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Printable toy4him said: Mars23 said: Remember that thread we started back in October about trying to help those abandoned by lotusflow3r support? Well, I want you to know we tried and we tried a lot of people.
I apologize for not getting this up before now, with the 1 year mark only hours away. I hope some people might see this and still have time to change their credit card info if they so desire. We started out with lotusflow3r support. We quickly found out that their phone was disconnected and e-mails to sales and support were going unread and of course, unanswered. This was 6 months into the 1 year subscription. We tried for a response for about 4 weeks at least twice a week. It was decided then that sometimes the only thing that gets attention was a good old public shaming, we did not want to do this on the org yet, but we did reach out to several media outlets. Some were too big to care, others were getting scraps from Prince and did not want to jeopardize that. Some were CJ and she didn't even respond. The original Billy Jack Bitch wouldn't even go after Prince's poor business practices. Then we turned to the developers personally. Scott Addison Clay never returned the message, but Anthony Malzone did send a few responses. To date he has been unable to provide any information that would prove helpful. So...that's where we stand after 6 months of trying, we simply just didn't get anywhere. The last course of action as recommended to me by the Better Business Bureau is to start filing claims with both the Minnesota and California Better Business Bureaus and the Attorney General's offices for both states. We now know due to other court filings and terms on the site that the business address for lotusflow3r is located in the LA area and doing business as "lotusflow3r", but we haven't found more than that yet. I wish I had more to report. At least current events have shown that Prince is not invincible and the courts are making him pay for the poor business practices he has employed as of late. At the minimum, a good number of people did not receive the minimum promised material from the site. At the worst, Prince and lotusflow3r employed false advertising to entice people to join the site. That's where we are and it is sad. It seems so petty that a t-shirt would be a cause for something like this, but the heart of the matter is larger than that. It is about how an artist chooses to relate to fans, how that has changed, and taking responsibility for how a business is run. Feel free to go to town on us, tell us how YOU were satisfied and no-one understands Prince like you do, but that is an opinion, just as the feeling of being ripped off is an opinion. Fortunately for the fans and perhaps unfortunately for Prince the feeling ripped off opinion is one with evidence to back it up. Remember, the site terms state you must send an e-mail to sales@lotusflow3r.com to cancel your membership. A futile gesture, but if they do try and charge you, you'll have that to dispute the charge. Good luck to anyone still trying, let us know how it goes and of course we'll report any news that comes our way. I hate to say this but must. I hope everyone took the time to read the Terms and Conditions BEFORE signing up. Am I the only one that takes the time to read these things? I wonder if this portion would pertain to those dang T-shirts: 3.11 - Lotusflow3r reserves the right to modify, suspend, or DISCONTUNUE Products or Memberships at any time with or without notice to you. Lotusflow3r will not be liable to you or to any third party should it exercise such rights. Maybe it's just the way I read it, but it seems like there was never an absolute guarantee of any sort for anything!!. My guess is that almost none of the people that signed up read anything. As far as I know all websites have built in clauses to protect themselves in the event of certain issues. They all protect, or at least try to protect themselves from liablity. Lotusflower.com is no different, no better and no worse. Or is it,just a case of the rules not applying in this instance? As I was informed recently by a fellow Orger...the rules regarding THIS site don't apply to them, not that they read them. So why read them? Because they matter, if not to you, trust me thay matter to the site owner(s). That's why they're posted. It all seems so familiar with this whole internet thing. It would be interesting if this (T-shirt?) issue is reported to the BBB and Attorneys General of various states. Is Lotusflow3r.com perfect? A better question is whether any website can be considered perfect. The truth is, nothing in life is perfect...such is life. By the way does anyone know how much it cost Prince or his company to gain access to videos that Warner Brothers owns? So much is assumed about who owns what and where the money went. The angst is quite understandable, but it's also very ironic. Yes we all work hard for our money, that includes Prince. Everyone I know, including myself, works to produce something and they/we all expect to get paid for it. Every single one of them/us would be livid if what they/we produced was taken (ie: downloads) from them/us without payment. So I say this, ye without sin cast the first stone, go ahead and try to bite the hand that feeds you. I think it could be very interesting to say the least. Prince can't hide behind legal mumbo jumbo. We need a volunteer to go out to Paisley Park and knock on the damn door.  | |
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and rebuke your post ok? But don't worry, not like a fam 
IstenSzek said: with the end of year 1 so close, it seems unlikely that there will be
anything new under the 1st year membership. to me it seems unlikely we will even see a second year. you have to wonder tho, what happened there. it's impossible that the man thought this was gonna be it for the whole year and charged us 77 bucks for it. he must have planned on a lot more but somehow it never came into being. but by now he has to be conscious of people's complaints and of how we discuss the sites failure (in most people's eyes it is, altho there is a small minority group who seem to be perfectly happy with it). the most obvious negativity for me is: * no tshirt for many, many people. even after the org poll and emails on the subject, no word. * no 'interactive' live concert, which they said would likely happen, with people picking songs and prince playing them online. * no '10 hours worth of unreleased material', that was mentioned. not promoted, no, but mentioned all the same. * no alternate/outtake pictures of vintage album artwork, which were mentioned either in the press release or by prince in an interview. * streaming vids and audio only. * streaming vid and audio was almost impossible to watch for the first few months until they finally installed a 'loading' vid player. but it is still less than average even to this day. * prince offering songs to websites, football teams, radiostations and god knows who, yet not putting any of them on the official site, even tho the material is being downloaded illegally by anyone with a modem. * in the end, too little too late, we get "cause and effect", after it has debuted on radio and is streaming on several sites. yet, we only get it in streaming audio once again. i'm aware that you can get those files in certain folders once you've been listening to them etc etc. but is that the point? he gave us mp3 and wav files over the years so what's up now? * no communication, at all. no news, no updates on what's going on or why he's chosen to be so silent or so tight with releasing material to the site. * year 2 is on the doorstep and yet nobody knows what will happen. there is no membership drive or hype, no news, no communication thru the sites supposed support team. people don't know if they'll be charged again or if the site will close, will have a second year run and how or why that will come to be. i kept on hoping stuff would start to trickle in but yesterday evening even i gave up and changed by cc info so that they would at least not be able to charge me again before we know exactly what we'll be getting for another 'donation'. despite all those negative points, i WILL sign up again, but only if he decides to go with a new format in which we'll be told exactly what we can expect. album names and tracklists, outtake details or whatever. but unless i know 95% of the content and am 100% sure it will be released, i'm walking away from it. You know istens, 'alleen een ezel stoot zichzelf twee keer aan dezelfde steen.' So either you are joking there that "its impossible the man thought this was gonna be it for the whole year" or you are remarkably naive and foolish still, after all these years, all these broken promises and all these unfulfilled 'xpectations' over some 'candy' or 'pfunk' costing you just a 'c-note'. Don't you remember how clearly they advertised, that year 2 of NPGMC would bring at least 4 new Prince cd's, including mentioning the titles of 4 new albums? How many of these albums materialised and how many details do you need to fall for it again? Really, if you still think that Prince's bad business practices are motivated by his 'artistic whims' or his likeness of 'surprises' or something like that, then you just don't see. Of course he is aware of all the complaints he gets. Of course he doesn't like it. Who else are his lines about 'haters on the internet' not getting anymore 'candy' directed at? And why else does he release a new tune, EVERY time he screws up 'something big' again? What do such reactions tell you? They tell me at least, clearly, that he definetely does notice, but also definetely doesn't want to listen to fans complaining. Yet that he also feels the need to react and even 'defend' himself against them, which illustrates his awareness of his own guilt in all this shit. His reactions however also tell that he is adamant, that his fans 'better learn the rules, if they want to play with him', no matter how crazy, or wrong these rules may be. Like true and loyal fams, not fans, they should expect nothing, yet support him unconditionally and without 'negativity'. Whether fans have been truly wronged or not. Whether they got all the stuff they paid for or not. Whether they find it too expensive, a rip off, a scam, a PR disaster or a customer service nightmare or whatever. Surely he would have done SOMETHING to improve on those issues if he would care about not having unhappy fans, wouldn't he? And surely he wouldn't just be writing indignant and belligerent words about it, basically telling fans to go to hell. But he got your money already, so what you gonna do now? It ain't no use sending them dozens of emails about it, obviously. And you may not even have a case when you complain or file suit. After all, the general terms of the agreement tell you quite clearly, that you cannot expect shit from lotusflow3r and that if you still do, but don't get what you expected, asked, hoped or wished for, that you are tough out of luck, because according to these terms you were promised NOTHING and they are not liable for anything you, hardest of the hardcore fans, may have dreamt up in your bootleg dreams. Before lotusflow3r his general terms weren't THAT far stretching. The current terms go so far often even that I seriously doubt (parts of) it could stand in court. What does that tell you? It tells me that he talked to his lawyers about the other years and that he wanted all liability for any shit he may pull again excluded. Anyway, legally, it therefore seems that the only chance left to force a change, is when fans file a class action law suit based on false or misleading advertising and or business fraud actions. I am not saying that would stand a good chance, but if it happens, it could build a lot of pressure on the other side, which who knows, then would finally lead to some grand revelation that you can't and shouldn't fuck with other people like Prince does. Not even with fans.
But if you ask me, fans are too sweet, too chicken, too cheap and don't care enough about this crap either, to be so bold and pay him back with a taste of his own medicine. However, in case a miracle happens and they decide to fight, they should at least seriously consider collectively sueing him. And if they are REALLY smart (but alas... most fans are emotionally controlled by prince's music and thus not really smart lol) they would stop joining his sites all together and sign a mass petititon explaining him in perfect princebonics why. 
I am pretty sure that only then, Prince would really seriously consider changing his ways. Because the language of money is a language Prince speaks very well. He is a "businessman" after all. -- [Edited 3/23/10 11:43am] | |
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JoeZeo said: Although I agree that LotusFlow3r has been a huge disappointment, I gotta say I got my money's worth. Through the website, I was able to snag tickets to all three LA shows last March - which is a night I'll never forget. That Conga Room show was one of his best.
So a concert with tons of sound problems was "one of his best". © Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights. It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for your use. All rights reserved. | |
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luv4u said: I still want to be able to exchange my kiddies size Tshirt for an adult size Tshirt
After receiving it and trying it on and finding it's more "fitting" for an 8 year old child..... I put it back inside the original shipping package. It's collecting dust now
I was going to email to arrange for the above simple exchange and then the above shit happened of not having an email contact. Sounds like the T-shirt you got would fit me just fine...maybe we can find a way for you to sell it to me. Or maybe you could list it on eBay, lots of people buy all sorts of things there...just a thought. | |
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I also canceled my membership.
Mars said it all, sad post but well said! What´s up with the Prince world 2day? No more NPGMC, no more HQ, no more Uptown magazines, no more videos on youtube (although some still pop up), no more live DVDs, no more enlarged tours,no more signs at all... No more candy for us? Prince.org is the only place to be when it comes to Prince and lave in nostalgia... | |
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toy4him said: Mars23 said: Remember that thread we started back in October about trying to help those abandoned by lotusflow3r support? Well, I want you to know we tried and we tried a lot of people.
I apologize for not getting this up before now, with the 1 year mark only hours away. I hope some people might see this and still have time to change their credit card info if they so desire. We started out with lotusflow3r support. We quickly found out that their phone was disconnected and e-mails to sales and support were going unread and of course, unanswered. This was 6 months into the 1 year subscription. We tried for a response for about 4 weeks at least twice a week. It was decided then that sometimes the only thing that gets attention was a good old public shaming, we did not want to do this on the org yet, but we did reach out to several media outlets. Some were too big to care, others were getting scraps from Prince and did not want to jeopardize that. Some were CJ and she didn't even respond. The original Billy Jack Bitch wouldn't even go after Prince's poor business practices. Then we turned to the developers personally. Scott Addison Clay never returned the message, but Anthony Malzone did send a few responses. To date he has been unable to provide any information that would prove helpful. So...that's where we stand after 6 months of trying, we simply just didn't get anywhere. The last course of action as recommended to me by the Better Business Bureau is to start filing claims with both the Minnesota and California Better Business Bureaus and the Attorney General's offices for both states. We now know due to other court filings and terms on the site that the business address for lotusflow3r is located in the LA area and doing business as "lotusflow3r", but we haven't found more than that yet. I wish I had more to report. At least current events have shown that Prince is not invincible and the courts are making him pay for the poor business practices he has employed as of late. At the minimum, a good number of people did not receive the minimum promised material from the site. At the worst, Prince and lotusflow3r employed false advertising to entice people to join the site. That's where we are and it is sad. It seems so petty that a t-shirt would be a cause for something like this, but the heart of the matter is larger than that. It is about how an artist chooses to relate to fans, how that has changed, and taking responsibility for how a business is run. Feel free to go to town on us, tell us how YOU were satisfied and no-one understands Prince like you do, but that is an opinion, just as the feeling of being ripped off is an opinion. Fortunately for the fans and perhaps unfortunately for Prince the feeling ripped off opinion is one with evidence to back it up. Remember, the site terms state you must send an e-mail to sales@lotusflow3r.com to cancel your membership. A futile gesture, but if they do try and charge you, you'll have that to dispute the charge. Good luck to anyone still trying, let us know how it goes and of course we'll report any news that comes our way. [color=indigo] I hate to say this but must. I hope everyone took the time to read the Terms and Conditions BEFORE signing up. Am I the only one that takes the time to read these things? I wonder if this portion would pertain to those dang T-shirts: 3.11 - Lotusflow3r reserves the right to modify, suspend, or DISCONTUNUE Products or Memberships at any time with or without notice to you. Lotusflow3r will not be liable to you or to any third party should it exercise such rights. Maybe it's just the way I read it, but it seems like there was never an absolute guarantee of any sort for anything!!. My guess is that almost none of the people that signed up read anything. As far as I know all websites have built in clauses to protect themselves in the event of certain issues. They all protect, or at least try to protect themselves from liablity. Lotusflower.com is no different, no better and no worse. Or is it,just a case of the rules not applying in this instance? As I was informed recently by a fellow Orger...the rules regarding THIS site don't apply to them, not that they read them. So why read them? Because they matter, if not to you, trust me thay matter to the site owner(s). That's why they're posted. In principle these terms are valid. Some may go too far, but that would depend on californian law and a californian court ultimately, if that's the choice of law in the agreement at least. However, for Europeans, these terms may not be valid because they violate certain laws protecting consumers on the internet. Either way, for any legal action it's probably not the best way to go. | |
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luv4u said: I still want to be able to exchange my kiddies size Tshirt for an adult size Tshirt
After receiving it and trying it on and finding it's more "fitting" for an 8 year old child..... I put it back inside the original shipping package. It's collecting dust now
I was going to email to arrange for the above simple exchange and then the above shit happened of not having an email contact. Make it into a pillow and then beat the stuffings out of it. It's theraputic. I'm firmly planted in denial | |
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Tremolina said: I'm gonna go out on a limb and rebuke your post ok? But don't worry, not like a fam
IstenSzek said: with the end of year 1 so close, it seems unlikely that there will be
anything new under the 1st year membership. to me it seems unlikely we will even see a second year. you have to wonder tho, what happened there. it's impossible that the man thought this was gonna be it for the whole year and charged us 77 bucks for it. he must have planned on a lot more but somehow it never came into being. but by now he has to be conscious of people's complaints and of how we discuss the sites failure (in most people's eyes it is, altho there is a small minority group who seem to be perfectly happy with it). the most obvious negativity for me is: * no tshirt for many, many people. even after the org poll and emails on the subject, no word. * no 'interactive' live concert, which they said would likely happen, with people picking songs and prince playing them online. * no '10 hours worth of unreleased material', that was mentioned. not promoted, no, but mentioned all the same. * no alternate/outtake pictures of vintage album artwork, which were mentioned either in the press release or by prince in an interview. * streaming vids and audio only. * streaming vid and audio was almost impossible to watch for the first few months until they finally installed a 'loading' vid player. but it is still less than average even to this day. * prince offering songs to websites, football teams, radiostations and god knows who, yet not putting any of them on the official site, even tho the material is being downloaded illegally by anyone with a modem. * in the end, too little too late, we get "cause and effect", after it has debuted on radio and is streaming on several sites. yet, we only get it in streaming audio once again. i'm aware that you can get those files in certain folders once you've been listening to them etc etc. but is that the point? he gave us mp3 and wav files over the years so what's up now? * no communication, at all. no news, no updates on what's going on or why he's chosen to be so silent or so tight with releasing material to the site. * year 2 is on the doorstep and yet nobody knows what will happen. there is no membership drive or hype, no news, no communication thru the sites supposed support team. people don't know if they'll be charged again or if the site will close, will have a second year run and how or why that will come to be. i kept on hoping stuff would start to trickle in but yesterday evening even i gave up and changed by cc info so that they would at least not be able to charge me again before we know exactly what we'll be getting for another 'donation'. despite all those negative points, i WILL sign up again, but only if he decides to go with a new format in which we'll be told exactly what we can expect. album names and tracklists, outtake details or whatever. but unless i know 95% of the content and am 100% sure it will be released, i'm walking away from it. You know istens, 'alleen een ezel stoot zichzelf twee keer aan dezelfde steen.' So either you are joking there that "its impossible the man thought this was gonna be it for the whole year" or you are remarkably naive and foolish still, after all these years, all these broken promises and all these unfulfilled 'xpectations' over some 'candy' or 'pfunk' costing you just a 'c-note'. Don't you remember how clearly they advertised, that year 2 of NPGMC would bring at least 4 new Prince cd's, including mentioning the titles of 4 new albums? How many of these albums materialised and how many details do you need to fall for it again? Really, if you still think that Prince's bad business practices are motivated by his 'artistic whims' or his likeness of 'surprises' or something like that, then you just don't see. Of course he is aware of all the complaints he gets. Of course he doesn't like it. Who else are his lines about 'haters on the internet' not getting anymore 'candy' directed at? And why else does he release a new tune, EVERY time he screws up 'something big' again? What do such reactions tell you? They tell me at least, clearly, that he definetely does notice, but also definetely doesn't want to listen to fans complaining. Yet that he also feels the need to react and even 'defend' himself against them, which illustrates his awareness of his own guilt in all this shit. His reactions however also tell that he is adamant, that his fans 'better learn the rules, if they want to play with him', no matter how crazy, or wrong these rules may be. Like true and loyal fams, not fans, they should expect nothing, yet support him unconditionally and without 'negativity'. Whether fans have been truly wronged or not. Whether they got all the stuff they paid for or not. Whether they find it too expensive, a rip off, a scam, a PR disaster or a customer service nightmare or whatever. Surely he would have done SOMETHING to improve on those issues if he would care about not having unhappy fans, wouldn't he? And surely he wouldn't just be writing indignant and belligerent words about it, basically telling fans to go to hell. But he got your money already, so what you gonna do now? It ain't no use sending them dozens of emails about it, obviously. And you may not even have a case when you complain or file suit. After all, the general terms of the agreement tell you quite clearly, that you cannot expect shit from lotusflow3r and that if you still do, but don't get what you expected, asked, hoped or wished for, that you are tough out of luck, because according to these terms you were promised NOTHING and they are not liable for anything you, hardest of the hardcore fans, may have dreamt up in your bootleg dreams. Before lotusflow3r his general terms weren't THAT far stretching. The current terms go so far often even that I seriously doubt (parts of) it could stand in court. What does that tell you? It tells me that he talked to his lawyers about the other years and that he wanted all liability for any shit he may pull again excluded. Anyway, legally, it therefore seems that the only chance left to force a change, is when fans file a class action law suit based on false or misleading advertising and or business fraud actions. I am not saying that would stand a good chance, but if it happens, it could build a lot of pressure on the other side, which who knows, then would finally lead to some grand revelation that you can't and shouldn't fuck with other people like Prince does. Not even with fans.
But if you ask me, fans are too sweet, too chicken, too cheap and don't care enough about this crap either, to be so bold and pay him back with a taste of his own medicine. However, in case a miracle happens and they decide to fight, they should at least seriously consider collectively sueing him. And if they are REALLY smart (but alas... most fans are emotionally controlled by prince's music and thus not really smart lol) they would stop joining his sites all together and sign a mass petititon explaining him in perfect princebonics why.
I am pretty sure that only then, Prince would really seriously consider changing his ways. Because the language of money is a language Prince speaks very well. He is a "businessman" after all. -- [Edited 3/23/10 11:43am] Now that would be interesting. I find it remarkable and incomprehensible that you'd advise anyone to sue Prince for this or anything else. Wonder if they'll take your advice? It would be fascinating for a court of law to decide whom owes what to whom IMHO. | |
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Im so glad that I was too broke to join. Just to think if i scrapped up enough dough to join and didnt receive a tshirt or the cds wouldve really pissed me off. I had been a member of his other clubs/websites since the Dawn and just dont have the disposable cash I once had. Those of you who do ..be careful. Once I hear of a Tour coming near Cleveland and that i can get preferred seating as before, I may join. I may take a chance of scrapping up tixs in line jsut like that the good old days. That was rather fun way of meeting ppl that dug the music as much as i did. Technology is good but it makes us Soft and Wet. LOL Thank U 4 letting me be myself | |
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1 word: BUST. | |
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In my opinion $77 wasted!! No T shirt, yes i downloaded the 3 albums, but as i am in Scotland, thats about it im afraid. People keep making excuses for Prince and keep coming back with the statement, "Prince doesn't owe us anything"!. Im sorry but YES he does, i buy every release and snippet he gracefully gives us, i'm not rich, i work hard and spend money appreciating his music. I give him my money and time, it's about time Prince stuck his head out of his artistic arse and realised that many of his fans are now losing patience with him.
Have i reached the end of the line, probably not, and you've probably heard this all before, so Rant Over!!! AND ON THE 7TH DAY OF THE 6TH MONTH..GOD CREATED FUNK!!! | |
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revolutionboy said: In my opinion $77 wasted!! No T shirt, yes i downloaded the 3 albums, but as i am in Scotland, thats about it im afraid. People keep making excuses for Prince and keep coming back with the statement, "Prince doesn't owe us anything"!. Im sorry but YES he does, i buy every release and snippet he gracefully gives us, i'm not rich, i work hard and spend money appreciating his music. I give him my money and time, it's about time Prince stuck his head out of his artistic arse and realised that many of his fans are now losing patience with him.
Have i reached the end of the line, probably not, and you've probably heard this all before, so Rant Over!!! Once you start accepting money for your art you cross a line.  I'm firmly planted in denial | |
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Lol....I feel for u all.
I learned my lesson early on, he took my hard earned $1.99 (ya big spender) but I wanted to test the waters of lake minatonka first, ice cold....never again. I wish u all the best! | |
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7souls said: Come on fams, I know you're out there somewhere just ready to defend your lord and master at all cost. Let us hear from ya...
I'll even help get you started with some of the classics: -Something big is brewing, we just have to be patient... -Daddy Pop is too sexy to have time to deal with this... -An artist has the right to change his mind when he sees fit... -Why should he give you anything when you complain... -Prince is love, and I love him... -Prince doesn't owe us anything... (I always love that one. (c) Paul Allen KFAN) wot about stimpy? | |
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You need to contact a consumer association. There is surely something illegal in this.
Prince is becoming such a prick. He may have a service provider operating the site but he still has a responsibility in this. | |
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toy4him said: I hate to say this but must. I hope everyone took the time to read the Terms and Conditions BEFORE signing up. Am I the only one that takes the time to read these things? I wonder if this portion would pertain to those dang T-shirts:
3.11 - Lotusflow3r reserves the right to modify, suspend, or DISCONTUNUE Products or Memberships at any time with or without notice to you. Lotusflow3r will not be liable to you or to any third party should it exercise such rights. Maybe it's just the way I read it, but it seems like there was never an absolute guarantee of any sort for anything!!. It's just the way you read it. Have you never read an EULA before? toy4him said: A better question is whether any website can be considered perfect.
Are you frikking serious? toy4him said: By the way does anyone know how much it cost Prince or his company to gain access to videos that Warner Brothers owns?
FOR FUCK'S SAKE. He's left Warners FIFTEEN FUCKING YEARS ago, and you lot STILL use that as an excuse for his incompetence. It's never Prince with you lot. toy4him said: Every single one of them/us would be livid if what they/we produced was taken (ie: downloads) from them/us without payment.
I have said FROM DAY ONE that his current website is one huge gaping security hole. A month ago or so you DID NOT EVEN HAVE TO ENTER A VALID LOGIN to gain access to everything on the site. Oh, and wanna know how to beat illegal downloads? By offering an affordable, easy to use alternative. LF was NEITHER. © Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights. It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for your use. All rights reserved. | |
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IstenSzek said: polkadotbliss said: though i am DISGUSTED some got no tee-and they have to be the shittest-most rude outta touch customer service since Basil Fawlty
silly ducks  lol. i like to think that mani was like sybil fawlty, and kept prince on a tight leash, telling him what to do. poor bria is probably more like polly | |
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toy4him said: Mars23 said: Remember that thread we started back in October about trying to help those abandoned by lotusflow3r support? Well, I want you to know we tried and we tried a lot of people.
I apologize for not getting this up before now, with the 1 year mark only hours away. I hope some people might see this and still have time to change their credit card info if they so desire. We started out with lotusflow3r support. We quickly found out that their phone was disconnected and e-mails to sales and support were going unread and of course, unanswered. This was 6 months into the 1 year subscription. We tried for a response for about 4 weeks at least twice a week. It was decided then that sometimes the only thing that gets attention was a good old public shaming, we did not want to do this on the org yet, but we did reach out to several media outlets. Some were too big to care, others were getting scraps from Prince and did not want to jeopardize that. Some were CJ and she didn't even respond. The original Billy Jack Bitch wouldn't even go after Prince's poor business practices. Then we turned to the developers personally. Scott Addison Clay never returned the message, but Anthony Malzone did send a few responses. To date he has been unable to provide any information that would prove helpful. So...that's where we stand after 6 months of trying, we simply just didn't get anywhere. The last course of action as recommended to me by the Better Business Bureau is to start filing claims with both the Minnesota and California Better Business Bureaus and the Attorney General's offices for both states. We now know due to other court filings and terms on the site that the business address for lotusflow3r is located in the LA area and doing business as "lotusflow3r", but we haven't found more than that yet. I wish I had more to report. At least current events have shown that Prince is not invincible and the courts are making him pay for the poor business practices he has employed as of late. At the minimum, a good number of people did not receive the minimum promised material from the site. At the worst, Prince and lotusflow3r employed false advertising to entice people to join the site. That's where we are and it is sad. It seems so petty that a t-shirt would be a cause for something like this, but the heart of the matter is larger than that. It is about how an artist chooses to relate to fans, how that has changed, and taking responsibility for how a business is run. Feel free to go to town on us, tell us how YOU were satisfied and no-one understands Prince like you do, but that is an opinion, just as the feeling of being ripped off is an opinion. Fortunately for the fans and perhaps unfortunately for Prince the feeling ripped off opinion is one with evidence to back it up. Remember, the site terms state you must send an e-mail to sales@lotusflow3r.com to cancel your membership. A futile gesture, but if they do try and charge you, you'll have that to dispute the charge. Good luck to anyone still trying, let us know how it goes and of course we'll report any news that comes our way. I hate to say this but must. I hope everyone took the time to read the Terms and Conditions BEFORE signing up. Am I the only one that takes the time to read these things? I wonder if this portion would pertain to those dang T-shirts: 3.11 - Lotusflow3r reserves the right to modify, suspend, or DISCONTUNUE Products or Memberships at any time with or without notice to you. Lotusflow3r will not be liable to you or to any third party should it exercise such rights. Maybe it's just the way I read it, but it seems like there was never an absolute guarantee of any sort for anything!!. My guess is that almost none of the people that signed up read anything. As far as I know all websites have built in clauses to protect themselves in the event of certain issues. They all protect, or at least try to protect themselves from liablity. Lotusflower.com is no different, no better and no worse. Or is it,just a case of the rules not applying in this instance? As I was informed recently by a fellow Orger...the rules regarding THIS site don't apply to them, not that they read them. So why read them? Because they matter, if not to you, trust me thay matter to the site owner(s). That's why they're posted. It all seems so familiar with this whole internet thing. It would be interesting if this (T-shirt?) issue is reported to the BBB and Attorneys General of various states. Is Lotusflow3r.com perfect? A better question is whether any website can be considered perfect. The truth is, nothing in life is perfect...such is life. By the way does anyone know how much it cost Prince or his company to gain access to videos that Warner Brothers owns? So much is assumed about who owns what and where the money went. The angst is quite understandable, but it's also very ironic. Yes we all work hard for our money, that includes Prince. Everyone I know, including myself, works to produce something and they/we all expect to get paid for it. Every single one of them/us would be livid if what they/we produced was taken (ie: downloads) from them/us without payment. So I say this, ye without sin cast the first stone, go ahead and try to bite the hand that feeds you. I think it could be very interesting to say the least. Just because someone agrees to something in a contract doesn't mean that agreement is legally applicable. This is a stretch for this situation. But certain rights are not separable regardless if agreed to in a contract or not. I can sign a contract saying if I don't pay so-and-so $20 by fri, it's allowable for them to take my life. U just cant do it. There's a gray area here and Prince is definitely deep into it. | |
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I've said it before and I will say it again, he has dipped into the cookie jar too many times. Thats it, he is now finished online. One avenue of income fucked.
Well done greedy guts. C'mon Prince how are you going to sell your next cd? Ass.  "My God it's full of Stars"
Indigo Club, September 21st 2008, 4.24am | |
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If you figured out how to download all the videos and songs on the site, then it was worth $77 IMHO (t-shirt debacle notwithstanding).
Problem is, Prince didn't show/allow downloading. I think I remember someone posting that in the Terms, it said it was OK to download stuff. But you had to know how to do it, or buy a third-party program to do it. And I, ummmm, "heard" that TubeTV for Macs worked for awhile, and then got blocked. | |
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BartVanHemelen said: JoeZeo said: Although I agree that LotusFlow3r has been a huge disappointment, I gotta say I got my money's worth. Through the website, I was able to snag tickets to all three LA shows last March - which is a night I'll never forget. That Conga Room show was one of his best.
So a concert with tons of sound problems was "one of his best". ----- [Snip - Mars23] | |
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funksterr said: toy4him said: I hate to say this but must. I hope everyone took the time to read the Terms and Conditions BEFORE signing up. Am I the only one that takes the time to read these things? I wonder if this portion would pertain to those dang T-shirts: 3.11 - Lotusflow3r reserves the right to modify, suspend, or DISCONTUNUE Products or Memberships at any time with or without notice to you. Lotusflow3r will not be liable to you or to any third party should it exercise such rights. Maybe it's just the way I read it, but it seems like there was never an absolute guarantee of any sort for anything!!. My guess is that almost none of the people that signed up read anything. As far as I know all websites have built in clauses to protect themselves in the event of certain issues. They all protect, or at least try to protect themselves from liablity. Lotusflower.com is no different, no better and no worse. Or is it,just a case of the rules not applying in this instance? As I was informed recently by a fellow Orger...the rules regarding THIS site don't apply to them, not that they read them. So why read them? Because they matter, if not to you, trust me thay matter to the site owner(s). That's why they're posted. It all seems so familiar with this whole internet thing. It would be interesting if this (T-shirt?) issue is reported to the BBB and Attorneys General of various states. Is Lotusflow3r.com perfect? A better question is whether any website can be considered perfect. The truth is, nothing in life is perfect...such is life. By the way does anyone know how much it cost Prince or his company to gain access to videos that Warner Brothers owns? So much is assumed about who owns what and where the money went. The angst is quite understandable, but it's also very ironic. Yes we all work hard for our money, that includes Prince. Everyone I know, including myself, works to produce something and they/we all expect to get paid for it. Every single one of them/us would be livid if what they/we produced was taken (ie: downloads) from them/us without payment. So I say this, ye without sin cast the first stone, go ahead and try to bite the hand that feeds you. I think it could be very interesting to say the least. Prince can't hide behind legal mumbo jumbo. We need a volunteer to go out to Paisley Park and knock on the damn door. Judge Judy | |
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funksterr said: toy4him said: I hate to say this but must. I hope everyone took the time to read the Terms and Conditions BEFORE signing up. Am I the only one that takes the time to read these things? I wonder if this portion would pertain to those dang T-shirts: 3.11 - Lotusflow3r reserves the right to modify, suspend, or DISCONTUNUE Products or Memberships at any time with or without notice to you. Lotusflow3r will not be liable to you or to any third party should it exercise such rights. Maybe it's just the way I read it, but it seems like there was never an absolute guarantee of any sort for anything!!. My guess is that almost none of the people that signed up read anything. As far as I know all websites have built in clauses to protect themselves in the event of certain issues. They all protect, or at least try to protect themselves from liablity. Lotusflower.com is no different, no better and no worse. Or is it,just a case of the rules not applying in this instance? As I was informed recently by a fellow Orger...the rules regarding THIS site don't apply to them, not that they read them. So why read them? Because they matter, if not to you, trust me thay matter to the site owner(s). That's why they're posted. It all seems so familiar with this whole internet thing. It would be interesting if this (T-shirt?) issue is reported to the BBB and Attorneys General of various states. Is Lotusflow3r.com perfect? A better question is whether any website can be considered perfect. The truth is, nothing in life is perfect...such is life. By the way does anyone know how much it cost Prince or his company to gain access to videos that Warner Brothers owns? So much is assumed about who owns what and where the money went. The angst is quite understandable, but it's also very ironic. Yes we all work hard for our money, that includes Prince. Everyone I know, including myself, works to produce something and they/we all expect to get paid for it. Every single one of them/us would be livid if what they/we produced was taken (ie: downloads) from them/us without payment. So I say this, ye without sin cast the first stone, go ahead and try to bite the hand that feeds you. I think it could be very interesting to say the least. Prince can't hide behind legal mumbo jumbo. We need a volunteer to go out to Paisley Park and knock on the damn door. [Edited 3/23/10 14:01pm] seems that i was busy doing something close to nothing, but different than the day before   | |
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toy4him said: Mars23 said: Remember that thread we started back in October about trying to help those abandoned by lotusflow3r support? Well, I want you to know we tried and we tried a lot of people.
I apologize for not getting this up before now, with the 1 year mark only hours away. I hope some people might see this and still have time to change their credit card info if they so desire. We started out with lotusflow3r support. We quickly found out that their phone was disconnected and e-mails to sales and support were going unread and of course, unanswered. This was 6 months into the 1 year subscription. We tried for a response for about 4 weeks at least twice a week. It was decided then that sometimes the only thing that gets attention was a good old public shaming, we did not want to do this on the org yet, but we did reach out to several media outlets. Some were too big to care, others were getting scraps from Prince and did not want to jeopardize that. Some were CJ and she didn't even respond. The original Billy Jack Bitch wouldn't even go after Prince's poor business practices. Then we turned to the developers personally. Scott Addison Clay never returned the message, but Anthony Malzone did send a few responses. To date he has been unable to provide any information that would prove helpful. So...that's where we stand after 6 months of trying, we simply just didn't get anywhere. The last course of action as recommended to me by the Better Business Bureau is to start filing claims with both the Minnesota and California Better Business Bureaus and the Attorney General's offices for both states. We now know due to other court filings and terms on the site that the business address for lotusflow3r is located in the LA area and doing business as "lotusflow3r", but we haven't found more than that yet. I wish I had more to report. At least current events have shown that Prince is not invincible and the courts are making him pay for the poor business practices he has employed as of late. At the minimum, a good number of people did not receive the minimum promised material from the site. At the worst, Prince and lotusflow3r employed false advertising to entice people to join the site. That's where we are and it is sad. It seems so petty that a t-shirt would be a cause for something like this, but the heart of the matter is larger than that. It is about how an artist chooses to relate to fans, how that has changed, and taking responsibility for how a business is run. Feel free to go to town on us, tell us how YOU were satisfied and no-one understands Prince like you do, but that is an opinion, just as the feeling of being ripped off is an opinion. Fortunately for the fans and perhaps unfortunately for Prince the feeling ripped off opinion is one with evidence to back it up. Remember, the site terms state you must send an e-mail to sales@lotusflow3r.com to cancel your membership. A futile gesture, but if they do try and charge you, you'll have that to dispute the charge. Good luck to anyone still trying, let us know how it goes and of course we'll report any news that comes our way. I hate to say this but must. I hope everyone took the time to read the Terms and Conditions BEFORE signing up. Am I the only one that takes the time to read these things? I wonder if this portion would pertain to those dang T-shirts: 3.11 - Lotusflow3r reserves the right to modify, suspend, or DISCONTUNUE Products or Memberships at any time with or without notice to you. Lotusflow3r will not be liable to you or to any third party should it exercise such rights. Maybe it's just the way I read it, but it seems like there was never an absolute guarantee of any sort for anything!!. My guess is that almost none of the people that signed up read anything. As far as I know all websites have built in clauses to protect themselves in the event of certain issues. They all protect, or at least try to protect themselves from liablity. Lotusflower.com is no different, no better and no worse. Or is it,just a case of the rules not applying in this instance? As I was informed recently by a fellow Orger...the rules regarding THIS site don't apply to them, not that they read them. So why read them? Because they matter, if not to you, trust me thay matter to the site owner(s). That's why they're posted. It all seems so familiar with this whole internet thing. It would be interesting if this (T-shirt?) issue is reported to the BBB and Attorneys General of various states. Is Lotusflow3r.com perfect? A better question is whether any website can be considered perfect. The truth is, nothing in life is perfect...such is life. By the way does anyone know how much it cost Prince or his company to gain access to videos that Warner Brothers owns? So much is assumed about who owns what and where the money went. The angst is quite understandable, but it's also very ironic. Yes we all work hard for our money, that includes Prince. Everyone I know, including myself, works to produce something and they/we all expect to get paid for it. Every single one of them/us would be livid if what they/we produced was taken (ie: downloads) from them/us without payment. So I say this, ye without sin cast the first stone, go ahead and try to bite the hand that feeds you. I think it could be very interesting to say the least. If you care to go back to the 1st day of LF and the discussions on here, you will find that I DID read the terms and made note of them many times here as a reason to be leery of the site. However, a purposefully vague terms and conditions clause is not anything to hide behind on what has been committed to already by the site and it certainly does not change the business practice of the bait and switch. Simply saying "you should have read the terms" does not change the facts of what transpired. Studies have shown the ass crack of the average Prince fan to be abnormally large. This explains the ease and frequency of their panties bunching up in it. |
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moderatorWhat if year 2 costs you nothing. That's $38.50 per year. Although, it's an IF.  99.9% of everything I say is strictly for my own entertainment | |
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Prince is a conman. A thieving, conniving, lying, cheating swindling scumbag.
He preaches about stuff that is the opposite of how he lives his own life. He shits on people to get what he wants. He is interested in no one but himself and his ego has helped waste the talent with which he was born. Thing is, we are the twats for hanging around always hoping that motherfucker will change his ways. [Edited 3/23/10 14:06pm] | |
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toy4him said: Tremolina said: I'm gonna go out on a limb and rebuke your post ok? But don't worry, not like a fam
You know istens, 'alleen een ezel stoot zichzelf twee keer aan dezelfde steen.' So either you are joking there that "its impossible the man thought this was gonna be it for the whole year" or you are remarkably naive and foolish still, after all these years, all these broken promises and all these unfulfilled 'xpectations' over some 'candy' or 'pfunk' costing you just a 'c-note'. Don't you remember how clearly they advertised, that year 2 of NPGMC would bring at least 4 new Prince cd's, including mentioning the titles of 4 new albums? How many of these albums materialised and how many details do you need to fall for it again? Really, if you still think that Prince's bad business practices are motivated by his 'artistic whims' or his likeness of 'surprises' or something like that, then you just don't see. Of course he is aware of all the complaints he gets. Of course he doesn't like it. Who else are his lines about 'haters on the internet' not getting anymore 'candy' directed at? And why else does he release a new tune, EVERY time he screws up 'something big' again? What do such reactions tell you? They tell me at least, clearly, that he definetely does notice, but also definetely doesn't want to listen to fans complaining. Yet that he also feels the need to react and even 'defend' himself against them, which illustrates his awareness of his own guilt in all this shit. His reactions however also tell that he is adamant, that his fans 'better learn the rules, if they want to play with him', no matter how crazy, or wrong these rules may be. Like true and loyal fams, not fans, they should expect nothing, yet support him unconditionally and without 'negativity'. Whether fans have been truly wronged or not. Whether they got all the stuff they paid for or not. Whether they find it too expensive, a rip off, a scam, a PR disaster or a customer service nightmare or whatever. Surely he would have done SOMETHING to improve on those issues if he would care about not having unhappy fans, wouldn't he? And surely he wouldn't just be writing indignant and belligerent words about it, basically telling fans to go to hell. But he got your money already, so what you gonna do now? It ain't no use sending them dozens of emails about it, obviously. And you may not even have a case when you complain or file suit. After all, the general terms of the agreement tell you quite clearly, that you cannot expect shit from lotusflow3r and that if you still do, but don't get what you expected, asked, hoped or wished for, that you are tough out of luck, because according to these terms you were promised NOTHING and they are not liable for anything you, hardest of the hardcore fans, may have dreamt up in your bootleg dreams. Before lotusflow3r his general terms weren't THAT far stretching. The current terms go so far often even that I seriously doubt (parts of) it could stand in court. What does that tell you? It tells me that he talked to his lawyers about the other years and that he wanted all liability for any shit he may pull again excluded. Anyway, legally, it therefore seems that the only chance left to force a change, is when fans file a class action law suit based on false or misleading advertising and or business fraud actions. I am not saying that would stand a good chance, but if it happens, it could build a lot of pressure on the other side, which who knows, then would finally lead to some grand revelation that you can't and shouldn't fuck with other people like Prince does. Not even with fans.
But if you ask me, fans are too sweet, too chicken, too cheap and don't care enough about this crap either, to be so bold and pay him back with a taste of his own medicine. However, in case a miracle happens and they decide to fight, they should at least seriously consider collectively sueing him. And if they are REALLY smart (but alas... most fans are emotionally controlled by prince's music and thus not really smart lol) they would stop joining his sites all together and sign a mass petititon explaining him in perfect princebonics why.
I am pretty sure that only then, Prince would really seriously consider changing his ways. Because the language of money is a language Prince speaks very well. He is a "businessman" after all. -- [Edited 3/23/10 11:43am] Now that would be interesting. I find it remarkable and incomprehensible that you'd advise anyone to sue Prince for this or anything else. Wonder if they'll take your advice? It would be fascinating for a court of law to decide whom owes what to whom IMHO. Well, we are talking about some 10 years of bad business practices and probably thousands of fans who figured they would have gotten something more tangible than a T-shirt, that may or may not have arrived, and a download of lotusflower you can now buy for 4$ in stores. Prince has many fans and many want him to change his ways, but like I explained he doesn't listen to that. A boycot and a lawsuit, now that's language he listens to. You may not like it, but if it weren't for his incredibly bad reputation, I wouldn't be saying it. | |
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Thanks for the update! I just nixed my CC info, to avoid an automatic charge. The funny thing is that if Prince turns around tomorrow, announces some shows, and says "sign up for my new site and pay $100 for a year"... everyone will be scrambling to plunk down their money all over again. It seems like this is some kind of a cycle! LOL | |
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Man it bugs me to still be reading this kinda stuff years after being disgruntled over the handling of "Crystal Ball". Ordering on a 1-800 number that i literally had to wait almost an hour to get a human.. Just to order the thing. Then months later after no sign..there it is on the shelves, much cheaper than $50. Another phonecall later.. I still had to wait 2 months to get mine. I was much younger then and didnt understand how BBB worked or anything like that. But i thought, what a shitty way to treat the people who supported you for so long.
I waited a bit afte the Lotusflow3r site went up to see if it would be worth it. In this day and age I wont pay $200 to see a show, even if he did play Ohio..unlikely. $77 + whatever inflated premium ticket cost .. not worth it anymore. And why pay $77 when I'm only guaranteed an mp3 of somthing I can buy in physical form at target for $12? that leaves $55 wasted. Now I'm old school. I like physical cds. When i found out the mp3 version doesn't even have "Crimson and Clover" I thought wow good decision. It's so sad that these days to enjoy his music I have to separate the idea of who Prince is from the music he makes. In my eyes he's become a bitter hypocritical person. He wants people to stop stealing from him (as in his music digitally) but he has no problem taking fans money and running with it. His songs all talk about "truth", but what truth was in his advertising and promoting of this site that didn't give what was understood. I can't help but see him as a very confused man. I guess now these days I have to be a fan in past tense. Those songs have been part of my life. But the recent stuff I cannot detach from the lies behind it. I guess I buy the cds hoping there will be something great there. But it's more like morbid fascination know, knowing there's no chance of reversal this time, and the guy I looked up to has gone down a path I just can't follow anymore. I know I'm getting off point but it saddens me. How on earth could someone have so many loyal supporters and then turn on the majority of them with contempt? I hope justice is served and you all get your money back. By the way is it just me that finds it hilarious that Target now has "Lotusflw3r" for $4.99? Guess even target couldn't convince everyone it was a masterpiece. | |
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I will not rejoin this or any other enterprise unless I know the content up-front and a good deal of it is pre-loaded.
To have to panic and run around just in case 'Lotusflow3r' may renew you automatically without so much as an email informing you the membership is nearly up is not my idea of fun. Just where is that galaxy of purple-funk? With just a little bit of effort it could have existed with ease. All anyone wanted was a few extra downloads for F-sake. A minor part of what was mentioned in that bloody press release. | |
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