New topic
Printableehuffnsd said: DesireeNevermind said: What's it to anybody? Why is there a thread on it if her happiness is of no consequence? Why aren't you posting this to everyone? No one should care one way or the other according to your logic. When did I tell her she can't undergo gender reassignment surgery? How in the world would I have any say in such a thing? When did I proclaim to be the owner of her identity? I notice that these types of threads (LGBT) are the only threads where everyone can't voice an opinion that goes against the grain and not be chastised for it. Why is that? You wanna play  now? Interesting.
Contributions to the LGBT community or not, I still say she has psychological issues that won't be addressed with surgery. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it and I DARE to have an opinion cuz this aint IRAN or AFGHANISTAN! You want to attack me for it? Go ahead. Says more about you than me. no one is trying to tell you you can't have your opinion. i started this thread for discussion to open minds and maybe get people like you try to think differently. all points of view are welcome so is an open mind. Well apparently some people feel different. But hey, that which does not kill you makes you stronger. I'm still HBIC up in this mofo!  Carry on.
p.s. having an open mind does not mean I change my view to suit someone else's. Just sayin'  | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
DesireeNevermind said: INSATIABLE said: How can you be so adamant in knowing what is right or wrong for anyone other than yourself? Like Eric said, gender is a SOCIAL construct, like race. Human societies over the years have placed importance and value to gender roles. A woman is more 'valuable' and 'attractive', generally, when they act feminine. But traits like femininity and masculinity are not embedded in our DNA. From the moment we're born, we're taught how to act in order to fall in line; into pre-destined categories placed centuries ago in naive, archaic times. If you'd been placed on a desert island after birth and somehow survived to adulthood there on your own, do you think you'd be spending your time applying makeup or doing any other mainstream 'female' activities? How would you define yourself as a person if you didn't know what the difference was between male and female? Do you exist as an entity any deeper than the label your genitals gave you? I will say it again until somebody starts paying attention and getting out of their head for a minute. I am not adamant about right or wrong here since there is no question of right or wrong. I voiced an opinion which is my right to do so. This is General Discussion right? Did the LGBT community become right wing nazis overnight? Is this perez.org or Prince.org? Gender is not a social construct it is very real and we are all the product of a union between the male and female genders. Gender roles however, are a construct and have developed over thousands of years. Do roles change? Sure? So what does that matter with regard to a 40 year old woman who is daughter to one of the most liberal women on the planet and who has understood and interacted with the LGBT community for decades, who has had various outlets to express herself and help others, and who has had access to an abundance of resouces to do this surgery earlier in life. Remember she's had weight issues, drug issues, relationship issues etc. With that said, I think and am of the opinion that the surgery may be a bandaid for something more serious and psychological. And shit if you disagree then you just disagree! This aint WWIII for crissake.  Listen, it's going to be okay. Take a breather. And we're not all of the LGBT community. 
You didn't answer any of my questions up there, btw. How is gender real when a person can be born with a penis and a vagina? Do you really think gender matters any way other than on a physical basis? Should gender DEFINE us? at birth? Should we all try our best to 'fall in line' so as to avoid being screwed in the head, as you're claiming? You stand by the claim that an individual must be wrong in the head to seek gender reassignment. I obviously disagree. As for the timing/age: why is that an issue? Would it make more sense to you for the decision to have come at age 20 instead? Would it be too soon at that age instead? It's obviously a decision that this individual came to after lengthy thought. And it's been mentioned before: in order to have this surgery, heavy psychological involvement is required beforehand in order to determine the individual is sure of their decision. Christ. yo > you [Edited 6/11/09 16:22pm] Oh shit, my hat done fell off | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
NDRU said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: It's your tone. Gays hate vinegar! I think you're right. I admitted I don't understand it, and nobody jumped all over me for saying she'll go to hell for doing it. Because I said it nicely.  you put it to melody  2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Sowhat said: DesireeNevermind said: .... Remember she's had weight issues, drug issues, relationship issues etc. With that said, I think and am of the opinion that the surgery may be a bandaid for something more serious and psychological.....
Just wondering if maybe she had weight and drug and relationship issues BECAUSE she was unhappy being physically a "woman" and by having the surgery alleviates all those other issues? hit it on the head. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
For people who don't understand what Chaz Bono going through here's a simple explanation. Remember that Linsay Lohan movie Freaky Friday ? She switched bodies for a day with her Mom played by Jamie Lee Curtis. Well imagine instead of switching bodies with her Mom, she switched bodies with her Dad , which could have been portrayed by that hairy beast, actor Robin Williams. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: DesireeNevermind said: I will say it again until somebody starts paying attention and getting out of their head for a minute. I am not adamant about right or wrong here since there is no question of right or wrong. I voiced an opinion which is my right to do so. This is General Discussion right? Did the LGBT community become right wing nazis overnight? Is this perez.org or Prince.org? Gender is not a social construct it is very real and we are all the product of a union between the male and female genders. Gender roles however, are a construct and have developed over thousands of years. Do roles change? Sure? So what does that matter with regard to a 40 year old woman who is daughter to one of the most liberal women on the planet and who has understood and interacted with the LGBT community for decades, who has had various outlets to express herself and help others, and who has had access to an abundance of resouces to do this surgery earlier in life. Remember she's had weight issues, drug issues, relationship issues etc. With that said, I think and am of the opinion that the surgery may be a bandaid for something more serious and psychological. And shit if you disagree then you just disagree! This aint WWIII for crissake. It's your tone. Gays hate vinegar! honey if you think that's vinegar then you need to get out more. or maybe not. and btw, everyone up in here has a TONE! But with my post, I never said I hated anybody, never got sexist or racial with anybody. This is why you can't ever have a civil thread in GD with regard to newsworthy items. Somebody will always take it to another level. Someone will always think "you disagree with me so you must hate me and I want to attack". Fucking childish and retarded IMO | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
DesireeNevermind said: ehuffnsd said: biological sex does not equal gender It may not EQUAL it but you would not have gender without the biological meaning first and therefore Gender is real as I stated above and it is associated in most circles and defined by most people as either male or female. Gay doesn't equal homosexual but we have come to define it as such. Gender is not real. as Eric i'm a boy most of the time play male gender roles, some question whether giving a bj is a male gender role. as Sister Iona i act and dress feminine and am refered to in female pronouns i've had people confuse me as a woman until they get a closer look. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
DesireeNevermind said: ehuffnsd said: no one is trying to tell you you can't have your opinion. i started this thread for discussion to open minds and maybe get people like you try to think differently. all points of view are welcome so is an open mind. Well apparently some people feel different. But hey, that which does not kill you makes you stronger. I'm still HBIC up in this mofo! Carry on.
p.s. having an open mind does not mean I change my view to suit someone else's. Just sayin' i'm HBIC in charge i can very easily shut this whole discussion if i wanted to. remember that. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
DesireeNevermind said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: It's your tone. Gays hate vinegar! honey if you think that's vinegar then you need to get out more. or maybe not. and btw, everyone up in here has a TONE! But with my post, I never said I hated anybody, never got sexist or racial with anybody. This is why you can't ever have a civil thread in GD with regard to newsworthy items. Somebody will always take it to another level. Someone will always think "you disagree with me so you must hate me and I want to attack". Fucking childish and retarded IMO I was finna say they need to visit one of them Bria threads.
And this phenomenon is not unique to GD, trust.  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
gender is just a socially constructed as race is.....
just 50 years ago jews, italians, spaniards, southern and eastern europeans weren't even considered "white" go to brasil or the dominican republic and a person with a mediumdark skin tone can claim white..... in south africa if you were a black american you would be called capecoloured. similar thing with gender, whats appropriate changes all the time 200 or more years ago it was totally acceptable for men to go out in broad daylight in america in wigs and high knickerbockers and those were considered handsome gentlemen. men can wear pink nowadays in american society but it depends on how they wear it, they can wear their hair long, but it depends on how they wear it.thats why people are saying that gender is a social construction like race, its not biology, it ebbs and flows with the society of the time and the attitudes. if this wwere 50 years ago two men holding hands or a lesbian couple wouldve been called mentally derranged or arrested, same for interracial couples, etc etc etc learn some history at least..... | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
DesireeNevermind said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: It's your tone. Gays hate vinegar! honey if you think that's vinegar then you need to get out more. or maybe not. and btw, everyone up in here has a TONE! But with my post, I never said I hated anybody, never got sexist or racial with anybody. This is why you can't ever have a civil thread in GD with regard to newsworthy items. Somebody will always take it to another level. Someone will always think "you disagree with me so you must hate me and I want to attack". Fucking childish and retarded IMO no it's the way debate happens. if you click on the link i posted on page two or refer to http://prince.org/msg/105/310058 i think you'd understand that debate has to happen. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SCNDLS said: DesireeNevermind said: I will say it again until somebody starts paying attention and getting out of their head for a minute. I am not adamant about right or wrong here since there is no question of right or wrong. I voiced an opinion which is my right to do so. This is General Discussion right? Did the LGBT community become right wing nazis overnight? Is this perez.org or Prince.org? Gender is not a social construct it is very real and we are all the product of a union between the male and female genders. Gender roles however, are a construct and have developed over thousands of years. Do roles change? Sure? So what does that matter with regard to a 40 year old woman who is daughter to one of the most liberal women on the planet and who has understood and interacted with the LGBT community for decades, who has had various outlets to express herself and help others, and who has had access to an abundance of resouces to do this surgery earlier in life. Remember she's had weight issues, drug issues, relationship issues etc. With that said, I think and am of the opinion that the surgery may be a bandaid for something more serious and psychological. And shit if you disagree then you just disagree! This aint WWIII for crissake. So, are you saying that this would make more sense to you if she had done this earlier in her life?  Not only that, but if she didn't have issues with Cher as a mother, drugs, eating disorders all while being a counselor, activist and role model then yes it would make more sense to me - TO ME- not every freakin person on the planet. Something does not compute. Plus, it is actually possible to have some psych issues and mask them. But oh noooo, not on this thread. BTW thanks for bothering to ask me a question about my opinion and posts. Shit, I feel like its after school and I'm on my way home about to fight the ghetto girl gang all cuz I got on the latest pair of guess jeans and my hair looks cute. Unfucking believable.  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
drifit said: gender is just a socially constructed as race is.....
just 50 years ago jews, italians, spaniards, southern and eastern europeans weren't even considered "white" go to brasil or the dominican republic and a person with a mediumdark skin tone can claim white..... in south africa if you were a black american you would be called capecoloured. similar thing with gender, whats appropriate changes all the time 200 or more years ago it was totally acceptable for men to go out in broad daylight in america in wigs and high knickerbockers and those were considered handsome gentlemen. men can wear pink nowadays in american society but it depends on how they wear it, they can wear their hair long, but it depends on how they wear it.thats why people are saying that gender is a social construction like race, its not biology, it ebbs and flows with the society of the time and the attitudes. if this wwere 50 years ago two men holding hands or a lesbian couple wouldve been called mentally derranged or arrested, same for interracial couples, etc etc etc learn some history at least..... Pink was considered a male color until WWII. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
ehuffnsd said: DesireeNevermind said: Well apparently some people feel different. But hey, that which does not kill you makes you stronger. I'm still HBIC up in this mofo! Carry on.
p.s. having an open mind does not mean I change my view to suit someone else's. Just sayin' i'm HBIC in charge i can very easily shut this whole discussion if i wanted to. remember that. well if you think and say so then shut it Cletus! I will not  or croak over it. Day here and gone tomorrow so says my gay boyfriend.
 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
HBIC???? Highest Bitch in Charge? 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: HBIC???? Highest Bitch in Charge?
Head Bitch in Charge it comes from I Love New York or New York Goes to hollywood i can't remember which one. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
DesireeNevermind said: SCNDLS said: So, are you saying that this would make more sense to you if she had done this earlier in her life? Not only that, but if she didn't have issues with Cher as a mother, drugs, eating disorders all while being a counselor, activist and role model then yes it would make more sense to me - TO ME- not every freakin person on the planet. Something does not compute. Plus, it is actually possible to have some psych issues and mask them. But oh noooo, not on this thread. BTW thanks for bothering to ask me a question about my opinion and posts. Shit, I feel like its after school and I'm on my way home about to fight the ghetto girl gang all cuz I got on the latest pair of guess jeans and my hair looks cute. Unfucking believable. I can dig that. Now, I certainly have no idea about what she's been up to cuz Chaz ain't on my radar like that. But what if she's been expressing this desire for gender reassignment and just never made it public. Would that, even within the context of her other "dysfunction" also make more "sense" to you? In other words, are there instances where you think this "transition" is a healthy occurrence?
BTW, and I think I'ma kick your ass after 7th period cuz you think you cute.  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SCNDLS said: DesireeNevermind said: Not only that, but if she didn't have issues with Cher as a mother, drugs, eating disorders all while being a counselor, activist and role model then yes it would make more sense to me - TO ME- not every freakin person on the planet. Something does not compute. Plus, it is actually possible to have some psych issues and mask them. But oh noooo, not on this thread. BTW thanks for bothering to ask me a question about my opinion and posts. Shit, I feel like its after school and I'm on my way home about to fight the ghetto girl gang all cuz I got on the latest pair of guess jeans and my hair looks cute. Unfucking believable. I can dig that. Now, I certainly have no idea about what she's been up to cuz Chaz ain't on my radar like that. But what if she's been expressing this desire for gender reassignment and just never made it public. Would that, even within the context of her other "dysfunction" also make more "sense" to you? In other words, are there instances where you think this "transition" is a healthy occurrence?
BTW, and I think I'ma kick your ass after 7th period cuz you think you cute. Get her Oakland! 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: SCNDLS said: I can dig that. Now, I certainly have no idea about what she's been up to cuz Chaz ain't on my radar like that. But what if she's been expressing this desire for gender reassignment and just never made it public. Would that, even within the context of her other "dysfunction" also make more "sense" to you? In other words, are there instances where you think this "transition" is a healthy occurrence?
BTW, and I think I'ma kick your ass after 7th period cuz you think you cute. Get her Oakland! Damn them girls IS rough!  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I'm sure Chez has thought about this for a long, long, long time. This is major surgery and I'm sure his mom is worried about the possible complications. If this makes Chez happy and/or brings his life full cycle to where he knows it should be, his decision and wishes should be respected. I wish him well. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
ehuffnsd said: drifit said: gender is just a socially constructed as race is.....
just 50 years ago jews, italians, spaniards, southern and eastern europeans weren't even considered "white" go to brasil or the dominican republic and a person with a mediumdark skin tone can claim white..... in south africa if you were a black american you would be called capecoloured. similar thing with gender, whats appropriate changes all the time 200 or more years ago it was totally acceptable for men to go out in broad daylight in america in wigs and high knickerbockers and those were considered handsome gentlemen. men can wear pink nowadays in american society but it depends on how they wear it, they can wear their hair long, but it depends on how they wear it.thats why people are saying that gender is a social construction like race, its not biology, it ebbs and flows with the society of the time and the attitudes. if this wwere 50 years ago two men holding hands or a lesbian couple wouldve been called mentally derranged or arrested, same for interracial couples, etc etc etc learn some history at least..... Pink was considered a male color until WWII. you are talking european perspectives with regards to men and wigs and american perspective with regard to same sex couples being called mentally derranged. fashion is it's own animal. in some countries women wear burkas or did we 4get the concept and definition of race as you said varies from country to country but it still exists as a concept so I don't get your point. are you saying it doesn't exist or it does? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
DesireeNevermind said: ehuffnsd said: Pink was considered a male color until WWII. you are talking european perspectives with regards to men and wigs and american perspective with regard to same sex couples being called mentally derranged. fashion is it's own animal. in some countries women wear burkas or did we 4get the concept and definition of race as you said varies from country to country but it still exists as a concept so I don't get your point. are you saying it doesn't exist or it does? no he's talking about our founding fathers all wearing white wigs. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Desire2006 said: This world is getting sicker and sicker!!!! Why cant people be content with who and what they are since birth????
 Were you born a dumbass or did you transition into one? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
johnart said: Desire2006 said: This world is getting sicker and sicker!!!! Why cant people be content with who and what they are since birth????
Were you born a dumbass or did you transition into one? keep it civil. name calling, even though she has done it to me, should not occur. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Well i have not read the entire thread..but if she is happy then GREAT!!! and i am sure she has the support of her mother!
  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
ehuffnsd said: johnart said: Were you born a dumbass or did you transition into one? keep it civil. name calling, even though she has done it to me, should not occur. That is civil. I haven't even read the entire thread yet. It was a dumbass thing to say. But you are right E. [Edited 6/11/09 17:01pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SCNDLS said: DesireeNevermind said: Not only that, but if she didn't have issues with Cher as a mother, drugs, eating disorders all while being a counselor, activist and role model then yes it would make more sense to me - TO ME- not every freakin person on the planet. Something does not compute. Plus, it is actually possible to have some psych issues and mask them. But oh noooo, not on this thread. BTW thanks for bothering to ask me a question about my opinion and posts. Shit, I feel like its after school and I'm on my way home about to fight the ghetto girl gang all cuz I got on the latest pair of guess jeans and my hair looks cute. Unfucking believable. I can dig that. Now, I certainly have no idea about what she's been up to cuz Chaz ain't on my radar like that. But what if she's been expressing this desire for gender reassignment and just never made it public. Would that, even within the context of her other "dysfunction" also make more "sense" to you? In other words, are there instances where you think this "transition" is a healthy occurrence?
BTW, and I think I'ma kick your ass after 7th period cuz you think you cute. you won't kick my ass...you will beg me to introduce you to my brothers and cousins who are FOINE!  And you will have to pay me for the contact cuz I fancy myself a matchmaker/pimp. 
And yes there are instances where transtion is unhealthy which is why some people transition back. Other people have been known to start the surgery but not go through with it. there are a multitude of reasons why someone would undergo it and I think when you have had and are possibly still dealing with emotional and psych issues the last thing you need to be doing is something as serious to your physical health as this kind of surgery. Only time will tell. But in the mean time...it still sounds mental TO ME. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
ehuffnsd said: DesireeNevermind said: you are talking european perspectives with regards to men and wigs and american perspective with regard to same sex couples being called mentally derranged. fashion is it's own animal. in some countries women wear burkas or did we 4get the concept and definition of race as you said varies from country to country but it still exists as a concept so I don't get your point. are you saying it doesn't exist or it does? no he's talking about our founding fathers all wearing white wigs. okay, so how does that impact Chastity Bono? this thread is all over the place. I want my money!!! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
DesireeNevermind said: SCNDLS said: I can dig that. Now, I certainly have no idea about what she's been up to cuz Chaz ain't on my radar like that. But what if she's been expressing this desire for gender reassignment and just never made it public. Would that, even within the context of her other "dysfunction" also make more "sense" to you? In other words, are there instances where you think this "transition" is a healthy occurrence?
BTW, and I think I'ma kick your ass after 7th period cuz you think you cute. you won't kick my ass...you will beg me to introduce you to my brothers and cousins who are FOINE! And you will have to pay me for the contact cuz I fancy myself a matchmaker/pimp.
And yes there are instances where transtion is unhealthy which is why some people transition back. Other people have been known to start the surgery but not go through with it. there are a multitude of reasons why someone would undergo it and I think when you have had and are possibly still dealing with emotional and psych issues the last thing you need to be doing is something as serious to your physical health as this kind of surgery. Only time will tell. But in the mean time...it still sounds mental TO ME. Makes sense to me. Okay, so how 'bout I'ma kick ya ass if you DON'T introduce me to your foine brothers and cousins???? After I get the hook up tho, I'll be sure to break you off.  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SCNDLS said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Get her Oakland! Damn them girls IS rough! Gotta make sure none of my mens are downlows from Oakland 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |