alphastreet said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Another thing to consider is that some women, especially past a certain age, are afraid to be alone. A woman who is single and of a certain age is treated like a leper.

Marriage seems to be going out of style anyway, so maybe some of these societal expectations will disappear and make it easier for more people to accept being single as "okay".

Exactly and some men/potential partners take this for weakness

You better believe it, Alphastreet! I had one jerk tell me a while back that he just picks the most desperate women and hooks up with them....oh, and dude's married. Needless to say, I didn't bother with him long! I will never forget how cocky he sounded when he said those things.

Based on personal experience, it seems that the pool of single men evaporates the day after you graduate from college So, you have to choose between acting desperate or acting like you're too tough to be vulnerable/shrinking violet type.....ugh, None of the Above, Please!

Or just telling yourself over and over you won't settle for less and that you're allowed to be picky and choosy no matter who looks down on you for it, cause nobody's going to pick and choose your battles for you at the end of the day.

morningsong said:

paintedlady said:

IMHO Really good looking people lack personalities and tend to be assholes, a little ugliness always makes a person a bit humble and that humility is what leads to a compassionate heart.

Cocky guys generally know they got it going on, so they really do not go out of their way to be nice to a ladies because they feel they can get another lady easily.

The sad part is... nice people want to date "good looking" people and never look closely at character traits. So a nice girl will want the hot guy and not care about his character as long as he is hot and then she is shocked when he treats her badly, and vice versa.

I don't know. Too many average Joes can be complete and utter buttholes, and quite a few ugly from the inside out folks running around. I've known too many hard working gorgeous gracious people to generalize like that. Granted the world isn't lacking in pretty people with their butts turned up to be kiss. [Edited 7/6/14 13:49pm]

Yes, but remember... beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What I can call "fine" someone else may call ugly. I my experience folks who are nice and get hurt by another they choose to love is because they based their choice on what that partner looked like as opposed to his character traits.

Even if they are just "average looking" they may still be considered "hot" by the one they love. I also think a bad attitude makes you look ugly as well, but if someone is in love you can not tell that person they are dating someone who is not good for them since they are blinded by their own "love".

JustErin said:

paintedlady said:

They do if they are un-attractive.

This is also false.

I have seen many nice guys get passed over for assholes because they were not considered attractive, I have also seen nice guys get treated badly because they choose to date a lady who thinks she is above him because society considers her "hot" and she uses him for his resources only.

"Nice guy" gets hurt in this situation because "nice guy" focused on looks, and the same goes for nice women who choose men with bad character traits because they too are choosing those men based on their looks.

Do I lie? No. We are speaking to the point as to why nice people get hurt in relationships, and that is my answer and the problem as I see it.

Are there nice people who date other nice people, sure! Are there attractive people that are nice? Of course there are!

But..... we are not talking about successful relationships, but failed ones, and yes sadly I know ALL about that.

If a nice person gets hurt is usually because they dated a person who is of poor character and that usually happens because they choose looks over substance.

Then the question is... why do some men stay with "bad" women?

People don't seem to care about the fact there's probably just as many bad women. Psycopaths, sociopahts, and spoiled brats that does everything to control their environments are not just men. There's PLENTY of women that loves controlling men mentally, cause they've been practicing this art all their life. Just watch kids. Boys beat eachother up, but girls have a tendency to destroy eachother mentally on a WHOLE OTHER LEVEL. I myself had a girfriend who hit me once. I found out that she had history of her ex and her father hitting her in the past. To her it was unnatural to be with a man that didn't explode in violence. She said that she deserved it etc etc. BULLSHIT. Her father actually seemed like a nice man, but he wasn't able to set boundaries. Instead he exploded if she tested him too much. People are ticking bombs. And there's not just one sex responsible for it. We all have responsibility of helping eachother out of this nonsense. There's many people that has some issues, and there's a few huge ass holes. People with issues that are unstable, sometimes good, sometimes bad are actually far worse than plain dirtbags. Atleast you know where you have a dirtbag. You keep it outside, or in the trash can. Sometimes you can accept the "pure" dirtbac for what it is, cause you know where it goes. But unstable people are the most dangerous, cause they're often very nice, and don't really know how to get rid of their unstable behaviour.

Because women have been conditioned from childhood to accept mistreatment from guys. From the earliest years, we are taught, "He hit you? Oh sweetie, that means he likes you," or "he pulled your hair? My daughter, he likes you." We view mistreatment as a way to determine whether he really likes us or not. And our suffering defines the depth of our love for him. We are often reminded (in a Christian household), "Look how much Christ suffered for you! He loves you so much that he suffered so deeply for you." We begin to associate "suffering" with "love". We must love them to suffer so deeply for them. The more we suffer, the more we must love them, and so we stay, because we "love" so deeply. It isn't until we are much older and much wiser that we begin to learn that "love" does not mean "suffering" and that if he does love us, he would not mistreat us. By that time, we may be in too deep to do anything about it, financial dependence, kids, a comfortable lifestyle that we couldn't have without him, etc. And so we stay because we have become dependent and because we become afraid we can never anyone else at "that" age and because we don't want to "suffer" financially and lose the lifestyle we have become accustomed to.

For the sex, of course.

paintedlady said:

JustErin said:

paintedlady said: This is also false.

I have seen many nice guys get passed over for assholes because they were not considered attractive, I have also seen nice guys get treated badly because they choose to date a lady who thinks she is above him because society considers her "hot" and she uses him for his resources only.

"Nice guy" gets hurt in this situation because "nice guy" focused on looks, and the same goes for nice women who choose men with bad character traits because they too are choosing those men based on their looks.

Do I lie? No. We are speaking to the point as to why nice people get hurt in relationships, and that is my answer and the problem as I see it.

Are there nice people who date other nice people, sure! Are there attractive people that are nice? Of course there are!

But..... we are not talking about successful relationships, but failed ones, and yes sadly I know ALL about that.

If a nice person gets hurt is usually because they dated a person who is of poor character and that usually happens because they choose looks over substance.

Most "nice guys" are simply self proclaimed nice guys, and they are anything but. Nice is often just a codeword for wishy washy, meek, socially awkward, odd, boring, a pushover, etc. etc...

I've never seen a truly nice guy not win (for lack of a better word) when it comes to relationships and a good life in general.

JustErin said:

paintedlady said:

I have seen many nice guys get passed over for assholes because they were not considered attractive, I have also seen nice guys get treated badly because they choose to date a lady who thinks she is above him because society considers her "hot" and she uses him for his resources only.

"Nice guy" gets hurt in this situation because "nice guy" focused on looks, and the same goes for nice women who choose men with bad character traits because they too are choosing those men based on their looks.

Do I lie? No. We are speaking to the point as to why nice people get hurt in relationships, and that is my answer and the problem as I see it.

Are there nice people who date other nice people, sure! Are there attractive people that are nice? Of course there are!

But..... we are not talking about successful relationships, but failed ones, and yes sadly I know ALL about that.

If a nice person gets hurt is usually because they dated a person who is of poor character and that usually happens because they choose looks over substance.

Most "nice guys" are simply self proclaimed nice guys, and they are anything but. Nice is often just a codeword for wishy washy, meek, socially awkward, odd, boring, a pushover, etc. etc...

I've never seen a truly nice guy not win (for lack of a better word) when it comes to relationships and a good life in general.

There's a difference between good and weak. There's also a big difference between bad and tough. You don't have to be mean to be tough, and you don't have to be weak to appear good. Actually they have nothing in common. There's both bad and good tough guys that aren't a pushover, boring, socially awkward, weak etc.

I used to be a bit weak when I was younger because I didn't like confrontations, arguments and conflicts. But the fact is, that it makes everyone appear weak if they can't defend themselves or have healthy debates and discussions every now and then. Alot of these guys that tries to be too nice have a tendency to explode when they feel like they've been pushed over too many times for no reason.

Alot of women don't even know why they are testing their boyfriend. It often seems to me as if alot of girls are addicted to some sort of tension in their relationships, making them agressive or in a bad mood over nothing, because their man seems too one dimentional. THey hate that. They hate the rational and logical way of thinking that their man often seem to embrace, cause it doesn't seem real enough to them. Rational and emotional doesnt go that well together, and alot of women are emotional and needs their man to trigger their emotions in many ways. If he doesn't trigger enough of her emotions, she'll grow tired. Sometimes she'll either leave or try to find a way to make the relationship more exciting.

Alot of guys are forcing themselves to this over exaggerated nice guy (weak) approach, because they've been told so by their parents and at school. Men that knows what they want and act on it will always be alot more attractive than a pushover. It's societys fault making people think what they're doing is right.

prittypriss said:

Because women have been conditioned from childhood to accept mistreatment from guys. From the earliest years, we are taught, "He hit you? Oh sweetie, that means he likes you," or "he pulled your hair? My daughter, he likes you." We view mistreatment as a way to determine whether he really likes us or not. And our suffering defines the depth of our love for him. We are often reminded (in a Christian household), "Look how much Christ suffered for you! He loves you so much that he suffered so deeply for you." We begin to associate "suffering" with "love". We must love them to suffer so deeply for them. The more we suffer, the more we must love them, and so we stay, because we "love" so deeply. It isn't until we are much older and much wiser that we begin to learn that "love" does not mean "suffering" and that if he does love us, he would not mistreat us. By that time, we may be in too deep to do anything about it, financial dependence, kids, a comfortable lifestyle that we couldn't have without him, etc. And so we stay because we have become dependent and because we become afraid we can never anyone else at "that" age and because we don't want to "suffer" financially and lose the lifestyle we have become accustomed to.

Very good points. I would also throw in that there's a fear of feeling shame as well. Even though divorce is sky high in the U.S., I bet there are still places where divorce is considered a bad thing.

JustErin said:

paintedlady said:

I have seen many nice guys get passed over for assholes because they were not considered attractive, I have also seen nice guys get treated badly because they choose to date a lady who thinks she is above him because society considers her "hot" and she uses him for his resources only.

"Nice guy" gets hurt in this situation because "nice guy" focused on looks, and the same goes for nice women who choose men with bad character traits because they too are choosing those men based on their looks.

Do I lie? No. We are speaking to the point as to why nice people get hurt in relationships, and that is my answer and the problem as I see it.

Are there nice people who date other nice people, sure! Are there attractive people that are nice? Of course there are!

But..... we are not talking about successful relationships, but failed ones, and yes sadly I know ALL about that.

If a nice person gets hurt is usually because they dated a person who is of poor character and that usually happens because they choose looks over substance.

Most "nice guys" are simply self proclaimed nice guys, and they are anything but. Nice is often just a codeword for wishy washy, meek, socially awkward, odd, boring, a pushover, etc. etc...

I've never seen a truly nice guy not win (for lack of a better word) when it comes to relationships and a good life in general.

Exactly. Elliot Rodgers, anyone? *shudder*

Replica said:

Then the question is... why do some men stay with "bad" women?

People don't seem to care about the fact there's probably just as many bad women. Psycopaths, sociopahts, and spoiled brats that does everything to control their environments are not just men. There's PLENTY of women that loves controlling men mentally, cause they've been practicing this art all their life. Just watch kids. Boys beat eachother up, but girls have a tendency to destroy eachother mentally on a WHOLE OTHER LEVEL. I myself had a girfriend who hit me once. I found out that she had history of her ex and her father hitting her in the past. To her it was unnatural to be with a man that didn't explode in violence. She said that she deserved it etc etc. BULLSHIT. Her father actually seemed like a nice man, but he wasn't able to set boundaries. Instead he exploded if she tested him too much. People are ticking bombs. And there's not just one sex responsible for it. We all have responsibility of helping eachother out of this nonsense. There's many people that has some issues, and there's a few huge ass holes. People with issues that are unstable, sometimes good, sometimes bad are actually far worse than plain dirtbags. Atleast you know where you have a dirtbag. You keep it outside, or in the trash can. Sometimes you can accept the "pure" dirtbac for what it is, cause you know where it goes. But unstable people are the most dangerous, cause they're often very nice, and don't really know how to get rid of their unstable behaviour.

Should have started your own thread.

SeventeenDayze said:

Mens are bitches.

JustErin said:

paintedlady said:

I have seen many nice guys get passed over for assholes because they were not considered attractive, I have also seen nice guys get treated badly because they choose to date a lady who thinks she is above him because society considers her "hot" and she uses him for his resources only.

"Nice guy" gets hurt in this situation because "nice guy" focused on looks, and the same goes for nice women who choose men with bad character traits because they too are choosing those men based on their looks.

Do I lie? No. We are speaking to the point as to why nice people get hurt in relationships, and that is my answer and the problem as I see it.

Are there nice people who date other nice people, sure! Are there attractive people that are nice? Of course there are!

But..... we are not talking about successful relationships, but failed ones, and yes sadly I know ALL about that.

If a nice person gets hurt is usually because they dated a person who is of poor character and that usually happens because they choose looks over substance.

Most "nice guys" are simply self proclaimed nice guys, and they are anything but. Nice is often just a codeword for wishy washy, meek, socially awkward, odd, boring, a pushover, etc. etc...

I've never seen a truly nice guy not win (for lack of a better word) when it comes to relationships and a good life in general.

I agree 100%. Recently I met this dude who is very physically attractive (what is universally accepted as attractive; tall, excellent physical shape, nice skin etc), but what I really liked about him was that he was VERY confident, yet he was also humble, well mannered and very considerate. He didn't take himself too seriously and was very graceful when taking criticism whenever he made a mistake. He treated everyone with respect but was assertive when he had to be but never in an assholish kind of way. Unfortunately the guy was married, but he's the kind of guy that I would absolutely love to date.

DysregulatedToxicity said:

JustErin said:

Most "nice guys" are simply self proclaimed nice guys, and they are anything but. Nice is often just a codeword for wishy washy, meek, socially awkward, odd, boring, a pushover, etc. etc...

I've never seen a truly nice guy not win (for lack of a better word) when it comes to relationships and a good life in general.

I agree 100%. Recently I met this dude who is very physically attractive (what is universally accepted as attractive; tall, excellent physical shape, nice skin etc), but what I really liked about him was that he was VERY confident, yet he was also humble, well mannered and very considerate. He didn't take himself too seriously and was very graceful when taking criticism whenever he made a mistake. He treated everyone with respect but was assertive when he had to be but never in an assholish kind of way. Unfortunately the guy was married, but he's the kind of guy that I would absolutely love to date.

Thanks for sharing. It sucks that sometimes it seems like all the nice ones are taken!

Replica said:

I like this Maya Angelou quote:

“When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time.”
― Maya Angelou

Beautifulstarr123 said:

I like this Maya Angelou quote:

“When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time.”
― Maya Angelou

ah...there it is

Beautifulstarr123 said:

daingermouz2020 said:

Id say the same some guys tolerate abuse from some women. low self esteem and they dont think they can do any better,they have kids together,the Love them.they dont want to be alone or start over.

That's a big nightmare that I have but at this rate, I won't have to worry about that scenario.

The Good Guys win in the end...Like me

iaminparties said:

The Good Guys win in the end...Like me

I think you're right

JustErin said:

ScarletScandal said:

What I can't stand is "That nigga ain't shit!!" Yeah, but you had a baby to that ain't shit nigga. It took you a whole 9 months, plus the age of the baby to realize that? Foresight is clearly lacking.

I believe that many women do see the signs of who he is, but choose to ignore them.

Beautifulstarr123 said:

ScarletScandal said:

What I can't stand is "That nigga ain't shit!!" Yeah, but you had a baby to that ain't shit nigga. It took you a whole 9 months, plus the age of the baby to realize that? Foresight is clearly lacking.

I believe that many women do see the signs of who he is, but choose to ignore them.

Yeah, I've thought that, when people cuss out former partners. I want to say to them, "well what does it say about you that you chose that person?"

Next time I will.

Define 'thread killer'.

ConsciousContact said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

I believe that many women do see the signs of who he is, but choose to ignore them.

Yeah, I've thought that, when people cuss out former partners. I want to say to them, "well what does it say about you that you chose that person?"

Next time I will.

True.