UCantHavaDaMango said:

You're way more likely to have an accident with that gun in the home than have anyone attempt to rob you. It's a shame this culture of fear has perpetuated as far as it has.

CarrieMpls said:

I guess moral in the sense of what's right and wrong in that situation. I feel it would be wrong of me to do nothing to protect my child.
positive...yeah..that's a tough one because it's not a positive situation to find yourself in to begin with but entirely possible. So to me, the negative would be to do nothing, loose my child or worse yet witness horrible offenses to them and also their death or the positive, shoot the criminal to save my child. It's all perspective I guess.
I know you'll probably disagree with hunting being a positive but to me that is totally a positive. My husband hunts whitetail deer, matter of fact we're probably having venison for dinner tonight

CarrieMpls said:

I can imagine how that could actually deter crime. I highly doubt someone will ever attempt to rob my husband.

CarrieMpls said:

No, I don't really want that but my theory sounds just as ridiculous as current gun laws do.

UCantHavaDaMango said:

Nope, not in IL.

CarrieMpls said:

That's why I think guns should be locked up and kept away from kids. Also, parents need to teach their kids about the dangers of guns. They should not be glamorized, or made to look edgy or cool. My boyfriend hates all of the violent movies geared towards kids because they promote an unhealthy view of guns.

Stymie said:

I don't know the laws in other states but in NH (live free or die baby )
everyone else (unless a convicted felon) CAN walk down the street with a gun.
archaic phrase or not it's still true in many states.

Stymie said:

gotcha.

Shorty said:

So your husband advertises that he owns a gun to anyone and everyone? How do you think that (specifically) his owning guns makes him not a target?

CarrieMpls said:

PARENTING PARANOIA-

A child is roughly 100 times more likely to die in a swimming accident than in gunplay:



In a given year, there is one drowning of a child for every 11,000 residential pools in the United States. (In a country with 6 million pools, this means that roughly 550 children under the age of ten drown each year.) Meanwhile, there is 1 child killed by a gun for every 1 millionplus guns. (In a country with an estimated 200 million guns, this means that roughly 175 children under ten die each year from guns.) The likelihood of death by pool (1 in 11,000) versus death by gun (1 in 1 million-plus) isn't even close.

Source:

An online excerpt from chapter 5 of Freakonomics : A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything, by Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner.

Shorty said:

How do people in countries where there are no guns in the home, protect themselves and their children?

CarrieMpls said:

no he doesn't advertise it but (as I said) here in NH you do not need a permit to carry a NON-concealed weapon...so it is on his side in plain view.

LleeLlee said:

I don't know...with a kitchen knife?

Shorty said:

There are 200 million legally owned guns in this country? Other than my ex, I don't know a single person who owns a gun.

Stymie said:

I bet you do and don't even know it

Shorty said:

Maybe, but I understand why people own pools. I still don't understand why people own guns.

Not to mention this is a completely different comparison. What I'm saying is, if you have a gun in your home you are much more likely to have an accident and harm someone than actually have a rapist/abductor/murderer break in and have a perceived need to defend your life in the first place. I'd have to find the stats, but that's my guess.
[Edited 1/2/07 11:34am]

Shorty said:

So you feel he doesn't get robbed because he straps a gun to himself in plain view. Is that how you feel we should all protect ourselves?

Shorty said:

Good and I prefer it that way.

Shorty said:

How about valuing life? And not placing people in the position where taking a life is so easy. Killing is not a choice, you dont do it. Taking a gun away from someone (especially somebody who doesn't give a shit about others lives) takes that power away from them and the fear away from everyone else.

LleeLlee said:

Here's the short version of something that happened to me when I was in college:

When I was in my early 20s a college friend and I went to a housewarming party for some friends of ours who had just bought a house in the city. My friend Laura and I were leaving it was late and my car was parked around the corner (the house was on the corner of the block) and I saw a kid coming toward me with something in his hands...I thought it was an umbrella, but it turned out to be a shotgun. He and his friend (they were about 15, I'd say) robbed Laura and I at shotgun point. They took what they could - purses and jewlery included - they were asking where our "beepers" were and when I told them we didn't have them one started yelling "the bitch is lying...plug her" and told us to turn around and start walking the other way. I thought they were going to shoot us in the back of the head.
We walked back into the house and called the police and they never came. We had to go to the precinct and make a report.
I don't believe for a minute that if I had a gun I would have been able to pull it on them (they had theirs pointed at my face) and we all probably would have ended up dead.

CarrieMpls said:

I didn't say I feel he doesn't get robbed because he carries a gun....but I did say I doubt anyone will attempt it because of that.
and yeah...maybe we should. I don't think just because people have a gun means they are going to use it. My husband is not trigger happy, just waiting to shoot someone just because he has one available...and I feel most of us law abiding citizens would be the same way....and it would be used as more of a derterent and a LAST resort.

LleeLlee said:

It all starts in our hearts and minds. I think that is where America's gun problems come from. Our entertainment is saturated with violence, and images of guns being used to gain power. A lot of those rap videos don't help either. It warps kids' minds. Then, the kids grow up.

If we didn't have deranged individuals running around with guns, we'd all be safer, obviously. Award winning marksmen, and those who hunt to feed their families aren't the ones to worry about.

LleeLlee said:

well sure if we're living in lollipop land maybe we'd all just value life and no one would die...but I sure hope you're not trying to say that there are no criminals in the UK there fore homes in the UK with out guns don't need to protect themselves....cause we know that's just not true.

"Gun crime trebles as weapons and drugs flood British cities
By David Bamber, Home Affairs Correspondent
Last Updated: 12:36am GMT 24/02/2002



GUN crime has almost trebled in London during the past year and is soaring in other British cities, according to Home Office figures obtained by The Telegraph.

Police chiefs fear that Britain is witnessing the kind of cocaine-fuelled violence that burst upon American cities in the 1980s. Cocaine, particularly from Jamaica, now floods into Britain, while the availability of weapons - many of them from eastern Europe - is also increasing.

Detectives in London say that the illegal importation of guns started after the end of the Bosnia conflict and that they are changing hands for as little as £200. During the 10 months to January 31, there were 939 crimes involving firearms in the Metropolitan Police area compared with 322 in the 10 months to the end of January, 2001 - an almost three-fold increase.

In Merseyside there were 57 shootings during the 12 months to last December compared with 15 in the same period the year before. Greater Manchester also recorded a 23 per cent increase in gun crime and there have been rises in Nottinghamshire, Avon and Somerset, West Yorkshire and the Northumbria Police area which covers Newcastle.

Gun crimes during the first 10 months of the annual period have trebled in most of the urban areas which have so far submitted statistics to the Home Office. Sir John Stevens, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, said gun gangs were spreading across the country whereas, until recently, they were confined to a handful of London boroughs.

Sir John said: "We have to stem the large number of guns coming in. We know you can buy a gun in London for £200 to £300, and that's frightening. The price of hiring or buying a gun has come down because there are more guns circulating. We are having success; we are taking out about 600 guns a year."

The new gun crime figures also show that handgun crime has soared past levels last seen before the Dunblane massacre of 1996 and the ban on the weapons that followed. The ban on ownership of handguns was introduced in 1997, the year after Thomas Hamilton, an amateur shooting enthusiast, shot dead 16 schoolchildren, their teacher and himself in Dunblane, Perthshire.

It was hoped that the measure would reduce the number of handguns available to criminals. According to internal Home Office statistics, however, handgun crime is now at its highest since 1993."

LleeLlee said:

Excellent point. In the States it's a matter of changing a whole culture though. People have guns to protect themselves from other people who have guns, who protect themselves from other people who have guns etc etc etc. It's difficult to break the downward spiral unless the government puts a foot down and creates much, much stricter gun control laws. Only after that would you be able to see a very slow change start to take place.

applekisses said:

Oh my goodness! I'm so sorry that happened to you, and I'm glad you weren't hurt. I would have been too scared to pull a gun on someone pointing one in my face too. It takes a lot of training to be able to do that. That's why I think that anyone who owns a hand gun should be trained in how to use it. An inexperienced person with a gun is far more dangerous than not having one at all.

applekisses said:

that's really terrible and I'm sorry you ever had to go through that. Like I said before, just because someone may have a gun for protection does not mean that have to pull it out and use it.
I'm glad you and your friend were not hurt.

Shorty said:

Not a fair point, Shorty. Guns make into the hands of criminals because non-criminal, law abiding citizens put them there. What they should do is make it so guns have a way to be traced to whomever oringally bought it so that person can be held accountable for the gun crime as well.

applekisses said:

Thats awful, A terrible thing to go through. Crime is horrendous enough without adding guns into the equation. I'm sorry.

applekisses said:

I am so sorry Andrea.

applekisses said:

God you were lucky!