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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > The Jacksons thread (Destiny vs Triumph)
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Reply #60 posted 12/04/17 4:37pm

214

thetimefan said:

I like both equally. Destiny has a country vibe on the title track and is more Pop/Soul. Triumph is more soulful and MJs vocal performances are among his best on this album. I'd say Destiny has more hits so to speak. Triumph is more of a cohesive album type project. The piano outro of Heartbreak Hotel into Time waits for No One is a brilliant seque. They should have found lyrics and expanded that piano piece as it was something special.

Triumph more soulful than Destiny? isn't the other way around?

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Reply #61 posted 12/04/17 4:37pm

214

Goddess4Real said:

Interesting observations by Questlove hmmm about those albums https://www.instagram.com...=questlove

[Edited 12/3/17 20:05pm]

What does he say please, instagram is not available. confused

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Reply #62 posted 12/05/17 1:17am

thetimefan

avatar

214 said:



thetimefan said:


I like both equally. Destiny has a country vibe on the title track and is more Pop/Soul. Triumph is more soulful and MJs vocal performances are among his best on this album. I'd say Destiny has more hits so to speak. Triumph is more of a cohesive album type project. The piano outro of Heartbreak Hotel into Time waits for No One is a brilliant seque. They should have found lyrics and expanded that piano piece as it was something special.

Triumph more soulful than Destiny? isn't the other way around?


For me, Destiny is more a pop/disco style record. Like it was more tailored for the mainstream. Triumph is more rooted in R&B/soul like Wondering Who, Lovely One, Your Ways, Everybody. I agree Destiny is soulful but Triumph is more a R&B orientated record. I guess that was my point but feel free to disagree.
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Reply #63 posted 12/05/17 7:45am

MotownSubdivis
ion

avatar

thetimefan said:

214 said:



thetimefan said:


I like both equally. Destiny has a country vibe on the title track and is more Pop/Soul. Triumph is more soulful and MJs vocal performances are among his best on this album. I'd say Destiny has more hits so to speak. Triumph is more of a cohesive album type project. The piano outro of Heartbreak Hotel into Time waits for No One is a brilliant seque. They should have found lyrics and expanded that piano piece as it was something special.

Triumph more soulful than Destiny? isn't the other way around?


For me, Destiny is more a pop/disco style record. Like it was more tailored for the mainstream. Triumph is more rooted in R&B/soul like Wondering Who, Lovely One, Your Ways, Everybody. I agree Destiny is soulful but Triumph is more a R&B orientated record. I guess that was my point but feel free to disagree.
I understand you.


Destiny was still an R&B record but its pop sensibilities were more pronounced than those of Triumph which is through and through an R&B based record.

I do find it somewhat interesting that Triumph, despite being primarily marketed as the R&B album it was performed a little better on the charts than its predecessor. Destiny topped out at #11 pop and #3 R&B while Triumph just cracked the Top 10 on the pop chart while it hit #1 on the R&B side. The former, however, had a Top 10 single in "Shake Your Body (Down to the Ground)" (#7 pop, #3 R&B) while the latter's best-performing single ("Lovely One") struck #12 pop and #2 R&B.
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Reply #64 posted 12/05/17 7:55am

LittleBLUECorv
ette

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MotownSubdivision said:

thetimefan said:


For me, Destiny is more a pop/disco style record. Like it was more tailored for the mainstream. Triumph is more rooted in R&B/soul like Wondering Who, Lovely One, Your Ways, Everybody. I agree Destiny is soulful but Triumph is more a R&B orientated record. I guess that was my point but feel free to disagree.
I understand you.


Destiny was still an R&B record but its pop sensibilities were more pronounced than those of Triumph which is through and through an R&B based record.

I do find it somewhat interesting that Triumph, despite being primarily marketed as the R&B album it was performed a little better on the charts than its predecessor. Destiny topped out at #11 pop and #3 R&B while Triumph just cracked the Top 10 on the pop chart while it hit #1 on the R&B side. The former, however, had a Top 10 single in "Shake Your Body (Down to the Ground)" (#7 pop, #3 R&B) while the latter's best-performing single ("Lovely One") struck #12 pop and #2 R&B.

But the album had 2 top 30 pop hits with Heartbreak Hotel hitting #22 pop. As compared to Blame It On Boogie missing the pop top 50. So 2 top 25 pop hits not to mention Walk Right Now and Can You Feel It also top 80 pop singles.
PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
-----
Live Your Life How U Wanna Live It
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Reply #65 posted 12/05/17 6:15pm

purple05

Did y'all see Questloves post on instagram about some of the destinys songs?
I don't know how to post that stuff here
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Reply #66 posted 12/08/17 3:14pm

MickyDolenz

LittleBLUECorvette said:

But the album had 2 top 30 pop hits with Heartbreak Hotel hitting #22 pop. As compared to Blame It On Boogie missing the pop top 50. So 2 top 25 pop hits not to mention Walk Right Now and Can You Feel It also top 80 pop singles.

The singles from Triumph might not got a lot of Top 40 airplay because this was not that long after the Disco Demolition, when a lot of pop stations decreased or stopped altogether of songs that were considered disco and really a lot of was was called disco was really R&B and funk. On Top 40, this was the era of soft rock (Air Supply, Christopher Cross), arena rock (Journey, Styx), new wave (The Cars, Blondie), and country crossover (Urban Cowboy soundtrack, Kenny Rogers, Dolly Parton). Remember even Kool & The Gang released the country flavored Celebration, which was a big pop hit, and probably their most known song. Millie Jackson released a country style album around this time too.

It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. If you don’t know your business, you’re in trouble! ~ Johnnie Taylor
Each generation has their music that they fall in love with, that makes it special to them ~ Ralph Tresvant
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Reply #67 posted 12/08/17 5:33pm

214

purple05 said:

Did y'all see Questloves post on instagram about some of the destinys songs? I don't know how to post that stuff here

Could you tell us what did he say'?

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Reply #68 posted 12/08/17 8:42pm

Goddess4Real

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214 said:

Goddess4Real said:

Interesting observations by Questlove hmmm about those albums https://www.instagram.com...=questlove

[Edited 12/3/17 20:05pm]

What does he say please, instagram is not available. confused

  • questloveMJ’s albums as diary/social media starts in 1978. There is a dark intense level of loneliness being expressed in these songs. Like SO intense I longed to know what his fam thought of his confessional outpouring. “Live to dream, don’t it seem. The tears....the pain: Reality”
    -Push Me Away

    A song later he asks “Am I being used.....I just need a clue”
    -Things I Do For You

    and more pain gets spilled “Sometimes I cry cause I’m confused...is this the fact of being used?” “And then i try to please them so, but how far can this pleasing go”
    -Bless His Soul

    Slowly i realized the independence MJ longs for is slightly different than what was scripted. The Jackson 5 leaving the Motown nest was a need to control their own fate (well, that’s what we were told) But it’s not until the final song that my eyebrows were raised “Jack still cries day and night, Jack’s not happy with his life. He wants to do this, he wants to do that....he tries so hard to give a lot, he wants to be what he is not....All the time getting in things that he can’t get out. Something deep inside of him, eating up the pride in him”..... The ruse and saving grace for this song (as well as all the other songs MJ wrote on this album) is he throws off the stench with the next line... “That makes him buy things for the girls” -That’s What You Get (For Being Polite)

    basically no good icon in the making goes unpunished.

    which lowers the suspicion that he might be singing about the very people to whom he has always been associated with. I was 7 years old and clearly I knew MJ wasn’t fooling not a damn soul.

    He wanted out.

    The independence HE wanted was COMPLETE freedom. From categories. genres. obstacles only given to non A listers. & painfully enough: family.

    the darkness that was as cloudy as Destiny’s album cover followed MJ over to his biggest selling album.

    HOW!!!!!??? How did an album so full of mistrust and depression unite us so

    #Thriller35
  • Load more comments
  • jkallisonpdxThere is an entire documentary dedicated to this very idea @questlove
  • thepapillonsevenFollow me ❤
  • romanrokotov90❤️🖤
  • adri_mouse@selam_abi
  • princesssuperstarFrom deep pain comes great art and it can be that way in life too, if you use the pain wisely smile
  • sarahmsmiles11😢 he was one of a kind, and left this world too soon. I remember getting the bad and thriller albums and was just inspired all around
  • unnerholmGreat post. Never thought about those tracks from that perspective..
  • shayla.love@ernestine.johnson Ernie peep this!
  • wlhrec@questlove you definitely make me think about all the times were in between certain songs like in especially for me dangerous where is very apparent there's a bunch of Michael Jackson songs that connect with deeply but I can tell within the song that it's him and this right here is definitely making me think about looking in the past more with all the songs that he has co-wrote with his brothers and other people as well as the ones he wrote by himself. I thought I was the only one that caught Like lyrics in some of the songs and noticed that it had to be dealing with him in general even some of the ones that were before Thriller. I'm glad I'm not alone in this.
  • jb6ix@aurevoir_felicia
  • eoioneSo coincidental ....I sat watching his epic music videos half the day. MJ was cosmic.
  • docjhart💯
  • docjhart@sachi_ito03
  • c.m.y.k7Lol
  • jonarriazaI'd enroll in a music meets cultural history course taught by @questlove any day.
  • groovy_dadsTx @questlove for this. I always felt hi strugle, but your guidance here now makes me understand better.
  • gezzaoBro, we need a documentary on this. The Off the Wall one was amazing
  • _bob_sacamano@jkallisonpdx whats it called thanks
  • gunnarrtollverrThe bottom line is that America destroyed this man, persecuted bullied him for decades it's an inconvenient truth Americans will never admit. the way they treated this man is a reflection of how corrupt American society truly is. Basically anything for money is the core at their value system
  • yellohammer54QL- truth under your beam of perspective gives painful understanding, from time to time we all could be encouraged to see others and brilliance from a different pair of moccasins. Peace!

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #69 posted 12/10/17 1:04pm

214

Goddess4Real said:

214 said:

What does he say please, instagram is not available. confused

  • questloveMJ’s albums as diary/social media starts in 1978. There is a dark intense level of loneliness being expressed in these songs. Like SO intense I longed to know what his fam thought of his confessional outpouring. “Live to dream, don’t it seem. The tears....the pain: Reality”
    -Push Me Away

    A song later he asks “Am I being used.....I just need a clue”
    -Things I Do For You

    and more pain gets spilled “Sometimes I cry cause I’m confused...is this the fact of being used?” “And then i try to please them so, but how far can this pleasing go”
    -Bless His Soul

    Slowly i realized the independence MJ longs for is slightly different than what was scripted. The Jackson 5 leaving the Motown nest was a need to control their own fate (well, that’s what we were told) But it’s not until the final song that my eyebrows were raised “Jack still cries day and night, Jack’s not happy with his life. He wants to do this, he wants to do that....he tries so hard to give a lot, he wants to be what he is not....All the time getting in things that he can’t get out. Something deep inside of him, eating up the pride in him”..... The ruse and saving grace for this song (as well as all the other songs MJ wrote on this album) is he throws off the stench with the next line... “That makes him buy things for the girls” -That’s What You Get (For Being Polite)

    basically no good icon in the making goes unpunished.

    which lowers the suspicion that he might be singing about the very people to whom he has always been associated with. I was 7 years old and clearly I knew MJ wasn’t fooling not a damn soul.

    He wanted out.

    The independence HE wanted was COMPLETE freedom. From categories. genres. obstacles only given to non A listers. & painfully enough: family.

    the darkness that was as cloudy as Destiny’s album cover followed MJ over to his biggest selling album.

    HOW!!!!!??? How did an album so full of mistrust and depression unite us so

    #Thriller35
  • Load more comments
  • jkallisonpdxThere is an entire documentary dedicated to this very idea @questlove
  • thepapillonsevenFollow me ❤
  • romanrokotov90❤️🖤
  • adri_mouse@selam_abi
  • princesssuperstarFrom deep pain comes great art and it can be that way in life too, if you use the pain wisely smile
  • sarahmsmiles11😢 he was one of a kind, and left this world too soon. I remember getting the bad and thriller albums and was just inspired all around
  • unnerholmGreat post. Never thought about those tracks from that perspective..
  • shayla.love@ernestine.johnson Ernie peep this!
  • wlhrec@questlove you definitely make me think about all the times were in between certain songs like in especially for me dangerous where is very apparent there's a bunch of Michael Jackson songs that connect with deeply but I can tell within the song that it's him and this right here is definitely making me think about looking in the past more with all the songs that he has co-wrote with his brothers and other people as well as the ones he wrote by himself. I thought I was the only one that caught Like lyrics in some of the songs and noticed that it had to be dealing with him in general even some of the ones that were before Thriller. I'm glad I'm not alone in this.
  • jb6ix@aurevoir_felicia
  • eoioneSo coincidental ....I sat watching his epic music videos half the day. MJ was cosmic.
  • docjhart💯
  • docjhart@sachi_ito03
  • c.m.y.k7Lol
  • jonarriazaI'd enroll in a music meets cultural history course taught by @questlove any day.
  • groovy_dadsTx @questlove for this. I always felt hi strugle, but your guidance here now makes me understand better.
  • gezzaoBro, we need a documentary on this. The Off the Wall one was amazing
  • _bob_sacamano@jkallisonpdx whats it called thanks
  • gunnarrtollverrThe bottom line is that America destroyed this man, persecuted bullied him for decades it's an inconvenient truth Americans will never admit. the way they treated this man is a reflection of how corrupt American society truly is. Basically anything for money is the core at their value system
  • yellohammer54QL- truth under your beam of perspective gives painful understanding, from time to time we all could be encouraged to see others and brilliance from a different pair of moccasins. Peace!

Thank you, great comments from Quest and his followers. To me one his very best albums in his carreer.

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Reply #70 posted 12/10/17 4:32pm

alphastreet

Destiny has some real deep shit for sure, traces of it are evident in the jacksons and good times albums as well in some of the subject matter.

As I was reading the post, I don't know how it didn't hit me that "Jack" is a metaphor for himself, or possibly bits and pieces of what his brothers, jermaine in particular, had faced with the transition to epic and trying to make his own path too. Remember, MJ looked up to him most musically from the time he was a baby.

I hadn't read this anywhere, but if there is any truth to that...I guess mj wrote a song about jermaine first?! lol

[Edited 12/10/17 16:33pm]

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Reply #71 posted 12/10/17 6:51pm

214

Bless His Soul is the most prophetic song he ever wrote.

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Reply #72 posted 12/10/17 8:01pm

alphastreet

214 said:

Bless His Soul is the most prophetic song he ever wrote.



I felt something similar too...but now I view it like young Michael having a conversation with grown up Michael
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Reply #73 posted 12/10/17 9:47pm

LittleBLUECorv
ette

avatar

None of the songs from Destiny were written by Mike solo. A few with him and Randy and the others from all five.

Who was writing most of the lyrics?
PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
-----
Live Your Life How U Wanna Live It
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