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Reply #180 posted 02/08/18 4:16am

ThatWhiteDude

Just a question: Are you mad at White people or people of color Like Bruno Mars doing RnB, or are you mad at the industry promoting them different than black RnB acts?

Because, as I see it, the Problem is the industry. Old white people rule it, don't they? They think a White RnB Artist is somethin' special and there are still people who think that the people identify more with White acts. It started with Elvis, sure He was talented, but nothing Special, because 10+ black people could've done the Same. But it wasn't His fault that the industry is racist and doesn't promote black Like they do with whites.

Now, what do you want: White people and people of color Like Bruno Restrick to only make a certain Type of music, you know: Pop for the whites reggeaton for Puerto Ricans and so on. Or do you want that everybody does the music He loves with equal chances to be heard by a wide audience? What I wanna say is this: Music itself shouldn't be divided, it should be shared with everyone." But we need to change the industry by boycotting their racism. Boycott the Grammys for example.

I think EVERY Artist should boycott the racist industry, it's about time Younger generations take it over to Stop that racist nonesense, that only divides us even more.
[Edited 2/8/18 6:16am]
"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
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Reply #181 posted 02/08/18 8:13am

paisleypark4

avatar

ThatWhiteDude said:

Just a question: Are you mad at White people or people of color Like Bruno Mars doing RnB, or are you mad at the industry promoting them different than black RnB acts? Because, as I see it, the Problem is the industry. Old white people rule it, don't they? They think a White RnB Artist is somethin' special and there are still people who think that the people identify more with White acts. It started with Elvis, sure He was talented, but nothing Special, because 10+ black people could've done the Same. But it wasn't His fault that the industry is racist and doesn't promote black Like they do with whites. Now, what do you want: White people and people of color Like Bruno Restrick to only make a certain Type of music, you know: Pop for the whites reggeaton for Puerto Ricans and so on. Or do you want that everybody does the music He loves with equal chances to be heard by a wide audience? What I wanna say is this: Music itself shouldn't be divided, it should be shared with everyone." But we need to change the industry by boycotting their racism. Boycott the Grammys for example. I think EVERY Artist should boycott the racist industry, it's about time Younger generations take it over to Stop that racist nonesense, that only divides us even more. [Edited 2/8/18 6:16am]

nod

clapping

Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
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Reply #182 posted 02/08/18 9:10am

namepeace

ThatWhiteDude said:

Just a question: Are you mad at White people or people of color Like Bruno Mars doing RnB, or are you mad at the industry promoting them different than black RnB acts?

Because, as I see it, the Problem is the industry. Old white people rule it, don't they? They think a White RnB Artist is somethin' special and there are still people who think that the people identify more with White acts. It started with Elvis, sure He was talented, but nothing Special, because 10+ black people could've done the Same. But it wasn't His fault that the industry is racist and doesn't promote black Like they do with whites.

I said last week (Reply #60) that the lack of black/minority artists being top line traditional R&B acts is an indictment of the industry, whose history with white artists playing "black music" is well known.

But I also think some of us lose sight of the fact that that kind of music was in its heyday 30-40 years ago. The small-p pop audiences aren't craving those sounds any more than, say, Gen-Xers were saying "nobody plays swing anymore!" in the 1980's. Straight ahead R&B has some age on it, and pop music is youth driven.


Now, what do you want: White people and people of color Like Bruno Restrick to only make a certain Type of music, you know: Pop for the whites reggeaton for Puerto Ricans and so on. Or do you want that everybody does the music He loves with equal chances to be heard by a wide audience? What I wanna say is this: Music itself shouldn't be divided, it should be shared with everyone."

But we need to change the industry by boycotting their racism. Boycott the Grammys for example.

I think EVERY Artist should boycott the racist industry, it's about time Younger generations take it over to Stop that racist nonesense, that only divides us even more.


The resentment really isn't about the color of the artists. I think it relates to white artists getting a much larger stage to play the same music artists of color play as well or better. Taking this R&B argument I don't discriminate in terms of the color of the artist -- if Remy Shand or Mayer Hawthorne or Moonchild makes a good R&B record. The larger problem is the demand for R&B. Bruno fits a neat niche, almost a novelty niche, which at least keeps the music on the radar.

I suggest another approach -- that audiences support more independent or off the radar artists of color outside the confines of the industry. If we want good music, we need to find it, especially since artists of color who don't fit the radio model of hitmakers, or playing more traditional R&B styles, won't get real industry push.

[Edited 2/8/18 9:12am]

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #183 posted 02/08/18 9:35am

ThatWhiteDude

namepeace said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Just a question: Are you mad at White people or people of color Like Bruno Mars doing RnB, or are you mad at the industry promoting them different than black RnB acts?

Because, as I see it, the Problem is the industry. Old white people rule it, don't they? They think a White RnB Artist is somethin' special and there are still people who think that the people identify more with White acts. It started with Elvis, sure He was talented, but nothing Special, because 10+ black people could've done the Same. But it wasn't His fault that the industry is racist and doesn't promote black Like they do with whites.

I said last week (Reply #60) that the lack of black/minority artists being top line traditional R&B acts is an indictment of the industry, whose history with white artists playing "black music" is well known.

But I also think some of us lose sight of the fact that that kind of music was in its heyday 30-40 years ago. The small-p pop audiences aren't craving those sounds any more than, say, Gen-Xers were saying "nobody plays swing anymore!" in the 1980's. Straight ahead R&B has some age on it, and pop music is youth driven.


Now, what do you want: White people and people of color Like Bruno Restrick to only make a certain Type of music, you know: Pop for the whites reggeaton for Puerto Ricans and so on. Or do you want that everybody does the music He loves with equal chances to be heard by a wide audience? What I wanna say is this: Music itself shouldn't be divided, it should be shared with everyone."

But we need to change the industry by boycotting their racism. Boycott the Grammys for example.

I think EVERY Artist should boycott the racist industry, it's about time Younger generations take it over to Stop that racist nonesense, that only divides us even more.


The resentment really isn't about the color of the artists. I think it relates to white artists getting a much larger stage to play the same music artists of color play as well or better. Taking this R&B argument I don't discriminate in terms of the color of the artist -- if Remy Shand or Mayer Hawthorne or Moonchild makes a good R&B record. The larger problem is the demand for R&B. Bruno fits a neat niche, almost a novelty niche, which at least keeps the music on the radar.

I suggest another approach -- that audiences support more independent or off the radar artists of color outside the confines of the industry. If we want good music, we need to find it, especially since artists of color who don't fit the radio model of hitmakers, or playing more traditional R&B styles, won't get real industry push.

[Edited 2/8/18 9:12am]

Very good points, namepeace nod that was my point too. It's not about an individual, it's about the industry that doesn't really support black people, or people of color like Bruno Mars, they way they do with white artists. And that is the problem.

But I must also state, that there aren't many white people who speak up about the problem. And I think there's the problem some black people have with white people. It really seems like, some white artists apropriate black culture but don't aknowledge their privilege that comes with being a white artist doing the exact same as a black artist and get more recognition because of their skin color. So I get why some black people scream "culture vulture".

Jesse Williams' speach at the BET awards was great, but only black people seemed to appreciate it, while white people felt offended. And this is another problem, some white people just can't accept that they have to stand up too. You say you love the black culture? Then be an ally and be a part of the movement against a racist industry who opresses the people of the culture you claim to admire.

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
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Reply #184 posted 02/08/18 11:09am

Shawy89

avatar

SMH how the hell is the music industry "wiping out" black artists?

Literally, all outlets of music journalism from NME to Pitchfork to Billboard, to AP, to A&Rs and industry insiders, work day and night to push "new artists". And for the last 3 years (2015/16/2017) the majority of those artists have been black. Naturally because they've been the most consistent & the ones who made more interesting work.

Chance the Rapper

Khalid
The Weeknd

Anderson. Paak

Lil Uzi Vert and the rest of the Lils

Kelela
Blood Orange
Solange
Jidenna
SZA
Tinashe

And I never ever could understand how the fuck sane people do this: When Esperanza Spalding, who is wonderful, and black, suddenly gets nominated for BNA and wins it against Justin Bieber, Drake... Everyone is happy and just proud. But when Beck, who is also wonderful, but white, wins against Beyoncé, everyone goes "GRAMMYs are racist". This is a sickness. They forget all the times artists like Stevie Wonder, Roberta Flack, MJ, Lionel Richie, Alicia Keys, Kanye, even Beyoncé, who have tons of Grammys... maybe in the end it's about a combination of artistry, commercial appeal and TALENT. Sometimes it's not about racism. In this case (GRAMMYs), there's a Blue Ribbon pannel (top 1% of the top 1% of the NARAS) who gets to decide who wins AOTY. Just AOTY. SOTY and ROTY are voted like the rest of the categories.

Now, when choosing AOTY, the Blue Pannel takes into account:

  1. How the album/era shaped the US and to a lesser extent the world in terms of culture, moments, popularity..

  2. How veteran/influential an artist has been for the music industry, who has been long undershadowed.

  3. How the genre of music is never important, because music is not just pop, not just hip hop, not just R&B, you can make any type of good music, and still be welcomed.

AOTY to Bruno: Entertaining the average person who doesn't care about politics and sees good pop music as a way to escape

AOTY to Adele: Era/Album were WAY TOO BIG

AOTY to Taylor: Era/Album were BIG

AOTY to Beck: Veteran case

AOTY to Daft Punk: Era/Album were big + Veteran case

AOTY to Mumford & Sons: Whatever genre you do we'll still love you [Folk rock...]


AOTY to Adele: Era/Album were BIG

AOTY to Arcade Fire: Whatever genre you do we'll still love you [Indie rock]

You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger. - Buddha
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Reply #185 posted 02/08/18 1:15pm

Scorp

Scorp said:



laurarichardson said:




Shawy89 said:


Facts. Bruno is half Puerto-Rican and half Filipino, both his parents immigrated to Hawaii before he was born. He's a person of color, just like Kendrick or Jay Z or Gambino.



Remember the outrage when Taylor Swift and Adele won over Kendrick and Beyoncé? It was clear everyone wanted a POC to win, except when it's Bruno Mars, they're gonna use another argument to justify their dissatisfaction.



Why doesn't the media declare this as a win for an under-shadowed community in America like the Latin-Asians instead of putting the guy on the spot for being a "safe pop star". Smh, I barely understand this, all the R&B legends are congragulating the man while the hip-hop community is over him.





The Hip-Hop community cannot compete with real RnB. The old heads are congratualating him for bring our music back and showing that it can sell all over the world.



The Hip-Hop can people can eat a dick. As far as everyone else they just cannot stand to see a person of color and RnB music at the top. Look at what losers like Bon Iver and Fleet Foxes are saying.


-----


What the fuck is wrong with the GAP Band? It is that same old rock n roll snob bullshit.



http://www.nme.com/news/music/fleet-foxes-robin-pecknold-also-pretty-unhappy-bruno-mars-grammys-win-2231421


In capturing an article about the Grammys for an Instagram story, Pecknold wrote: ““Aside from Kendrick / SZA / Jay Z nothing that was nominated was very good in my opinion, but to give it all to Toys R Us Gap Band is pretty ridic.”


He later added: “Nothing was very good. To people asking me ‘what about x album,’ didn’t really listen to any mentioned tbh.”



Read more at http://www.nme.com/news/m...d36DOUS.99



---


“Absolutely NO offence to Mr Mars, but you absolutely have to be shitting me,” wrote Bon Iver’s Justin...on Twitter following the awards. “While some awesome musicians do win, what is WINNING?”


He added:”To be factual, Mr Mars made a name in the INDUSTRY by making hits OUT of hits of yesteryear. SO… no real need to be mad, even, at the Grammies.
SZA? KENDRICK?


“I’d say move on from this shit show. Felt like a Democratic Party Party, not R’n’Roll.”



Read more at http://www.nme.com/news/m...d36DOUS.99







This is the issue, showing how black culture has become restricted into performing a singular genre of music exclusively, which dimishes the culture as a whole when it comes to the performing arts.....



Bruno Mars "bringing back real r&b music" in of itself is not the root of the problem, but a reflection of the problem....



There never would have been a situation to bring back anyting if real r&b during the time of its prominence wasn't destabilized and the black performers that Bruno Mars is emulating wasn't phased out of the landscape.....



THAT'S the problem



because of the restriction that has been placed on black cultural artists, this is why exclusive supporters of hip-hop try and hold on so dearly to it because for all practical purposes, there is nothing else left, but what the exclusive supporters of hip-hop hasn't been given the framework to understand is that the reason they find themselves trying to hold onto hip-hop with such fervor is that they have been socially engineered to react that way because.....they wasn't provided the opportunity to be exposed to the full gamut of music



It was a trick of deception for the ages because those who sought to destabilzied real r&b knew that authentic black music had the power to not only unite, but to truly change the world for the better by those black artists and other artists during those years who truly contributed to the art form instead of appropriating/interpolating it




there's a spiritual component to all this and if anyone was the trace when this dynamic began and when the decline of music started, it can be traced back to the year 1987



and this is why the Quincy Joneses of the world said in his most recent interview that the music industry is no more.....



it's not even running on fumes at this point....there is no music left

[Edited 2/7/18 18:24pm]





And whats crazy is, to phase out real r&b, Hip Hop was the tool used to do it
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Reply #186 posted 02/08/18 2:59pm

ThatWhiteDude

Hold on a minute, as far as I am concerned, no one on this thread that the industry is "wiping out" black artists. It is a well known fact that the industry promotes white, or POC RnB and Rap artists more because they look at them like they're somethin' special, when, infact, they're not special. Because as I said before, black people can do exactly the same but don't get the same credit. That is racism, praising white people wrongfully as pioneers such as Elvis, but he wasn't. Little Richard was before him and several other blacks.

I think That's what black people mean. And I think it's fair to say that the industry tries to "wipe out" the true pioneers. People rant about the racism in the industry and on none black artists who don't give credits where it's due.

Shawy89 said:

SMHhow the hell is the music industry "wiping out" black artists?

Literally, all outlets of music journalism from NME to Pitchfork to Billboard, to AP, to A&Rs and industry insiders, work day and night to push "new artists". And for the last 3 years (2015/16/2017) the majority of those artists have been black. Naturally because they've been the most consistent & the ones who made more interesting work.

Chance the Rapper

Khalid
The Weeknd

Anderson. Paak

Lil Uzi Vert and the rest of the Lils

Kelela
Blood Orange
Solange
Jidenna
SZA
Tinashe

And I never ever could understand how the fuck sane people do this: When Esperanza Spalding, who is wonderful, and black, suddenly gets nominated for BNA and wins it against Justin Bieber, Drake... Everyone is happy and just proud. But when Beck, who is also wonderful, but white, wins against Beyoncé, everyone goes "GRAMMYs are racist". This is a sickness. They forget all the times artists like Stevie Wonder, Roberta Flack, MJ, Lionel Richie, Alicia Keys, Kanye, even Beyoncé, who have tons of Grammys... maybe in the end it's about a combination of artistry, commercial appeal and TALENT. Sometimes it's not about racism. In this case (GRAMMYs), there's a Blue Ribbon pannel (top 1% of the top 1% of the NARAS) who gets to decide who wins AOTY. Just AOTY. SOTY and ROTY are voted like the rest of the categories.

Now, when choosing AOTY, the Blue Pannel takes into account:

  1. How the album/era shaped the US and to a lesser extent the world in terms of culture, moments, popularity..

  2. How veteran/influential an artist has been for the music industry, who has been long undershadowed.

  3. How the genre of music is never important, because music is not just pop, not just hip hop, not just R&B, you can make any type of good music, and still be welcomed.

AOTY to Bruno: Entertaining the average person who doesn't care about politics and sees good pop music as a way to escape

AOTY to Adele: Era/Album were WAY TOO BIG

AOTY to Taylor: Era/Album were BIG

AOTY to Beck: Veteran case

AOTY to Daft Punk: Era/Album were big + Veteran case

AOTY to Mumford & Sons: Whatever genre you do we'll still love you [Folk rock...]


AOTY to Adele: Era/Album were BIG

AOTY to Arcade Fire: Whatever genre you do we'll still love you [Indie rock]

[Edited 2/8/18 15:00pm]

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
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Reply #187 posted 02/09/18 8:46am

namepeace

Shawy89 said:

SMH how the hell is the music industry "wiping out" black artists?

Literally, all outlets of music journalism from NME to Pitchfork to Billboard, to AP, to A&Rs and industry insiders, work day and night to push "new artists". And for the last 3 years (2015/16/2017) the majority of those artists have been black. Naturally because they've been the most consistent & the ones who made more interesting work.

Chance the Rapper

Khalid
The Weeknd

Anderson. Paak

Lil Uzi Vert and the rest of the Lils

Kelela
Blood Orange
Solange
Jidenna
SZA
Tinashe

And I never ever could understand how the fuck sane people do this: When Esperanza Spalding, who is wonderful, and black, suddenly gets nominated for BNA and wins it against Justin Bieber, Drake... Everyone is happy and just proud. But when Beck, who is also wonderful, but white, wins against Beyoncé, everyone goes "GRAMMYs are racist". This is a sickness. They forget all the times artists like Stevie Wonder, Roberta Flack, MJ, Lionel Richie, Alicia Keys, Kanye, even Beyoncé, who have tons of Grammys... maybe in the end it's about a combination of artistry, commercial appeal and TALENT. Sometimes it's not about racism. In this case (GRAMMYs), there's a Blue Ribbon pannel (top 1% of the top 1% of the NARAS) who gets to decide who wins AOTY. Just AOTY. SOTY and ROTY are voted like the rest of the categories.

Now, when choosing AOTY, the Blue Pannel takes into account:

  1. How the album/era shaped the US and to a lesser extent the world in terms of culture, moments, popularity..

  2. How veteran/influential an artist has been for the music industry, who has been long undershadowed.

  3. How the genre of music is never important, because music is not just pop, not just hip hop, not just R&B, you can make any type of good music, and still be welcomed.

AOTY to Bruno: Entertaining the average person who doesn't care about politics and sees good pop music as a way to escape

AOTY to Adele: Era/Album were WAY TOO BIG

AOTY to Taylor: Era/Album were BIG

AOTY to Beck: Veteran case

AOTY to Daft Punk: Era/Album were big + Veteran case

AOTY to Mumford & Sons: Whatever genre you do we'll still love you [Folk rock...]


AOTY to Adele: Era/Album were BIG

AOTY to Arcade Fire: Whatever genre you do we'll still love you [Indie rock]


But again, I don't think that blanket statement that the industry is wiping out "black artists" fully describes the issue.

The debate here also involves whether traditional-straight ahead R&B is waning, and I think it is, largely because it has some age on it. Many of the artists who are associated in whole or in part with that sound now -- Bruno, Adele, Daft Punk, etc. -- are non-black, and are enjoying a lot of success for it.

That's not those artists' fault. While many black artists (including many you mentioned) are taking R&B in exciting new directions, they fit more in line with "future soul" than the kind of music Bruno has been selling. Which is why Bruno fits neatly into that breach appealing to audiences and older Grammy voters.

This has happened throughout the history of pop music. Black music, and black audiences, move from swing to jazz and blues to rock/"race" music to R&B/Soul to hip-hop. Then non-black artists come along, make it profitable, and to a degree, preserve and curate those sounds.

Some of this is racial, but not all "racist." And some of it is generational.




Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Media is slandering Bruno Mars because he wasn't the POC they wanted to win