay and crew should have answered ALL of the emails to the support team. bottom line. this is the time of the first fast. | |
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yeah the site didn't go as expected but all of this screw P talk won't get you written up in morning papers... because some did get quoted fine, be that as it may... why continue a year later to be radical when what's done is done.  |
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Lotus2unfld said: Whether Prince answered your emails or not .. Clay and crew should have answered ALL of the emails to the support team.
bottom line. I said the same, some time ago. I was really angry about that. But don't we know more now? I mean, what should they've written? Like "Sorry there will be no new content, Prince lost interest in the site"? We all know - contract or not - you can't do that, and at that point i indeed do understand we weren't informed about what was going on... Right, they could've send more mails saying "sorry for all inconveniences" and stuff, but with regard to the things going on in the background, i actually doubt it would've saved a lot. For me, this is all about an artists who didn't deliver. Web guy could've done better, yeah, but in the end it's not his fault the site was a desaster. It wasn't his decision that music and videos couldn't be downloaded. It wasn't his decision there was zero new content for most of the time. If the site would have been running slow, with some casual bugs, no t-shirts, and a bad customer service not replying to my mails, BUT with awesome new content every month, everything would've been fine in my world... | |
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Thank you for posting this Bart. 
The one thing that has struck me about the whole lotusflw3r experience is that function trumps form every time. I believe that people would have been happier downloading an anonymous looking .tor file that lead you to music that you could listen to at your leisure than a stuttery stream in a fine looking yet semi functional "galaxy." ....and to Clay Addison , to these eyes you will always be Sam Jennings.XP the version that looks better in the demo but is really just a lot slower and less functional. | |
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I got a refund two days after I was charged without really having to do a thing, so how upset can I be? I just wish the NPGMC would come back. I loved the presales, the after shows, the sound checks. That was a magical time, despite what the cry babies say. It is not good business to bash your employer or business associates in the major media, especially if you got your money. The web site sucked, and was tedious in its design. That Clay dude needs to own that. "It's hard 4 me 2 say what's right when all I want to do is wrong..." | |
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Bart, great article.
Would it help draw P's attention? Or at least warn people against working with him? About the fake people, where are the people that actually did the work? How were they involved? Indirectly? That would be interetsing... Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry. | |
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swanny said: Now either they did deliver what PRINCE WANTED, or they didn't so why did Prince retain them for a year?
Prince was disappointed Or Prince lost interest Wanted to do something else Etc Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry. | |
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Efan said: Militant said: Prince, give me a call. I'll make your new site and it will be WAY better than any site you've had before.
Be careful what you wish for. That's would be an express train from Fanville to Hater Town for sure. 
Also, if anyone's interested, you can read Scott Addison Clay's professional bio here. If you think Prince just hired some hack who didn't know the first thing about building a website, think again. Yes...this media group is on point!!!! They have a track record that is undeniable...Prince however does not....I understand why they decided to get with one of the most amazing pop artists in the biz...BUT...they as a company should have done their homework!!! PRINCE....I love your music....but...as a business entity....you SUCK!!! I am a business major and have dealt with many flackey artists....and you are one of them...But Cimarron Group should have done their homework...if MADONNA had asked,she has a reputation of follow-through....fast, and easy return...but she at least follows through! She will not stay with you long, but if she works with you...she at least will honor her (short) contract and will not renege....(she gets sued way less that Prince). Cimarron Group can only blame themselves. I did not sign up to Princes new website because of the way he shutdown the NPG site. I signed up 6 months before it shut down with no real explanation! Again...I am a Prince fan...but not a Prince business fan...I do not think that Prince is doing it on purpose...he just is NOT a business person...and...has never been on (OUR) side of the fence...he has had money longer than he has not! He does not understand the Middle-class fan (which at least 60% of us are)and thinks that his whims (which cost us money) are something we should just live with! I am not gonna try to figure him out, or tell him how to be...but..I am telling his FAMS...to understand that he is NOT like us..and therefore is OBLIVIOUS to our wants and needs....DON'T BE MAD....Be responsible for your own income and do not try to lay blame on YOUR bad decisions.... [Edited 4/3/10 0:05am] 'Love will be your Soldier' - Nikka Costa
http://ddirtyshow.podomatic.com/ hiphopwithaqueerview if you in the ATL memorial day weekend and you are a Alt-Queer...cum here: www.mondohomo.com | |
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I've read every post in this thread and I think the Fam reactions have fucked with my serotonin receptors. Now please excuse me as I'm off to carve a  in my forehead.If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot. | |
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muleFunk said: Mars23 said: Never said he was, but it sounds like you wish to place all the blame squarely on his doorstep and that view is incredibly naive. Expert or not, the site did not deliver content. That's on the artist, not the designer. The site continued to charge people because it was a bust and abandoned by the artist. NOBODY was paying attention to it and we saw the results. A thriving, vibrant community would never have had that happen. Again, everyone involved shares some blame. Mars I have to admit that I agree with you. The site never lived up to the promises made by BOTH designer and artist. However now thinking about it some of the stuff we are seeing ... Box O Chocolates and the stuff farmed out to websites maybe.....? I like where you're going with this. If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot. | |
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Oh, and I call dibs on the alter org account "Me2.0". If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot. | |
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BartVanHemelen said: http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/04/02/my-year-with-prince/
These and other scenes that resemble a Dave Chappelle sketch come to life, including 2 a.m. pancakes and deafening listening sessions in a room lined with thick white fur (“It was like polar bears had laid down for him”), were all part of a run-up to the launch of Prince’s latest, greatest Web portal. .” [EDIT - added the article text - Mars23][/quote] Polar Bear? Clay don't be a Jackass!. You oughta know better than that. Prince is the White Fox. Not Polar Bear you bone-head! I can't think of the name of it off the top of my head but an Indian Medicine man once told me that my spirit animal was the Hummingbird. Therefore, obviously, Prince is the White Fox. Don't mock that. This is all very unprofessional of Clay and will NOT make Clay and his team look good before any other professional company looking at hiring someone for future projects. Clay don't diss Prince for giving you too much freedom. Cuz i suspect that's what actually happened. He gave you freedom to do your J.O.B. .. instead of breathing down the back of your neck .. you got lazy and lax and you blew it. You dropped the ball. His fans where and had been getting mad at him ... cuz fans don't know whose on the other end of the computer. They're thinking Prince is sitting at the computer all day long over there at Lotusflow3r.com support. And your on the org. You saw the fans getting mad. It was your job to check the Prince fan sites and LOOK for potential problems ... in customer care .... and put those fires out before the flames fanned. You blew it! Instead of dissing Prince, buck up .. be a professional ... and learn from YOUR mistakes and shortcomings Figure out what YOU need to do to not repeat those mistakes again in the future on future projects for other companies. That's what professionals do. Peace! this is the time of the first fast. | |
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isn`t Prince still vegan? White faux seems a more likely choice for the fur described by Mr Addison Clay IMHO [Edited 4/3/10 0:52am] | |
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What a prick our dear Prince is.... | |
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Lotus2unfld said: I can't think of the name of it off the top of my head but an Indian Medicine man once told me that my spirit animal was the Hummingbird.
Therefore, obviously, Prince is the White Fox. Don't mock that. Peace! It's this kind of stuff that goes straight into my Dream Journal. If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot. | |
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squirrelgrease said: Oh, and I call dibs on the alter org account "Me2.0".
LOL! 'Love will be your Soldier' - Nikka Costa
http://ddirtyshow.podomatic.com/ hiphopwithaqueerview if you in the ATL memorial day weekend and you are a Alt-Queer...cum here: www.mondohomo.com | |
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Lotus2unfld said: BartVanHemelen said: http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/04/02/my-year-with-prince/
These and other scenes that resemble a Dave Chappelle sketch come to life, including 2 a.m. pancakes and deafening listening sessions in a room lined with thick white fur (“It was like polar bears had laid down for him”), were all part of a run-up to the launch of Prince’s latest, greatest Web portal. .” [EDIT - added the article text - Mars23] Polar Bear? Clay don't be a Jackass!. You oughta know better than that. Prince is the White Fox. Not Polar Bear you bone-head! I can't think of the name of it off the top of my head but an Indian Medicine man once told me that my spirit animal was the Hummingbird. Therefore, obviously, Prince is the White Fox. Don't mock that. This is all very unprofessional of Clay and will NOT make Clay and his team look good before any other professional company looking at hiring someone for future projects. Clay don't diss Prince for giving you too much freedom. Cuz i suspect that's what actually happened. He gave you freedom to do your J.O.B. .. instead of breathing down the back of your neck .. you got lazy and lax and you blew it. You dropped the ball. His fans where and had been getting mad at him ... cuz fans don't know whose on the other end of the computer. They're thinking Prince is sitting at the computer all day long over there at Lotusflow3r.com support. And your on the org. You saw the fans getting mad. It was your job to check the Prince fan sites and LOOK for potential problems ... in customer care .... and put those fires out before the flames fanned. You blew it! Instead of dissing Prince, buck up .. be a professional ... and learn from YOUR mistakes and shortcomings Figure out what YOU need to do to not repeat those mistakes again in the future on future projects for other companies. That's what professionals do. Peace![/quote] I do not agree with your assessment. Let's assume Clay is a super-talented Web Designer...which his website suggests....then, if one of the most famous and talented music icons in the U.S. asked HIM to help develop his website... he should assume that Prince "the guy who was in the forefront independent music distribution online" had a plan and will give him the parameters of exactly what he wanted to deliver on his new website?? Why would Clay...who has experience with web based yet NOT music based distribution, not wait for Prince's go ahead with what PRINCE wanted? Think about it...Should this guy who has no music experience tell another guy with over 20 years experience how to set up his website? No, he will wait for Prince's ideas and then implement them in the best way technologically he knew how....Clay is the tech guy...not the music distribution guy.... [Edited 4/3/10 1:14am] [Edited 4/3/10 1:15am] [Edited 4/3/10 1:16am] [Edited 4/3/10 1:17am] 'Love will be your Soldier' - Nikka Costa
http://ddirtyshow.podomatic.com/ hiphopwithaqueerview if you in the ATL memorial day weekend and you are a Alt-Queer...cum here: www.mondohomo.com | |
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It's NEVER Prince's fault...NEVER
 | |
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LondonStyle said: rwn said: Exactly. Money is the only reason why you wouldn´t trash your employer in public That and the fact he did not know what the hell he was doing ...err what's his track record with producing websites like lotusflow3r for international pop stars.... That's the first thing i would mention in an interview to the WSJ ....
The guys a blagger ....hence the billing problem ...school boy stuff ...   this is the time of the first fast. | |
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polkadotbliss said: Scott could have set up away better customer service-no matter how little content he was getting from Prince-who ultimately has to take the blame cuz its all his ride-he's steering-if he decides to drive straight into a ditch-its not like ANYBODY is gonna say dont or you can't do that
whatever.....his next projects gonna be massive in the torrent world Amen to that. I couldn't agree more. I had said about the same thing before I come across this post. well said. this is the time of the first fast. | |
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MacDaddy said: It's NEVER Prince's fault...NEVER
That's funny cause whenever things don't go my way....I THINK THE EXACTLY SAME THING!!! HA!! 'Love will be your Soldier' - Nikka Costa
http://ddirtyshow.podomatic.com/ hiphopwithaqueerview if you in the ATL memorial day weekend and you are a Alt-Queer...cum here: www.mondohomo.com | |
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HiRizeBear said: NeoGeo24bit said: The website stunk... Prince's vault material stunk... the price to sign up stunk... everything about the website venture was ridiculous. Prince has no clue what makes a great website and he hires people who aren't skilled at making sites. One thing is for certain -- never take the job as "Prince's Online Presence Manager." You'll be fired in no time.
He hired people that know PLENTY about 'making sites': http://www.cimarrongroup.com/ other clients only include CBS, FOX, NBC, DISNEY, DREAMWORKS, MIRAMAX, ESPN, COCA-COLA, NEW LINE CINEMA, FX, HBO, MGM, PARAMOUNT, SONY, UNIVERSAL, etc, etc, etc.. Those sites are pretty much terrible -- 90% of those clients are movie studios. Those "movie" sites they make before a movie is released are some of the worst web sites out there (IMHO). They feature lame java games, and have URLs such as "hit-man-movie.com". Sure, they're "big name" fancy looking sites, but ventures like that don't survive long in the web 2.0 world. The thrill and usability last about the film's box office run... a couple of weeks. | |
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Here's some free business advice for Prince.
Open an official Twitter account so you can update fans on new music releases, concerts, or whatever is on your mind. Ask prince.org to post the link for Prince's official Twitter account on the main page. In three months Prince will have 200,000+ followers. Tell those followers when a new album is being released. The album will go top 5, probably number one. Everyone is happy. | |
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NeoGeo24bit said: Here's some free business advice for Prince.
Open an official Twitter account so you can update fans on new music releases, concerts, or whatever is on your mind. Ask prince.org to post the link for Prince's official Twitter account on the main page. In three months Prince will have 200,000+ followers. Tell those followers when a new album is being released. The album will go top 5, probably number one. Everyone is happy. I like it! 'Love will be your Soldier' - Nikka Costa
http://ddirtyshow.podomatic.com/ hiphopwithaqueerview if you in the ATL memorial day weekend and you are a Alt-Queer...cum here: www.mondohomo.com | |
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NeoGeo24bit said: Here's some free business advice for Prince.
Open an official Twitter account so you can update fans on new music releases, concerts, or whatever is on your mind. Ask prince.org to post the link for Prince's official Twitter account on the main page. In three months Prince will have 200,000+ followers. Tell those followers when a new album is being released. The album will go top 5, probably number one. Everyone is happy. That's a nice idea, but it will not appeal to Prince, I think. Twitter is mainly used by celebs as a way to get 'closer to fans'. That's probably the last thing he wants. | |
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