I am hesitantly posting.... hoping that it doesn't go off into a bad direction ~ as some other threads about race/color here have.

Disagreements are fine, but, pls keep it civil, respectful. Hopefully, if anything stupid does go down, Mods will deal with those folks individually (and not delete/lock the thread).

the little girl at 2:28.....

http://vimeo.com/24155797 or http://www.youtube.com/wa...rtkNk1-48U

Not sure... it's not even on IMDb (neither as it's own page, nor listed on Duke's page under the Director or Producer credits)

but I found: http://www.dallassouthnew...-duke-pt-2

BD-I just finished acting in a film with Keanu Reeves and James Caan entitled Henry’s Crime, which will be out before the end of the year. Another film I’m finishing up is another documentary that we’re cutting the trailer for right now is called Dark Girls. It’s about the impact of the imposition of western civilization’s standards of beauty on other cultures, especially on African-American and dark-skinned black women.

LIJ- There’s a timely topic, considering the fact that that for the first time in history, a dark-skinned African-American woman is now the First Lady of the United States.

BD- It’s one of the most interesting projects I’ve ever worked on. We ask a young man on-camera, ‘what kind of women do you like dating?’ ‘Pretty ones.’ What do you mean by that?’ ‘Good skin and pretty hair.’ ‘Well, what’s good skin and pretty hair?’ ‘You know, lighter skin and flowing, long straight hair.’ ‘Would you ever date a dark-skinned black woman?’ ‘No.’ ‘Why?’ ‘Because they’re ugly.’ This is the verbatim exchange, I kid you not.

We interview a darker-skinned woman also. She’s beautiful, a dark, dark beautiful woman who’s 34-year-old and she just had a child. We ask her, ‘is there anything that you’ve done, in relation to your skin color, that you regret?’ She starts crying and says well, when I was in labor with my baby…(emotional pause)…I prayed to God that it would not be dark like me. Can you imagine? ‘I prayed to God that it not be dark like me.’

LIJ- So, the baby’s skin tone was more important to her than her health or the baby’s at first? That just shows how deeply the self-image issue affects those who have been taught to dislike their dark skin. It’s heartbreaking.

BD- Strange isn’t it? That’s why I do what I do, the ‘edutainment.’ This is what can ultimately change things.

his site is http://www.officialbillduke.com (FB http://www.facebook.com/o...albillduke) but the website appears to be temporarily down

If I were to lighten anything on me, it would only be done to rid a pimple.

Say it loud "I'm Black and I'm Proud." Rise!

Thanks for posting. Articulate individuals- we hear, but are we really listening?

Yes, thanks for posting this. It broke my heart, but I am really looking forward to seeing the complete film.

I experienced the same thing, but from the other color spectrum, being "high yella." Believe it or not, we've had our share of hurt from our own folk as well.

I remember my first exposure to black-on-black skin color discrimination was in Haiti.

I had spent some time there in my mid 20s as part of a UN envoy during one of their

many tense moments.

Anyways, I befriended a Haitian guard who taught me a little bit of creole, explained

voodoo and some of his beliefs, and other things. One day, he mentioned the Mulattos (this is

a term Hatians actually formally use to identify themselves if they are mixed or light skinned).

10 percent of the population in Haiti is Mulatto. Either they are mixed due to colonial heritage (when the french owned slave plantations in Haiti) or they have been mixed with Native Caribbean. At any rate, to be mixed and light skinned is extremely valued in Haiti. There is absolutely nothing worse than being a pure black or dark skinned Haitian. You might as well be slave labor in that country.

To own a political office or important position in Haiti, one must speak French. Only the Mulattos speak French. This means, 90% of the population is not adequately represented. How the Mulattos are getting away with this is beyond me. I've seen them mistreat black skinned Haitians with verbal insults. I stood there stunned once watching this.

All the TV commercials show light skinned blacks and dark skin blacks when they are shown are seldom depicted as multi-dimensional people.

Here in Asia, I'm seeing it repeated to a lesser extent. But, it's nasty.

Skin bleaching and skin lightening products are not just sold, they are completely accepted in this society. There is actually a drug (That's supposed to be illegal, but is sold anyways) that stops your skin's natural ability to produce melanin thereby dramatically whitening your appearance. Asians will openly admit to wanting to take it (or even to have taken it). There's absolutely no shame in doing it.

I'm half asian/half white---what they call a "Luk Krueng" which literally means "half person." , and I am at the very top of the heap stack in desirability when it comes to skin features. They all desire the height of a westerner, the strong nose (we have big noses--they like that shit). I lack the epicanthic fold, and my frame is western. BUT, I'm visibly Thai in appearance--or at least Thai enough. But this adoration of white features doesn't mean an Asian wants to be a Caucasian. Aside from our eyes and a few features, there are very few Asians who would want to be one--they even vew many western features as a bit freakish. It's as if they want to build their own perfect Frankenstein from the features of other races to build a master race that looks relatively Asian.

The worst thing in the world to be in Thailand is a dark skin Thai woman with 100% Thai features. I absolutely HATE the commercials here that depict Thai women with super whitened skin, big-EYE contacts, and ridiculously over-exposed lighting. It's creepy, creepy, creepy.

And white folks reading this--don't think I'm picking on yall. I'm not. I love sleeping with white folks! You guys are absolutely adorable and gorgeous!!! What I'm picking is the idea that you guys are the only representation of adorable and gorgeous.

Oh, btw, your thread will probably get locked.

Wow thanks Imago for sharing your story! You brought up some interesting topics I did not think about.

I havent always adored the darker complexion of a person myself for the first couple of years growing up. I remember for some reason always wanting a girlfriend that had long hair, lightskinned and with some type of ethnicity. I always thought that white girls would not like me because they thought lower of black people so I would never even try. Even after coming out of the closet I found it odd to even think about a white guy wanting a gay black man. I didn't think that could really happen...even though my first was a white man.

It took one particular time in my life to realise how bad this self hatred of being dark skinned was. I took a road trip with my ex and he commented like the girl did on the preview of the documentary about how attractive I was....then he added, "if only you were white!!" As if I was supposed to agree and cheer. After that ...I started loving my complexion even more, and throwing away everything I thought bad about someone elses features.

Unfortunately this happens in many cultures. In Mexico if you're too dark they think of it as being too much like an indigenous person, "indito". Like it's a bad thing. My friend from India says that happens in her culture as well.

paisleypark4 said:

Wow thanks Imago for sharing your story! You brought up some interesting topics I did not think about.

I havent always adored the darker complexion of a person myself for the first couple of years growing up. I remember for some reason always wanting a girlfriend that had long hair, lightskinned and with some type of ethnicity. I always thought that white girls would not like me because they thought lower of black people so I would never even try. Even after coming out of the closet I found it odd to even think about a white guy wanting a gay black man. I didn't think that could really happen...even though my first was a white man.

It took one particular time in my life to realise how bad this self hatred of being dark skinned was. I took a road trip with my ex and he commented like the girl did on the preview of the documentary about how attractive I was....then he added, "if only you were white!!" As if I was supposed to agree and cheer. After that ...I started loving my complexion even more, and throwing away everything I thought bad about someone elses features.

What color was your friend that made the comment?

imago said:

PositivityNYC said:

I am hesitantly posting.... hoping that it doesn't go off into a bad direction ~ as some other threads about race/color here have.

Disagreements are fine, but, pls keep it civil, respectful. Hopefully, if anything stupid does go down, Mods will deal with those folks individually (and not delete/lock the thread).

the little girl at 2:28.....

http://vimeo.com/24155797 or http://www.youtube.com/wa...rtkNk1-48U

Clips from the upcoming documentary exploring the deep-seated biases and attitudes about skin color---particularly dark skinned women, outside of and within the Black American culture.

Directed by Bill Duke and D. Channsin Berry
Produced by Bill Duke for Duke Media
and D. Channsin Berry for Urban Winter Entertainment
Co-Produced by Bradinn French
Edited by Bradinn French

Thanks for posting this. It looks as if it will be a powerful film, even this snippet is. I look forward to the release of the full-length feature; it will be a great classroom teaching tool.

This is really sad, but so true, I am a fair skinned Africian American female, my mother is Africain American (dark skinned) and my father is Puerto Rician (very light skinned).

I graduated from dental school last year and I am on an Indian Reservation in Grand Forks ND, doing an internship. My moms came up to help get me settled, The first questions that were asked, were is that your Real Mom, and is your Dad white; now might I also add, I look identical to my mom's, except for the skin color. (my mom's is the skin color and looks like the original Vivian on the tv show Fresh Prince).

The person that asked stumbled so badly at what she was trying to say that it came out worse than the original question. Here's what she said " It's just that your so beautiful, I thought maybe you were adopted or had a white father". I was so upset all I could ask was what are you really trying to say, my Mom's is Ugly or what? She broke down and said "no she's just really dark".

All my life there's been stares or comments, I guess if I had been walking around the mall with a white/light skinned mother it would have been more exceptable to society, or atleast answered the stares and questions.

I remember once watching (Imitation of Life), where the daughter looked white, with a dark skinned mother and didn't want to own her race, she wanted to be raised and viewed as white, I thought how sad, because I am so proud of my mother, she a beautiful black woman; never once have I wished she were lighter, nor have I ever been ashamed that she is dark skinned. I couldn't wait for my mom's to bring treats to class when I was a child.

The irony of it all is, I am a product of an interracial marriage, even called beauitiful, on the strength that the dark skinned woman can't be my mother, now once you realize she's my Mom am I still beautiful. Society really does judge and look at color, and hair textures as being a problem. Whats even worse it's coming from our own race of people. But that's their hang up!!!!!

Shyra said:

Yes, thanks for posting this. It broke my heart, but I am really looking forward to seeing the complete film.

I experienced the same thing, but from the other color spectrum, being "high yella." Believe it or not, we've had our share of hurt from our own folk as well.

:nods: it goes both ways, most unfortunately

have darker toned men said anything unpleasant to you, or just women?

Shyra said:

Yes, thanks for posting this. It broke my heart, but I am really looking forward to seeing the complete film.

I experienced the same thing, but from the other color spectrum, being "high yella." Believe it or not, we've had our share of hurt from our own folk as well.

I hear ya Shyra and I too am looking forward to the complete film. For myself, being neither dark nor high yella but more olive complected or tan, I've gotten the mistreatment from both sides. I'm not light enough nor dark enough OR I'm too light or too dark. Its a terrible thing the emphasis that's put on color. Believe it or not...I've seen this in every other racial group although not to the same degree as black people. I've seen mixed race asians looked down upon by non-mixed, I've seen blonde/blue eyed caucasians look down on caucasians with dark hair and eyes as well as latinos who have visible indian and african features or dark skin get dismissed by those that look more anglo.

Amazed that people are still falling 4 this nonsense.

Those Black woman are beautiful and need 2 wake up and reject B.S. where it stands.

I'd love 2 wake up tomorrow and be the same skin tone as Wesley Snipes.......

Graycap23 said:

Amazed that people are still falling 4 this nonsense.

Those Black woman are beautiful and need 2 wake up and reject B.S. where it stands.

I'd love 2 wake up tomorrow and be the same skin tone as Wesley Snipes.......

Graycap, I second that, oh wow we aren't back in the 60's be what and who you are...your alive, be greatful for that....I wish someone would have bleached my damn bathwater...just add some more Mr. Bubble!

Kinnon said:

This is really sad, but so true, I am a fair skinned Africian American female, my mother is Africain American (dark skinned) and my father is Puerto Rician (very light skinned).

I graduated from dental school last year and I am on an Indian Reservation in Grand Forks ND, doing an internship. My moms came up to help get me settled, The first questions that were asked, were is that your Real Mom, and is your Dad white; now might I also add, I look identical to my mom's, except for the skin color. (my mom's is the skin color and looks like the original Vivian on the tv show Fresh Prince).

The person that asked stumbled so badly at what she was trying to say that it came out worse than the original question. Here's what she said " It's just that your so beautiful, I thought maybe you were adopted or had a white father". I was so upset all I could ask was what are you really trying to say, my Mom's is Ugly or what? She broke down and said "no she's just really dark".

All my life there's been stares or comments, I guess if I had been walking around the mall with a white/light skinned mother it would have been more exceptable to society, or atleast answered the stares and questions.

I remember once watching (Imitation of Life), where the daughter looked white, with a dark skinned mother and didn't want to own her race, she wanted to be raised and viewed as white, I thought how sad, because I am so proud of my mother, she a beautiful black woman; never once have I wished she were lighter, nor have I ever been ashamed that she is dark skinned. I couldn't wait for my mom's to bring treats to class when I was a child.

The irony of it all is, I am a product of an interracial marriage, even called beauitiful, on the strength that the dark skinned woman can't be my mother, now once you realize she's my Mom am I still beautiful. Society really does judge and look at color, and hair textures as being a problem. Whats even worse it's coming from our own race of people. But that's their hang up!!!!!

Girl don't know who u you are but keep being the positive sistah you are sweetie....you can look like a troll under the bridge, as long as you know your worth, never let anyone make you doubt you. Yes You are Beautiful....never let anyone steal your joy!!!!

PositivityNYC said:

Shyra said:

Yes, thanks for posting this. It broke my heart, but I am really looking forward to seeing the complete film.

I experienced the same thing, but from the other color spectrum, being "high yella." Believe it or not, we've had our share of hurt from our own folk as well.

:nods: it goes both ways, most unfortunately

have darker toned men said anything unpleasant to you, or just women?

The hurtful comments came from women mostly. Men were a little more subtle with their insults, but they still hurt.

I remember an incident at college. I had arrived at Howard University in Washington, DC fresh out the Garden State, naive as Shirley Temple, and itching to "get with my people" after having attended predominately white public schools all my life. This was back in the day when dormitories were not coed and usually there were two girls to a room. The first week, everyone was getting acquainted and making new friends, and one afternoon I and about 4-5 girls were in someones room just chatting and getting to know one another. I'll never forget this. Paula Greenfield from Corpus Christie, Texas lit into my ass something fierce. Paula was very dark and a beautiful girl. We were talking about something, I really can't remember what, but Paula burst out with, "Oh, Patricia! You make me sick cause you light skinned with that long, flyblow hair and you just think you better than me!" I was flabbergasted. I had said nothing inflammatory or insulting. It was like she just came out of the blue with it. I told her, "What are you talking about and where the hell did that come from?!? I said noting about color or hair! You really hurt my feelings!" And I ran out the room in tears.

Men would make comments like, "Hey, Red Bone! Can I have a bite o' that fish sammich?" or, "Yeah, I know you got all the dudes flockin round you, red bone! All you gotta do is fling that long hair, huh?" It would piss me the fuck off, and as I got older and gained more street smarts and confidence, I'd cuss a nuccah out quick! I got tired of defending me because of the way I was born, and fuck you if you had a problem!

HotGritz said:

Shyra said:

Yes, thanks for posting this. It broke my heart, but I am really looking forward to seeing the complete film.

I experienced the same thing, but from the other color spectrum, being "high yella." Believe it or not, we've had our share of hurt from our own folk as well.

I hear ya Shyra and I too am looking forward to the complete film. For myself, being neither dark nor high yella but more olive complected or tan, I've gotten the mistreatment from both sides. I'm not light enough nor dark enough OR I'm too light or too dark. Its a terrible thing the emphasis that's put on color. Believe it or not...I've seen this in every other racial group although not to the same degree as black people. I've seen mixed race asians looked down upon by non-mixed, I've seen blonde/blue eyed caucasians look down on caucasians with dark hair and eyes as well as latinos who have visible indian and african features or dark skin get dismissed by those that look more anglo.

I know, girl. It's fuggin sick and a damn shame. When I see it now, I have to walk away because I get too emotional and I might say or do something I shouldn't.

Shyra said:

PositivityNYC said:

:nods: it goes both ways, most unfortunately

have darker toned men said anything unpleasant to you, or just women?

The hurtful comments came from women mostly. Men were a little more subtle with their insults, but they still hurt.

I remember an incident at college. I had arrived at Howard University in Washington, DC fresh out the Garden State, naive as Shirley Temple, and itching to "get with my people" after having attended predominately white public schools all my life. This was back in the day when dormitories were not coed and usually there were two girls to a room. The first week, everyone was getting acquainted and making new friends, and one afternoon I and about 4-5 girls were in someones room just chatting and getting to know one another. I'll never forget this. Paula Greenfield from Corpus Christie, Texas lit into my ass something fierce. Paula was very dark and a beautiful girl. We were talking about something, I really can't remember what, but Paula burst out with, "Oh, Patricia! You make me sick cause you light skinned with that long, flyblow hair and you just think you better than me!" I was flabbergasted. I had said nothing inflammatory or insulting. It was like she just came out of the blue with it. I told her, "What are you talking about and where the hell did that come from?!? I said noting about color or hair! You really hurt my feelings!" And I ran out the room in tears.

Men would make comments like, "Hey, Red Bone! Can I have a bite o' that fish sammich?" or, "Yeah, I know you got all the dudes flockin round you, red bone! All you gotta do is fling that long hair, huh?" It would piss me the fuck off, and as I got older and gained more street smarts and confidence, I'd cuss a nuccah out quick! I got tired of defending me because of the way I was born, and fuck you if you had a problem!

That's a sad story and I applaud you for getting your street smarts, your confidence and thick skin and being able to strike back when faced with those kinds of ignorant and insensitive comments. It seems alot of people carry pain with them from either their family, public perception or individual experiences and they bring that pain with them to the next interaction and relationship and take it out on somebody who doesn't deserve it - its an ugly cycle.

You didn't say anything to Paula to warrant such a comment and reaction from her but for her perhaps you represented those people that she had been discriminated or mistreated by (maybe a man who told her she wasn't beautiful or a job she lost to a light skinned woman). The underlying hatred has to come from somewhere. I can't imagine people just wake up one day and decide they will despise their sisters/brothers all because of color. Maybe he has its roots in slavery/jim crow or maybe it has always been an issue and always will be. Perhaps it is different depending on what part of the country you grew up in (progressive north versus rigid south).

I see a similar thing between those who have a higher education and income versus those that maybe barely graduated highschool and are struggling in low-end paying jobs. There is this perception of being bougie and "not down" or "disconnected" from the rest of the community. I swear we have divided ourselves on so many levels it is a wonder we are still here, still strong and still thriving.

I hate this...this is still happening in this world??

My mom is black. I'm proud of her. She is darker than me. I'm usually somewhere between olive skin and a medium tan, depending on the seasons. Where she comes from, Egypt, she never faced discrimination. She didn't look like the other Arab girls (they come in all shades, too btw)..she was still accepted and loved by everyone. She's a doctor...and even to this day...she is insecure about her skin color. I remember when I was younger...my mom thought she didn't belong with all the "white, beautiful moms" who picked their kids up from school. I always told her I thought she was beautiful...but I don't think she ever truly believes me.

Everyday though, I tell her she's beautiful.

But one thing she told me is...her father used to say, beauty in all colors eventually fades, but people will always remember the contributions you have made to the world. He told her that before he passed away, in her first year of med school.

My mom is an inspiration to me. She's everything I wish I could be, and hopefully someday I will.

I am gonna see this movie when it comes out, and I'm takin' her with me.

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

I hate this...this is still happening in this world??

My mom is black. I'm proud of her. She is darker than me. I'm usually somewhere between olive skin and a medium tan, depending on the seasons. Where she comes from, Egypt, she never faced discrimination. She didn't look like the other Arab girls (they come in all shades, too btw)..she was still accepted and loved by everyone. She's a doctor...and even to this day...she is insecure about her skin color. I remember when I was younger...my mom thought she didn't belong with all the "white, beautiful moms" who picked their kids up from school. I always told her I thought she was beautiful...but I don't think she ever truly believes me.

Everyday though, I tell her she's beautiful.

But one thing she told me is...her father used to say, beauty in all colors eventually fades, but people will always remember the contributions you have made to the world. He told her that before he passed away, in her first year of med school.

My mom is an inspiration to me. She's everything I wish I could be, and hopefully someday I will.

I am gonna see this movie when it comes out, and I'm takin' her with me.

you had a wise grandpa

[Edited 5/26/11 15:40pm]

NONSENSE said:

[Edited 5/26/11 15:40pm]

I thought so!!!!!!!!!!

im sorry im not impressed

99.9% of the people who think like that are not educated

can we glorify black people with self esteem and individuality for once.. damn

PositivityNYC said:

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

I hate this...this is still happening in this world??

My mom is black. I'm proud of her. She is darker than me. I'm usually somewhere between olive skin and a medium tan, depending on the seasons. Where she comes from, Egypt, she never faced discrimination. She didn't look like the other Arab girls (they come in all shades, too btw)..she was still accepted and loved by everyone. She's a doctor...and even to this day...she is insecure about her skin color. I remember when I was younger...my mom thought she didn't belong with all the "white, beautiful moms" who picked their kids up from school. I always told her I thought she was beautiful...but I don't think she ever truly believes me.

Everyday though, I tell her she's beautiful.

But one thing she told me is...her father used to say, beauty in all colors eventually fades, but people will always remember the contributions you have made to the world. He told her that before he passed away, in her first year of med school.

My mom is an inspiration to me. She's everything I wish I could be, and hopefully someday I will.

I am gonna see this movie when it comes out, and I'm takin' her with me.

you had a wise grandpa

I sadly never met him. He died almost 15-20 years before i was born. But yeah, my mom and grandma (his widow) always told me what a good and wise man he was. He was also a dark-skinned man, by Arab standards.

Graycap23 said:

Amazed that people are still falling 4 this nonsense.

Those Black woman are beautiful and need 2 wake up and reject B.S. where it stands.

I'd love 2 wake up tomorrow and be the same skin tone as Wesley Snipes.......

What do you mean by that?

formallypickles said:

im sorry im not impressed

99.9% of the people who think like that are not educated

can we glorify black people with self esteem and individuality for once.. damn

[img:$uid]http://img1.meetupstatic.com/img/smileys/raised_eyebrow.gif[/img:$uid]

Those who think like the women interviewed are not educated? Professors who study and agree with the premise/theme of documentaries like this would prove otherwise.

WaterInYourBath said:

formallypickles said:

im sorry im not impressed

99.9% of the people who think like that are not educated

can we glorify black people with self esteem and individuality for once.. damn

[img:$uid]http://img1.meetupstatic.com/img/smileys/raised_eyebrow.gif[/img:$uid]

Those who think like the women interviewed are not educated? Professors who study and agree with the premise/theme of documentaries like this would prove otherwise.

there not educated in their self worth and culture

i should been more direct when i said "educated"

[Edited 5/26/11 17:37pm]