Now, from the title i'm sure some people are going to be like "what the hell?" but hear me out.

This was a HUGE debate on CNN a couple of weeks ago.

I recently moved to NYC from Detroit. Now i'm not going to make this a "NYC" thing, because this was a pet peeve of mine when i lived in Detroit. And that was babies in bars. YES, babies. IN BARS.

I had dj residencies at bars for almost 4 years straight, and would occasionally see people bringing kids into the bar and it would drive me NUTS. In Michigan, you can smoke in bars and to see people with kids in there literally made me nuts. I almost got into a fight with a bartender at one neighborhood place that i'd frequent because his brother brought his kid in there and had him bellied up to the bar and I went off about it.

Here in NYC, obviously you can't smoke in bars but it doesn't make it less of an issue for me. I have a son, and he's never been in a bar and I wouldn't dream of taking him to one. I don't think I'd take him outside of the house if i'd been drinking, but that's just me. I've seen people here in Brooklyn WEARING BABIES ON THEIR BELLIES AT THE BAR AND SPILLING BEER ON THEM. And today, on St. Patrick's Day of all days I stopped by a neighborhood spot to grab a couple of pints and there were no less than 6 people with kids hanging out.

Here seems to be the point of contention.
There seems to be a difference of opinion over what a "bar" is.
Hipsters here seem to think that if it's a "pub" then it's alright.
To me a "pub" is a bar that serves food, and that's for grown folks.
If there's an actual BAR for people to sit at, then you probably shouldn't have your kid in there.

Anyways, that's my take on it.
What say you , Org?

I've never seen that let alone even think anybody in their right mind would do that.

wow.

You would be surprised at the people that for whatever reason think it's okay.
ESPECIALLY here in NYC.

I'm all for it!

Then I'm not the only one being sick and soiling myself!

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[Edited 3/17/10 17:00pm]

a few weeks ago the waitress at famous dave's tried to sit us at the bar with our 5 year old son. i was like i don't think so!

mcmeekle said:

DanceWme said:

I can see both sides to this issue. Depends on the establishment, the time of day (naturally) and the people involved.

If it's the middle of the afternoon and mom and/or dad are having one (or two drinks max) and leaving, I don't see that it's THAT big of a deal if it's not a seedy drinkers bar. If they also serve food and such. There are plenty of places that serve food and alcohol and there's nothing wrong with bringing a baby to.

Now, if it's a BAR and the primary activity is drinking and/or music stuff then it's WRONG. And should not be allowed, period. Especially if smoking were allowed. Bleh.

I remember people bringing small children to Paisley Park during the celebrations and I felt so sorry for those kids. Keeping them up WAY past their bedtimes with nothing to do at the park but run around and damage their precious little ears with the noise levels. I was SO angry with those parents. I've seen infants there before. That's NOT a place for tender young ears.

CarrieMpls said:

I'm a lot pickier. I'm not going to take my child anywhere that drunken adults are a high likelihood. So i don't care if it's first thing in the morning, or the middle of the afternoon. You take your kids to a RESTAURANT. If there's a BAR with a BARTENDER? I don't care if they're serving food, it's a BAR THAT SERVES FOOD. Which means grown folks doing grown things. Which means I don't want to see fucking kids in there.

The problem is fucking hipster parents that "still want to be cool" and don't want to be responsible. If you decided to be parents, then BE PARENTS. That means you get a BABYSITTER if you want grown-time. I don't care how cool you think you are, and how cute you think your kid is, they don't belong there. And I personally don't think you should be drinking and being responsible for infants anyways. That's just me.

Am I a bad person for LMAO at the visual of WEARING BABIES ON THEIR BELLIES AT THE BAR AND SPILLING BEER ON THEM???


I do agree with you tho. Babies don't belong in bars.

ButterscotchPimp said:

On the one hand, I see your point.

On the other, one drink isn't harmful to anybody, so a parent isn't doing anything wrong. Should they get wasted? Absolutely not. But a glass of wine or a pint isn't gonna hurt anything.

As for other patrons of the bar - that's what I meant by depends on the establishment.

I really think our attitude towards alcohol is all wrong in the US. If it weren't so "taboo" and we taught our children to consume it responsibly (by example) we wouldn't have nearly the problems we do.

What about a pub? It's a common thing for families to go to a pub for a meal and a drink in England. Not bars, but a pub.

When I left England last time we had 41 members of our family all out for a meal together. The youngest was four....

connorhawke said:

And that's what I'm talking about. A pub, not a bar.

CarrieMpls said:

But who's to say? Some people depending on size/weight/tolerance get quite a buzz off of a "pint" or a glass of wine. If you're at home, I guess that's alright. But you're out walking around and you have your baby with you and your judgement is impaired. Isn't your first responsibility to protect your child? And if you're in a bar, sure maybe YOU just have a pint. But it's a BAR. Isn't the likelihood of someone else having WAY more than a pint MUCH higher? So there's a drunk adult who's having a shitty day trying to unwind and they're cussing and telling dirty jokes, and you're there because you can't get a babysitter? Really???

The first time my kid walks into a bar, he'll be carded and under his own steam. Not in a stroller pushed by me, after i've had a pint or two.

We've taken our nephew down to Khao San Road here in Bangkok a couple of times, when he was 3 or 4 years old. There was drinking and smoking around him, but he had a great time (was dancing in the street, much to everyone's amusement), and I figured the pros of him enjoying that busy, interesting place (an assault on the senses) a couple of times far outweigh the cons. We took him home by 9pm.

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[Edited 3/17/10 19:41pm]

CarrieMpls said:

And MY point is a PUB is a BAR.
If there's a bartender standing behind a bar?
It's a BAR THAT SERVES FOOD.
Which means BABIES SHOULDN'T BE IN THERE.

And don't get me started on places that don't have smoking bans yet.

CarrieMpls said:

that's a grup part of life sundays in the beergarden with the family

ButterscotchPimp said:

I think there is a huge culture difference

Most pubs here have a bistro, which is like a big restaurant usually with an indoor playground for the kids, and a bar for the adults, complete with barman.
Everyone takes their kids to the pub. There is usually a public bar at the front full of old drunks and louts that bet on TAB, kids aren't encouraged to go in there, and that's OK with everyone because they are being fully catered for already

I don't see the big deal.

Babies and/or small children have been going into bars in Chicago forever, it's part of the cities culture. I went to bars with my father/parents, my kid went to bars with me and my husband, her grandparents, and her uncles. The law in the City of Chicago is, as long as you serve food, many bars have a menu but it's still a bar. We had some women a decade ago ( an outsider) who came into town and thought this was appalling and she wanted the city to change the law. In 48 hours she recieved death threats, someone put both of her family cars on flats, she went somewhere and sat her butt down.

I agree about the culture difference.
When I think "bar" I think about rowdiness or the possibility of a hook up. I do not think about family meals.

johnart said:

here the word bar can be a couple of different things, a cool place to drink, be seen and hook up, a place for old guys to bet and get blotto and avoid the missus (and no, these 2 places are NOT one and the same ) and literally the place where the drinks are bought in a bistro.

ZombieKitten said:

Obviously a big culture difference. I kind of spent a few years in a pub as a kid. My uncle owned it. It's ok as long as you're not drinking.

But then again in many places in Europe some kids can drink a little bit of wine....

connorhawke said:

my friend Laura's parents owned the pub in Bruthen, we'd play in the pub when I was there for sleepovers nobody thought it was wrong!!

however, nightclubs in King Street, whole other story

Were you in Park Slope? There was just an article about this in the NY Times not too long ago.

ButterScotchPimp said:

The word 'pub' is short for public house, so I think you are more apt to see familes, etc. in those as opposed to a bar.

Also, do you think kids shouldn't be allowed at places like Applebees, TGIFs, Hard Rock Cafes, etc. that have bars with bartenders? What about bowling alleys? Where does one draw the line?


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[Edited 3/17/10 21:12pm]

ButterscotchPimp said:

I used to think it was a bit offensive and just wrong.

However, after a few visits to the UK and Germany, it doesn't bother me that much.

Kids know what is 'adult' and what is for them if you set the record straight to them. It's one of the reasons you can see nudity on their televisions--they just have a different attitude towards it.


I'd rather see hanging out at a bar for children demystified than the grotesque college binge drinking college & highschool Americans tend to do. It's like they've stumbled upon the holy grail of bad-assery when they can get ahold of liquor.

But then again, I've not read ANY studies on whether it's good or bad for kids--I just know from observation that it doesn't seem to affect UK or Germany kids all that much at the pubs.

TheVoid said:

Very good point.

By the way, is that you in your avatar?

Also, you can't fight a baby when you're drunk. No matter how big an asshole that baby is. People look at you funny.

Get them out the bars!