I really admire the delivery of the content of what you have posted and the way you have dealt with your situation.

My personal thoughts, are that it sounds like an intellectual arrangement and that maybe, certain feelings are omitted. I may be wrong... I'm not either of you and ultimatly, you both know best for your lives. I do find myself struggling somewhere inside when reading certain parts of this post. One part being about animals and monogamy. Sure, not all animals have monogamous ways of relating - but using that as a way to justify things leaves me feeling a bit on edge and I'm not sure why.

I am all for things being in the open. I have a friend who is transvestite and is nearly a year into his first relationship with another transvestite - he wants to find a female lover, as he misses intimacy with women. He has talked this over with his partner and his partner is fine with this arrangement.

I think for me, there's something about underlying feelings and problem potential that turnes me off the idea of experiencing such ways of intimacy with people. And I suppose, because I've experienced betrayal, this leaves me backing away. Although, I know that betrayal and what you guys are doing is totally different. What I'm saying is that I think because I've experienced betrayal, I don't think I could ever trust anyone to experience such a way of relating with. Hence, I think I am struggling to accept what you have written, even though I like the way you delivered it and the way you have been so honest - very valuable qualities IMO.

Also, what is going through my mind is something to do with the freedom to move on when things aren't working out. So many people stay in relationships that don't work, believing in the 'one' concept of romantic ideology - and scare themselves into thinking that the 'one' that they have been relating with, was the only 'one' that they could ever have a relationship with, so either stay in an unhappy relationship, or leave thinking they've had their lot. So, I really respect that aspect of what you're saying, that you readily move to share intimacy with those that deeply move you.

I'm really feeling this on a deep level and I'm in a bit of personal conflict over this. At the end of the day, at any step of the way, I think the most important thing in life is to do what works at any stage. If it works, if it feels good, if it moves, push that way.

Good luck to you both man

Therapy said:

Thanks for that.

Yeah, Matt may have a different response, but here's what I have to say.

-We're not trying to justify, only to explain. One common comment that poly folks get is that anything other than monogamy is unnatural for humans. That isn't true. That's all. Whether or not something is "natural" isn't particularly relevant to whether or not it's what we want or if it works for us. If I could make a totally tight argument for why monogamy is itself unnatural for humans, I still wouldn't expect everybody to throw their hands in the air and start looking for additional partners! That's not the point.

-It is important not to "omit" feelings. Jealousy is real, and happens in poly relationships. In our culture, jealousy is a deal-breaker; love is against the rules if it makes somebody jealous. My thing is, why should jealousy have that much power? Why not give the power to love, and work through the jealousy?

What you've got exactly right is that intimacy is key, and honesty and communication are required for that.

Therapy said:

Thank you. Interesting stuff, eh? Orgnote me/us if you wanna discuss this in more detail in private.

tackam said:

Well...I've been skeptical about this lifestyle all along, as you know. It seems so experimental...but experiments are what young people are best at, and sometimes they produce miraculous results!

But in this case, I have to be honest...I do find it unnatural, and I expect that jealousy would be the norm, not the exception.

May you be the exception. Or at least deal with things well if it turns out that you are the rule.

What you've shared has interested me. My strongest emotional response has been one of fear I think, of the unknown. I admire so much that you are willing to work through that jealousy boundary. I truly take my hat off to you.

I really want to emphasise that I am putting my hands up and I don't mean to offend, I am attempting to understand. I have shared my exploration of my own responses with you before and trust that that way of doing things is ok, hence doing it again.

At the end of the day, I wouldn't be able to do it, you are really both enjoying yourselves and our lives are different paths, both respectable.

Again, I wish you both well

Therapy said:

Not offended in the least. I think it's fabulous. My thanks are sincere.

teller said:

Thank you, Teller. It might be nice if I could assure you of what my emotional response to all of my life events will be from here on out, but I can't; I'm just trying to live my life and do what makes sense to me and what feels like the best way to be happy.

Jealousy is a very interesting cultural and emotional phenomenon.

tackam said:

It is...and I don't have a clear handle on it myself.

And I am extremely proud of you for recognizing that what lays ahead for your own state is somewhat uncharted. That by itself speaks volumes about your maturity. It's really no different for us "normal" people, but it's more pronounced when you're doing something few have done before.

teller said:

I would say that it is unnatural for me as an individual, because I've always been unable to separate intimacy from monogamy. I've never once been interested in the idea of being intimate that way with more than one person. But whether my experience is "natural" or the product of upbringing, I'll never know.

Therapy said:

Therapy...I love you You're such a cute hippy therapist

Love is beautiful in all it's many forms. Good luck and best wishes

applekisses said:

Therapy said:

Hee hee...

Tackam, just when I didn't think I was crazy about you enough. You are my fucking hero.

Very well presented,, Tackam and Matt. Your abilty to be so open with information is commendable.


Good luck with everything.

Christine and Carrie's face while reading this thread

CarrieLee said:

CarrieLee said:

What? Just a simple declaration of love from a couple of org folks. . .whassabigdeal?

Tackam just don't hurt his heart with your Poly whatever shit...

I am shocked, and what an unlikely couple.. Nevertheless, congratulations.

tackam said:

Ok, I'm going to be honest and blunt, I hope I don't hurt any feelings here.

You ask what's the big deal? Welp, it has to be some kind of deal if you feel the need to share this with everyone here. I personally would keep this to myself and wouldn't feel the need to share it with prince geeks on a message board but hey that's me. So my guess is, if you can post this then you can take the heat...right? Ok...well frankly I find it very fucking bizarre!! Maybe it's the way I was brought up, I dunno...but I just don't find it natural to be married to someone and fuck around with (or "love") someone else at the same time. I just don't get it. And there WILL be jealousy, you're crazy if you don't think so!

I'm not knockin ya...I hope it works for you guys. Hey if that's your thing more power to you. But my guess is that it's not going to work out, and I could be wrong, but I'm sticking to that conclusion.

Like I said I hope I don't hurt any feelings here. We all have to respect one anothers opinions and I guess what I'm trying to say is don't get pissed at me cuz I don't agree with it! I'm just responding on a message board!!!

Shit! I totally thought this was a joke so I didn't bother entering this thread. Congrats you 2 on finding pleasure in each other and I have no problem wity your choices, as long as you are happy and nobody's getting hurt.

tackam said:

i was actually hoping that you could answer that question for us... it was a big enough deal for you to think that it warranted holding a press conference about it, where you answer questions that didn't need to be answered and had never been asked...

CarrieLee said:

Well I'm glad someone said it!

I agree, insofar as I haven't a fucking clue how such a relationship could really work. But, I wish them all the best anyway. Good luck with that etc.

Monogamy works for some. It works for many. But there's a degree of naturalness when you're able to share it with more people. As if marriage has always been the norm. Like some religions, it's faded a bit. 75 years ago, it would seem extremely strange for me to be 21, independent, single, and damn happy about it.

It's going to take a long time, just like the racial and homosexual cards. Most people fail to acknowledge the fact that we haven't been strictly monogamous since humankind's beginning.

Some of you are acting like they've had sex changes or something!

INSATIABLE said:

I'm not knocking them. I just don't understand. I wouldn't be comfortable with my significant other being in love with somebody else AND me. I'd be jealous and always wondering...if you can have that much trust in people then I applaud you...but we're all human and I just don't see it happening.

And I say it's much better to confront the issue of monogamy and how much of a struggle it is for some people rather than being a lying cheater.

You go!

well i, for one, applaud them. it takes a lot of balls to challenge the norm, and they are all adults and they are not hurting anyone. i don't understand why it is permissable for people to knock their relationship and try to deflate their happiness by casting unhappy predictions on the relationship.

they were brave to annouce it, and even braver to answer questions about it. they tried to help us understand it, and many people shat all over their relationship. would you do this to a gay couple? to a couple into leather? those are both out of the norm as well, but if a large roup of people demeaned those relationships and mocked them and predicted it would end in tragedy, people would be up in arms about it, and rightfully so.

if you are really that uncomfortable with the idea of them having this kind of relationship, don't destroy it, merely offer them congratualtions or say nothing at all.

i mean honestly...

there are a lot of you out there that should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves.

i don't think christian marriages are a great thing, do you see me shitting all over your christian marriage and demeaning it, and telling you "well, it'll never work freaks!"

have some freaking compassion, people.