jfenster said:

should the art be considered separate from the person?

Always.

Because if you really sit and pick apart people's real lives, more than likely everyone in your CD collection, mp3 playlist, the credits on the back of your Blu Ray cases: total scumbags.

And I know the human condition for whatever reason forces us to try and constantly rationalize and scramble from all sides of every perspective, "No, no, they're a good guy..." "No, no, that isn't the same because..." Nah. All flawed. All broken... so what?

WhisperingDandelions said:

The Prince thing is way creepier if people take off their fanboy goggles for ten seconds.... And I thought Mayte was much younger than 16 when they actually met. Sitting back, lusting away, counting the days until she's 18 like we used to count the days until Christmas as kids. Premeditated action is usually considered a little bit more sinister than one of passion in every other life circumstance... unless, you know, you wrote "Pink Cashmere". Hey now, exhibit B, because grooming just ain't real grooming until you break out the expensive gift exchange... wonder what he got in return.

But classifying Annie Hall as "unrelatable" is the most offensive thing written in this thread thus far, bar none... Have you no soul, sir?

And I'm still the only other to comment on Moses Farrow's blog, just for the record.

[Edited 3/13/20 6:05am]

Thank you! His perspective is as valid as any other Farrow whose made public statements about the situtation.

Annie Hall ... is a timeless gem. Although interestingly enough, WA says Husbands and Wives is the closest he has ever gotten to fulfilling his story vision from page to screen. Judy Davis knocked it out of the park in that film.

DiminutiveRocker said:

Thank you! His perspective is as valid as any other Farrow whose made public statements about the situtation.

If not more... I mean it's a very well-written blog, he states explicitly, he was in that prime age where boys can be hyper protective of their moms and her wishes, he states he watched Woody like a hawk that day, never letting him out of his sight. That age he would have perfect retention of his memories, as well as perfect memory of his emotions at the time... meanwhile Ronan was five-years old.... Do you all have concrete memories of observations when you were five?

Moreover him talking about Mia abusing her adopted minority children and always treating her white kids better... Ronan likes to invoke how Soon-Yi was his sister and he can't mediate a reality where his sister is married to his father... Okay, but then why remove yourself from Soon-Yi's life? I get being mad at dad, but, cutting off your sister? Forever? The entire family never speaking to her again? The fuck kinda family is that? She was barely college-aged.

And Ronan was very dismissive of Moses' take, "I stand with my sister." But dude, isn't that your brother? It sounds like his brother underwent his share of childhood trauma himself, is his pain not valid? Or like Moses alleges, does Ronan subscribe to the belief that some of Mia's kids mean more than others?

Ronan Farrow is the product of Mia Farrow (a woman scorned) and Frank Sinatra (a rapist, read Sinatra: A Life by Anthony Summers and Robin Swan).

7thday said:

DiminutiveRocker said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

The Prince thing is way creepier if people take off their fanboy goggles for ten seconds.... And I thought Mayte was much younger than 16 when they actually met. Sitting back, lusting away, counting the days until she's 18 like we used to count the days until Christmas as kids. Premeditated action is usually considered a little bit more sinister than one of passion in every other life circumstance... unless, you know, you wrote "Pink Cashmere". Hey now, exhibit B, because grooming just ain't real grooming until you break out the expensive gift exchange... wonder what he got in return.

But classifying Annie Hall as "unrelatable" is the most offensive thing written in this thread thus far, bar none... Have you no soul, sir?

And I'm still the only other to comment on Moses Farrow's blog, just for the record.

[Edited 3/13/20 6:05am]

Thank you! His perspective is as valid as any other Farrow whose made public statements about the situtation.

Annie Hall ... is a timeless gem. Although interestingly enough, WA says Husbands and Wives is the closest he has ever gotten to fulfilling his story vision from page to screen. Judy Davis knocked it out of the park in that film.

Moses Farrow's blog piece on the subject should really be the definitive word on the matter, as far as I'm concerned. It's brilliantly written, with compassion, reason, emotion (without letting that run riot) and sense... it comes from a place of reflection and peace and connects so many dots, making so much sense of so many things regarding Woody and also Mia's history.

And yes, let's not forget that this case against Woody was brought twice and thrown out twice.

I have nothing but sympathy for anyone who suffers any kind of abuse, but we cannot assume that just because someone claims they were abused, that it is automatically so.

Wow. I had no idea the believe Woody people were so diadactic. Or that it was this much of a thing. Guess there must be reddit threads.

2freaky4church1 said:

Not right, that is call out culture censorship. I want to make up my own mind and read it.

Exactly. A free democracy means that artworks are free (well, after one pays the gallery fee, if it's a big famous gallery, a little gallery can have great art to look at for no money) for all to look at AND DISCUSS. That's what most artists want. Some art, like Piss Christ, was hard to take, but that was the point. What I took away from Piss Christ, after looking at it and taking with other artists about it, was that I saw it as a statement of the sacrifice Jesus made for me just stated a much different way than the Bible. I literally said, "Yes, Christ was treated by the Pharases and the Roman Centurions as someoone to piss on, or even defecate on. The Roman Centurions took pleasure in punching Jesus a lot before he was whipped, had to carry the Cross, and be nailed and hung on it. The artist could have easily done Shit Christ, but that could have got him killed, ironically, by people who atteneded church each week. And maybe that's what that artist wanted me to process to in my mind and comments. Or maybe not. That the coolness or art to me. I would like to hold Bob Dylan down on the ground sometimes and make him tell me line for line what "Ballad in Plain D" is all about. But if some politician or judge who does not go to galleries at all passes a law that says I can't look at Piss Christ or listen to "Ballad in Plain D" that is wrong censorship. The only thing I would censor is an artwork that hurts a child, because they are innoncents. Animals, of course, too. Yet, I wore a black leather jacket for years, because it was "fashionable". Makes one think.

Back on topic 7thday, it ticks me off that the last two Woody Allen movies didn't even play in my little city, when Avengers:Endgame was on eighteen screens all fricking summer. Woody was doing a smart thing of releasing his movies in mid August, when most sane people wanted an intelligent film to see and talk about rather than something with so many "heroes" in it you had to watch some fanboy's 25 minute youtube video to even "understand" the "plot".

OK.

Late to the party but I need to add:

Babi Engelhardt, who claimed to hook up with Woody when she was 16 or 17 AND said that Mia Farrow herself later joined in on a threesome of them.

The woman is always to be believed in this day and age, correct?

So, why don't people believe her claims about Mia Farrow?

Why isn't the grand master Ronan exposing what Momma Mia did?

I just hate this whole thing where you MUST believe the worst about Woody because he hooked up with Soon Yi...and fucking hypocrites like Timothy Chalamat who disown their work with Woody although there was absolutely no new news from the time he accepted the job until the time he disowned it.

sro100 said:

OK.

Late to the party but I need to add:

Babi Engelhardt, who claimed to hook up with Woody when she was 16 or 17 AND said that Mia Farrow herself later joined in on a threesome of them.

The woman is always to be believed in this day and age, correct?

So, why don't people believe her claims about Mia Farrow?

Why isn't the grand master Ronan exposing what Momma Mia did?

I just hate this whole thing where you MUST believe the worst about Woody because he hooked up with Soon Yi...and fucking hypocrites like Timothy Chalamat who disown their work with Woody although there was absolutely no new news from the time he accepted the job until the time he disowned it.

And he had no problem doing Call Me By Your Name. A film where an adult has a summer affair with a (albeit precocious) 17 year old.

rdhull said:

sro100 said:

OK.

Late to the party but I need to add:

Babi Engelhardt, who claimed to hook up with Woody when she was 16 or 17 AND said that Mia Farrow herself later joined in on a threesome of them.

The woman is always to be believed in this day and age, correct?

So, why don't people believe her claims about Mia Farrow?

Why isn't the grand master Ronan exposing what Momma Mia did?

I just hate this whole thing where you MUST believe the worst about Woody because he hooked up with Soon Yi...and fucking hypocrites like Timothy Chalamat who disown their work with Woody although there was absolutely no new news from the time he accepted the job until the time he disowned it.

And he had no problem doing Call Me By Your Name. A film where an adult has a summer affair with a (albeit precocious) 17 year old.

"To the actors who have worked with my father and have voiced regret for doing so: You have rushed to join the chorus of condemnation based on a discredited accusation for fear of not being on the “right” side of a major social movement. But rather than accept the hysteria of Twitter mobs, mindlessly repeating a story examined and discredited 25 years ago, please consider what I have to say. After all, I was there – in the house, in the room – and I know both my father and mother and what each is capable of a whole lot better than you." - Moses Farrow

DiminutiveRocker said:

rdhull said:

And he had no problem doing Call Me By Your Name. A film where an adult has a summer affair with a (albeit precocious) 17 year old.

"To the actors who have worked with my father and have voiced regret for doing so: You have rushed to join the chorus of condemnation based on a discredited accusation for fear of not being on the “right” side of a major social movement. But rather than accept the hysteria of Twitter mobs, mindlessly repeating a story examined and discredited 25 years ago, please consider what I have to say. After all, I was there – in the house, in the room – and I know both my father and mother and what each is capable of a whole lot better than you." - Moses Farrow

Uh, you should send that to Timothy, not me.

rdhull said:

DiminutiveRocker said:

"To the actors who have worked with my father and have voiced regret for doing so: You have rushed to join the chorus of condemnation based on a discredited accusation for fear of not being on the “right” side of a major social movement. But rather than accept the hysteria of Twitter mobs, mindlessly repeating a story examined and discredited 25 years ago, please consider what I have to say. After all, I was there – in the house, in the room – and I know both my father and mother and what each is capable of a whole lot better than you." - Moses Farrow

Uh, you should send that to Timothy, not me.

Just illustrating your point


but... if you have his address, I will!

He should self publish then. I'd read it.

purplethunder3121 said:

He should self publish then. I'd read it.

He should just do what he does when his films incite controversy here and find a European publisher or distributor.

We could honestly use some reading material now... I was bummed it was only set to be around 400 pages.

WhisperingDandelions said:

Woody's not still in Spain shooting Rifkin's Festival, is he? I hope he's staying under lockdown right now. We need the Woodster, I'm still having withdrawls from that extra year off due to the fallout from A Rainy Day in New York.

Rifkin's Festival is already locked (was shot last summer).

DiminutiveRocker said:

rdhull said:

How can I watch that.

I think it had a limited release in Europe... not sure. I'd like to see it too.

Ace?

A friend of mine told me he ordered the DVD (Blu-ray?) from Europe (NB: He has a region-free player). And I'm told some airlines offer it as part of their in-flight viewing options.

[Edited 3/21/20 16:55pm]

rdhull said:

Ace said:

Obviously, I agree, rd!

2 great films of his that are rarely mentioned are Zelig and Broadway Danny Rose. Forrest Gump owes a LOT to Zelig and BDR is funny as shit. Mia is amazing in it.

DiminutiveRocker said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

The Prince thing is way creepier if people take off their fanboy goggles for ten seconds.... And I thought Mayte was much younger than 16 when they actually met. Sitting back, lusting away, counting the days until she's 18 like we used to count the days until Christmas as kids. Premeditated action is usually considered a little bit more sinister than one of passion in every other life circumstance... unless, you know, you wrote "Pink Cashmere". Hey now, exhibit B, because grooming just ain't real grooming until you break out the expensive gift exchange... wonder what he got in return.

But classifying Annie Hall as "unrelatable" is the most offensive thing written in this thread thus far, bar none... Have you no soul, sir?

And I'm still the only other to comment on Moses Farrow's blog, just for the record.

[Edited 3/13/20 6:05am]

Thank you! His perspective is as valid as any other Farrow whose made public statements about the situtation.

Annie Hall ... is a timeless gem. Although interestingly enough, WA says Husbands and Wives is the closest he has ever gotten to fulfilling his story vision from page to screen. Judy Davis knocked it out of the park in that film.

The other two he consistently mentions as being the closest to what he envisioned, when he was writing, are Match Point and The Purple Rose of Cairo.

[Edited 3/21/20 16:56pm]

WhisperingDandelions said:

Another Woman is his best film, bar none.

Okay, I just watched it for the first time in many years.

If you're not familiar with Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, he's a Jungian. And he's given interviews (at least) where he's said things that reflect the same themes as these snatches of dialogue:

HOPE

..And there was strange shadows.

(My life was) full of deceptions. And

these...these deceptions had become

so many - and so much a part of me now -

that I couldn't even tell who I really was.

And then, later:


PSYCHIATRIST

What is it that enrages you?

HOPE

Life.

PSYCHIATRIST

Life?

HOPE

The...the Universe... The cruelty and

the injustice. The suffering of humanity.

Illness. Ageing. Death.

PSYCHIATRIST

All very abstract. "Humanity"... Don't

worry about humanity all the time.

Get your own life in order.

Hold the phone! The book (already being published elsewhere) has just been published in America! :

https://www.nytimes.com/2...rcade.html

WoodyAllenPages Twitter going in with the excerpts:

https://twitter.com/Woody...1817635840

What's the rules here again, I can paste contents if I cite link or just links? NY Times is giving me the paywall shakedown.

Citation: https://pagesix.com/2020/...ew-memoir/

Woody Allen claims Mia Farrow was ‘unnaturally obsessed’ with Ronan Farrow in new memoir

Woody Allen sensationally paints Mia Farrow as a controlling and troubled mother who slept naked in bed with her “prized” son Ronan until he was 11, in his new memoir.

The Oscar-winning director goes into great detail about their ill-fated 13-year affair — and says that he still believes that Ronan, now an award-winning journalist, is his biological son, despite Farrow’s suggestion he could be the child of her ex-husband Frank Sinatra.

“I think he’s mine, though I’ll never really know,” he wrote in “Apropos of Nothing”, which was published on Monday. “She may have still been sleeping with Frank, as she hinted, and may have had any number of outside affairs, for all I know,” he added.

The “Annie Hall” auteur, now 84, claimed that Farrow, who has 11 living children, four of whom are biological and seven who are adopted, first told him she wanted to have his baby on one of their first dates, calling it a “red flag.”

Weeks later, while on a date at a Chinese restaurant, she suggested they marry, a suggestion Allen said he quickly brushed off — confessing in all their years together he never once slept the night at her home.

He accused her of being screwed up — and potentially molested. Allen described Mia’s family as “rife with extremely ominous behavior that swelled in the years I knew her.”

The star’s brother John Charles Villiers-Farrow was sentenced to 10 years in prison in 2013 for molesting boys. Allen writes that he heard a rumor “early on” that Mia’s brothers had been “aggressive” with the Farrow sisters and that “the Farrow brother who is now serving years in prison for child molestation has said that their father had molested him.”

Allen lashed out at Farrow’s parenting and obsession with adopting, claiming she treated orphans like “toys” — once sending back a Mexican infant from Texas for reasons only known to her.

He also claimed that Farrow also sent back a little boy with Spina Bifida who lived in her apartment for several weeks, because her son Fletcher found him annoying.

“If there were other kids she adopted and returned I have no idea — as I said, I lived on the other side of the park,” he wrote.

Even more damning, Allen alleged she liked “the saintly reputation, the admiring publicity, but she didn’t like raising the kids and didn’t really look after them.

She also frequently hit Soon-Yi, he claimed. Talking about Ronan, who was named Satchel at birth, Allen said Farrow was “unnaturally obsessed” with him “When Satchel was born, things took an even darker quantum leap. From his birth, Mia expropriated Satchel.

Allen wrote: “She took him into her bedroom, her bed, and insisted on breast-feeding him. She kept telling me she intended to do it for years, and that anthropological studies have shown positive results from tribes where breast-feeding goes on much longer than on the Upper West Side. Years later, two very professional and perceptive women who worked in Mia’s house, Sandy Boluch and Judy Hollister, the first as babysitter and the second as housekeeper, described numerous incidents. Sandy reports seeing Mia sometimes sleeping in the nude with Satchel (now Ronan) a number of times till he was eleven years old. I don’t know what the anthropologists would say about that, but I can imagine what the guys in the poolroom would say.”

Allen said he was first warned off from dating Farrow by Dory Previn, who said that Farrow had lured away her husband André Previn.

Years later, he said, Dory – who wrote a song about Farrow’s alleged betrayal called “Beware of Young Girls” — alerted him to a song she wrote called “Daddy in the attic” after Farrow accused him of molesting their young daughter Dylan.

“She told me Mia would sing it, and she was certain that’s what gave Mia the idea to locate a fake molestation accusation she would make in the attic.” Dylan and Mia have maintained that these allegations are truthful.

Allen writes at length about the battle over Dylan — and the fight to clear his name, claiming that Farrow had told him “I have something planned for you,” shortly after discovering he was sleeping with her adopted daughter Soon-Yi Previn.

https://pagesix.com/2020/...ew-memoir/

[Edited 3/24/20 2:21am]

[Edited 3/24/20 2:27am]

[Edited 3/24/20 2:35am]

[Edited 3/24/20 2:36am]

Apparently it's just eBook right now until April, which is upsetting because I'm going to need some time to douse all the pages down with isopropyl alcohol and/or disinfectant..... hm maybe it is finally the era and age to just eBook it.

okay he's kinddaaa telling on himself in this one, I don't know there Woodster. Everyone keep your eyes peeled for the slip:

Citation: https://pagesix.com/2020/...ach-other/

Woody Allen details relationship with Soon-Yi in new memoir: ‘Couldn’t keep our hands off each other’
By Sara Nathan March 23, 2020 | 12:54pm

A bitter Woody Allen blasts his ex-wife Mia Farrow for her “Ahab-like quest” to destroy him with sex abuse allegations and describes his romance with his current wife Soon-Yi Previn in graphic terms in his new memoir.

“At the very early stages of our new relationship, when lust reigns supreme … we couldn’t keep our hands off each other,” Allen writes of Previn in “Apropos of Nothing,” which came out Monday to little fanfare.

The book had originally been set to be put out by Hachette, but it was dropped after mass protests by employees, who were angry the company would publish Allen, who has been accused of sexually abusing Farrow’s daughter, Dylan.

In the book, which was put out by Arcade Publishing, the Oscar-winning director says he became embroiled in a romance with Previn in 1991, while he was still with her mother Mia Farrow, with whom he has four kids.

Allen said that he and Farrow were basically apart by the time he began dating her adopted daughter, who is 35 years younger than him.

He recalled the day Farrow learned of the affair after discovering erotic photographs of her 20-something daughter at Allen’s apartment.

“Of course I understand her shock, her dismay, her rage, everything,” he said. “It was the correct reaction.”

But he also expressed no regret.

“Sometimes, when the going got rough and I was maligned everywhere, I was asked if I had known the outcome, do I ever wish I never took up with Soon-Yi? I always answered I’d do it again in a heartbeat.”

He even shows how much affection he has for Previn, dedicating the book to her with the words: “For Soon-Yi, the best. I had her eating out of my hand and then I noticed my arm was missing.”

Allen was with Farrow for more than a decade, and recalled happy times with the “very, very beautiful” actress.

They’re feeling cooled, however, especially after the 1987 birth of their one biological children, Ronan Farrow.

Farrow has been outspoken about his father, whom he alleges sexually abused his sister Dylan, Allen’s adopted daughter.

Allen has long denied sexually abusing Dylan, and in the book, he speculated that the accusations arose from what he calls Farrow’s “Ahab-like quest” for revenge.

“I never laid a finger on Dylan, never did anything to her that could be even misconstrued as abusing her; it was a total fabrication from start to finish,” he wrote.

Describing a visit to Farrow’s Connecticut house in August 1992, when he allegedly molested Dylan, he acknowledged briefly placing his head on his then seven-year-old daughter’s lap.

“I certainly didn’t do anything improper to her. I was in a room full of people watching TV mid-afternoon,” he said.

Allen was never charged after two separate investigations in the 1990s.

Dylan has continued to speak out in recent years that she was abused.

Ellen Page and Greta Gerwig are among the actors who have said that they won’t work with Allen again, and his most recent movie, “A Rainy Day in New York”, never came out in the U.S.

Amazon, which was to release that movie and three others, ended its deal with Allen; Allen sued and an out-of-court settlement was reportedly reached.

Grand Central Publishing said it would release Allen’s book on April 7. But the news was met with outrage from Farrow, who shared the Pulitzer Prize with the New York Times for his New Yorker investigation into Harvey Weinstein.

He was furious to learn that Allen’s book was being published by the same parent company, Hachette Book Group that released his tome “Catch and Kill”.

As The Post reported, Hachette employees staged a walkout, prompting Hachette to scrap the book. The book has now been published by Arcade publishers.

Stephen King was among those questioning the decision as an infringement of free speech, writing on Twitter: “It’s who gets muzzled next that worries me.”

Allen wrote “When actual flak did arrive they thoughtfully reassessed their position” and “dumped the book like it was a hunk of Xenon 135.”

Arcade editor Jeannette Seaver said in a statement: “In this strange time, when truth is too often dismissed as ‘fake news,’ we as publishers prefer to give voice to a respected artist, rather than bow to those determined to silence him.”

https://pagesix.com/2020/03/23/wood...memoir-couldnt-keep-our-hands-off-each-other/

Oh man he's added a roast of the original publisher in this new version:

http://www.woodyallenpage...-and-more/

Allen has written a new postscript about Hachette. Here’s part of it:

“Hachette read the book and loved it and despite me being a toxic pariah and menace to society, they vowed to stand firm should things hit the fan. When actual flak did arrive they thoughtfully reassessed their position, concluding that perhaps courage was not the virtue it was cracked up to be and there was a lot to be said for cowering."

https://apnews.com/281015...2acce1aac7

[Edited 3/24/20 2:48am]

[Edited 3/24/20 2:48am]

[Edited 3/24/20 2:49am]

WhisperingDandelions said:

Apparently it's just eBook right now until April, which is upsetting because I'm going to need some time to douse all the pages down with isopropyl alcohol and/or disinfectant..... hm maybe it is finally the era and age to just eBook it.

It's available in hardcover, but Amazon's currently sold out of those. I got the Kindle version, for now.

WhisperingDandelions said:

Oh man he's added a roast of the original publisher in this new version:

http://www.woodyallenpage...-and-more/

Allen has written a new postscript about Hachette. Here’s part of it:

“Hachette read the book and loved it and despite me being a toxic pariah and menace to society, they vowed to stand firm should things hit the fan. When actual flak did arrive they thoughtfully reassessed their position, concluding that perhaps courage was not the virtue it was cracked up to be and there was a lot to be said for cowering."