PurpleJedi said:

tinaz said:

All this is very true! BUT, thats isnt what the original OP asked, and that isnt one of the reasons people were saying plastic surgery was dumb and for people with low self esteem...

MY point is EVERYONE has vain bones in their body... Its not right to judge or say negative things about them or try and analyze their descions to have the surgery unless you are 300 lbs, wear no make-up, never comb or stlye your hair, never whiten your teeth, never buy the "in style" fashion... etc etc etc

Do I laugh at the OVER done ones... sometimes I do, but I also feel bad for their body dismorphic syndrome and blame the stupid ass doctors who only care about making another dollar at the expense of these poor peoples bodies... They shouldnt be able to keep their liscense if they cant use their better judgements in dealing with someone who has such major issues...

the end!

[Edited 3/22/12 19:17pm]

Well, the title of the thread asks for our THOUGHTS on it.

Yeah, everyone has some "vanity" in the sense that (most of us) try out best to "look good".

But all things in moderation.

Whitening coffee-stained teeth for a healthy smile? Acceptable use of bleaching agent.

Whitening dark skin to look European? Excessive us of bleaching agent.

Stained teeth are unhealthy?

Im guessing you are using healthy as in happy...

PurpleJedi said:

tinaz said:

I dont find it to be different tho if you are changing your teeth just because they are crooked.. or you have an overbite... if I wanted a tummy tuck, thats still all me... No implant is needed, just a tighten... I really think it ALL comes down to vanity... Yes, some people go overboard, but we shouldnt judge and say that person has low self esteem.. Dressing in nice clothes, wearing make-up, curling hair, its all the same! VANITY!

Now, would I do it... Heck yes if I had the extra money...

The BIG difference is that there's no risk of DYING from braces.

Anytime you go under the knife, you risk not waking up from anesthesia.

Of course, the majority of plastic surgeries go through without a hitch...but IMO that's a risk not worth taking unless it's TRULY needed.

But that's just me. I'm fretting my increasingly thinning head of hair...and the thought of having to shave my head one day terrifies me...but I would rather wax from head-to-toe than go through "hair restoration" procedures...either the plugs or the grafts.

I agree with you PurpleJedi, I am scared of dying and therefore will NOT go under the knife unless I absolutely have to! And I AM vain, very vain! I do all the beauty rituals. But I won't go under the knife for nothin! Scary. I'm surprised at all the people who do without even a second thought.

lauralevesque said:

PurpleJedi said:

The BIG difference is that there's no risk of DYING from braces.

Anytime you go under the knife, you risk not waking up from anesthesia.

Of course, the majority of plastic surgeries go through without a hitch...but IMO that's a risk not worth taking unless it's TRULY needed.

But that's just me. I'm fretting my increasingly thinning head of hair...and the thought of having to shave my head one day terrifies me...but I would rather wax from head-to-toe than go through "hair restoration" procedures...either the plugs or the grafts.

I agree with you PurpleJedi, I am scared of dying and therefore will NOT go under the knife unless I absolutely have to! And I AM vain, very vain! I do all the beauty rituals. But I won't go under the knife for nothin! Scary. I'm surprised at all the people who do without even a second thought.

But thats YOUR fear... It should have no bearing on whether or not plastic surgery is or isnt wrong..

Its the same as flying, or parachuting, crazy to some, but those who do it arent afraid at all...

tinaz said:

lauralevesque said:

I agree with you PurpleJedi, I am scared of dying and therefore will NOT go under the knife unless I absolutely have to! And I AM vain, very vain! I do all the beauty rituals. But I won't go under the knife for nothin! Scary. I'm surprised at all the people who do without even a second thought.

But thats YOUR fear... It should have no bearing on whether or not plastic surgery is or isnt wrong..

Its the same as flying, or parachuting, crazy to some, but those who do it arent afraid at all...

oh right, I don't give two shits if YOU do it, I'm just saying that it's really an extreme thing to do just for bigger boobs or a thinner nose or whatever. Of course, for people with deformities, I understand why they would take the chance, I would too, in that case. I'm just saying for me, I would not do it unless it HAD to be done.

KingBAD said:

The best I've seen is Julie Chen. She's much better looking now than before her surgery.

tinaz said:

PurpleJedi said:

Well, the title of the thread asks for our THOUGHTS on it.

Yeah, everyone has some "vanity" in the sense that (most of us) try out best to "look good".

But all things in moderation.

Whitening coffee-stained teeth for a healthy smile? Acceptable use of bleaching agent.

Whitening dark skin to look European? Excessive us of bleaching agent.

Stained teeth are unhealthy?

Im guessing you are using healthy as in happy...

Isn't that what they say in toothpaste commercials?

I will tell you right now. I will have a lift in my late 50's or when needed to get rid of the turkey neck and sagging skin on my face. I don't care about wrinkles -can't stand sagging skin though.

If I had the money I would get the asymmetry of my face corrected a bit.

Well, I'm nearly 33 now and wouldn't be arsed anymore. But I could have seen myself going for it in my twenties.

The boobjobs / botox thing is completely redundant and has seldom enhanced the looks of the person. I can see why people would want nose jobs or their eyes done though. It's easy for those that do not have any obvious flaws on their faces to criticize. (Yes, I wrote "flaws".)

FIFTY BUCKS IS FIFTY BUCKS

tinaz said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Straightening sideways teeth is SO different than putting fake stuff on already beautiful teeth.

I agree!! But that wasnt what I asked... What if they are just plain crooked... Say like this guy..

[img:$uid]http://www.mynewsmile.com/cosmetic_dentists/photos/Frey/CrookedTeethBefore.jpg[/img:$uid]

Nothing wrong with his teeth from a medical stand point, but he got them straightened... Why??

Then, what about teeth whiteners... SOOOO not needed for any reason, yet millions of people use the whitening toothpastes, trays and even pay alot of money to have them done at the dentists...

Again, this is SO DIFFERENT than say someone like Hillary Duff who had really nice natural teeth and covered them with giant caps.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

HotGritz said:

Is it just me or do her teeth look better in the "before" pic?

In the after pic, they look chalky.

[img:$uid]http://hollywoodnose.com/page/CelebrityCosmeticDentistry/images/Miley-Cyrus-teeth-before-after-cosmetic-dentistry.jpg[/img:$uid]

I think Hillary Duff is a better example. She had beautiful teeth and opted for an old lady grill.

I though she had a gum trim.

HotGritz said:

There definitely has to be some body dysmorphia going on with many people who seek to alter their physical selves and do so in such drastic ways. Its one thing to improve slightly on what you already have e.g. lift some saggy tits or inject some fillers into your crow's feet but some of that other stuff is just.....strange.

[img:$uid]http://www.mydochub.com/images/meg-ryan-plastic-surgery-before-and-after.jpg[/img:$uid]

I though she looked just fine the way she was before. No she looks like that serial killer chick who murdered all those men after having sex witht hem. What was her name? They made a movie about it starring Selma Hyack (? too lazy to look it up).

Only if people are so severely deformed or super ugly it affects their everyday life to such a degree they can not cope in public, not because some bimbo wants bigger boobs or lips.

No one under 21 and the surgery can not be deceptive, like a 75 year old woman who has surgery and passes herself off as 35.

Surgery should only be for urgent reasons, and things like liposuction should only be performed in the most extreme circumstances.

Support oral surgery and tooth straightening, but not teeth bleaching as its harmful and fake (Want white teeth, brush them 2 or 3 times a day)

I have a friend (An American) who keeps going to Thailand for plastic surgery and it never lasts.

Cheek implants, lip implants, botox and crows feet removal are not important reasons, people worry about that stuff when we have famines, wars and religious conservatives running around.

I also think operations like boob impants, lip injections and butt surgery are completely unnecessary.

I have a real problem with black people like Beyonce, Diana Ross and others who bleach their skin to look white, have some pride in your skin colour for gods sake. I also notice certain celebrities of a particular religion love having a feature on their face reduced and made to look less pointy or hooked in an attempt to appear less like that religion's stereotype of that facial feature. (I will give you a clue, they are not Muslim or Buddhist)

[Edited 3/30/12 15:29pm]

Shyra said:

HotGritz said:

There definitely has to be some body dysmorphia going on with many people who seek to alter their physical selves and do so in such drastic ways. Its one thing to improve slightly on what you already have e.g. lift some saggy tits or inject some fillers into your crow's feet but some of that other stuff is just.....strange.

[img:$uid]http://www.mydochub.com/images/meg-ryan-plastic-surgery-before-and-after.jpg[/img:$uid]

I though she looked just fine the way she was before. No she looks like that serial killer chick who murdered all those men after having sex witht hem. What was her name? They made a movie about it starring Selma Hyack (? too lazy to look it up).

Monster starring Charlize Theron. Great film. Ur right she does kind of look like Aileen Wuornos. Damn why u got me thinking bout that bish. Actually i felt sorry for her. I think men abused her terribly and she just snapped!

ahhh---------------not good.

no, unless the surgery is done due to facial disfigurement. for vanity sake----"not good."

free2bfreeda said:

ahhh---------------not good.

no, unless the surgery is done due to facial disfigurement. for vanity sake----"not good."

Looks a bit like me, the whole teeth and lips thing going on with the glasses LMFAO!!!

I've never wanted to do it and only know one person who's ever done it, but I say to each his/her own.

it is a great thing. it has lead to many advancements used in reconstructive surgeries.

like many other advancements the things done out of vanity or greed or to out do the neighbors helps push technology to become more affordable for all.

if some over do it... so what? who is being harmed?

Adorecream said:

not because some bimbo wants bigger boobs or lips.

[editied]

that line struck me funny.

I don't care what other people do to their body. It's not my (or anyone else's) business.

I think my view is complicated by the fact that I am a perpetual minority.

In the USA, I'm a minority. In Thailand, I'm a minority. So 'normal' has never

been a look I could ever achieve, nor has it ever been something I could ever

hope to achieve. I will always look different.

But, I've been lucky because I'm cute. Not that I am hung up on that or anything,

but I've been aware that despite looking 'not normal', I am general pleasent to

look at.

But, it disturbs me when plastic surgery is being performed for a person to look

like something outside of their race. For example only 50% of Thai people have

doulbe eyelids (like westerners do). 50% of the epicanthic fold or "squinted eyes"

and nobody wants them. Everyone here wants rounded eyes. So they go and

spend money on doudble eyelid surgery.

Not a single soap opera in Asia (which are sadly extremely viewed) or sitcom

shows prominent roles for Asians who actually look Asian. Luk Kruengs (mixed

White/Asians) like myself are all you ever see in prominent roles. And the Luk

Kruengs who have Asian features, eventually get surgery to make them look

less Asian.

You can tune into any Thai show and you will not find a woman with her original

'Thai Nose', which is sort of a button nose with not much of a ridge---short 'cute'

noses is what I think of them. They all want prominent roman noses.

And lord have mercy, they all bleach their skin. Most of the afluent Thais I know

have been bleaching their skin for years so that they are my shade or sometimes

lighter. And, it is prevelent.

In the USA, unless you're in LA, Miami, or major metro areas, obvious boobjobs

and plastic surgery on women (or men) isn't really 'the norm'. Or at least, it's

relatively subtle, though not nearly as it is in the UK.

But, here in Asia, I have been in places were 70% of the women have been cosmetically

changed. It's utterly bizaar because they spend so much money to look no

better than they did before.

That being said, I think in most cases in the USA, people don't get plastic surgery to

look like super models or actors. I think in most cases, people just want to look

normal. They get the surgery so that less attention will be drawn to them.

For example. this girl I knew in high school we used to call 'beeker'. It was because

she had this enormous, unattractive hook nose. And everyone teased her relentlessly.

Then in the 11th grade, she showed up to the first day of school with a normal nose.

It wasn't a mutilated Jackson family nose like what Janet or MJ (or good god, Latoya)

had, either. It was a normal nose. She didn't look pretty or glamorous or sexy

after the new nose. She simply looked normal. And for her, that was a price she

was obviously willing to pay. How many people wouldn't want to just be 'normal'?

(yes, I know I know--what is normal, right? But, if you don't have to be a dwarf,

or someone with a deformity, it's an easy position to take).

So, I'm all for plastic surgery because I feel it can do more good than bad.

But, I question doctors who offer plastic surgery so a person can change their

ethnic features--it just unsettles me.

Adorecream said:

Support oral surgery and tooth straightening, but not teeth bleaching as its harmful and fake (Want white teeth, brush them 2 or 3 times a day)

I brush daily and diligently, for as long as I can remember, and my teeth are still yellowish. I buy whitening tootpaste of every type. Still no white.

I have refrained from going to get them bleached because; a) it's expensive, and b) I haven't had a cavity since I was about 10 years old, and I fear weakening whatever super-enamel is protecting them.

What about whitening strips? Are they harmful?

imago said:

I think my view is complicated by the fact that I am a perpetual minority.

In the USA, I'm a minority. In Thailand, I'm a minority. So 'normal' has never

been a look I could ever achieve, nor has it ever been something I could ever

hope to achieve. I will always look different.

But, I've been lucky because I'm cute. Not that I am hung up on that or anything,

but I've been aware that despite looking 'not normal', I am general pleasent to

look at.

But, it disturbs me when plastic surgery is being performed for a person to look

like something outside of their race. For example only 50% of Thai people have

doulbe eyelids (like westerners do). 50% of the epicanthic fold or "squinted eyes"

and nobody wants them. Everyone here wants rounded eyes. So they go and

spend money on doudble eyelid surgery.

Not a single soap opera in Asia (which are sadly extremely viewed) or sitcom

shows prominent roles for Asians who actually look Asian. Luk Kruengs (mixed

White/Asians) like myself are all you ever see in prominent roles. And the Luk

Kruengs who have Asian features, eventually get surgery to make them look

less Asian.

You can tune into any Thai show and you will not find a woman with her original

'Thai Nose', which is sort of a button nose with not much of a ridge---short 'cute'

noses is what I think of them. They all want prominent roman noses.

And lord have mercy, they all bleach their skin. Most of the afluent Thais I know

have been bleaching their skin for years so that they are my shade or sometimes

lighter. And, it is prevelent.

In the USA, unless you're in LA, Miami, or major metro areas, obvious boobjobs

and plastic surgery on women (or men) isn't really 'the norm'. Or at least, it's

relatively subtle, though not nearly as it is in the UK.

But, here in Asia, I have been in places were 70% of the women have been cosmetically

changed. It's utterly bizaar because they spend so much money to look no

better than they did before.

That being said, I think in most cases in the USA, people don't get plastic surgery to

look like super models or actors. I think in most cases, people just want to look

normal. They get the surgery so that less attention will be drawn to them.

For example. this girl I knew in high school we used to call 'beeker'. It was because

she had this enormous, unattractive hook nose. And everyone teased her relentlessly.

Then in the 11th grade, she showed up to the first day of school with a normal nose.

It wasn't a mutilated Jackson family nose like what Janet or MJ (or good god, Latoya)

had, either. It was a normal nose. She didn't look pretty or glamorous or sexy

after the new nose. She simply looked normal. And for her, that was a price she

was obviously willing to pay. How many people wouldn't want to just be 'normal'?

(yes, I know I know--what is normal, right? But, if you don't have to be a dwarf,

or someone with a deformity, it's an easy position to take).

So, I'm all for plastic surgery because I feel it can do more good than bad.

But, I question doctors who offer plastic surgery so a person can change their

ethnic features--it just unsettles me.

Well said Dan. I agree with you 100%.

Let me share this with you; when I was maybe 12 years old, I was one of a handful of hispanic kids in my (private) school. Everyone else was white (handful of black kids as well).

There was a point in time where I wished I could have blue eyes, blond hair, and white skin so that I could be "normal". It's a complicated self-identity issue that I have thankfully grown out of...BUT unfortunately there seem to be an abundance of adults who perhaps never outgrew this. Or perhaps it hit them later in life.

Europeans at this point in time in our history are the dominant race. They control world finance, politics, etc. Because white people with light skin, roman noses and oval eyes control everything, those features are seen as desirable. For example; facial hair. Mesoamericans have little to no facial hair. What little did grow in was considered undesirable and shaven. But when Cortez conquered the Aztecs and destroyed Tenochtitlan, suddenly these bearded men were the epitome of power. Suddenly Mesoamerican men craved facial hair to look "Ladino" (part European) since being "indian" was a shameful thing. To this day (similar to what you described) you watch any telenovela and all you see are white/blond/blue eyed characters. I cringe when I see my mom watching those Mexican telenovelas, and the only Mesoamerican characters play the housekeepers and stable hands.

Is it Singapore that forbids "foreign" (white) models in public advertising? I say good for them.

PurpleJedi said:

imago said:

I think my view is complicated by the fact that I am a perpetual minority.

In the USA, I'm a minority. In Thailand, I'm a minority. So 'normal' has never

been a look I could ever achieve, nor has it ever been something I could ever

hope to achieve. I will always look different.

But, I've been lucky because I'm cute. Not that I am hung up on that or anything,

but I've been aware that despite looking 'not normal', I am general pleasent to

look at.

But, it disturbs me when plastic surgery is being performed for a person to look

like something outside of their race. For example only 50% of Thai people have

doulbe eyelids (like westerners do). 50% of the epicanthic fold or "squinted eyes"

and nobody wants them. Everyone here wants rounded eyes. So they go and

spend money on doudble eyelid surgery.

Not a single soap opera in Asia (which are sadly extremely viewed) or sitcom

shows prominent roles for Asians who actually look Asian. Luk Kruengs (mixed

White/Asians) like myself are all you ever see in prominent roles. And the Luk

Kruengs who have Asian features, eventually get surgery to make them look

less Asian.

You can tune into any Thai show and you will not find a woman with her original

'Thai Nose', which is sort of a button nose with not much of a ridge---short 'cute'

noses is what I think of them. They all want prominent roman noses.

And lord have mercy, they all bleach their skin. Most of the afluent Thais I know

have been bleaching their skin for years so that they are my shade or sometimes

lighter. And, it is prevelent.

In the USA, unless you're in LA, Miami, or major metro areas, obvious boobjobs

and plastic surgery on women (or men) isn't really 'the norm'. Or at least, it's

relatively subtle, though not nearly as it is in the UK.

But, here in Asia, I have been in places were 70% of the women have been cosmetically

changed. It's utterly bizaar because they spend so much money to look no

better than they did before.

That being said, I think in most cases in the USA, people don't get plastic surgery to

look like super models or actors. I think in most cases, people just want to look

normal. They get the surgery so that less attention will be drawn to them.

For example. this girl I knew in high school we used to call 'beeker'. It was because

she had this enormous, unattractive hook nose. And everyone teased her relentlessly.

Then in the 11th grade, she showed up to the first day of school with a normal nose.

It wasn't a mutilated Jackson family nose like what Janet or MJ (or good god, Latoya)

had, either. It was a normal nose. She didn't look pretty or glamorous or sexy

after the new nose. She simply looked normal. And for her, that was a price she

was obviously willing to pay. How many people wouldn't want to just be 'normal'?

(yes, I know I know--what is normal, right? But, if you don't have to be a dwarf,

or someone with a deformity, it's an easy position to take).

So, I'm all for plastic surgery because I feel it can do more good than bad.

But, I question doctors who offer plastic surgery so a person can change their

ethnic features--it just unsettles me.

Well said Dan. I agree with you 100%.

Let me share this with you; when I was maybe 12 years old, I was one of a handful of hispanic kids in my (private) school. Everyone else was white (handful of black kids as well).

There was a point in time where I wished I could have blue eyes, blond hair, and white skin so that I could be "normal". It's a complicated self-identity issue that I have thankfully grown out of...BUT unfortunately there seem to be an abundance of adults who perhaps never outgrew this. Or perhaps it hit them later in life.

Europeans at this point in time in our history are the dominant race. They control world finance, politics, etc. Because white people with light skin, roman noses and oval eyes control everything, those features are seen as desirable. For example; facial hair. Mesoamericans have little to no facial hair. What little did grow in was considered undesirable and shaven. But when Cortez conquered the Aztecs and destroyed Tenochtitlan, suddenly these bearded men were the epitome of power. Suddenly Mesoamerican men craved facial hair to look "Ladino" (part European) since being "indian" was a shameful thing. To this day (similar to what you described) you watch any telenovela and all you see are white/blond/blue eyed characters. I cringe when I see my mom watching those Mexican telenovelas, and the only Mesoamerican characters play the housekeepers and stable hands.

Is it Singapore that forbids "foreign" (white) models in public advertising? I say good for them.

Soooo... Since I live in a mostly "white" town, according to your statements, I should ONLY see white people on commercials...And that shouldnt be labeled racist in ANY WAY.... Is this really what you are trying to say??

Dont get me wrong.. I completely understand your earlier paragraphs... But this one I bolded... Im giving the side eye..

.

[Edited 3/31/12 17:51pm]

[Edited 3/31/12 17:52pm]

tinaz said:

PurpleJedi said:

Well said Dan. I agree with you 100%.

Let me share this with you; when I was maybe 12 years old, I was one of a handful of hispanic kids in my (private) school. Everyone else was white (handful of black kids as well).

There was a point in time where I wished I could have blue eyes, blond hair, and white skin so that I could be "normal". It's a complicated self-identity issue that I have thankfully grown out of...BUT unfortunately there seem to be an abundance of adults who perhaps never outgrew this. Or perhaps it hit them later in life.

Europeans at this point in time in our history are the dominant race. They control world finance, politics, etc. Because white people with light skin, roman noses and oval eyes control everything, those features are seen as desirable. For example; facial hair. Mesoamericans have little to no facial hair. What little did grow in was considered undesirable and shaven. But when Cortez conquered the Aztecs and destroyed Tenochtitlan, suddenly these bearded men were the epitome of power. Suddenly Mesoamerican men craved facial hair to look "Ladino" (part European) since being "indian" was a shameful thing. To this day (similar to what you described) you watch any telenovela and all you see are white/blond/blue eyed characters. I cringe when I see my mom watching those Mexican telenovelas, and the only Mesoamerican characters play the housekeepers and stable hands.

Is it Singapore that forbids "foreign" (white) models in public advertising? I say good for them.

Soooo... Since I live in a mostly "white" town, according to your statements, I should ONLY see white people on commercials...And that shouldnt be labeled racist in ANY WAY.... Is this really what you are trying to say??

Dont get me wrong.. I completely understand your earlier paragraphs... But this one I bolded... Im giving the side eye..

No Tina...you have to take that comment in the context of what Dan and I described at great length.

Singapore (I think...feel free to google it yourself) does not want to glamorize physical ideals that do not represent the general population. Hopefully then they will avoid having people desecrate their bodies in the pursuit of foreign physical ideals.

Let me take what you say and give you a proper example;

Fifty years from now China has eclipsed the USA and E.U. as the world's most powerful, wealthy, and influential nation. Chinese replaces English as the universal language (same way as English replaced French and French replaced Latin). Suddenly American kids are singing Mandarin pop tunes and Runza starts serving Peking duck filled fritters.

In this alternate future, you drive into downtown Lincoln and see nothing but Chinese models advertising everything from Coke, to Levi's, to General Tsao's KFC chicken. Your grandkids begin to dye their hair jet black and straighten it...but worse...they begin to surgically alter their faces to appear Asian. A population of blue-eyed, blond-haired kids learns to loathe their appearance and strive to look like the "better" Chinese.

When in that instance, the governing body of the great state of Nebraska prohibits Asian models (or at least limits it) then you would say "good".

Here in NY it doesn't work because we're multi-ethnic anyway!

Death creeps up regardless. In my world I live by the motto, "Eat well, still die."

PurpleJedi said:

imago said:

I think my view is complicated by the fact that I am a perpetual minority.

In the USA, I'm a minority. In Thailand, I'm a minority. So 'normal' has never

been a look I could ever achieve, nor has it ever been something I could ever

hope to achieve. I will always look different.

But, I've been lucky because I'm cute. Not that I am hung up on that or anything,

but I've been aware that despite looking 'not normal', I am general pleasent to

look at.

But, it disturbs me when plastic surgery is being performed for a person to look

like something outside of their race. For example only 50% of Thai people have

doulbe eyelids (like westerners do). 50% of the epicanthic fold or "squinted eyes"

and nobody wants them. Everyone here wants rounded eyes. So they go and

spend money on doudble eyelid surgery.

Not a single soap opera in Asia (which are sadly extremely viewed) or sitcom

shows prominent roles for Asians who actually look Asian. Luk Kruengs (mixed

White/Asians) like myself are all you ever see in prominent roles. And the Luk

Kruengs who have Asian features, eventually get surgery to make them look

less Asian.

You can tune into any Thai show and you will not find a woman with her original

'Thai Nose', which is sort of a button nose with not much of a ridge---short 'cute'

noses is what I think of them. They all want prominent roman noses.

And lord have mercy, they all bleach their skin. Most of the afluent Thais I know

have been bleaching their skin for years so that they are my shade or sometimes

lighter. And, it is prevelent.

In the USA, unless you're in LA, Miami, or major metro areas, obvious boobjobs

and plastic surgery on women (or men) isn't really 'the norm'. Or at least, it's

relatively subtle, though not nearly as it is in the UK.

But, here in Asia, I have been in places were 70% of the women have been cosmetically

changed. It's utterly bizaar because they spend so much money to look no

better than they did before.

That being said, I think in most cases in the USA, people don't get plastic surgery to

look like super models or actors. I think in most cases, people just want to look

normal. They get the surgery so that less attention will be drawn to them.

For example. this girl I knew in high school we used to call 'beeker'. It was because

she had this enormous, unattractive hook nose. And everyone teased her relentlessly.

Then in the 11th grade, she showed up to the first day of school with a normal nose.

It wasn't a mutilated Jackson family nose like what Janet or MJ (or good god, Latoya)

had, either. It was a normal nose. She didn't look pretty or glamorous or sexy

after the new nose. She simply looked normal. And for her, that was a price she

was obviously willing to pay. How many people wouldn't want to just be 'normal'?

(yes, I know I know--what is normal, right? But, if you don't have to be a dwarf,

or someone with a deformity, it's an easy position to take).

So, I'm all for plastic surgery because I feel it can do more good than bad.

But, I question doctors who offer plastic surgery so a person can change their

ethnic features--it just unsettles me.

Well said Dan. I agree with you 100%.

Let me share this with you; when I was maybe 12 years old, I was one of a handful of hispanic kids in my (private) school. Everyone else was white (handful of black kids as well).

There was a point in time where I wished I could have blue eyes, blond hair, and white skin so that I could be "normal". It's a complicated self-identity issue that I have thankfully grown out of...BUT unfortunately there seem to be an abundance of adults who perhaps never outgrew this. Or perhaps it hit them later in life.

Europeans at this point in time in our history are the dominant race. They control world finance, politics, etc. Because white people with light skin, roman noses and oval eyes control everything, those features are seen as desirable. For example; facial hair. Mesoamericans have little to no facial hair. What little did grow in was considered undesirable and shaven. But when Cortez conquered the Aztecs and destroyed Tenochtitlan, suddenly these bearded men were the epitome of power. Suddenly Mesoamerican men craved facial hair to look "Ladino" (part European) since being "indian" was a shameful thing. To this day (similar to what you described) you watch any telenovela and all you see are white/blond/blue eyed characters. I cringe when I see my mom watching those Mexican telenovelas, and the only Mesoamerican characters play the housekeepers and stable hands.

Is it Singapore that forbids "foreign" (white) models in public advertising? I say good for them.

OMG, the ALL the badguys in Thai sticoms and soap operas are dark skinned "thai" looking. ALL of them. You will never find a bad guy in Thai TV that is light skinned unless it's a 'diva' who all the women hate but still want to look like.

The general rule of thumb is the darker the skin, the more likely they will be a badguy or 'comic releif'.

It's the same with homosexual roles in Thailand. There are gay and transgender people on just about EVERY show in Thailand, and they are often loved---but because they are camp little clowns. They're never portrayed as multi-dimensional. The difference is that the gay community has started to demand more serious roles, while the greater Thai population has not awoken to its racial self-prejuduce.

As far as the Singaporian banning 'whitenned' models and actors thing, I had no idea. But, the Singaporians in general are the only Asians I've seen that don't seem to have the same level of hangups about light skin. I've seen alot of tan Singaporian women who seem very comfortable with having caramel skin---this is undheard of in Thailand and other Asian countries. I have heard many times, "She's pretty, but she's black (black is their word for dark skinned anything)". "He's handsome, but I can't date him because he's too black."

I remember once I had a Uni student do a presentation that was well done with regards to her business, but I wasn't aware of the product. She called her products 'vitamins' and all the students knew what the product was. I finally said, "are these vitamins famous everywhere?" to which she replied, "yes....the stop the production of mele...mele... melenin in your body so your skin can look beautiful."

I was dumbfounded by the remark.

She went on further to display her products to the class room (a hilairous sales pitch), and then asked me if i would like a free bottle, which to the entire classe's dismay, I responded by saying, "no thanks. I'm proud of the skin I wear, and you folks should be too. It's the skin color you're going to give your children--do you want them consuming pills to get lighter skin?"

It was a pointless thing for me to say though, because the students fundementally dissagreed with the idea that you should be proud of your skin color if it is indeed dark---if it's dark, according to them, there are 'solutions' you can easily imploy to 'fix' this problem. The racism here is so pervasive that they simply can't see what the big deal of pointing it out is. It would be like telling Americans to stop circumcising--I'm convinced 90% of parents who mutilate their children's penises are doing it for cosmetic reasons. And truly informed person wouldn't be using the silly excuse that it's more hygenic. (I'm circumcized and love having a cut penis by the way. I thought I'd share that with you, my love ).

tinaz said:

PurpleJedi said:

Well said Dan. I agree with you 100%.

Let me share this with you; when I was maybe 12 years old, I was one of a handful of hispanic kids in my (private) school. Everyone else was white (handful of black kids as well).

There was a point in time where I wished I could have blue eyes, blond hair, and white skin so that I could be "normal". It's a complicated self-identity issue that I have thankfully grown out of...BUT unfortunately there seem to be an abundance of adults who perhaps never outgrew this. Or perhaps it hit them later in life.

Europeans at this point in time in our history are the dominant race. They control world finance, politics, etc. Because white people with light skin, roman noses and oval eyes control everything, those features are seen as desirable. For example; facial hair. Mesoamericans have little to no facial hair. What little did grow in was considered undesirable and shaven. But when Cortez conquered the Aztecs and destroyed Tenochtitlan, suddenly these bearded men were the epitome of power. Suddenly Mesoamerican men craved facial hair to look "Ladino" (part European) since being "indian" was a shameful thing. To this day (similar to what you described) you watch any telenovela and all you see are white/blond/blue eyed characters. I cringe when I see my mom watching those Mexican telenovelas, and the only Mesoamerican characters play the housekeepers and stable hands.

Is it Singapore that forbids "foreign" (white) models in public advertising? I say good for them.

Soooo... Since I live in a mostly "white" town, according to your statements, I should ONLY see white people on commercials...And that shouldnt be labeled racist in ANY WAY.... Is this really what you are trying to say??

Dont get me wrong.. I completely understand your earlier paragraphs... But this one I bolded... Im giving the side eye..

.

[Edited 3/31/12 17:51pm]

[Edited 3/31/12 17:52pm]

I think you have to see it from within the context of which his statements were made and the reality of what is going on.

I guess the only hypothetical I can give you is let's pretend in the USA, you comprise 80% of the population or more (I believe the figure has droped to 65-70 percent now).

And every time you turn on the television, everytime you see someone who looks like you, that person is a thug or a badguy or sometimes an evil person. That person is never allowed on TV to fall in love, to have a wide range of emotions, or to be considered 'normal'.

Everytime you see anybody in fact that looks like someone in your family, they're servants or comic relief as well. But, never the hero...never the belle who gets the man. And these messages are broadcast constantly from the day of your birth until you become a woman. They talk about them in school, at the salon, between friends. The girls croon over the men in the shows--none of them looking anything like men you know---and all the girls want to look like the women in the shows who look nothing like you.

Now, you may be lucky and have parents who tell you day after day (and this is what is requried), that you're beautiful the way you are, but chances are many people will have parents who also buy into the ideals on TV (afterall, if mom and dad are watching the same shows, they will have some effect on them too).

But, let's go one step further. Let's say these beauty standards are not only non-representative of who you are, but that obtaining them is often dangerous and expensive. But the pressure is such that women think they will not find a life partner or get a good job (which really is the case in such places), so they more often then not opt for these surgeries, because they want to feel 'normal' when 'normal' is a standard that doesn't even represent them. You can still see it to some extent in America, with African American women who feel pressured to not go 'natural' with their afros at the work place due to social pressures. Operah won't even go natural, and if anyone can send a strong message, it's her.

What Singapore has done is extreme, but I do know it's working to some extent.

stay away from the light!

help my face is melting, whoa is me. ackkk, my ruby slippers. damn you glenda.