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Thread started 10/03/17 11:37pm

TrivialPursuit

"That's The Way Love Goes" with original dancers

I happened across this on YouTube, and it truly brought a smile to my face. Tina had such great choreography (even more so compared to Gil's). Here's Tina, Gil, Tyce, Shawnette, and Dave Scott (who ironically co-founded Mindless Behavior - a young urban boy band who opened for Janet's 2011 Up Close & Personal Tour). I don't think Dave was on TVR tour.

Apparently, they sorta got together to honor former dancer Mike Andrews, who was prominent on The Velvet Rope Tour. I can only find that he passed away suddenly, but nothing beyond that.

998JVR_Michael_Andrews_001.jpg



Janet and Tina had major beef between TVR & All For You (songs like "Son Of A Gun" and "You Ain't Right" directly address Tina). Tina did dance with Janet again at the MJ tribute at the MTV VMA in 2009. Janet said in rehearsals (and on camera) that it felt good to dance with Tina again. I sure wish they'd be friends again. Maybe they do talk, who knows. They were a great team.

[Edited 10/3/17 23:43pm]

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
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Reply #1 posted 10/03/17 11:50pm

TrivialPursuit

Here's another video of the same workshop. TTWLG is near the end.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
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Reply #2 posted 10/04/17 11:06am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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I remember him

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #3 posted 10/04/17 10:09pm

lowkey

TrivialPursuit said:

I happened across this on YouTube, and it truly brought a smile to my face. Tina had such great choreography (even more so compared to Gil's). Here's Tina, Gil, Tyce, Shawnette, and Dave Scott (who ironically co-founded Mindless Behavior - a young urban boy band who opened for Janet's 2011 Up Close & Personal Tour). I don't think Dave was on TVR tour.

Apparently, they sorta got together to honor former dancer Mike Andrews, who was prominent on The Velvet Rope Tour. I can only find that he passed away suddenly, but nothing beyond that.

998JVR_Michael_Andrews_001.jpg



Janet and Tina had major beef between TVR & All For You (songs like "Son Of A Gun" and "You Ain't Right" directly address Tina). Tina did dance with Janet again at the MJ tribute at the MTV VMA in 2009. Janet said in rehearsals (and on camera) that it felt good to dance with Tina again. I sure wish they'd be friends again. Maybe they do talk, who knows. They were a great team.

[Edited 10/3/17 23:43pm]

thats actually rob vinson, who ironically was the main reason janet and tina fell out. rob and tina were engaged and he cheated on her, janet found out but didnt tell tina, she was friends with everybody involved and told rob he need to tell tina himself. that reunion performance was a tribute for mike andrews who passed away last year. tina also went to the unbreakable tour in 2015 and has spoken about janet many times in interviews, i think they've moved past their issues.

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Reply #4 posted 10/04/17 10:33pm

TrivialPursuit

lowkey said:

thats actually rob vinson, who ironically was the main reason janet and tina fell out. rob and tina were engaged and he cheated on her, janet found out but didnt tell tina, she was friends with everybody involved and told rob he need to tell tina himself. that reunion performance was a tribute for mike andrews who passed away last year. tina also went to the unbreakable tour in 2015 and has spoken about janet many times in interviews, i think they've moved past their issues.


I don't think that's Rob. At least the comments didn't note that, nor did descriptions on other videos from the same event. Rob is pretty tall, and that guy isn't much different in height than Tyce.

And yeah, I know the Rob/Tina drama and how it split Tina & Janet apart. I do think Janet should have told Tina about the affair. She had a much bigger investment in Tina's friendship than anything with Rob.

I noted it was a tribute to Mike. I'm sure Tina went to most of Janet's tours since the fallout (except maybe All For You).

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
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Reply #5 posted 10/05/17 8:23pm

alphastreet

Aw I didn't know that the dancer passed away

Too bad they fought and Tina gave her choregraphy to britney and christina.... I feel like they're okay now but it doesn't mean they can work together.

Though I feel janet should have said something, there is always two sides to the story and I wonder what janet would have to say about it and what kept her from saying something. Didn't Rene cheat on her in the same time frame?

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Reply #6 posted 10/05/17 8:39pm

TrivialPursuit

alphastreet said:

Aw I didn't know that the dancer passed away

Too bad they fought and Tina gave her choregraphy to britney and christina.... I feel like they're okay now but it doesn't mean they can work together.

Though I feel janet should have said something, there is always two sides to the story and I wonder what janet would have to say about it and what kept her from saying something. Didn't Rene cheat on her in the same time frame?


I do wonder about Janet's thought process during it all.

Rene was a dick for a long time. He was dealing with Janet fighting depression and banging her head into the wall thinking she wasn't good enough, didn't like her looks, etc. He had no tools on how to handle that (he's not a doctor) and took a shitty route instead. It was bad on all sides. He was abusive to her, and "What About" was clearly about him. Even her #3 hubby was calling her a bitch every day (Randy confirmed that).

All that aside, Rene's a dirt bag, and ain't no one heard from his ass since 2000. I do think her and Tina are cool with each other. Tina has been around since "What Have You Done For Me Lately" video (beret and large white sweater in the video). It's so long ago, but they probably will never work together again. That pains me, because what they did for janet. & TVR was just amazing. The only choreography to rival it before or after is the RN1814 stuff from that other guy.

I was so surprised that Tina did "Come On Over" by Aguilera, "Oops I Did it Again" by Britney, and so much more. (I knew about "Livin' La Vida Loca".) Even Rihanna's "Umbrella"!

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
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Reply #7 posted 10/05/17 9:31pm

alphastreet

TrivialPursuit said:

alphastreet said:

Aw I didn't know that the dancer passed away

Too bad they fought and Tina gave her choregraphy to britney and christina.... I feel like they're okay now but it doesn't mean they can work together.

Though I feel janet should have said something, there is always two sides to the story and I wonder what janet would have to say about it and what kept her from saying something. Didn't Rene cheat on her in the same time frame?


I do wonder about Janet's thought process during it all.

Rene was a dick for a long time. He was dealing with Janet fighting depression and banging her head into the wall thinking she wasn't good enough, didn't like her looks, etc. He had no tools on how to handle that (he's not a doctor) and took a shitty route instead. It was bad on all sides. He was abusive to her, and "What About" was clearly about him. Even her #3 hubby was calling her a bitch every day (Randy confirmed that).

All that aside, Rene's a dirt bag, and ain't no one heard from his ass since 2000. I do think her and Tina are cool with each other. Tina has been around since "What Have You Done For Me Lately" video (beret and large white sweater in the video). It's so long ago, but they probably will never work together again. That pains me, because what they did for janet. & TVR was just amazing. The only choreography to rival it before or after is the RN1814 stuff from that other guy.

I was so surprised that Tina did "Come On Over" by Aguilera, "Oops I Did it Again" by Britney, and so much more. (I knew about "Livin' La Vida Loca".) Even Rihanna's "Umbrella"!

Yeah they were like a match made in heaven, janet definitely had the dream team in the 90's though it's sad they all bumped heads in the end. Tina even did rihanna's tour in 2011 or something like that, in the era that kind of looked VR inspired visually.

RN1814 was truly iconic as well; for years I missed janet doing choreography, but realized in recent years she went the minimalistic route with music video years before it became commonplace, and is still artistic in that sense.

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Reply #8 posted 10/07/17 10:14am

PatrickS77

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TrivialPursuit said:


Rene was a dick for a long time. He was dealing with Janet fighting depression and banging her head into the wall thinking she wasn't good enough, didn't like her looks, etc. He had no tools on how to handle that (he's not a doctor) and took a shitty route instead. It was bad on all sides. He was abusive to her, and "What About" was clearly about him. Even her #3 hubby was calling her a bitch every day (Randy confirmed that).

All that aside, Rene's a dirt bag, and ain't no one heard from his ass since 2000.

Where did you get that?? That's total BS. Rene was still with Janet until 2 years after "What about" was released. Geez. He contributed lyrics to that song. So it clearly was not about him.

As for him being a dirtbag, I do not think that a "dirtbag" would take care of the fans the way he did. I got to meet Janet because of him. I got to go to several Janet concerts for free because of him. I could have went to the tour ending party, if I hadn't screwed up. I went out with Janet in Rotterdam because of him. It was fan heaven while he was around.

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Reply #9 posted 10/07/17 11:23am

TrivialPursuit

PatrickS77 said:

TrivialPursuit said:


Rene was a dick for a long time. He was dealing with Janet fighting depression and banging her head into the wall thinking she wasn't good enough, didn't like her looks, etc. He had no tools on how to handle that (he's not a doctor) and took a shitty route instead. It was bad on all sides. He was abusive to her, and "What About" was clearly about him. Even her #3 hubby was calling her a bitch every day (Randy confirmed that).

All that aside, Rene's a dirt bag, and ain't no one heard from his ass since 2000.

Where did you get that?? That's total BS. Rene was still with Janet until 2 years after "What about" was released. Geez. He contributed lyrics to that song. So it clearly was not about him.

As for him being a dirtbag, I do not think that a "dirtbag" would take care of the fans the way he did. I got to meet Janet because of him. I got to go to several Janet concerts for free because of him. I could have went to the tour ending party, if I hadn't screwed up. I went out with Janet in Rotterdam because of him. It was fan heaven while he was around.


Rene's name was all over that record (all of a sudden after how many years together?). Jimmy & Terry both said, "I don't remember him being around for any of the writing process".

And of course, he's going to be cool in public. At home... another story. Isn't it always that way anyway?

"What About" could have been about someone else, but she was with him a very long time. She's talking about feeling lonely in the middle of being married to him? Don't think none of that stuff on that record is not about him somewhere. They were already on the rocks by the tour.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
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Reply #10 posted 10/07/17 12:03pm

PatrickS77

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TrivialPursuit said:

PatrickS77 said:

Where did you get that?? That's total BS. Rene was still with Janet until 2 years after "What about" was released. Geez. He contributed lyrics to that song. So it clearly was not about him.

As for him being a dirtbag, I do not think that a "dirtbag" would take care of the fans the way he did. I got to meet Janet because of him. I got to go to several Janet concerts for free because of him. I could have went to the tour ending party, if I hadn't screwed up. I went out with Janet in Rotterdam because of him. It was fan heaven while he was around.


Rene's name was all over that record (all of a sudden after how many years together?). Jimmy & Terry both said, "I don't remember him being around for any of the writing process".

And of course, he's going to be cool in public. At home... another story. Isn't it always that way anyway?

"What About" could have been about someone else, but she was with him a very long time. She's talking about feeling lonely in the middle of being married to him? Don't think none of that stuff on that record is not about him somewhere. They were already on the rocks by the tour.

When he helps her with writing lyrics at home, then he doesn't need to be in the studio for Jam and Lewis to see. His contributions were always lyrics.

Being cool in public and going out of his way to make sure that fans are treated like Kings and Queens are 2 different things.

And yet, they where together for 2 more years after that song was released. If that song was about him and she released it and still stayed with him for almost 2 more years, then she's an idiot. Sorry. But I don't think she's an idiot. And at a time she stated that was about a previous relationship.

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Reply #11 posted 10/07/17 5:30pm

wonder505

Why does Rene get such a bad rap? lol
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Reply #12 posted 10/07/17 6:10pm

PatrickS77

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wonder505 said:

Why does Rene get such a bad rap? lol


I have no idea. Misinformation or lack of information, I guess. I met the guy several times (and know plenty others) and he's always been great to me.
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Reply #13 posted 10/09/17 9:45am

TrivialPursuit

Back to the dancers, last night at the Hollywood Bowl, Janet performed "Rhythm Nation" with dancers of all her tours & videos. TINA was there, as was Anthony Thomas (did all the RN1814 military type stuff), Terry Bixler (who also choreographed the chair routine from "Miss You Much"), Teresa Espinoza (swing dancer on TVR), Tish Oliver, Kelly, Nikki, Travis Payne, Tyce, Jenna Dawann (sp; Channing Tatum's wife, was also on Nsync's last tour among others), Gil (who apparently lied about his age and was 16 when he first worked with Janet, saying he was 18), and more. It was amazing. I literally started bawling when I saw Tina up there doing her "We are a part of the rhythm nation" moves with the others. There is an extended introduction section video out there as well. It was just fucking mesmerizing to see all that history on the same stage.

Shawnette wasn't there, but she's a mom, so who knows. Janet mentioned Tish is still a good friend of hers and that Tish lived with her for a while too.

All the feels today. Here's a good clip:



Dancer introductions.



There are more clips of the song on Instagram, which is where I first learned of all this when I got up today.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
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Reply #14 posted 10/10/17 12:59pm

getxxxx

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Where was Omar, one of her previous dancers - Kieth passed also.

Nick Ashford was someone I greatly admired, had the honor of knowing, and was the real-life inspiration for Cowboy Curtis' hair. RIP Nick. - Pee Wee Herman
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Reply #15 posted 10/10/17 1:26pm

TrivialPursuit

getxxxx said:

Where was Omar, one of her previous dancers - Kieth passed also.


I wondered about Omar Lopez. He was her partner in "If" wasn't he? Bald dude.

Who is Keith? I'm drawing a blank. I also didn't see Levelle Smith up there either. He was there during RN1814 and subsequently worked with MJ on many of his tours. I'd forgotten Travis Payne choreographed "Scream". He never toured with Janet, though.

Also, the twins during RN1814. They were in the long-form RN1814 video, and I think they later danced with Tina on Wildest Dreams tour in 1997. Karen and Sharon, I think. Granted, not everyone can make it.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
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Reply #16 posted 10/10/17 1:46pm

PatrickS77

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TrivialPursuit said:

getxxxx said:

Where was Omar, one of her previous dancers - Kieth passed also.


I wondered about Omar Lopez. He was her partner in "If" wasn't he? Bald dude.

Who is Keith? I'm drawing a blank. I also didn't see Levelle Smith up there either. He was there during RN1814 and subsequently worked with MJ on many of his tours. I'd forgotten Travis Payne choreographed "Scream". He never toured with Janet, though.

Also, the twins during RN1814. They were in the long-form RN1814 video, and I think they later danced with Tina on Wildest Dreams tour in 1997. Karen and Sharon, I think. Granted, not everyone can make it.

Omar was there. Lavelle is currently somewhere in China... or Japan. Don't remember.

Keith was featured prominently in the TTWLG video.

[Edited 10/10/17 13:47pm]

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Reply #17 posted 10/10/17 9:35pm

lowkey

All of the former tour dancers were invited, some couldnt make it, some has passed away.

as for rene, fans love him because they swear he did so much for them, but he was only doing what janet wanted him to do, the same thing joey the bodyguard does now...give out front row seats, arrange fans to meet her ,ect. she's not doing any fan meet and greets this tour because baby eissa is backstage. gil was upset about fans in the front row with their phones out recording the entire show instead of enjoying themselves, he said janet buys the first 2 rows and gives the tickets to fans.

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Reply #18 posted 10/10/17 10:56pm

PatrickS77

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lowkey said:

All of the former tour dancers were invited, some couldnt make it, some has passed away.


as for rene, fans love him because they swear he did so much for them, but he was only doing what janet wanted him to do, the same thing joey the bodyguard does now...give out front row seats, arrange fans to meet her ,ect. she's not doing any fan meet and greets this tour because baby eissa is backstage. gil was upset about fans in the front row with their phones out recording the entire show instead of enjoying themselves, he said janet buys the first 2 rows and gives the tickets to fans.



As someone, who has beennto every tour expect RN, let me tell you. When Rene was around things were way different. And who gives a shit about Gil? Fans taking picsnor recoeding aren't enjoying the show any less. And really, when you pay 200 $ to be there, you can enjoy that show anyway you want to. And sadly, many tickets of those first 2 rows went on sale for much higher.
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