silverchild said:

thetimefan said:

thetimefan said:

silverchild said:

I ended up doing my own 16/44 bit needledrops of their Pride/MGM albums and they sounded excellent. I did my own mixing and sound editing in post-production as well. Just so happens that those three albums are quite hard-to-find and expensive, based on their value and reputation among collectors and DJs.

[Edited 6/14/17 10:31am]

As the albums are out of print couldn't like a reissue label like Vinyl Masterpiece release the first 3 albums using the original vinyl if the masters are lost/damaged?. Which software did you use for your remasters? I'm guessing they sound really good especially if you've remastered them too. Re Black Ivory I know the You and I is different to the original. Really labels need to digitize their master tapes right now so they don't lose them. Analog tape doesn't last forever so converting the originals to a format that doesn't get damaged is essential. But say a digital archive is corrupted by a HDD crash or by a virus what would happen then?. Maybe making a new analog 1:1 master as a backup and storing it in pristine condition would be worthwhile too.

thetimefan said:

Really labels need to digitize their master tapes right now so they don't lose them. Analog tape doesn't last forever so converting the originals to a format that doesn't get damaged is essential.

If people put masters in attics and basements, they must not think they're that important. That is how the tapes for the proto-punk band Death was rediscovered, the tapes were in one of the band members attic. A big label might have high quality tape storage areas, but that might not be the case with small independent labels, in which they might be long out of business and the tapes might be in a warehouse, in someone's home, or lost.

MickyDolenz said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Or sometimes mislabeled. For decades James Brown at the Apollo Vol 1 was thought to have been lost. If was located by accident believing to be a Max Roach recording.

The Wattstax movie was thought to be lost until the film reels were found unlabeled in (I think) an office building. A lot of old TV shows were erased and tapes reused so the TV networks could save money because at the time they didn't think the shows had any future value, especially music programs. This happened to many pre-1970s American Bandstand episodes. Back then, there was no home video market and few channels, so most shows were not rerun in syndication. So it made sense to the networks to reuse the tapes.

I heard Sylvers I, II and III. They are all over the internet, especially on blogspot. What I want to hear is the last real album they made on Pride called Sylvers IV. That was the album that was going to come out in 1975 or early 1976, before they switched labels and went bubblegum. A guy on youtube claims to have seen a promo copy of it.

TheThem said:

I heard Sylvers I, II and III. They are all over the internet, especially on blogspot. What I want to hear is the last real album they made on Pride called Sylvers IV. That was the album that was going to come out in 1975 or early 1976, before they switched labels and went bubblegum. A guy on youtube claims to have seen a promo copy of it.

Hmm, I never heard a story of Sylvers IV being available. Just that it got pulled as they lefy for a bigger label.

HEll, they can put the 4 Sylvers records plus the 2 by Foster in a set.

MickyDolenz said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Or sometimes mislabeled. For decades James Brown at the Apollo Vol 1 was thought to have been lost. If was located by accident believing to be a Max Roach recording.

The Wattstax movie was thought to be lost until the film reels were found unlabeled in (I think) an office building. A lot of old TV shows were erased and tapes reused so the TV networks could save money because at the time they didn't think the shows had any future value, especially music programs. This happened to many pre-1970s American Bandstand episodes. Back then, there was no home video market and few channels, so most shows were not rerun in syndication. So it made sense to the networks to reuse the tapes.

Ialways find that crazy (no absolutely stupid) that they didn't think stuff that was recorded didn't have any replay value. It's like they waste all this time and money for these big productions. And then after they're done with it just get rid of it? WHat were they thinking? Not at all.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Ialways find that crazy (no absolutely stupid) that they didn't think stuff that was recorded didn't have any replay value. It's like they waste all this time and money for these big productions. And then after they're done with it just get rid of it? WHat were they thinking? Not at all.

Well that could be said about Broadway plays. They usually aren't filmed. A lot of those Hollywood musical movies were originally stage plays. Many old Hollywood movies were lost too because they weren't stored well, and the earlier movies had a kind of film stock that would deteriorate after awhile. I think it was Martin Scorsese who started this company to find and restore silent movies. In some cases, only portions of the silents could be found, not the complete movies. But the majority are lost. You also have to remember the networks at the time were run by older guys who thought that rock n roll was a fad with a short shelf life and didn't really care about saving these kind of shows with a mainly teen audience. They didn't do that with Lawrence Welk's show. It's still rerun on PBS today.

MickyDolenz said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Well a play is different just like a concert. You have an audience who oays for it. With thise older television shows audience was not paying for those they are watching on TV in primetime.

But they had no idea that there was going to be home video in the future. It was just tape taking up space. Most early TV shows when it was first invented weren't filmed at all. They were broadcast live with flubbed lines and all and that was it. It was closer to watching a play at home. It's like in the early days of the recording industry, there was no recording tape or microphones, and a singer/band had to perform for each copy of a record, hundreds and even thousands of times if the record sold well. They also had to sing loud enough so their voice would be picked up by the machine cutting a groove into the record. So really, no one actually had the same version of a song. The customer had a different unique take.

70s soul flashback: "Wish That I Could Talk To You" by The Sylvers (1972)

MickyDolenz said:

thetimefan said:

This may have been a more prevent practice for independent labels instead of like RCA where a surprisingly large amount of Elvis out takes have survived.

Elvis is very well known and is a brand. The Sylvers not so much. There's folks who are willing to buy CDs of Elvis & Beatles alternate & flubbed takes. I remember there was a store in the mall that sold all kind of things with old stars like Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, James Dean, John Wayne, Lucille Ball, 60's Star Trek, etc. Like posters, clocks, telephones, key chains, games, dishes, paintings, and other merchandise. Many people visit Graceland each year and his movies are still shown on TV. So I'm pretty sure that RCA isn't going to throw out or tape over Elvis Presley masters.

TheThem said:

I heard Sylvers I, II and III. They are all over the internet, especially on blogspot. What I want to hear is the last real album they made on Pride called Sylvers IV. That was the album that was going to come out in 1975 or early 1976, before they switched labels and went bubblegum. A guy on youtube claims to have seen a promo copy of it.

That album was released.... promo, limited release. I saw the album a Wax Records, in Chicago in 1988. Didn't have any money, called myself hiding is amongst some other albums.... it was gone. I know the guy you are speaking, he's correct.

TD3 said:

TheThem said:

I heard Sylvers I, II and III. They are all over the internet, especially on blogspot. What I want to hear is the last real album they made on Pride called Sylvers IV. That was the album that was going to come out in 1975 or early 1976, before they switched labels and went bubblegum. A guy on youtube claims to have seen a promo copy of it.

That album was released.... promo, limited release. I saw the album a Wax Records, in Chicago in 1988. Didn't have any money, called myself hiding is amongst some other albums.... it was gone. I know the guy you are speaking, he's correct.

see,this is the kinda stuff that intrigues me I love hearing about rare,unreleased or otherwise hard to find albums.Any more details? Tracklist?

SoulAlive said:

TD3 said:

That album was released.... promo, limited release. I saw the album a Wax Records, in Chicago in 1988. Didn't have any money, called myself hiding is amongst some other albums.... when I returned it was gone. I know the guy you are speaking, he's correct.

see,this is the kinda stuff that intrigues me I love hearing about rare,unreleased or otherwise hard to find albums.Any more details? Tracklist?

I'm sorry to say I don't. I know their mom was apart of the project, they were all on the cover with light yellow backdrop? Needless to say, 1988 memory has dulled to recall much about the album. I did find a rare 45 with "Stay Away From Me" ... the B side was an instrumenta. Someone told me it was a UK release but I'm still researching that.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

How did you even find that? It's not even listed as an official release let alone a bootleg on most websites.

Maybe it was a promo. Some record stores (not the chain kind like Sam Goody) used to sell promo records and even what I call "fake interview" albums. It's a record for radio DJs with a sheet of questions and the record has the act saying the answers with a pause for the DJ to ask the pre-written questions. I bought a promo vinyl of an album by a girl group called LuvHer in a local record store years ago. It had no cover art and was just in a plain black cover with a hole in the center so you can see the label like some maxi singles came in. The album was never released and they only had 1 single that came out officially, and I guess the group was dropped. I also have some promo maxi singles with remixes that were not commercially released like the long version of Did I Hear You Say You Love Me by Stevie Wonder. Here's an example of an interview record someone posted on Youtube.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

MickyDolenz said:

The Wattstax movie was thought to be lost until the film reels were found unlabeled in (I think) an office building. A lot of old TV shows were erased and tapes reused so the TV networks could save money because at the time they didn't think the shows had any future value, especially music programs. This happened to many pre-1970s American Bandstand episodes. Back then, there was no home video market and few channels, so most shows were not rerun in syndication. So it made sense to the networks to reuse the tapes.

Ialways find that crazy (no absolutely stupid) that they didn't think stuff that was recorded didn't have any replay value. It's like they waste all this time and money for these big productions. And then after they're done with it just get rid of it? WHat were they thinking? Not at all.

.

Working in recording studios in LA on a budget, we often bought used 2-inch tape. Hey, it was $75 a reel compared to $150 to $200 new, and we only had like $2000 total to spend on making a record.

.

The engineers would always pop the reels on to see if there was anything interesting on them, before erasing them. One time they ended up with the multi tracks to the Chili Peppers' Blood Sugar Sex Magic, presumably a safety copy. The engineer bought new tape for the session, out of his pocket, and proceeded to make his own mix of the Peppers album. I knew another guy who bought used tape that contained the multi- tracks for the first Doors album on just four tracks.

.

I just read a story about the band Husker Du recording their most classic album Zen Arcade on used tape, that turned out to be the multi-track masters from a Bee Gees live Christmas special. I guess after the show was mixed & aired, they figured they didn't need it any more.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

How did you even find that? It's not even listed as an official release let alone a bootleg on most websites.

The instrumental of Stay Away From Me? British guy told me about the B-side decades ago. I keep searching... word of mouth and "vinyl parties". A guy bought a bunch of records from an estate sale in Columbus Ohio... the 45 was among those records.

If your speaking of the fabled 4th album purely by luck. Routine shopping to Wax Records.I do recall the asking the cleric and he just shrugged.

=============================

[Edited 6/22/17 14:37pm]

bobzilla77 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Ialways find that crazy (no absolutely stupid) that they didn't think stuff that was recorded didn't have any replay value. It's like they waste all this time and money for these big productions. And then after they're done with it just get rid of it? WHat were they thinking? Not at all.

.

Working in recording studios in LA on a budget, we often bought used 2-inch tape. Hey, it was $75 a reel compared to $150 to $200 new, and we only had like $2000 total to spend on making a record.

.

The engineers would always pop the reels on to see if there was anything interesting on them, before erasing them. One time they ended up with the multi tracks to the Chili Peppers' Blood Sugar Sex Magic, presumably a safety copy. The engineer bought new tape for the session, out of his pocket, and proceeded to make his own mix of the Peppers album. I knew another guy who bought used tape that contained the multi- tracks for the first Doors album on just four tracks.

.

I just read a story about the band Husker Du recording their most classic album Zen Arcade on used tape, that turned out to be the multi-track masters from a Bee Gees live Christmas special. I guess after the show was mixed & aired, they figured they didn't need it any more.

So the tapes were already baked then

[Edited 6/22/17 18:00pm]

MickyDolenz said:

0:00 - I Aim to Please
3:05 - Could Be You
7:22 - Wish You Were Here
9:43 - Don't Give Up the Good Life
12:39 - Even This Shall Pass Away
16:30 - Am I Truly Yours
20:05 - Be My Love
23:10 - Love Over Mind
26:51 - What's It All About
29:24 - TCB

TD3 said:

SoulAlive said:

see,this is the kinda stuff that intrigues me I love hearing about rare,unreleased or otherwise hard to find albums.Any more details? Tracklist?

I'm sorry to say I don't. I know their mom was apart of the project, they were all on the cover with light yellow backdrop? Needless to say, 1988 memory has dulled to recall much about the album. I did find a rare 45 with "Stay Away From Me" ... the B side was an instrumenta. Someone told me it was a UK release but I'm still researching that.

Yes I do recall the guy on youtube saying it had their mother Shirley Sylvers on the cover.

Petition Release "The Syl...bums on CD

To: Universal Music Group, Geffen, EMI and Capitol Records

Dear Respective Catalog Owners,
I've been a fan of the great musical family The Sylvers for years! However, I'm saddened by the fact that only 3 of their 10 studio albums are issued on CD (same for most of their solo work). Not to mention the group's first 3 albums are scarce and expensive even in used vinyl form. I think it's deplorable that all of that beautiful music is stuck on vinyl! I also find that I'm not alone in that frustration. Fans aren't exactly satisfied with the few 'Best Of' or 'Greatest Hits' collections available on CD. We want a proper and more accessible showcase for their music.

From 1972-1985 this family gifted us an amazing body of evergreen music. Their astounding harmony sold millions of records and put several singles on the charts, including the immortal "Boogie Fever"! They absolutely rank among the top of great family musical groups. The group wrote most of their music and it's where super producer Leon Sylvers got his start. Through various samples using their timeless music, most notably "Misdemeanor" by Foster Sylvers and TV One's show "Unsung" they're gaining even more fans. They are still fondly remembered and happily re-discovered by music fans for their versatile music, style and beauty.

Many fans are wanting to have their albums reissued/remastered! The Sylvers have left a legacy that should not be kept from current and future generations who truly want great and meaningful music. Simply put I can't stand the silencing of them anymore! Fans join in support of this music being re-released, plus any unreleased material owned by their respective companies!

The albums are:
The Sylvers
1972 "The Sylvers" Pride
1973 "The Sylvers II" Pride
1974 "The Sylvers III" MGM

1976 "Something Special" Capitol

1978 "Forever Yours" Casablanca
1979 "Disco Fever" Casablanca
1984 "Bizarre" Geffen

Solo Works
Edmund Sylvers
1980 "Have You Heard" Casablanca
Foster Sylvers
1973 "Foster Sylvers" Pride
1974 "Foster Sylvers Featuring Pat & Angie Sylvers" MGM
1978 "Foster Sylvers (1978)" Capitol
1987 "Plain & Simple" EMI America

SoulAlive said:

Petition Release "The Syl...bums on CD

To: Universal Music Group, Geffen, EMI and Capitol Records

Dear Respective Catalog Owners,
I've been a fan of the great musical family The Sylvers for years! However, I'm saddened by the fact that only 3 of their 10 studio albums are issued on CD (same for most of their solo work). Not to mention the group's first 3 albums are scarce and expensive even in used vinyl form. I think it's deplorable that all of that beautiful music is stuck on vinyl! I also find that I'm not alone in that frustration. Fans aren't exactly satisfied with the few 'Best Of' or 'Greatest Hits' collections available on CD. We want a proper and more accessible showcase for their music.

From 1972-1985 this family gifted us an amazing body of evergreen music. Their astounding harmony sold millions of records and put several singles on the charts, including the immortal "Boogie Fever"! They absolutely rank among the top of great family musical groups. The group wrote most of their music and it's where super producer Leon Sylvers got his start. Through various samples using their timeless music, most notably "Misdemeanor" by Foster Sylvers and TV One's show "Unsung" they're gaining even more fans. They are still fondly remembered and happily re-discovered by music fans for their versatile music, style and beauty.

Many fans are wanting to have their albums reissued/remastered! The Sylvers have left a legacy that should not be kept from current and future generations who truly want great and meaningful music. Simply put I can't stand the silencing of them anymore! Fans join in support of this music being re-released, plus any unreleased material owned by their respective companies!

The albums are:
The Sylvers
1972 "The Sylvers" Pride
1973 "The Sylvers II" Pride
1974 "The Sylvers III" MGM

1976 "Something Special" Capitol

1978 "Forever Yours" Casablanca
1979 "Disco Fever" Casablanca
1984 "Bizarre" Geffen

Solo Works
Edmund Sylvers
1980 "Have You Heard" Casablanca
Foster Sylvers
1973 "Foster Sylvers" Pride
1974 "Foster Sylvers Featuring Pat & Angie Sylvers" MGM
1978 "Foster Sylvers (1978)" Capitol
1987 "Plain & Simple" EMI America

THANK YOU