9. I don't think most people are too angry because it can only be an "onward and upward" type of situation from here. It would be really hard for the situation to be any worse than what we just experienced. Personally, I have doubts that he'll come back to teh internets. He's been at it for a long time, after all. But if he does I definitely expect better than the Lotusflow3r site.

Ah man. I made the page flip on my own post. Bullocks!

Tremolina said:

The whole point is that the process of getting the music out there to 100,000 people who would buy the music is to expensive for everyone to bother with.

The best way is a for pay site but as with NPGMC and Lotus someone will buy and then bootleg the material.

This is a bidness and you aint to far gone to recognize that.

muleFunk said:

Oh give it a rest! Prince's music has been bootlegged since he started recording it and yet he has always somehow managed to survive. How did he ever do that?

Oh yeah, I remember, he would at least pretend that he appreciated his fans and in turn when the record companies were whining about first...cassettes, then CD's and then file-sharing, taking out of their profit margins, Prince was STILL getting PAID from his bootleg getting, cassette dubbing, CD ripping, file-sharing FANS and he has never suffered financially because of THAT!

He survived because 80% of his music was released before file sharing.

You miss my point.

I am not talking about the dubbing of a CD and sharing it with another person because money has been made.I am talking about a record company doing a P&D deal on Dream Factory or Crystal Ball. They will not do it because they (the record company) will not make money off of 100,000 copies being sold.

This has nothing to do with the personal feelings of Prince,fans,fams,haters. This has to do with how many units they can sell. Personally speaking I don't think Prince could release Dream Factory 23 years later and make money off the deal.

muleFunk said:

No, I understood your point but here's the part that you seem to be missing. When done with a little effort on his part. Prince could sell water to a fish!

"Musicology" proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt. He did what he does...when he feels like bothering to do it...best!

He got out his new music. He promoted it. He made his fans old and new...happy by touring and "giving" us something tangible WHILE thumbing his nose at the record industry because there wasn't a damn thing they could do about his clever little stunt until after he'd done it.

Since he'd bundled the price of the CD's into the price of his concert tickets, they had to count all the CD's that he "gave away" as sales. I loved and applauded that shit! So much so, I took myself and my husband to see him twice that year.

With the technology that is available today. Prince doesn't have to sell 100,000 copies of Dream Factory...he literally could just give it away!

It wasn't in my family's budget to go to Europe and see any of the 21 Nights In London but I would and could have happily dropped down $77.00 in a heart beat, to have seen just ONE of those shows, streamed LIVE...PROPERLY...from his website and a free Lossless quality download of Dream Factory...could have just been that topping from a multi-layered cake, that I carefully pull out the freezer to annoy my relatives with, along with the story, they've heard a zillion times, when they come over for special occasions.

I've been embracing, learning and growing with the internet since 1993. I've been embracing, learning and growing with Prince since 1978. I KNOW what they are both capable of individually.

Hell, if a little known Black Man with an African...Muslim sounding name...could embrace and utilize the technology of the internet to raise more money than the "Clinton Machine" AND the full might of the "GOP Machine" COMBINED. By asking people to just give him $5.00, when they could, to help him become the 44th President of the United States!

There is just NO convincing me that Prince doesn't do what he SHOULD be doing to make his money because 100,000 people no longer have to stand in line, in front of what USED to be "wrekka stows"!

squirrelgrease said:

awwww

can you post me some dream catcher earrings? I really want some

muleFunk said:

Wrong point again. Since Prince was released from his Warner contract he makes much MORE off each new CD sold, while owning it too.

Haven't you paid any attention? He has been bragging for YEARS that these days he makes more on one new CD selling just 200.000 copies, than he used to on one selling a million. He is "number 1 at the bank" because of that.

He is still paid handsomely BEFORE a new album is released and he hardly has to work to promote it. He just pops out another album, cashes in and keeps on living like a Prince, more than ever before (mansions costing him 200K a month and other money wasting bullshit).

File sharing doesn't hurt him. You have absolutely ZERO evidence of that.

All you just did is make false excuses for him not to release music. The kind the music industry has been making ever since the internet came up. The kind that lies at the core of their unethical refusal to make music widely, legally available to the public at a fair price.

When will they (and you) get it that if they don't make it available OTHERS WILL ANYHOW. So you better "get on the boat" or you simply miss out.

That's the reason the music industry is in such a shitty state. Filesharing doesn't kill music. The music industry itself with its failure to offer a legal alternative, its eternal greediness and its false excuses do.

So again: if Prince hates filesharing and bootlegging so much, he might as well quit making music.

--
[Edited 4/10/10 4:40am]

Seriously mulefunk, as long as the music industry (and Prince for that matter) refuse to offer a proper legal alternative, all the complaints about filesharing fall on deaf ears with me. What the hell do they expect? People simply not to USE the internet to get the music just because THEY refuse to offer it themselves?

Also, as long as the music industry (and Prince for that matter) keeps on engaging in bad business practices, with contracts amounting to rich man's servitude, steep prices in record stores fixed by their cartel and (Prince's) websites that only serve as cash cows, they will not have any moral leg to stand on either, claiming they are done wrong. They do wrong all the time. They do not know any better.

All they have and all they will ever have is the LAW and technology. Well good luck with that. As we have witnessed the last 10 years, all the lawsuits and DRM have not been able to stop filesharing. In fact, they only hurt themselves with it. It cost them hundreds of millions in legal fees and failed DRM investments. Meanwhile consumers have only become even more reluctant to buy and filesharing is flourishing more than ever.

For their own sake: Artists and their companies need to get it through their heads. They are not in control any longer. The music lover is.

SO MAKE IT AVAILABLE AND SELL IT ALREADY


--
[Edited 4/10/10 5:39am]

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Yes, i just said i buy everything he releases because I'm hater. Damn, take off the purple tinted glasses. He isn't god. he does things wrong. we are allowed to complain.

Tremolina said:

I agree i just dont understand princes motives on keeping all them outtakes in his vaults and as long as he wont release them someone will also the law will be changed in the uk soon cause our government is trying to rush through a law that if you illegally download movies/music etc you will be cut off the internet

You still don't understand what I am saying in regards to "vault" material.

Prince still has to have someone to press and distribute his material i.e. CDs.

Prince is only wanting to release new material and not so called vault material which has already been bootlegged in some shape,form,or fashion.

The profit motive is not there to release this material to people who already have it meaning the hardcore Prince fan.

The best way to release that material was via the net, however if 20,000 people sign up for a site that may not have been the numbers he wanted for the release of that material.

Tremolina I don't disagree .I am looking at the release like a record company/Prince would. If it was me I would look at making as much money as I could.

mulefunk i hear what your saying but if prince released the vault material in top notch quiality i think most people would purchase it espeically the concerts hes pro recorded over the years imagine those being released on dvd/blueray

erik319 said:

Ah you have trouble understanding and I can read just fine. You make it sound like he was whining when he had no reason to. Just because "if he would release it, it would be purchased" doesn't make his stance against those maiking profit fom his unrelased stuff in the past wrong.

muleFunk said:

From a HEALTHY "record company perspective" that is simply not true. Fans CRAVE for the high guality tapes only Prince has and that are rotting in his vault for no apparant reason at all.

Further, he doesn't have to press CD's. All that is really needed is a site where you can legally download all the music in studio quality, which is NOT a huge investment compared to a worldwide CD release promotion and videos including.

Moreover the Vault music has already been produced. Much of it is finished and can be put online straight away. So there isn't any extra cost there either. All that could possibly be an issue that could take a lot of time, effort and money to sort out are legal issues and royalty payments. But that's what record companies are for, to handle those issues and RELEASE IT ALREADY. Or he could sort it out by re-recording some old stuff.

Prince could make a lot of money of regular vault releases, concert sound board recordings and DVD material. But by the looks of it, he just doesn't want to give it to his fans, because he doesn't like them all that much and feels that if they have it on boot already, they are not deserving of the best. It's that childish and simple really, if you ask me.

--
[Edited 4/10/10 14:09pm]

One more thing. I agree that it's completely justified if Prince complains about fans who BUY bootlegs.

That's much, much worse than filesharing because then they put money in the pockets of those who pirate his stuff.

However, doesn't the fact that fans even pay for crappy boots PROVE that they would definetely pay up for the high quality stuff?

Yes it does and you can bet too that fans would much rather support their favorite artists with their dollars than those who illegally profit.

It's simply losing out on lots of money for silly reasons and thus just another form of bad business.

xlr8r said:

yeah "probably"

Tremolina said:

Hey I agree with you and with the way it should be done.

I just think the Prince feels differently.

You don't have to have world-wide cd release promotion and videos to release any of it on physical cd either. Plenty of artists make a nice living off of releasing cds and touring. Granted touring makes a lot more money for these folks, but P could pretty much make a hefty sum just releasing some vault material himself and selling on-line (himself or a place like indie merch store or cd baby). Heck, Robert Fripp and King Crimson have had much more industry legal issues that P EVER had and they managed to do all right and actually tried to do something about, not just for themselves but for all musicians. Dicipline Global Mobile was a brilliant idea. On that note, P could really do something like DGM did with the King Crimson Collectors Club and self release a MASSIVE amount of live shows and other material.

fuzzfacefrombboard said:

Definitely agree. Sony (prev BMG/RCA) has had an Elvis Collector's label (Follow That Dream) since 1999. They release one or more cds every quarter and there only a few places to order them worldwide. They don't sell anywhere near the numbers people are floating here, yet even with remastering and restoration and having to buy long-lost/stolen tapes and dig through the vaults, they are making money on that label.

fuzzfacefrombboard said:

Co-sign! Check http://dgmlive.com and see how a musician/fan site is run.

I agree with the basis, if Prince released anything officially, limitedly or briefly online, you could bet the funk that I'd buy it, I hate having to find and d/l bottleg vault material, but if it's the only outlet for Prince material then I'd gladly give to the charity box everytime I do it.

I'm already up to (my own) Crystal Ball IV (5 disc in parts II, III as well) compilation, not including high quality live concerts, televised concerts from the 80s. I'd love to have them in pristine, mastered, officially endorsed by the musician, though I'm so used to my own compilations I'd disagree with the running order on what was official, most likely!

If the Lotusflow3r site was gonna be an outlet for his vault and Prince weren't happy with the numbers, then he shoulda called the websibe THE VAULT.com, he shoulda said (to coin a phrase from MJ) "This is it folks, come and get it, it'll cost you $77 for your first 150 downloads then charged $25 for 50 downloads, or whatever, charge for full concerts, for music videos, documentaries, pancake eating competitions, whatever.

muleFunk said:

All he has to do is sell the material with something personable... like some hair from his head, toe nail clipping, vile of semen.... you know, something to tack along with the cd. I know ... how about a concert ticket! Wait ... he did that with Musicology... but it worked damn it! He sold as ass load of cds that way. It so pissed off the record industry..... so the hell what?

I do beleive Prince lets his greed cloud his better judgement alot.

bassmungus said:

If $77 was ONLY for membership/access to the Vault, with the downloads themselves costing a few dollars each, it would still be acceptable in my book.

The main point here is that Vault tracks would have to be uploaded en masse.

Hey! Wake up children !!!!!
The Vault does not exist... it's just a myth !!!!!

saafiir said:

It exists, but I really believe that it's extremely overhyped, the stuff of rock legend.

muleFunk said:

Id buy it if it was in good sound and official with artwork. However he is missing his own gravy train not doing anything about the bootleggers. Suing one person will not stop the other thousands. I wonder how much money he missed out on the Purple Underground BEFORE file sharing.

saafiir said:

Yeah, I agree, but we do know for sure that there are hundreds of tracks that he has not released. So I guess thats the point here? Be it physical or a load of tracks.

Militant said:

I think this has be his answer the whole time. He needs a talented obsessive fan to run his web site. Off hand i think of the creative relationship between nine inch nails and Rob Sheridan. Say what you want about their output they have kept NIN fans happy and very willing to support the group.

I just don't understand the mess, the first NPG music club was awesome, got my money's worth and then some!!!!!