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I have a LadyBoy as a student. I’ve been teaching English at a pretty prestigious International University here in Bangkok now for the last week (yes, I’m a total newbie at what I’m doing). To say that I enjoy my work would be nothing more than a gross understatement. I absolutely love what I’m doing for the first time in almost 5 years. Dare I say it, it’s quite possibley the most fun I’ve evey had working at any place, in any position, ever. There is something to be said about having your students wait until after class to hand little gifts to you just because they like you. Or, to have them stand at the door after class saying, “Ajan (the word for teacher/professor), Dan—goodbye…Have a good day.” It’s positively heart warming. It’s healing.
I’ve been ‘volunteered’ to work one day a week in a town about 2 hours outside of Bangkok located on the shores of the Gulf of Thailand not far from the resort location of Pataya and Ban Saeng. It’s a high school which is trying to get a certain percentage of their students in to my University. There’s a ‘handshake’ program in which I’m required to give these students a 10 week intensive English learning program. The students are much less polished than the senior 4th year college students that I lecture to on a normal basis. These students laugh, and joke, and must be told at least 4 or 5 times a day to quite down. But along with this spunk and energy is a certain willingness to volunteer for class activities that is lacking in my more demure and reserved college students. But I’ve noticed something very …unique… at least in my experience… about 2 of my students. I have a few gay students in each class. Thailand is not a country that is openly hostile to gay youth. As a matter of fact, young, gay men in Thailand are self-actualized with regards to their homosexuality long before their western counterparts. By the time a homosexual male is 13 or 14, he may very well already be ‘out’ to his parents and all of his friends. And there is little or no discrimination or harassment that I can tell that takes place with them. They’re simply just gay, and nobody seems to turn it into a moral or political item for posturing. This does not mean, of course, that my gay students are ‘one of the boys’, nor does it mean that they are free of bullying. Boy swill bully each other, and being more feminine than that the other boys is surely going to be an easy attribute to pick on. But the idea that you gang up on and ‘beat the fag’ isn’t part of the Thai mentality. That being said, I have gay students in each of my classes who are ‘out’ with no need to make a statement about it. However, in my high school class that I teach once a week, one of the students is actually a ladyboy. He’s very pale, obviously lightening his skin, and he has the cutest little smile. His mannerisms are typically female. But the poor kid must dress in the boy’s uniform (dark blue shorts, white socks, black shoes, and white button shirt). Boys at the highschool must also not have hair that touches their shoulders—the dress code is very strict. I did a meet-and-greet with the students asking them to give a short speech about themvelves. When I called on him, I said, “And you sir. What is your name?”. The boy in front of him, who is your typical masculine alpha-male type, corrected me and said, “no sir, Ajan Dan… M’am.—He keotoey (their word for ladyboy). The class than laughed and giggled, and the boy looked at me with a shy smile and said, “(his name), ka (the female polite word added to the end of sentences).” I, having seen plenty of ladyboys in Bangkok and being VERY sensitive to making sure my students don’t feel alienated, simply nodded in respect then carried on the conversation about his “likes and dislikes about his classes, which was part of the meet-and-greet speeches.” His friend, who sat beside him, was very feminine too--but not as much so. He was more like a flamboyantly gay man--But someone who definitely identified as a man and not a woman or ladyboy. What completely blew my mind, though I dared not show it, was that everyone in class knew what he was. He felt no need to hide it. He felt no need to apologize or feel ashamed of himself. The alpha-male joked at him, but not in a mean way---he joked at him sort of like you would with a good friend of yours. It was the strangest thing I’ve ever seen here in Thailand—and believe me, I’ve seen a lot of strange things. The dichotomy between the repressed, puritan West, with it’s supposed championing of diversity and human rights verses Thailand's tolerance towards homosexuals is stark. The U.S. has many many decades if not another century to catch up with Thailand when it comes to acceptance of differences with sexuality. Can you imagine an America where teenage boys don’t have to go through their adolescent years being secretly in love with unrequited objects of affection? Where they don’t feel a need to pray…indeed plead and beg God to let them ‘not be gay.’? Where they don’t need to live in fear of being rejected by family, friends, and society? Where they don’t have to go on to sometimes becoming repressed self-hating Republican senators? (And democratic ones too). I don’t mean to romanticize Thailand’s acceptance of homsexuals—it’s not perfect. Fathers and mothers would still be very disappointed and upset if their sons were gay or transgender. But the level of their disappointment is more about what’s preferred and ‘better for the child’ or family than what is right or wrong. It’s more about being ‘normal’ to them than being moral. I had so many things I wanted to say about this subject, but the ideas and thoughts now escape me. All I can say is that with each passing day, I become more and more in love with my heritage, my motherland, and humankind. I’m finding happiness in the strangest experiences, and I love it more than I can convey in this sloppy post. . [Edited 11/16/09 2:50am] | |
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Ex-Moderator | awwww... that's really, really awesome. |
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I am so incredibly happy to read this.
(It's not sloppy at all.) This is exactly the richly layered and fulfilling experience you've been waiting for! I'm so goddamn motherfucking happy. | |
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Imago said: But I’ve noticed something very …unique… at least in my experience… about 2 of my students. I have a few gay students in each class. Thailand is not a country that is openly hostile to gay youth. As a matter of fact, young, gay men in Thailand are self-actualized with regards to their homosexuality long before their western counterparts. By the time a homosexual male is 13 or 14, he may very well already be ‘out’ to his parents and all of his friends. And there is little or no discrimination or harassment that I can tell that takes place with them. They’re simply just gay, and nobody seems to turn it into a moral or political item for posturing. This does not mean, of course, that my gay students are ‘one of the boys’, nor does it mean that they are free of bullying. Boy swill bully each other, and being more feminine than that the other boys is surely going to be an easy attribute to pick on. But the idea that you gang up on and ‘beat the fag’ isn’t part of the Thai mentality. That being said, I have gay students in each of my classes who are ‘out’ with no need to make a statement about it. ... What completely blew my mind, though I dared not show it, was that everyone in class knew what he was. He felt no need to hide it. He felt no need to apologize or feel ashamed of himself. The alpha-male joked at him, but not in a mean way---he joked at him sort of like you would with a good friend of yours. It was the strangest thing I’ve ever seen here in Thailand—and believe me, I’ve seen a lot of strange things. The dichotomy between the repressed, puritan West, with it’s supposed championing of diversity and human rights, has many many decades if not another century to catch up with Thailand when it comes to acceptance of differences with sexuality. Can you imagine an America where teenage boys don’t have to go through their adolescent years being secretly in love with unrequited objects of affection? Where they don’t feel a need to pray…indeed plead and beg God to let them ‘not be gay.’? Where they don’t need to live in fear of being rejected by family, friends, and society? Where they don’t have to go on to sometimes becoming repressed self-hating Republican senators? (And democratic ones too). I don’t mean to romanticize Thailand’s acceptance of homsexuals—it’s not perfect. Fathers and mothers would still be very disappointed and upset if their sons were gay or transgender. But the level of their disappointment is more about what’s preferred and ‘better for the child’ or family than what is right or wrong. It’s more about being ‘normal’ to them than being moral. This is such an enlightening read, Dan, really. Thanks. I think that's an important distinction - parents may have some disappointment, but what's profound is the absence of judgment and hate, no? [Edited 11/14/09 7:38am] | |
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CarrieMpls said: awwww... that's really, really awesome.
So are your boobies! | |
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PunkMistress said: I am so incredibly happy to read this.
(It's not sloppy at all.) This is exactly the richly layered and fulfilling experience you've been waiting for! I'm so goddamn motherfucking happy. You're like my soul sibling or something sometimes. OTA | |
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Ex-Moderator | Imago said: CarrieMpls said: awwww... that's really, really awesome.
So are your boobies! |
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CarrieMpls said: Imago said: So are your boobies! Did you see that Renhoak found the imago-brick gif? | |
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Ex-Moderator | Imago said: CarrieMpls said: Did you see that Renhoak found the imago-brick gif? ooh!!! Where is it?? |
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CarrieMpls said: Imago said: Did you see that Renhoak found the imago-brick gif? ooh!!! Where is it?? You're jacking this thread. I just thought you should know that. | |
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Imago said: PunkMistress said: I am so incredibly happy to read this.
(It's not sloppy at all.) This is exactly the richly layered and fulfilling experience you've been waiting for! I'm so goddamn motherfucking happy. You're like my soul sibling or something sometimes. OTA ota mota foka | |
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What a cool story. It's stuff like this that makes life worth living sometimes.
Tell me (because I'm pretty darned ignorant here), is He keotoey, "lady boy," actually a fairly standard, neutral word for transgendered persons in Thailand? Or is it a perjorative term? Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.” | |
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Thank you Dan for sharing your eye opening experience.
One can learn many things from many cultures. Maybe the western world is stuck up. Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture! REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince "I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben |
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I find it very disturbing...
that you're teaching English...do you double check the words in the book before you write them on the board?? because we all know you can't spell for shit... | |
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roodboi said: I find it very disturbing...
that you're teaching English...do you double check the words in the book before you write them on the board?? because we all know you can't spell for shit... !!! | |
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roodboi said: I find it very disturbing...
that you're teaching English...do you double check the words in the book before you write them on the board?? because we all know you can't spell for shit... X 1000 Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture! REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince "I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben |
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Beautiful story Imago
at the same time I feel like my country USA sucks at this kind of thing. Imago ....does the county have rights for gays/lesbians if they are that accepting of homosexualality or they like the USA still fighting for rights? Just wondering *spelling edit* [Edited 11/14/09 15:29pm] Smurf theme song-seriously how many fucking "La Las" can u fit into a dam song
Proud Wendy and Lisa Fancy Lesbian asskisser | |
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toots said: Beautiful story Imago
at the same time I feel like my country USA sucks at this kind of thing. Imago ....does the county have rights for gays/lesbians if they are that accepting of homosexualality or they like the USA still fighting for rights? Just wondering *spelling edit* [Edited 11/14/09 15:29pm] They have the same rights. In America, transgender and cross dressing often have to resort to 'entertainment' venues for a living. Here in Bangkok (and other places in Thailand), it's not unusual to see a ladyboy standing in your hotel lobby (or at the counter of any customer-facing job) greeting you. | |
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Lammastide said: What a cool story. It's stuff like this that makes life worth living sometimes.
Tell me (because I'm pretty darned ignorant here), is He keotoey, "lady boy," actually a fairly standard, neutral word for transgendered persons in Thailand? Or is it a perjorative term? It's not a derogatory tearm officially. But like anything, it depends on your family and friend's point-of-view as to wether it's derogatory. A neutral term like 'retarded' has been so misused in the states that we now have to say "mentally challeged" and other things because it's taken on a negative connotation. Keotoey hasn't gotten to the point yet, but maybe it will. Who knows? I haven't been here very long, but I don't see any indication that there's rampant discrimination against them. I doubt they have lives free of some type of discrimination, but the contrast between what their lives are like here and what they would be like in the US, is if anything, stark. | |
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roodboi said: I find it very disturbing...
that you're teaching English...do you double check the words in the book before you write them on the board?? because we all know you can't spell for shit... They have a huge creative arts and communication school here too. I think I'm going to end up teaching a photoshop class one day. And of course, I have many pictures of you on my hard drive. It's going to be a good thing. | |
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One thing that I feel is unfair to the koetoeys is that they know fairly young that they are indeed ladyboys.
And this is NOT a 'fashion' statement to them. They really do feel themselves to be a third sex (as do most Thais). To me, this means that wearing the boy's outfit to school is unfair. They should be allowed to wear the girls uniform (dresses/skirts and blouses). It's just my two cents, but the requirement to dress in the uniform of a boy just because their genitalia happens to be male is a bit discriminatory if they are determined to be a true ladyboy. very important addition of NTO edit [Edited 11/16/09 2:54am] | |
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Thanks Imago for answering never know that. Amazing how it varies from country to country Smurf theme song-seriously how many fucking "La Las" can u fit into a dam song
Proud Wendy and Lisa Fancy Lesbian asskisser | |
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toots said: Thanks Imago for answering never know that. Amazing how it varies from country to country
Exactly! It even varies from website to website. The Wallstreet Journal? probably 5% gay. USA Today? I'm willing to bet 10 to 15% gay. Fox News? 2% gay Prince.org? 100% gay (male) and 50% gay overall. | |
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It looks beautiful there. Peaceful. | |
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Imago said: toots said: Thanks Imago for answering never know that. Amazing how it varies from country to country
Exactly! It even varies from website to website. The Wallstreet Journal? probably 5% gay. USA Today? I'm willing to bet 10 to 15% gay. Fox News? 2% gay Prince.org? 100% gay (male) and 50% gay overall. Wait, what! | |
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Imago said: roodboi said: I find it very disturbing...
that you're teaching English...do you double check the words in the book before you write them on the board?? because we all know you can't spell for shit... They have a huge creative arts and communication school here too. I think I'm going to end up teaching a photoshop class one day. And of course, I have many pictures of you on my hard drive. It's going to be a good thing. | |
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roodboi said: Imago said: They have a huge creative arts and communication school here too. I think I'm going to end up teaching a photoshop class one day. And of course, I have many pictures of you on my hard drive. It's going to be a good thing. I had a dream of you last night I need to go find a temple this morning. | |
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Imago said: I’ve been teaching English at a pretty prestigious International University here in Bangkok now for the last week (yes, I’m a total newbie at what I’m doing). To say that I enjoy my work would be nothing more than a gross understatement. I absolutely love what I’m doing for the first time in almost 5 years. Dare I say it, it’s quite possibley the most fun I’ve evey had working at any place, in any position, ever. There is something to be said about having your students wait until after class to hand little gifts just because they like you. Or to have them stand at the door after class saying, “Ajan (the word for teacher/professor), Dan—goodbye…Have a good day.” It’s positively heart warming. It’s healing.
I’ve been ‘volunteered’ to work one day a week in a town about 2 hours outside of Bangkok located on the shores of the Gulf of Thailand not far from the resort location of Pataya and Ban Saeng. It’s a high school which is trying to get a certain percentage of their students in to my University. There’s a ‘handshake’ program in which I’m required to give these students a 10 week intensive English learning program. The students are much less polished than the senior 4th year college students that I lecture to on a normal basis. These students laugh, and joke, and must be told at least 4 or 5 times a day to quite down. But along with this spunk and energy is a certain willingness to volunteer for class activities that is lacking in my more demure and reserved college students. But I’ve noticed something very …unique… at least in my experience… about 2 of my students. I have a few gay students in each class. Thailand is not a country that is openly hostile to gay youth. As a matter of fact, young, gay men in Thailand are self-actualized with regards to their homosexuality long before their western counterparts. By the time a homosexual male is 13 or 14, he may very well already be ‘out’ to his parents and all of his friends. And there is little or no discrimination or harassment that I can tell that takes place with them. They’re simply just gay, and nobody seems to turn it into a moral or political item for posturing. This does not mean, of course, that my gay students are ‘one of the boys’, nor does it mean that they are free of bullying. Boy swill bully each other, and being more feminine than that the other boys is surely going to be an easy attribute to pick on. But the idea that you gang up on and ‘beat the fag’ isn’t part of the Thai mentality. That being said, I have gay students in each of my classes who are ‘out’ with no need to make a statement about it. However, in my high school class that I teach once a week, one of the students is actually a ladyboy. He’s very pale, obviously lightening his skin, and he has the cutest little smile. His mannerisms are typically female. But the poor kid must dress in the boy’s uniform (dark blue shorts, white socks, black shoes, and white button shirt). Boys at the highschool must also not have hair that touches their shoulders—the dress code is very strict. I did a meet-and-greet with the students asking them to give a short speech about themvelves. When I called on him, I said, “And you sir. What is your name?”. The boy in front of him, who is your typical masculine alpha-male type, corrected me and said, “no sir, Ajan Dan… M’am.—He keotoey (their word for ladyboy). The class than laughed and giggled, and the boy looked at me with a shy smile and said, “(his name), ka (the female polite word added to the end of sentences).” I, having seen plenty of ladyboys in Bangkok and being VERY sensitive to making sure my students don’t feel alienated, simply nodded in respect then carried on the conversation about his “likes and dislikes about his classes, which was part of the meet-and-greet speeches.” His friend, who sat beside him, was very feminine too--but not as much so. He was more like a flamboyantly gay man--But someone who definitely identified as a man and not a woman or ladyboy. What completely blew my mind, though I dared not show it, was that everyone in class knew what he was. He felt no need to hide it. He felt no need to apologize or feel ashamed of himself. The alpha-male joked at him, but not in a mean way---he joked at him sort of like you would with a good friend of yours. It was the strangest thing I’ve ever seen here in Thailand—and believe me, I’ve seen a lot of strange things. The dichotomy between the repressed, puritan West, with it’s supposed championing of diversity and human rights, has many many decades if not another century to catch up with Thailand when it comes to acceptance of differences with sexuality. Can you imagine an America where teenage boys don’t have to go through their adolescent years being secretly in love with unrequited objects of affection? Where they don’t feel a need to pray…indeed plead and beg God to let them ‘not be gay.’? Where they don’t need to live in fear of being rejected by family, friends, and society? Where they don’t have to go on to sometimes becoming repressed self-hating Republican senators? (And democratic ones too). I don’t mean to romanticize Thailand’s acceptance of homsexuals—it’s not perfect. Fathers and mothers would still be very disappointed and upset if their sons were gay or transgender. But the level of their disappointment is more about what’s preferred and ‘better for the child’ or family than what is right or wrong. It’s more about being ‘normal’ to them than being moral. I had so many things I wanted to say about this subject, but the ideas and thoughts now escape me. All I can say is that with each passing day, I become more and more in love with my heritage, my motherland, and humankind. I’m finding happiness in the strangest experiences, and I love it more than I can convey in this sloppy post. . [Edited 11/14/09 6:56am] one of your most beautiful writings ever Dan...thanks for sharing it with us | |
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BlackAdder7 said: Imago said: I’ve been teaching English at a pretty prestigious International University here in Bangkok now for the last week (yes, I’m a total newbie at what I’m doing). To say that I enjoy my work would be nothing more than a gross understatement. I absolutely love what I’m doing for the first time in almost 5 years. Dare I say it, it’s quite possibley the most fun I’ve evey had working at any place, in any position, ever. There is something to be said about having your students wait until after class to hand little gifts just because they like you. Or to have them stand at the door after class saying, “Ajan (the word for teacher/professor), Dan—goodbye…Have a good day.” It’s positively heart warming. It’s healing.
I’ve been ‘volunteered’ to work one day a week in a town about 2 hours outside of Bangkok located on the shores of the Gulf of Thailand not far from the resort location of Pataya and Ban Saeng. It’s a high school which is trying to get a certain percentage of their students in to my University. There’s a ‘handshake’ program in which I’m required to give these students a 10 week intensive English learning program. The students are much less polished than the senior 4th year college students that I lecture to on a normal basis. These students laugh, and joke, and must be told at least 4 or 5 times a day to quite down. But along with this spunk and energy is a certain willingness to volunteer for class activities that is lacking in my more demure and reserved college students. But I’ve noticed something very …unique… at least in my experience… about 2 of my students. I have a few gay students in each class. Thailand is not a country that is openly hostile to gay youth. As a matter of fact, young, gay men in Thailand are self-actualized with regards to their homosexuality long before their western counterparts. By the time a homosexual male is 13 or 14, he may very well already be ‘out’ to his parents and all of his friends. And there is little or no discrimination or harassment that I can tell that takes place with them. They’re simply just gay, and nobody seems to turn it into a moral or political item for posturing. This does not mean, of course, that my gay students are ‘one of the boys’, nor does it mean that they are free of bullying. Boy swill bully each other, and being more feminine than that the other boys is surely going to be an easy attribute to pick on. But the idea that you gang up on and ‘beat the fag’ isn’t part of the Thai mentality. That being said, I have gay students in each of my classes who are ‘out’ with no need to make a statement about it. However, in my high school class that I teach once a week, one of the students is actually a ladyboy. He’s very pale, obviously lightening his skin, and he has the cutest little smile. His mannerisms are typically female. But the poor kid must dress in the boy’s uniform (dark blue shorts, white socks, black shoes, and white button shirt). Boys at the highschool must also not have hair that touches their shoulders—the dress code is very strict. I did a meet-and-greet with the students asking them to give a short speech about themvelves. When I called on him, I said, “And you sir. What is your name?”. The boy in front of him, who is your typical masculine alpha-male type, corrected me and said, “no sir, Ajan Dan… M’am.—He keotoey (their word for ladyboy). The class than laughed and giggled, and the boy looked at me with a shy smile and said, “(his name), ka (the female polite word added to the end of sentences).” I, having seen plenty of ladyboys in Bangkok and being VERY sensitive to making sure my students don’t feel alienated, simply nodded in respect then carried on the conversation about his “likes and dislikes about his classes, which was part of the meet-and-greet speeches.” His friend, who sat beside him, was very feminine too--but not as much so. He was more like a flamboyantly gay man--But someone who definitely identified as a man and not a woman or ladyboy. What completely blew my mind, though I dared not show it, was that everyone in class knew what he was. He felt no need to hide it. He felt no need to apologize or feel ashamed of himself. The alpha-male joked at him, but not in a mean way---he joked at him sort of like you would with a good friend of yours. It was the strangest thing I’ve ever seen here in Thailand—and believe me, I’ve seen a lot of strange things. The dichotomy between the repressed, puritan West, with it’s supposed championing of diversity and human rights, has many many decades if not another century to catch up with Thailand when it comes to acceptance of differences with sexuality. Can you imagine an America where teenage boys don’t have to go through their adolescent years being secretly in love with unrequited objects of affection? Where they don’t feel a need to pray…indeed plead and beg God to let them ‘not be gay.’? Where they don’t need to live in fear of being rejected by family, friends, and society? Where they don’t have to go on to sometimes becoming repressed self-hating Republican senators? (And democratic ones too). I don’t mean to romanticize Thailand’s acceptance of homsexuals—it’s not perfect. Fathers and mothers would still be very disappointed and upset if their sons were gay or transgender. But the level of their disappointment is more about what’s preferred and ‘better for the child’ or family than what is right or wrong. It’s more about being ‘normal’ to them than being moral. I had so many things I wanted to say about this subject, but the ideas and thoughts now escape me. All I can say is that with each passing day, I become more and more in love with my heritage, my motherland, and humankind. I’m finding happiness in the strangest experiences, and I love it more than I can convey in this sloppy post. . [Edited 11/14/09 6:56am] one of your most beautiful writings ever Dan...thanks for sharing it with us | |
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