Love and security should always be placed above sex. I think what a person really wants is someone who is tolerable to them and dependable. When someone becomes so dependable to you, meaning their love for you is always there and they would never shit on you. You are a treasure to them that they look over time after time... and I think when your insecurity can accept this (has reason to accept this) you can accept a lot of other things as well... perhaps even a great deal of play on their part. I personally have an aversion to thinking about other men while having deep feelings for one. I certainly can't say I haven't experienced it though... but in my experience, it starts in the absolving of the former failed relationship... which is a bad omen and will often be taken that way... but who is to say how everyone should feel about sex?

My point is that a faithful relationship without much love and security is just as likely to fail. That has been my experience. I haven't had to deal with too many infidelity issues.

Y'know what pisses me off? When a public official or celebrity, i.e a male one, cheats, people seem more willing to forgive them. When a woman public official or celebrity does it, she's automatically a whore.

I seriously hate double standards.

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

Y'know what pisses me off? When a public official or celebrity, i.e a male one, cheats, people seem more willing to forgive them. When a woman public official or celebrity does it, she's automatically a whore.

I seriously hate double standards.

I guess because men are more likely to cheat. Which is why when a relationship falls apart due to infidelity, it's almost always assumed that "he" is to blame.

PurpleJedi said:

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

Y'know what pisses me off? When a public official or celebrity, i.e a male one, cheats, people seem more willing to forgive them. When a woman public official or celebrity does it, she's automatically a whore.

I seriously hate double standards.

I guess because men are more likely to cheat. Which is why when a relationship falls apart due to infidelity, it's almost always assumed that "he" is to blame.

Are men really more likely to cheat or more likely to get caught?

I too agree that the double standard is wrong. It appears that our society is still patriarchal and we have accepted, maybe even encouraged, men to behave badly. Actually, I think it will take a female public official getting caught cheating to dispell this myth about men in power. I swear...Weiner will be just like that ex-NY governor, he'll be back bigger than ever.

PurpleJedi said:

PunkMistress said:

That's actually not surprising at all; being queer makes you more likely to be sexually "open." It says so in your original post! Strict monogamy as a the "relationship ideal" has always been questioned and challenged by members of the gay community.

What are my friends "in a relationship" for? Because they love each other, like their life together and care for each other like a married couple? She has physical disabilities and he is an excellent caregiver to her. I am not at all suggesting that they are married because of her medical condition, just trying to illustrate that they are there for each other in the ways that married people should be. He's in a band and she's at all his performances. I assume that's the kind of thing they're "in it" for.

Just because they share sex and fun times with others doesn't mean they want to lose one another. They make it clear to everyone they "date" that their spouse is their number one relationship and the only permanent one.

Well it definitely qualifies as proof positive that the O.P. has a point.

So they're like really good friends with benefits and a committment to grow old together.

Oh...and btw... you said "queer"

No, they're like husband and wife who also sleep with other people sometimes.

Why would their relationship be reduced to "friends" just because of their sexual choices?

Of course I said queer. I AM queer!

All Savage is saying is know the person you're getting in a relationship with and choose a partner that has the same opinions on what a constitutes a healthy, strong relationship.

The problem, as I see it, is that people are simply not honest with others (and often themselves) when looking for a suitable partner. They get caught up in all the bullshit expectations that are thrust upon them. Those expectations - which, really are just personal preferences, should never be taken as gospel that everyone should adhere to.

JustErin said:

All Savage is saying is know the person you're getting in a relationship with and choose a partner that has the same opinions on what a constitutes a healthy, strong relationship.

The problem, as I see it, is that people are simply not honest with others (and often themselves) when looking for a suitable partner. They get caught up in all the bullshit expectations that are thrust upon them. Those expectations - which, really are just personal preferences, should never be taken as gospel that everyone should adhere to.

Can and should really be applied to all aspects of a relationship - at the beginning as well as continuously, as has been said in this thread.

PunkMistress said:

PurpleJedi said:

Well it definitely qualifies as proof positive that the O.P. has a point.

So they're like really good friends with benefits and a committment to grow old together.

Oh...and btw... you said "queer"

No, they're like husband and wife who also sleep with other people sometimes.

Why would their relationship be reduced to "friends" just because of their sexual choices?

Of course I said queer. I AM queer!

Because I'm biased?

You're right of course, they ARE husband & wife who just happen to sleep with other people consentually sometimes. In the grand scheme of things, that's much, much better than a husband & wife who happen to sleep with other people on the D/L sometimes.

PurpleJedi said:

PunkMistress said:

No, they're like husband and wife who also sleep with other people sometimes.

Why would their relationship be reduced to "friends" just because of their sexual choices?

Of course I said queer. I AM queer!

Because I'm biased?

You're right of course, they ARE husband & wife who just happen to sleep with other people consentually sometimes. In the grand scheme of things, that's much, much better than a husband & wife who happen to sleep with other people on the D/L sometimes.

I would say so, my friend.

I thought we decided that this part of the '60's didn't work.

PunkMistress said:

PurpleJedi said:

Because I'm biased?

You're right of course, they ARE husband & wife who just happen to sleep with other people consentually sometimes. In the grand scheme of things, that's much, much better than a husband & wife who happen to sleep with other people on the D/L sometimes.

I would say so, my friend.

RodeoSchro said:

I thought we decided that this part of the '60's didn't work.

Yeah, but some things come back around...like bell bottoms, or mullets.

HotGritz said:

I think you are of the more common type in the world. Like I posted earlier, hos are trying to justify their hoishness. IMO you are not in a "relationship" if you are sleeping around. You are single. To convice a person to stay in such an arrangement with you especially when they believe in exclusivity is just assinine and selfish and can be dangerous depending on how ticked off the other might get. Like I said most people don't like sharing.

I also think that it takes a bit of an advanced mind and higher spiritual plane to be monogamous. We are afterall still animals and we are still progressing - or maybe regressing depending on who you ask. I admire people who can be monogamos, who can commit to one another on all levels and build a beautiful relationship and who are not afraid of sacrificing a much easier carefree-all-about-me lifestyle. That takes work and you have to want it. I'm not fully there yet because I have a terrible wandering eye and I am admittedly selfish. However, when I do committ I expect my partner to do the same and if he don't his ass gonna get cut!

^

[Edited 7/10/11 9:23am]

sweething said:

Some people need more than one partner, he writes, just as some people need flirting, others need to be whipped, others need lovers of both sexes.

Some people need to realize that we don't need any of these things. Do some people want these things? Sure. Lots of people want all sorts of shit they don't need and that are potentially bad for them.

If you're married and/or have children (especially growing children), I would hope that you and your partner would keep it together for their sake. If you're unmarried, with no children, then I would take Joe Rogan's advice:

'Why do we have to get contracts and lawyers involved? How 'bout if you wanna hang out with somebody, you hang out with 'em. And then, if you don't wanna hang out with 'em anymore, you don't hang out with 'em anymore?'

You don't "need" anything but air, food and shelter. Everything else is gravy (no pun intended). You certainly don't "need" a significant other, or even sex. Some might argue that you'd be happier, in the long run, without them.

At this point, allow me to introduce a quotation posted in this here forum by our own imago:

"Happiness does not come from having much, but from being attached to little." - Buddha

Amen.

nd33 said:

sweething said:

^

I kinda think the opposite - that it takes an advanced mind to separate love from sex and be able to distinguish the two without jealously and or losing the plot.

Do you think that it's possible for the mind and the heart to be at odds with each other?

How about when you are intelligent, reasonable and consciencious enough to come to an intelligent decision regarding, say, an open marriage...and yet a constant physical aching in your chest accompanied by the "swear-to-God someone's twisting my innards with a giant set of pliers" feeling TELLS YOU OTHERWISE?

Is it possible that an advanced mind would need to disconnect with the heart in order to make that separation...and then how do you "love"?

Ace said:

Some people need more than one partner, he writes, just as some people need flirting, others need to be whipped, others need lovers of both sexes.

Some people need to realize that we don't need any of these things. Do some people want these things? Sure. Lots of people want all sorts of shit they don't need and that are potentially bad for them.

If you're married and/or have children (especially growing children), I would hope that you and your partner would keep it together for their sake. If you're unmarried, with no children, then I would take Joe Rogan's advice:

'Why do we have to get contracts and lawyers involved? How 'bout if you wanna hang out with somebody, you hang out with 'em. And then, if you don't wanna hang out with 'em anymore, you don't hang out with 'em anymore?'

You don't "need" anything but air, food and shelter. Everything else is gravy (no pun intended). You certainly don't "need" a significant other, or even sex. Some might argue that you'd be happier, in the long run, without them.

At this point, allow me to introduce a quotation posted in this here forum by our own imago:

"Happiness does not come from having much, but from being attached to little." - Buddha

Amen.

Yeah...AMEN to your (bolded) comment above.

PurpleJedi said:

nd33 said:

sweething said: I kinda think the opposite - that it takes an advanced mind to separate love from sex and be able to distinguish the two without jealously and or losing the plot.

Do you think that it's possible for the mind and the heart to be at odds with each other?

How about when you are intelligent, reasonable and consciencious enough to come to an intelligent decision regarding, say, an open marriage...and yet a constant physical aching in your chest accompanied by the "swear-to-God someone's twisting my innards with a giant set of pliers" feeling TELLS YOU OTHERWISE?

Is it possible that an advanced mind would need to disconnect with the heart in order to make that separation...and then how do you "love"?

I think if you're at odds with your own feelings, then it's prob not right for you.

I don't see why love and sex should be so hard to differentiate.

One's a physical thing and the others a mental/spiritual thing.

You can have great sex with someone you love.

You can have great sex with someone you don't love.

I'm sure you can have great sex with someone you don't love, whilst being in love with someone else and not be affected. It's just a physical human act afterall.

Love is love and an orgasm is an orgasm??

PurpleJedi said:

Just out of curiosity...has an "Open Marriage" (or relationship) worked for anyone you know???

We've spoken on this topic before here...

Yeah, these types of arrangements are far more common than I realized. You don't hear about much in general conversation much () because couples fear being judged. The one thing these men and women have in common I find, they don't see an emotional commitment and sexual relationships as one in the same. Yes, it works for them...

I tend to agree with Savage, in my opinion we need to have serious talks about commitment and marriage fidelity because I don't think monogmay is a natural state for either men or women. Instead of lying, pretending, and pushing the "happily ever after" bullshit he's right about having honest opened converstaions & communication. I'm not saying anything that all of use don't know already but the bottom line sex drives exist mainly for one reason, to keep the species going that's why it can feel sooooo good. Those powerful urges, thoughts, and wants don't disappear because you put a ring on it. We're speaking about an element of life that's up there with food, water, and shelter.

It's not the fucking that would upset me, it's the lying. I've come to the conclusion people "get off" on the lying and sneaking around as much as they do the affair... its an ego boost / rush. Men per say want the best of both worlds a stable home life and semi-single life. Or, they are too cowardly to say they want out of a marriage and use the wife as the fall back, when shit slows down or their in-between trist.

===============

[Edited 7/11/11 10:56am]

ZombieKitten said:

You can also have pretty bed sex with someone you love

"Pretty bed sex" is when you do the deed in something that looks like this;

"Pretty BAD sex" is when you do the deed and you wind up looking like this;

Infidelity....

HotGritz said:

Hos are always trying to justify their hoishness. Ho sit down!!!

right

ZombieKitten said:

I mean bad

NDRU said:

Actually I do know one couple in an open relationship, and they seem happy together, but...

from what I hear their open relationship boils down to him having to listen to his wife have sex with women while he plays videogames Not exactly living the dream IMO

I don't know. I have a feeling some guys, in hindsight, might like their wives better if they went off and did something, anything, for an hour or two and let them play video games.

ZombieKitten said:

You can also have pretty bed sex with someone you love

Pretty bed sex is just for honeymoons isn't it? Like foreplay.

I kid! I kid!

You can have a pretty bed at home too.

.

[Edited 7/12/11 8:49am]

TD3 said:

PurpleJedi said:

Just out of curiosity...has an "Open Marriage" (or relationship) worked for anyone you know???

We've spoken on this topic before here...

Yeah, these types of arrangements are far more common than I realized. You don't hear about much in general conversation much () because couples fear being judged. The one thing these men and women have in common I find, they don't see an emotional commitment and sexual relationships as one in the same. Yes, it works for them...

I tend to agree with Savage, in my opinion we need to have serious talks about commitment and marriage fidelity because I don't think monogmay is a natural state for either men or women. Instead of lying, pretending, and pushing the "happily ever after" bullshit he's right about having honest opened converstaions & communication. I'm not saying anything that all of use don't know already but the bottom line sex drives exist mainly for one reason, to keep the species going that's why it can feel sooooo good. Those powerful urges, thoughts, and wants don't disappear because you put a ring on it. We're speaking about an element of life that's up there with food, water, and shelter.

It's not the fucking that would upset me, it's the lying. I've come to the conclusion people "get off" on the lying and sneaking around as much as they do the affair... its an ego boost / rush. Men per say want the best of both worlds a stable home life and semi-single life. Or, they are too cowardly to say they want out of a marriage and use the wife as the fall back, when shit slows down or their in-between trist.

===============

also, some men want to be the much in demand playboy when there are opportunities.... but when the opportunities dry up (ie, nobody want your dull, spare tire azz) then they can fall back on wifey, who is the pertpetual/ace in the hole ego booster.

Makes the sting of rejection one get in single life a lot less painful. "At least I GOT a date for Saturday night.." mentality... some single men are really out in the cold. It also gives bravado to the married men when attempting to come on to a woman... if she blows him off, so what? He still has wifey at home who is really not that bad looking thanks to those workout tapes/classes at the "Y". I actually thinks this is kind of what happened with Arnold and Maria Schwartenegger.

[Edited 7/12/11 11:49am]

Fauxie said: