independent and unofficial
Prince fan community site
Sat 21st Oct 2017 7:37pm
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Janet Jackson - The Velvet Rope 20th Anniversary
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 1 of 3 123>
Reply   New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 10/07/17 9:34am

TrivialPursuit

Janet Jackson - The Velvet Rope 20th Anniversary

Twenty years ago today, Janet released The Velvet Rope album. "Got 'Til It's Gone" was released just a couple of weeks prior. I remember hearing it and "Together Again" on the radio in Minneapolis, yet "Together Again" wouldn't be released as a single until December.

The Velvet Rope Tour (with Nsync as the supporting act on many dates) was arguably her best tour to date. The group of dancers she had, some stemming from the janet. period and earlier, her band (including famed guitarist Dave Barry, Rose Royce's own Terry Santiel on percussion, and the fabulous Stacy Campbell on backing vocals) all made a perfect formula for a perfect concert. The tour would continue through the world until the end of January 1999, having started in April 1998, just a few months after the album's release.

Janet exposed not only new tattoos and piercings, but she explored AIDS-related death, bisexuality, domestic abuse, ménage à trois, loneliness, phone sex, and a fetish of mild BDSM. Go'n girl! TVR stands as one of her most personal and revealing albums to date, even with inward glances on subsequent songs like "You Ain't Right", "Son Of A Gun", "Trust A Try", "Truth", "Thinking About My Ex", etc., until Unbreakable. It stands to reason that Unbreakable is the sister album to TVR, in personal scenarios, texture, diverse yet cohesive production, and a grown-up sound overall.

In interviews, Janet talked about how she sometimes couldn't make it through a song. She'd leave the studio and be gone for a week or two before returning to finish the song. She fought depression throughout the tour. Her self-hate and depression were evident during an interview for MTV in the middle of the tour. She just looked so sad. While continuing to achieve great success with her music, tours, videos, etc., she still felt like she wasn't good enough, she hated her smile saying later it was like The Joker with the high cheekbones and V-shaped face. She would ultimately find more self-acceptance and pride in herself, despite facing not only a breakup of a longtime friendship with choreographer Tina Landon, but a divorce from a marriage few knew about to husband and co-collaborator Rene Elizondo. (Although, when LaToya was married to Jack Gordon and going on talk shows exposing the family's secrets she said many times 'Oh Janet's been married for years".)

For me, The Velvet Rope is probably one of her best records, although it didn't quite achieve the popularity that Control, Rhythm Nation, or janet. did. But isn't it always those more personal and offbeat records from an artist that make them special and treasured?

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 10/07/17 9:37am

TrivialPursuit

The Videos


[Edited 10/7/17 11:19am]

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 10/07/17 9:41am

TrivialPursuit

The Photos

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 10/07/17 10:06am

lool

What a minute. Ummm... You forgot something...
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 10/07/17 11:20am

TrivialPursuit

lool said:

What a minute. Ummm... You forgot something...


I had that in my coding before I copy & pasted the YT stuff in. I guess I missed part of it. Thanks for the reminder. Such a classic song, although I never jived with it much early on. Eventually though... "It's hot in here..."

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 10/07/17 11:24am

wonder505

I never bought into her depression or self-hate act during this phase, but this album did show growth in the themes explored. Not my favorite but it was very good.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 10/07/17 12:05pm

TrivialPursuit

wonder505 said:

I never bought into her depression or self-hate act during this phase, but this album did show growth in the themes explored. Not my favorite but it was very good.


I tell ya, if you find that interview with Kurt Loder or John Norris (I think it was Norris), where they're at a venue sitting out in the audience on a cargo crate or something, her face is just dismal throughout. She's not a happy gal, seems distracted. I don't think anyone feigns that sort of sadness for the sake of a record. That's not an act, for anyone. There's a photo of her in the mid-90s, in her book True You, that she was about to go to an MTV event or something, and still had a hospital bracelet having just been released that day or the day before.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 10/07/17 12:50pm

alphastreet

A lot of narratives showed up on Google paying homage to this album and how it
Helped them through tough times.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 10/07/17 2:58pm

TrivialPursuit

alphastreet said:

A lot of narratives showed up on Google paying homage to this album and how it Helped them through tough times.


I've seen a lot on social media today about that today.

There's a playlist featured on Spotify (and Janet did a video about it) called This Is: Janet Jackson. It highlights TVR songs and adds others to the latter part. I just listened to the whole album earlier instead.


"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 10/07/17 3:11pm

paisleypark4

avatar

alphastreet said:

A lot of narratives showed up on Google paying homage to this album and how it Helped them through tough times.

This album helped me be comfortable about being gay.

Especially Free Xone. Although the lyrics are not really that deatiled the message along with tracks like Velvet Rope and You only helped me accept myself...and I was not alone. It was good to know that such an big star was down to Earth and felt the same way that I do.

Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 10/07/17 3:36pm

alphastreet

That's awesome! She definitely did music that spoke to everyone though I also think at the time it deserved to be more popular though it did well
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 10/07/17 4:19pm

wonder505

TrivialPursuit said:



wonder505 said:


I never bought into her depression or self-hate act during this phase, but this album did show growth in the themes explored. Not my favorite but it was very good.


I tell ya, if you find that interview with Kurt Loder or John Norris (I think it was Norris), where they're at a venue sitting out in the audience on a cargo crate or something, her face is just dismal throughout. She's not a happy gal, seems distracted. I don't think anyone feigns that sort of sadness for the sake of a record. That's not an act, for anyone. There's a photo of her in the mid-90s, in her book True You, that she was about to go to an MTV event or something, and still had a hospital bracelet having just been released that day or the day before.



Was that the result of a mental breakdown that warranted hospitalization? Like factually?
[Edited 10/7/17 16:31pm]
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 10/07/17 6:07pm

TrivialPursuit

wonder505 said:


Was that the result of a mental breakdown that warranted hospitalization? Like factually?


It's been a minute since I've read her book, so I honestly don't recall at this moment. But it's in her book. She went through times of banging her head on the wall, hating herself and thinking she was ugly and not good enough. She hated her smile, said she looked like the Joker. She conveyed a lot of this in interviews in 2011 when the book came out. The book is actually shorter than it appears because the last quarter of it is recipes from her trainer and cook for losing weight. The book is a quick read otherwise. The book isn't an autobiography of sorts. It's more about being your true self and not buying into what others say about you, and changing the tape playing in your head that self-sabotages.

I hope she writes a memoir someday, and spills about Chico or whoever #1 was, Rene, Q-Tip, Super Bowl, Wissam, etc. Just get it out, girl.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 10/07/17 8:10pm

Toofunkyinhere

This is one of the best album's I've heard. Her album's before this were good, but this one is much deeper. Flows brilliantly
We're here, might as well get into it.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 10/08/17 12:58pm

alphastreet

It truly does flow great from start to finish, and imo, the total package is a musical memoir. I also feel of all her albums this one aged the best and if it were released today it would fit right in musically
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 10/08/17 1:02pm

alphastreet

TrivialPursuit said:



wonder505 said:



Was that the result of a mental breakdown that warranted hospitalization? Like factually?


It's been a minute since I've read her book, so I honestly don't recall at this moment. But it's in her book. She went through times of banging her head on the wall, hating herself and thinking she was ugly and not good enough. She hated her smile, said she looked like the Joker. She conveyed a lot of this in interviews in 2011 when the book came out. The book is actually shorter than it appears because the last quarter of it is recipes from her trainer and cook for losing weight. The book is a quick read otherwise. The book isn't an autobiography of sorts. It's more about being your true self and not buying into what others say about you, and changing the tape playing in your head that self-sabotages.

I hope she writes a memoir someday, and spills about Chico or whoever #1 was, Rene, Q-Tip, Super Bowl, Wissam, etc. Just get it out, girl.



She was suffering from exhaustion and dehydration but for over a week. I recall seeing another pic when she was being released from that hospital stay. No one said it had anything to do with mental health, but if it did I wouldn't be surprised. She did say she used to cry backstage and feel guilty for her success, telling Oprah this and referencing in VIBE. I wouldn't be surprised if the happenings in the Jackson family that time took a toll on her ans also played a role in her depression
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 10/08/17 1:30pm

alphastreet

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #17 posted 10/08/17 11:00pm

TrivialPursuit

alphastreet said:


She was suffering from exhaustion and dehydration but for over a week. I recall seeing another pic when she was being released from that hospital stay.


Yeah, I flipped through the book but didn't find the story per se. But this is the pic I was referring to.


"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 10/09/17 6:23am

hausofmoi7

avatar

"Got 'till it's gone" is one of the greatest pop songs ever.
It's so innovative that it could be released today and it would still be groundbreaking sonically.
Janet, JJ&TL, QTip, J Dilla and Joni Mitchell.
That's an impressive team.


Mark Romanek then comes in a delivers a perfect visual as its accompaniment



worship



.
[Edited 10/9/17 6:46am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #19 posted 10/09/17 6:57am

alphastreet

TrivialPursuit said:



alphastreet said:



She was suffering from exhaustion and dehydration but for over a week. I recall seeing another pic when she was being released from that hospital stay.


Yeah, I flipped through the book but didn't find the story per se. But this is the pic I was referring to.




Yeah I know, the one I saw was probably from the same day where she's in a wheelchair wearing orange pants
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #20 posted 10/09/17 8:18am

paisleypark4

avatar

oh no.....i just watched that aww. Had no idea. She was always private about her life

Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #21 posted 10/09/17 9:40am

namepeace

hausofmoi7 said:

"Got 'till it's gone" is one of the greatest pop songs ever. It's so innovative that it could be released today and it would still be groundbreaking sonically. Janet, JJ&TL, QTip, J Dilla and Joni Mitchell. That's an impressive team. Mark Romanek then comes in a delivers a perfect visual as its accompaniment worship . [Edited 10/9/17 6:46am]


Agreed.

Kudos to Janet on the 20th anniversary of this classic single and wonderful album.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #22 posted 10/09/17 11:44am

TrivialPursuit

namepeace said:

hausofmoi7 said:

"Got 'till it's gone" is one of the greatest pop songs ever. It's so innovative that it could be released today and it would still be groundbreaking sonically. Janet, JJ&TL, QTip, J Dilla and Joni Mitchell. That's an impressive team. Mark Romanek then comes in a delivers a perfect visual as its accompaniment worship . [Edited 10/9/17 6:46am]


Agreed.

Kudos to Janet on the 20th anniversary of this classic single and wonderful album.


I have to admit, I hated that song when it came out. Only because the snare on it seemed so loud and ear piercing, her vocals sounded low in the mix and I couldn't feel it. Since then I have much better appreciation for it, and of course the album.

Now why you wanna go and do that, love, huh?

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #23 posted 10/09/17 1:37pm

namepeace

TrivialPursuit said:

namepeace said:


Agreed.

Kudos to Janet on the 20th anniversary of this classic single and wonderful album.


I have to admit, I hated that song when it came out. Only because the snare on it seemed so loud and ear piercing, her vocals sounded low in the mix and I couldn't feel it. Since then I have much better appreciation for it, and of course the album.

Now why you wanna go and do that, love, huh?


It was clearly a departure for Janet, and the mixing seemed off to me but the hook is hypnotic. J Dilla was a genius.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #24 posted 10/09/17 1:52pm

Musicslave

TrivialPursuit said:

namepeace said:


Agreed.

Kudos to Janet on the 20th anniversary of this classic single and wonderful album.


I have to admit, I hated that song when it came out. Only because the snare on it seemed so loud and ear piercing, her vocals sounded low in the mix and I couldn't feel it. Since then I have much better appreciation for it, and of course the album.

Now why you wanna go and do that, love, huh?

-

I too didn't like vocal mix on this one. I loved the look of the video, very stylish in fashion, imagery. Janet looked gorgeous. Her minimal make up in this video and TTWLG works well for her complexion.

-

After reading the lyrics to it, I began to appreciate it more. At first, some portions of the verses were hard to follow. Didn't she have to settle a lawsuit with Desiree for having a similiar melody to her "You Gotta Be" song? I could be wrong.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #25 posted 10/09/17 1:55pm

Musicslave

namepeace said:

TrivialPursuit said:


I have to admit, I hated that song when it came out. Only because the snare on it seemed so loud and ear piercing, her vocals sounded low in the mix and I couldn't feel it. Since then I have much better appreciation for it, and of course the album.

Now why you wanna go and do that, love, huh?


It was clearly a departure for Janet, and the mixing seemed off to me but the hook is hypnotic. J Dilla was a genius.

-

That brings to mind another controversy from this era. Was Dilla the genius behind this track or Jimmy Jam's copping Dilla's style genius? Jimmy admitted trying to create a Dilla beat without his usual tools in the studio and came up with this track. I've heard cats from the Hip Hop community claim, Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis didn't give Dilla credit for what he came up with.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #26 posted 10/09/17 2:23pm

namepeace

Musicslave said:

namepeace said:


It was clearly a departure for Janet, and the mixing seemed off to me but the hook is hypnotic. J Dilla was a genius.

-

That brings to mind another controversy from this era. Was Dilla the genius behind this track or Jimmy Jam's copping Dilla's style genius? Jimmy admitted trying to create a Dilla beat without his usual tools in the studio and came up with this track. I've heard cats from the Hip Hop community claim, Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis didn't give Dilla credit for what he came up with.

I wouldn't be surprised at either, but Dilla has long been credited with the actual work, if not the finished production.

J&L do a LOT of "borrowing" in their Janet productions. "Rhythm Nation" (hook lifted from Sly); "If" (bridge lifted from the Supremes). Only 2 examples but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't give Dilla (better known then as Jay Dee) credit.

Q-Tip was working with him as part of the Ummah in that era, which may have been how Janet/J&L got connected).

It happens frequently. Puff Daddy took production credit for Ready to Die but it was Easy Mo Bee that actually did the hands on work, IIRC.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #27 posted 10/09/17 7:20pm

TrivialPursuit

Musicslave said:

TrivialPursuit said:


I have to admit, I hated that song when it came out. Only because the snare on it seemed so loud and ear piercing, her vocals sounded low in the mix and I couldn't feel it. Since then I have much better appreciation for it, and of course the album.

Now why you wanna go and do that, love, huh?

-

I too didn't like vocal mix on this one. I loved the look of the video, very stylish in fashion, imagery. Janet looked gorgeous. Her minimal make up in this video and TTWLG works well for her complexion.

-

After reading the lyrics to it, I began to appreciate it more. At first, some portions of the verses were hard to follow. Didn't she have to settle a lawsuit with Desiree for having a similiar melody to her "You Gotta Be" song? I could be wrong.


I only vaguely remember hearing something about it, but this is from wikipedia:


Right after the release of "Got 'til It's Gone", British singer Des'ree thought the song was very similar to her own song "Feel So High" from her 1992 album Mind Adventures, and sued Jackson and the producers of the song. In July 1998, she was awarded an out-of-court settlement granting her 25 percent of the publishing royalties from the song; around £2 million pounds. However, Des'ree said that her "aim wasn't to get money out of her", but it was purely for justice, as she wanted Jackson to recognize that she had "borrowed" from her work and not given her credit.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #28 posted 10/10/17 5:46am

Musicslave

TrivialPursuit said:

Musicslave said:

-

I too didn't like vocal mix on this one. I loved the look of the video, very stylish in fashion, imagery. Janet looked gorgeous. Her minimal make up in this video and TTWLG works well for her complexion.

-

After reading the lyrics to it, I began to appreciate it more. At first, some portions of the verses were hard to follow. Didn't she have to settle a lawsuit with Desiree for having a similiar melody to her "You Gotta Be" song? I could be wrong.


I only vaguely remember hearing something about it, but this is from wikipedia:


Right after the release of "Got 'til It's Gone", British singer Des'ree thought the song was very similar to her own song "Feel So High" from her 1992 album Mind Adventures, and sued Jackson and the producers of the song. In July 1998, she was awarded an out-of-court settlement granting her 25 percent of the publishing royalties from the song; around £2 million pounds. However, Des'ree said that her "aim wasn't to get money out of her", but it was purely for justice, as she wanted Jackson to recognize that she had "borrowed" from her work and not given her credit.

-

Thanks! That was it, "Feel So High." I had the wrong song in mind.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #29 posted 10/10/17 5:52am

Musicslave

namepeace said:

Musicslave said:

-

That brings to mind another controversy from this era. Was Dilla the genius behind this track or Jimmy Jam's copping Dilla's style genius? Jimmy admitted trying to create a Dilla beat without his usual tools in the studio and came up with this track. I've heard cats from the Hip Hop community claim, Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis didn't give Dilla credit for what he came up with.

I wouldn't be surprised at either, but Dilla has long been credited with the actual work, if not the finished production.

J&L do a LOT of "borrowing" in their Janet productions. "Rhythm Nation" (hook lifted from Sly); "If" (bridge lifted from the Supremes). Only 2 examples but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't give Dilla (better known then as Jay Dee) credit.

Q-Tip was working with him as part of the Ummah in that era, which may have been how Janet/J&L got connected).

It happens frequently. Puff Daddy took production credit for Ready to Die but it was Easy Mo Bee that actually did the hands on work, IIRC.

-

Yeah, I think they're probably the best non-hip hop producers who use sampling or interpolation. And they've been doing it since the beginning with Janet. All the way back with the "Control' record.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 1 of 3 123>
Reply   New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Janet Jackson - The Velvet Rope 20th Anniversary