ThePanther said:

liljojo said:

Prince Roger Nelson was been one of the top musicians ever to grace the music world you all know his accomplishments and speak on them every chance. But what we don't speak about is his importance on being free to make money off your own talent.

Michael Joseph Jackson was another musical genius to grace the music world and his accomplishments speak for themselves also. But again we don't speak about his importance on making money off your own talent.

Some orgers fuss and fight over simple dumb media bad journalism articles on both artists and make dumb MJ vs Prince articles but lets see how both artist became enemies of not just the music world but of rich racism people with slave mentality.

Let the pissing off folks begin!!!!!

Michael Jackson released the Off The Wall album, that many people was said to be one of the best albums out of his catalogue. Which had 4 top 10 singles (Rock With, DSTYGE, Off The Wall [My personal favorite], and She's Out Of My Life). Many including Michael himself thought he should have earned more awards and acknowledgement. But because he was black he didn't receive the just do for his work. After being unhappy about this, he came up with a plan that produced Thriller. Thriller unexpectedly became waaaay too huge for the a black artist in the music industry breaking elvis record sells which mad a lot of people angry. So how can they knock MJ off without another racial outcry from blacks and fair minded caucasians like David Bowie? Use another upcoming raising star, Prince Roger Nelson.

Prince Nelson, a talented super talented musician who honestly was being ignored for from the albums For You – 1999, and which I think he put out some of his best music. When Prince released Purple Rain the movie and soundtrack, he got so much support it surprised him. Trust me going from barely selling 4 million albums of 1999 to 13 million was an amazing accomplishment. But unlike MJ, Prince wasn’t about to follow the rules and shut up and be humble. Prince didn’t participate in the several events that the industry world wanted him including the We Are The World foundation song. This truly pissed the industry off and caused a horrible backlash. Let the drama begin……. On my next post!!!

Sidenote: For those who don’t know about David Bowie interview with MTV asking why they don’t play more black artist, the beatles on why Motown music not being respected when the black artist performs but when they perform white America jump on it. Do some research and you will see how they took a stand and why the black community have such a very hard time accepted Elvis, whom never spoke up for black artists being treated unfairly smdh.

[Edited 6/7/17 16:26pm]

This is one of the most uninformed posts I've seen on here.

If your thesis is that the world (particularly the US, in this case) is racist and that African-Americans often suffer from it -- BINGO!! We have a winner! Congrats on making it to junior-high school, but I don't think you're telling us anything we don't know.

Then, the idea of "Prince... mak[ing] money off his own talent". I'm guessing you're American and like the myth of the self-made man if you actually think that is in any way realistic. It's not. Prince was perfectly free in his youth to not sign a record-deal and try making money off his own talent without a record label. Had he done so, he might still be alive today but he'd be working at Wendy's, serving burgers (or maybe he'd have gone to college and would now be a low-level executive at a Minneapolis tire-supplier).

Next: You claim that Michael Jackson's sales (might want to work on your spelling) were more than Elvis's, which made a lot of people angry. Who exactly did this make angry? I know of no one.

Then, why of all things are you raising the issue of 'We Are the World' as something that pissed off the music industry against Prince? If you didn't notice, 'We Are the World' was essentially a black record -- written by two black guys, produced by a black guy, and featured a cavalcade of black vocalists. The reaction against Prince's deciding to go clubbing instead of swallowing his ego and joining in for a few hours had absolutely nothing to do with race.

I have noticed that "the black community" (nebulous concept at best) does have a hard time dealing with Elvis. I don't know why. Elvis was a white southerner, so there's that -- but as white southerners go, he was unusually gracious to blacks and never had anything bad to say about 'the black community'. He said nice things about blacks many times, gave credit to them for most of his inspirations, and hired several blacks in his backing groups.

Anyway, your posts is silly and inaccurate. Prince and Michael Jackson were not slaves, and to use that word to describe them would be, I imagine, rather offensive to a lot of people who understand what real slavery was/is.

I actually think this post is very uninformed.

You don't sound that familiar with the Black community so you probably shouldn't speak about something you are unfamiliar with, also, Elvis is not respected in Black culture because of what his brand represented in the 1950's. He was pretty much created to be a white water down version of Black talent. He was inspired by Black artists and performers but that still doesn't change that fact. The true pioneers of Rock N Roll got swept under the rug and didn't get the proper recognition that Elvis unfairly took way from them. He has never properly acknowledge the discrimination and unfair recognition that Black musicians in Rock N Roll received so you saying he is "gracious" toward these artists is an exaggeration.

Also, I actually agree with the metaphor the OP use to describe the way MJ and Prince were treated. Prince and MJ weren't given a choice. In Prince case, He had to serve the establishment or lose himself. He decided to give up his fame, government name, fortune, freedom as a stand against this injustice. Slavery, racism, discrimination, bigotry, subordination, etc has always been used as a way to control, marginalize and divide African Americans and this same idea is also embedded in the establishment and industry. They have also used these same methods to control and disempower Black musicians and artists in the industry. As a Black woman, I personally didn't find the metaphor offensive because in way they were slaves to the industry, MJ particularly. Having to constantly work, perform, entertain,make money for the White man (although you dont want too) for an establishment that defames, slander and hurts you. He unfornately ended up dying as a result. They were heros because they tried to fight for their freedom and they spoke up against this unfair treatment toward Black artists. THAT is what you do when you advocate and put your reputation on the line for a cause. This new claim that Elvis advocated and heavily supported Black musicians, songwriters, etc is a MAJOR exaggeration.

[Edited 6/9/17 3:29am]

mjscarousal said:

I actually think this post is very uninformed.

You don't sound that familiar with the Black community so you probably shouldn't speak about something you are unfamiliar with, also, Elvis is not respected in Black culture because of what his brand represented in the 1950's. He was pretty much created to be a white water down version of Black talent. He was inspired by Black artists and performers but that still doesn't change that fact. The true pioneers of Rock N Roll got swept under the rug and didn't get the proper recognition that Elvis unfairly took way from them. He has never properly acknowledge the discrimination and unfair recognition that Black musicians in Rock N Roll received so you saying he is "gracious" toward these artists is an exaggeration.

Also, I actually agree with the metaphor the OP use to describe the way MJ and Prince were treated. Prince and MJ weren't given a choice. In Prince case, He had to serve the establishment or lose himself. He decided to give up his fame, government name, fortune, freedom as a stand against this injustice. Slavery, racism, discrimination, bigotry, subordination, etc has always been used as a way to control, marginalize and divide African Americans and this same idea is also embedded in the establishment and industry. They have also used these same methods to control and disempower Black musicians and artists in the industry. As a Black woman, I personally didn't find the metaphor offensive because in way they were slaves to the industry, MJ particularly. Having to constantly work, perform, entertain,make money for the White man (although you dont want too) for an establishment that defames, slander and hurts you. He unfornately ended up dying as a result. They were heros because they tried to fight for their freedom and they spoke up against this unfair treatment toward Black artists. THAT is what you do when you advocate and put your reputation on the line for a cause. This new claim that Elvis advocated and heavily supported Black musicians, songwriters, etc is a MAJOR exaggeration.

[Edited 6/9/17 3:29am]

No, I think your post is uninformed. Here is a piece written in the New York Times - "How Did Elvis
Get Turned Into a Racist?" - and I think it'll provide historical context into why many Black Americans
don't consider him to be "my king" and what Presley's response was to being called the King of Rock
n Roll.

As a Black American, I too, didn't find the slavery metaphor utterly offensive. But, what I think is
more annoying is your automatic genuflecting at the base of your Prince and Michael Jackson idols
whenever those two are mentioned because they were "heros {sic} (who) tried to fight for

their freedom and they spoke up against this unfair treatment toward Black artists. THAT is what
you do when you advocate and put your reputation on the line for a cause." Puh-leeze. The suit
who told MTV he would pull all of his label's acts from that channel if they didn't play Michael Jack-
son's music videos was not doing so because he and and MJ were chiefly fighting for the rights of
other Black American recording artists who were being shunned by racist cable TV programmers.
And Prince wasn't chiefly interested in fighting for his rights as a recording artist who is able to con-
trol his own masters and publishing.

It's always about cash first when you're talking about anything related to "business" and that is pre-
cisely why Prince and Michael Jackson were often at odds with the recording industry - not because
of some sort of self-sacrificing and/or martyrdom for the greater good.

liljojo said:

Prince Roger Nelson was been one of the top musicians ever to grace the music world you all know his accomplishments and speak on them every chance. But what we don't speak about is his importance on being free to make money off your own talent.

Michael Joseph Jackson was another musical genius to grace the music world and his accomplishments speak for themselves also. But again we don't speak about his importance on making money off your own talent.

Some orgers fuss and fight over simple dumb media bad journalism articles on both artists and make dumb MJ vs Prince articles but lets see how both artist became enemies of not just the music world but of rich racism people with slave mentality.

Let the pissing off folks begin!!!!!

Michael Jackson released the Off The Wall album, that many people was said to be one of the best albums out of his catalogue. Which had 4 top 10 singles (Rock With, DSTYGE, Off The Wall [My personal favorite], and She's Out Of My Life). Many including Michael himself thought he should have earned more awards and acknowledgement. But because he was black he didn't receive the just do for his work. After being unhappy about this, he came up with a plan that produced Thriller. Thriller unexpectedly became waaaay too huge for the a black artist in the music industry breaking elvis record sells which mad a lot of people angry. So how can they knock MJ off without another racial outcry from blacks and fair minded caucasians like David Bowie? Use another upcoming raising star, Prince Roger Nelson.

Prince Nelson, a talented super talented musician who honestly was being ignored for from the albums For You – 1999, and which I think he put out some of his best music. When Prince released Purple Rain the movie and soundtrack, he got so much support it surprised him. Trust me going from barely selling 4 million albums of 1999 to 13 million was an amazing accomplishment. But unlike MJ, Prince wasn’t about to follow the rules and shut up and be humble. Prince didn’t participate in the several events that the industry world wanted him including the We Are The World foundation song. This truly pissed the industry off and caused a horrible backlash. Let the drama begin……. On my next post!!!

Sidenote: For those who don’t know about David Bowie interview with MTV asking why they don’t play more black artist, the beatles on why Motown music not being respected when the black artist performs but when they perform white America jump on it. Do some research and you will see how they took a stand and why the black community have such a very hard time accepted Elvis, whom never spoke up for black artists being treated unfairly smdh.

[Edited 6/7/17 16:26pm]

Hmmm...You know that these are white people that payed payola in order to make the 4 OFF THE WALL singles top 10 right ? And same thing with Purple Rain ? And same thing with Thriller ? Same thing with Bad ? etc.

.

Or are you just ignoring the facts that totally contradicts your theory ?

RODSERLING said:

liljojo said:

Prince Roger Nelson was been one of the top musicians ever to grace the music world you all know his accomplishments and speak on them every chance. But what we don't speak about is his importance on being free to make money off your own talent.

Michael Joseph Jackson was another musical genius to grace the music world and his accomplishments speak for themselves also. But again we don't speak about his importance on making money off your own talent.

Some orgers fuss and fight over simple dumb media bad journalism articles on both artists and make dumb MJ vs Prince articles but lets see how both artist became enemies of not just the music world but of rich racism people with slave mentality.

Let the pissing off folks begin!!!!!

Michael Jackson released the Off The Wall album, that many people was said to be one of the best albums out of his catalogue. Which had 4 top 10 singles (Rock With, DSTYGE, Off The Wall [My personal favorite], and She's Out Of My Life). Many including Michael himself thought he should have earned more awards and acknowledgement. But because he was black he didn't receive the just do for his work. After being unhappy about this, he came up with a plan that produced Thriller. Thriller unexpectedly became waaaay too huge for the a black artist in the music industry breaking elvis record sells which mad a lot of people angry. So how can they knock MJ off without another racial outcry from blacks and fair minded caucasians like David Bowie? Use another upcoming raising star, Prince Roger Nelson.

Prince Nelson, a talented super talented musician who honestly was being ignored for from the albums For You – 1999, and which I think he put out some of his best music. When Prince released Purple Rain the movie and soundtrack, he got so much support it surprised him. Trust me going from barely selling 4 million albums of 1999 to 13 million was an amazing accomplishment. But unlike MJ, Prince wasn’t about to follow the rules and shut up and be humble. Prince didn’t participate in the several events that the industry world wanted him including the We Are The World foundation song. This truly pissed the industry off and caused a horrible backlash. Let the drama begin……. On my next post!!!

Sidenote: For those who don’t know about David Bowie interview with MTV asking why they don’t play more black artist, the beatles on why Motown music not being respected when the black artist performs but when they perform white America jump on it. Do some research and you will see how they took a stand and why the black community have such a very hard time accepted Elvis, whom never spoke up for black artists being treated unfairly smdh.

[Edited 6/7/17 16:26pm]

Hmmm...You know that these are white people that payed payola in order to make the 4 OFF THE WALL singles top 10 right ? And same thing with Purple Rain ? And same thing with Thriller ? Same thing with Bad ? etc.

.

Or are you just ignoring the facts that totally contradicts your theory ?

Are you really insisting Off the Wall, Thriller, BAD, Purple Rain was successful because of payola? Really? MJ and Prince were cross over acts and the industry/white people loved them BEFORE they began to use their platform to speak the truth about how racist the industry and establishment is and the industry tore them down (so how is that contradicting?).

[Edited 6/9/17 5:13am]

Dasein said:

mjscarousal said:

I actually think this post is very uninformed.

You don't sound that familiar with the Black community so you probably shouldn't speak about something you are unfamiliar with, also, Elvis is not respected in Black culture because of what his brand represented in the 1950's. He was pretty much created to be a white water down version of Black talent. He was inspired by Black artists and performers but that still doesn't change that fact. The true pioneers of Rock N Roll got swept under the rug and didn't get the proper recognition that Elvis unfairly took way from them. He has never properly acknowledge the discrimination and unfair recognition that Black musicians in Rock N Roll received so you saying he is "gracious" toward these artists is an exaggeration.

Also, I actually agree with the metaphor the OP use to describe the way MJ and Prince were treated. Prince and MJ weren't given a choice. In Prince case, He had to serve the establishment or lose himself. He decided to give up his fame, government name, fortune, freedom as a stand against this injustice. Slavery, racism, discrimination, bigotry, subordination, etc has always been used as a way to control, marginalize and divide African Americans and this same idea is also embedded in the establishment and industry. They have also used these same methods to control and disempower Black musicians and artists in the industry. As a Black woman, I personally didn't find the metaphor offensive because in way they were slaves to the industry, MJ particularly. Having to constantly work, perform, entertain,make money for the White man (although you dont want too) for an establishment that defames, slander and hurts you. He unfornately ended up dying as a result. They were heros because they tried to fight for their freedom and they spoke up against this unfair treatment toward Black artists. THAT is what you do when you advocate and put your reputation on the line for a cause. This new claim that Elvis advocated and heavily supported Black musicians, songwriters, etc is a MAJOR exaggeration.

[Edited 6/9/17 3:29am]

No, I think your post is uninformed. Here is a piece written in the New York Times - "How Did Elvis
Get Turned Into a Racist?" - and I think it'll provide historical context into why many Black Americans
don't consider him to be "my king" and what Presley's response was to being called the King of Rock
n Roll.

As a Black American, I too, didn't find the slavery metaphor utterly offensive. But, what I think is
more annoying is your automatic genuflecting at the base of your Prince and Michael Jackson idols
whenever those two are mentioned because they were "heros {sic} (who) tried to fight for

their freedom and they spoke up against this unfair treatment toward Black artists. THAT is what
you do when you advocate and put your reputation on the line for a cause." Puh-leeze. The suit
who told MTV he would pull all of his label's acts from that channel if they didn't play Michael Jack-
son's music videos was not doing so because he and and MJ were chiefly fighting for the rights of
other Black American recording artists who were being shunned by racist cable TV programmers.
And Prince wasn't chiefly interested in fighting for his rights as a recording artist who is able to con-
trol his own masters and publishing.

It's always about cash first when you're talking about anything related to "business" and that is pre-
cisely why Prince and Michael Jackson were often at odds with the recording industry - not because
of some sort of self-sacrificing and/or martyrdom for the greater good.

You really think MJ wrote "They Dont Really Care About Us" because he wanted money? The song was banned from the radio and he lost money and he was not at odds with his label.

You really think Prince was thinking about money when he changed his government iconic name and fought his commercial label? He LOST money and clout? Prince was always socially conscious way before his fall out with his label.

I need a video, speech or direct quote that Elvis gave to masses, industry, etc about the discrimination and marginalize treatment of African American musicians. I NEED a quote from a major mainstream magazine or TV special where Elvis says on live television that Black songwriters and musicians write his music, and that the industry is racist towards Black artists AND that he is not the King of Rock N Roll and Chuck Berry and Little Richard is. If somebody can provide these substantial receipts I will retract my comments and say Elvis advocated for Black musicians because doing these things is REAL ADVOCATING. NOT taking a photo with Jackie Wilson, NOT saying you admire Jackie Wilson. Putting your reputation and status on the line to acknowledge a inequality or a group of people that are disempowered and speaking to the ones that marginalize them, using your platform to make more awareness to a problem and actively trying to minimize the issue, thats advocating. That article you posted proves nothing.

[Edited 6/9/17 5:34am]

mjscarousal said:

RODSERLING said:

Hmmm...You know that these are white people that payed payola in order to make the 4 OFF THE WALL singles top 10 right ? And same thing with Purple Rain ? And same thing with Thriller ? Same thing with Bad ? etc.

.

Or are you just ignoring the facts that totally contradicts your theory ?

Are you really insisting Off the Wall, Thriller, BAD, Purple Rain was successful because of payola? Really? MJ and Prince were cross over acts and the industry/white people loved them BEFORE they began to use their platform to speak the truth about how racist the industry and establishment is and the industry tore them down (so how is that contradicting?).

[Edited 6/9/17 5:13am]

Every artist become famous thanks to payola...Or else it would be a mess on the radio : every radio would be able to play massively different songs of the same album at the same time...There would be no real hits...Sadly or not, this is not the world we are living.

.

MJ was famous before OFF THE WALL, so he had already an audience. But it was thanks to payola at the first place, yes, even when he was with the J5. You can't have a top 40 without payola, sponsoring, etc. This has never been possible in the world we are living.

.

Even for Prince when he released TMBGITW, that cost him 2 million dollars in payola.

Prince even get caught in the Uk with Good Life !

.

It was Frank Dileo's job to make MJ's singles successful on american radio for Thriller and Bad. That's why when MJ fired him, LIBERIAN GIRL and LEAVE ME ALONE were not released in the US.

.

You should look closely at that part of history.

.

Jimi Hendrix and Bob Marley were glorified by white medias all over the world long before there were Prince and MJ on MTV.

Slaves my ass.

mjscarousal said:

Dasein said:

No, I think your post is uninformed. Here is a piece written in the New York Times - "How Did Elvis
Get Turned Into a Racist?" - and I think it'll provide historical context into why many Black Americans
don't consider him to be "my king" and what Presley's response was to being called the King of Rock
n Roll.

As a Black American, I too, didn't find the slavery metaphor utterly offensive. But, what I think is
more annoying is your automatic genuflecting at the base of your Prince and Michael Jackson idols
whenever those two are mentioned because they were "heros {sic} (who) tried to fight for

their freedom and they spoke up against this unfair treatment toward Black artists. THAT is what
you do when you advocate and put your reputation on the line for a cause." Puh-leeze. The suit
who told MTV he would pull all of his label's acts from that channel if they didn't play Michael Jack-
son's music videos was not doing so because he and and MJ were chiefly fighting for the rights of
other Black American recording artists who were being shunned by racist cable TV programmers.
And Prince wasn't chiefly interested in fighting for his rights as a recording artist who is able to con-
trol his own masters and publishing.

It's always about cash first when you're talking about anything related to "business" and that is pre-
cisely why Prince and Michael Jackson were often at odds with the recording industry - not because
of some sort of self-sacrificing and/or martyrdom for the greater good.

You really think MJ wrote "They Dont Really Care About Us" because he wanted money? The song was banned from the radio and he lost money and he was not at odds with his label.

You really think Prince was thinking about money when he changed his government iconic name and fought his commercial label? He LOST money and clout? Prince was always socially conscious way before his fall out with his label.

I need a video, speech or direct quote that Elvis gave to masses, industry, etc about the discrimination and marginalize treatment of African American musicians. I NEED a quote from a major mainstream magazine or TV special where Elvis says on live television that Black songwriters and musicians write his music, and that the industry is racist towards Black artists AND that he is not the King of Rock N Roll and Chuck Berry and Little Richard is. If somebody can provide these substantial receipts I will retract my comments and say Elvis advocated for Black musicians because doing these things is REAL ADVOCATING. NOT taking a photo with Jackie Wilson, NOT saying you admire Jackie Wilson. Putting your reputation and status on the line to acknowledge a inequality or a group of people that are disempowered and speaking to the ones that marginalize them, using your platform to make more awareness to a problem and actively trying to minimize the issue, thats advocating. That article you posted proves nothing.

[Edited 6/9/17 5:34am]

Chile, please.

Don't make it seem like just because Michael fucking Jackson wrote a song criticizing socio-economic
and policital injustices means he's chiefly concerned with selflessly advocating for the betterment of
all those marginalized and oppressed and in the same lineage as King and others. No; he and Prince
are performers who made their scrilla first then they began to articulate some disdain for the in-
equalities they endured as Black American recording artists.

And, if you had read the NY Times piece, you'd understand that Elvis Presley was not a racist and
deferred to the Black American recording artists he was indebted to when he was referred to as the
"King of Rock n Roll" by white media outlets.

RODSERLING said:

mjscarousal said:

Are you really insisting Off the Wall, Thriller, BAD, Purple Rain was successful because of payola? Really? MJ and Prince were cross over acts and the industry/white people loved them BEFORE they began to use their platform to speak the truth about how racist the industry and establishment is and the industry tore them down (so how is that contradicting?).

[Edited 6/9/17 5:13am]

Every artist become famous thanks to payola...Or else it would be a mess on the radio : every radio would be able to play massively different songs of the same album at the same time...There would be no real hits...Sadly or not, this is not the world we are living.

.

MJ was famous before OFF THE WALL, so he had already an audience. But it was thanks to payola at the first place, yes, even when he was with the J5. You can't have a top 40 without payola, sponsoring, etc. This has never been possible in the world we are living.

.

Even for Prince when he released TMBGITW, that cost him 2 million dollars in payola.

Prince even get caught in the Uk with Good Life !

.

It was Frank Dileo's job to make MJ's singles successful on american radio for Thriller and Bad. That's why when MJ fired him, LIBERIAN GIRL and LEAVE ME ALONE were not released in the US.

.

You should look closely at that part of history.

.

Jimi Hendrix and Bob Marley were glorified by white medias all over the world long before there were Prince and MJ on MTV.

Bolded is completely a false assumption and generalization.

There are artists that have had Top 40 hits without Payola. Adele anyone? When her 21 album first came out it became successful through word of mouth. To an extent you are right about payola, however, you are giving it way to much credit in the successes of Thriller, Off the Wall and Purple Rain etc.

Audiences during this period had more control over what got played on the radio and they were more involved in the success of albums. BOTTOM line, those albums were major successes becase they were stellar albums that people loved, not solely because of payola. The album sells speaks for itself so you can't give ALL the credit to payola.These albumsweren't forced down the masses ears, they were popular because people liked them and that is why they were successful. There is definitly more use of Payola now more than ever in this generation. Nobody wants to hear this trash that gets constantly played in rotation over and over again and I know its payola because these songs don't chart high and the music is not selling. This is a better definition of payola.

No, you need to look more closely at how Black artists were treated by the industry historically instead of using this payola argument as a crutch.

Dasein said:

mjscarousal said:

You really think MJ wrote "They Dont Really Care About Us" because he wanted money? The song was banned from the radio and he lost money and he was not at odds with his label.

You really think Prince was thinking about money when he changed his government iconic name and fought his commercial label? He LOST money and clout? Prince was always socially conscious way before his fall out with his label.

I need a video, speech or direct quote that Elvis gave to masses, industry, etc about the discrimination and marginalize treatment of African American musicians. I NEED a quote from a major mainstream magazine or TV special where Elvis says on live television that Black songwriters and musicians write his music, and that the industry is racist towards Black artists AND that he is not the King of Rock N Roll and Chuck Berry and Little Richard is. If somebody can provide these substantial receipts I will retract my comments and say Elvis advocated for Black musicians because doing these things is REAL ADVOCATING. NOT taking a photo with Jackie Wilson, NOT saying you admire Jackie Wilson. Putting your reputation and status on the line to acknowledge a inequality or a group of people that are disempowered and speaking to the ones that marginalize them, using your platform to make more awareness to a problem and actively trying to minimize the issue, thats advocating. That article you posted proves nothing.

[Edited 6/9/17 5:34am]

Chile, please.

Don't make it seem like just because Michael fucking Jackson wrote a song criticizing socio-economic
and policital injustices means he's chiefly concerned with selflessly advocating for the betterment of
all those marginalized and oppressed and in the same lineage as King and others. No; he and Prince
are performers who made their scrilla first then they began to articulate some disdain for the in-
equalities they endured as Black American recording artists.

And, if you had read the NY Times piece, you'd understand that Elvis Presley was not a racist and
deferred to the Black American recording artists he was indebted to when he was referred to as the
"King of Rock n Roll" by white media outlets.

It just dawned on me.... why am I going back in forth with you about anything related to MJ? You foolishly argued that he was not a super star with J5 and Off the Wall so this explains perfectly this illogical and uninformed post concerning MJ. Its quite evident you don't know what the hell you are talking about when you talk about him. TDRAU is not the ONLY political song he has written and he has done other activism and social action things for marginalize individuals and Black people BUT again I wouldn't expect for you to know this since you dont know what you are talking about when you talk about him.

The question is not whether Elvis is racist. The question is whether Elvis has advocated and stood up for Black musicians and entertainers that were discriminated and marginalized and he has NOT. He can be a fan of Jackie and James Brown all he wants but it means nothing if he did not use his platform to advocate for them since he copied everything they did.

mjscarousal said:

jjhunsecker said:

mjscarousal said:

Elvis never openly supported and advocated for the Black artists that inspired him. He has NEVER openly acknowledge any of the Black songwriters that wrote his music.

And before someone runs in here and post pictures of him and Jackie Wilson, being photographed is not the same as advocating and speaking out for Black artists.

Elvis gets flacked because most of his music, image, and performances were modeled off Black musicians and entertainers and he has never properly acknowledge and gave credit to these Black masterminds behind his work. NONE of the Black songwriters that wrote his music get paid for those classics. I have NEVER heard Elvis call Chuck Berry or Little Richard the true Kings of Rock N Roll and if he has please direct me to a quote or video. I have never watched a video where Elvis talks about the Black performers and entertainers that inspired him.

Yall are giving him WAY to much credit. He is the eptiome of manufactured star. He took some photos with Jackie and James but that doesn't mean he was vocal and advocated for their accomplishments and impact on Rock N Roll, thats complete B.S.

[Edited 6/9/17 2:58am]

You need to read more ... Elvis on Arthur Crudup : "I'd hear Arthur banging on his box, and if I ever get to the place he did, I'd be a real music man". I know in some circles it's the politically correct thing to bash Elvis, who even Chuck D acknowledged was a "great artist "

I respectfully disagree. If anything its politically incorrect to bash Elvis and this thread proves that.

Elvis is widely held as the King of Rock N Roll. Elvis is looked at higher than Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Fats Dominos, etc in the Rock N Roll world. He is respected as a Rock N Roll pioneer in music circles and by the media. This is the problem, he gets to much credit for things he didn't start and he wasn't as talented as the afromentioned. This is not about bashing him, this is about giving credit where its due and acknowledging other Black pioneers that are not acknowledged. You constantly expressing what other Black artists have said about Elvis does not change the fact that he is overly credited for innovating things he did not create and establish himself in Rock N Roll. Again, I still do not see how he has vigorously advocated for Black musicians and artists. Did Arthur Crudup feature on any of his songs? Did Elvis create a documentary discussing how important Arthur was to Rock N Roll? Did he advocate that Arthur be promoted more by the industry?

Elvis was not innovative. He took from underrated Black songwriters, musicians and performers that were not credited or paid for and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that. That is not bashing him. It is simply a fact that is apart of history and IMO, he could have used his platform more to put on other Black performers and musicians since he copied for a lot of them and he did not.

JUST like Prince, Stevie Wonder and MJ etc advocated and PUT on other unknown acts and acts that inspired them.... Elvis did not do that. Yall making him as some Great White Hope Savior for Black musicians, stop it please. He wasn't..

[Edited 6/9/17 13:57pm]

mjscarousal said:

Dasein said:

Chile, please.

Don't make it seem like just because Michael fucking Jackson wrote a song criticizing socio-economic
and policital injustices means he's chiefly concerned with selflessly advocating for the betterment of
all those marginalized and oppressed and in the same lineage as King and others. No; he and Prince
are performers who made their scrilla first then they began to articulate some disdain for the in-
equalities they endured as Black American recording artists.

And, if you had read the NY Times piece, you'd understand that Elvis Presley was not a racist and
deferred to the Black American recording artists he was indebted to when he was referred to as the
"King of Rock n Roll" by white media outlets.

It just dawned on me.... why am I going back in forth with you about anything related to MJ? You foolishly argued that he was not a super star with J5 and Off the Wall so this explains perfectly this illogical and uninformed post concerning MJ. Its quite evident you don't know what the hell you are talking about when you talk about him. TDRAU is not the ONLY political song he has written and he has done other activism and social action things for marginalize individuals and Black people BUT again I wouldn't expect for you to know this since you dont know what you are talking about when you talk about him.

The question is not whether Elvis is racist. The question is whether Elvis has advocated and stood up for Black musicians and entertainers that were discriminated and marginalized and he has NOT. He can be a fan of Jackie and James Brown all he wants but it means nothing if he did not use his platform to advocate for them since he copied everything they did.

It is not foolish to acknowledge that Michael Jackson was not as popular as he was before Thriller
and the advent of MTV. And I don't care if Jackson wrote one gazillion songs about socio-econo-
political injustices or had a gazillion non-profit organizations addressing the same as well. The fact
remains that he was initially concerned about making a living for himself and his family before he
was articulating those injustices; and that he and Prince looked out for themselves first before they
voiced their displeasure with injustice. And, there isn't anything you know about Michael Jackson
that I can't read on the internet in five seconds, so give me a break; you're not privy to anything
about him that everybody else who didn't know him personally is as well, so stop acting like your
knowledge of him is esoteric and/or profound.

When Presley acknowledged and deferred to those Black American artists who came before him,
that's good enough for me to think he was an okay dude. Not every recording artist has to advocate
for oppressed and marginalized recording artists in order to be considered a decent human being.
And finally, it's just really fucking dumb to criticize Presley for not using his platform to advocate for
minority recording artists in the face of him acknowledging they were his progenitors. I could see
if Presley said in response to being hailed as the King of Rock N Roll, "Um, yeah; I'm the shit. I
have no influences. I'm the originator. I'm not influenced at all by any Black American artist." So,
what you are essentially doing is purposefully and quite arbitrarily creating a standard that you know
cannot be met by Presley and then faulting him for it.

And, that's horseshit.

mjscarousal said:

jjhunsecker said:

mjscarousal said: You need to read more ... Elvis on Arthur Crudup : "I'd hear Arthur banging on his box, and if I ever get to the place he did, I'd be a real music man". I know in some circles it's the politically correct thing to bash Elvis, who even Chuck D acknowledged was a "great artist "

I respectfully disagree. If anything its politically incorrect to bash Elvis and this thread proves that.

Elvis is widely held as the King of Rock N Roll. Elvis is looked at higher than Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Fats Dominos, etc in the Rock N Roll world. He is respected as a Rock N Roll pioneer in music circles and by the media. This is the problem, he gets to much credit for things he didn't start and he wasn't as talented as the afromentioned. This is not about bashing him, this is about giving credit where its due and acknowledging other Black pioneers that are not acknowledged. You constantly expressing what other Black artists have said about Elvis does not change the fact that he is overly credited for innovating things he did not create and establish himself in Rock N Roll. Again, I still do not see how he has vigorously advocated for Black musicians and artists. Did Arthur Crudup feature on any of his songs? Did Elvis create a documentary discussing how important Arthur was to Rock N Roll? Did he advocate that Arthur be promoted more by the industry?

Elvis was not innovative. He took from underrated Black songwriters, musicians and performers that were not credited or paid for and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that. That is not bashing him. It is simply a fact that is apart of history and IMO, he could have used his platform more to put on other Black performers and musicians since he copied for a lot of them and he did not.

JUST like Prince, Stevie Wonder and MJ etc advocated and PUT on other unknown acts and acts that inspired them.... Elvis did not do that. Yall making him as some Great White Hope Savior for Black musicians, stop it please. He wasn't..

[Edited 6/9/17 13:57pm]

Nobody is making Elvis Presley the "Greate White Hope Savior for Black musicians" in this thread.

That's motherfucking ridiculous, Carousal.

The white media depicted and made Elvis Presley the King of Rock N Roll; Presley is on record as
deferring to his Black American influences when he was called the King of Rock N Roll by the white
media as evidenced in the NY Times article you absolutely did not read. So, please do not mistake
my posts as arguing for casting Presley as the King of anything when even Presley knew and publicly
said he was not.

Taken from the article I posted earlier:

"“Let’s face it,” he {Presley} said of his rhythm and blues influences, “nobody can sing that kind of
music like colored people. I can’t sing it like Fats Domino can. I know that.” When a reporter referred
to him {Presley} as the “king of rock ’n’ roll” at the press conference following his 1969 Las Vegas
opening, he rejected the title, as he always did, calling attention to the presence in the room
of his friend Fats Domino, “one of my influences from way back.” The larger point, of course,
was that no one should be called king; surely the music, the American musical tradition that Elvis so
strongly embraced, could stand on its own by now, after crossing all borders of race, class and even
nationality."

Re the OP, the trend of artists preferring to own and distribute their own work rather than sell it to a record label does not begin with Prince, and does not really apply to MJ who was under contract his entire career.

.

There are examples of artist-run labels going back to the 60s, Herb Alpert's A&M and Sinatra's Reprise, or the Who's management starting Track Records and discovering Hendrix. The artists were superstars and in Sinatra's case, not necessarily involved in running the operation (Alpert was), and their signees got kind of traditional deals. But Herb & Frank certainly weren't worried about record label interference in their own albums.

.

Then you have the rise of punk and hip-hop in the late 70s and early 80s. Most big labels won't take a chance on that stuff so the people have to start their own companies, or work with tiny, practically homemade labels. They have a hard time getting noticed but over time, some of those acts start to get big through underground support. EDM mostly happens on homemade labels. Andsome of them get big enough to turn down multi million $ offers from labels, because they don't need the money or the promotion.

.

Prince is kind of interesting as one of the first big stars to not work with a label but release stuff directly to fans. But he got famous the usual way, signing away his life to the company in exchange for seed money and promotion.

Dasein said:

mjscarousal said:

I respectfully disagree. If anything its politically incorrect to bash Elvis and this thread proves that.

Elvis is widely held as the King of Rock N Roll. Elvis is looked at higher than Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Fats Dominos, etc in the Rock N Roll world. He is respected as a Rock N Roll pioneer in music circles and by the media. This is the problem, he gets to much credit for things he didn't start and he wasn't as talented as the afromentioned. This is not about bashing him, this is about giving credit where its due and acknowledging other Black pioneers that are not acknowledged. You constantly expressing what other Black artists have said about Elvis does not change the fact that he is overly credited for innovating things he did not create and establish himself in Rock N Roll. Again, I still do not see how he has vigorously advocated for Black musicians and artists. Did Arthur Crudup feature on any of his songs? Did Elvis create a documentary discussing how important Arthur was to Rock N Roll? Did he advocate that Arthur be promoted more by the industry?

Elvis was not innovative. He took from underrated Black songwriters, musicians and performers that were not credited or paid for and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that. That is not bashing him. It is simply a fact that is apart of history and IMO, he could have used his platform more to put on other Black performers and musicians since he copied for a lot of them and he did not.

JUST like Prince, Stevie Wonder and MJ etc advocated and PUT on other unknown acts and acts that inspired them.... Elvis did not do that. Yall making him as some Great White Hope Savior for Black musicians, stop it please. He wasn't..

[Edited 6/9/17 13:57pm]

Nobody is making Elvis Presley the "Greate White Hope Savior for Black musicians" in this thread.

That's motherfucking ridiculous, Carousal.

The white media depicted and made Elvis Presley the King of Rock N Roll; Presley is on record as
deferring to his Black American influences when he was called the King of Rock N Roll by the white
media as evidenced in the NY Times article you absolutely did not read. So, please do not mistake
my posts as arguing for casting Presley as the King of anything when even Presley knew and publicly
said he was not.

Taken from the article I posted earlier:

"“Let’s face it,” he {Presley} said of his rhythm and blues influences, “nobody can sing that kind of
music like colored people. I can’t sing it like Fats Domino can. I know that.” When a reporter referred
to him {Presley} as the “king of rock ’n’ roll” at the press conference following his 1969 Las Vegas
opening, he rejected the title, as he always did, calling attention to the presence in the room
of his friend Fats Domino, “one of my influences from way back.” The larger point, of course,
was that no one should be called king; surely the music, the American musical tradition that Elvis so
strongly embraced, could stand on its own by now, after crossing all borders of race, class and even
nationality."

Yes, yall are.

Acknowledging influences is different from advocating and giving someone a platform.

Elvis did nothing to advocate for those Black artists that pioneered rock n roll and Im sorry there is no excuse for that considering he copied most of everything they did. During the 1950's, those Black musicians were discriminated against and could have used the backing and clout of Elvis to help them if he TRULY felt they were the real kings. So I haven't seen anything Elvis has done that truly shows he advocated for those artists.

If he truly felt that Fats Dominos was the true King of Rock N Roll why didn't he let Fats Dominos open for him? Why didn't he advocate that Fats Dominos perform on tv shows? Why didn't he advocate that Fats Dominos get played on White stations? He had the clout to do that and I don't buy that he did not want to be called the King of Rock N Roll because he often branded himself as that. Yall in here making it seem as though he did a lot to advocate for these Black pioneers and he did not. Also, where is the transcript to this so called press conference, I want to read it.

[Edited 6/9/17 19:08pm]

mjscarousal said:

jjhunsecker said:

mjscarousal said:

Yes, yall are.

Acknowledging influences is different from advocating and giving someone a platform.

Elvis did nothing to advocate for those Black artists that pioneered rock n roll and Im sorry there is no excuse for that considering he copied most of everything they did. During the 1950's, those Black musicians were discriminated against and could have used the backing and clout of Elvis to help them if he TRULY felt they were the real kings. So I haven't seen anything Elvis has done that truly shows he advocated for those artists.

If he truly felt that Fats Dominos was the true King of Rock N Roll why didn't he let Fats Dominos open for him? Why didn't he advocate that Fats Dominos perform on tv shows? Why didn't he advocate that Fats Dominos get played on White stations? He had the clout to do that and I don't buy that he did not want to be called the King of Rock N Roll because he often branded himself as that. Yall in here making it seem as though he did a lot to advocate for these Black pioneers and he did not. Also, where is the transcript to this so called press conference, I want to read it.

[Edited 6/9/17 19:08pm]

Elvis didn't have any opening acts, of any race, when he returned to touring in 1969. We could "should have, could have" all day, and I suspect nothing short of Elvis quitting show business and saying only Black acts should play that type of music will satisfy you.... (Speaking of opening acts- I saw Prince in NYC on the 1999 tour in 1983, when he took the Time off the bill for fear that they would upstage him in the media capital of the world)

So? Prince put on many other Black musicians and bands and gave them opportunities and some of them became stars due to him giving them a platform, Elvis did not do that.

We know that Elvis admired Black artists but yall in here making it seem like he gave them full credit and told the industry they were the pioneers and went all out to advocate for them when he did not.

mjscarousal said:

jjhunsecker said:

mjscarousal said: Elvis didn't have any opening acts, of any race, when he returned to touring in 1969. We could "should have, could have" all day, and I suspect nothing short of Elvis quitting show business and saying only Black acts should play that type of music will satisfy you.... (Speaking of opening acts- I saw Prince in NYC on the 1999 tour in 1983, when he took the Time off the bill for fear that they would upstage him in the media capital of the world)

We know that Elvis admired Black artists but yall in here making it seem like he gave them full credit and told the industry they were the pioneers and went all out to advocate for them when he did not.

But, there is an instance recorded of Presley giving Fats Domino credit as a pioneer. And, it is
not incumbent upon white recording artists who have a career built, in part, off of the backs of
Black American recording artists to advocate for them. Is it nice? Yes. Incumbent ethically?
Maybe; maybe not. But, practically? Fucks no. Presley did not need to stand on line with MLK
in Selma in order to not be criticized for not doing more than he could have as a white performer
who had some major indebtedness to Black American recording artists.

What you've done in this thread is to simply rewrite history and present Michael Jackson and Prince
as freedom fighters solely occupied with articulating socio-economic-political inequalities (borne out
of your fanaticism) while disparaging Elvis Presley (borne out of a limited understanding of who he
was as a person in history). I don't give a fuck about Elvis; but, don't try to sell me a gilded turd
and tell me its a gold nugget. And, I can't stand this forum's blind devotion to Michael Jackson and
Prince: it contributed to their deaths, if you think about it. If our society didn't idolize musicians,
they would have a better chance of living.

Both Michaeand Prince only "fight back" against the system when the system did not longer played by their rules, stop trying tomake them martyrs,

Thank you everybody and everyone for your posts and point of views. With that being said, I'm glad to have gained knowledge and insight from that time period. Didn't mean for the Elvis thing to be so heavy in discussion but I wanted to read some opinions and like I said earlier no matter how much evidence you bring up once the older generation have made a decision it's a wrap. Only the youth will be more open to hearing all sides as we are still growing and learning. But Elvis generation within the black community will never see him as black rights musical Icon. Same thing for black artists also, look at Michael Jordan great NBA star outside of that he's considered a coon. Elvis stardom started when racism tension was extremely still high.

Prince on using the word SLAVE: Although I understand what he was trying to say I believe SWEATSHOP industry should have been used but he's not a politically correct person or journalist neither am I but the music is industry like other industries are built on sweatshop mentality. ThePanther, now that I got a chance to look completely over your post, I missed that wendy's or low level executive comment. I won't read much into it but if you ever debate racism in USA against the black community please don't say that wendy's line as that will be taken as a very racist statement and depending on the person will land you in a verbal or physical fight because all they heard was "if Prince wasn't on a contract he would be a poor black fool at wendy's or a black person barely graduating from college and get a the lowest level job." But I get your point and will leave it there. Prince was not a slave neither was MJ.

As for MJ and Prince only fighting when they got their big paydays and was losing steam in the industry is somewhat true. What a lot of us not understanding is generation X and my generation was growing up to believe that the only way to make money was to get a big contract deal with a big time Record companines. What a lot of people don't know is before Prince and MJ went public or was losing steam they did help others in private throughout the late 80's and 90's. Jay-Z, Puff Daddy, Jennifer Lopez, Eddie Murphy, The Wayans family, MC Hammer, Master P, and more have all said that Prince, MJ, Quincy Jones, Oprah, George Lucas, and some others gave them guidance through the entertainment industry. That's why the 90's became the open black star millionaires decade. Prince used to hold parties sometimes to talk about how to sell music online as the internet in the 90's was blossoming and still growing today. Michael did his best to help Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Usher, Will Smith, and some others about the industry and how not to look to the record company to network your talent and not to sign contracts to the point you can't get paid off of your own hardwork. Something he learned from James Brown. Also before you go public and fight you need to have some kind name recognition and a history to show you have experience in the area you trying to tell the people about. Would you listen to Vanilla Ice trying to tell you about LA gangs? Would you listen to Jason Whitlock tell you about self health? Remove the fame and experience from Prince and MJ and the majority wouldn't listen to them at all. Society have taught us that if you're not rice and famous not to listen to you and if you tell the truth to attack first and maybe listen when the artist is dead.

Payola Comment: This is actually as old as the music record label industry. It's illegal but you know that didn't stop radio stations from receiving a lot of money to play records. Payola is the practice of bribing someone to use their influence or position to promote a particular product or interest, and thanks to the internet Payola is no longer relevant to have a hit record. I'm not going to pay you millions for what I can do myself online through social media (Facebook, Youtube, DailyMotion, SnapChat, Instagram to name a few). But back in the days the radio DJ's made a lot of money off this and so did James Brown who brought a lot of radio stations himself. James made a lot of money off this which leads to the reason his first band didn't understand why they wasn't being paid. Payola was very much the reason for artists careers outside of BET MTV VH1 music shows. Lou Rawls said "Janet Jackson outside me? I can sing better than that bitch". But Janet having the looks, MJ help, and Payola behind her career became a huge success.

My views on race: My view on the matter of everything is, like any business in the USA when it comes to the black community especially black men, we are looked at as the lowest piece of shit in parts of the USA. I have yet to see any artist get put in jail for speaking out for equality for his own race like Cassius Clay was. All they taught back then and showed back then was that the only thing black people was good for was picking cotton, taking orders from a white man, being pimps and hoes, drug dealers and other illegal activity, and mentally retarded humans. Then in the 80's we was seen as only entertainment puppets whether it was acting, sports, or interns. A lot of people say well go back to Africa if you feel that way, and due to rape and race mixing I can now in 2017 tell y'all the same. Not until White men and White women started having black babies did race start becoming more important to the lighter complexion community. So anybody that feels being black back then was so easy or easy still in USA are you willing to trade your white skin to that of a darker complexion? Are you willing to be screamed at " sing you dirty ni66er" and respond "yes sir master, i dance you master". I'm a black man in america, fucking animals got more rights than me. Hell animals got more rights than infants, and that's not junior highschool education talking there ThePanther. So please stop trying to tell me Prince and MJ didn't get racism done at them or any black artists back then from 1900's -1980's. Being rich and black doesn't remove you from being black and people being racist in America towards you. Oprah just experienced a racist woman telling her she doesn't have enough money to buy the bag she was looking at. I don't agree that the word SLAVE should have been used by Prince but I understood what he was trying to say. Every business have their sweatshop ways with the healthcare industry being highest. Now outside of the USA, black people have a pretty much fair playground. If it wasn't for me going outside of the USA to canada, south america, Paris, and Italy I wouldn't know how it feels to not be followed by cops or looked at as if I'm going to rob or shoot someone or like a piece of shit. So racism against blacks is really not a global thing, thank the heavenly father. If it wasn't for Jane Elliott I would think no matter how many explaination good blacks from MLK to others have explained and showed, white americans would never understand. If it wasn't for racism, sex, and drugs Hip-Hop wouldn't be so violent and degrading. If it wasn't people like the herd black puppet like Jason Whitlock then we can move forward and heal. It's sad that blacks are now seen as a fashion phase like the movie Get Out showed.

Now if you want to challendge my opinion and views, come with it. And please don't try telling me how to live as a black man in america if you're not a black male or a mother of a black male. Outside of that I don't mind hearing you all views on what I just posted.

[Edited 6/10/17 19:44pm]

[Edited 6/10/17 23:18pm]

^ Most here are not black and your right they should not be talking to black people about their own culture.

They stay trashing the Jacksons and Prince but they love to throw on capes for mediocre and wack artists. I don't take anything they say seriously.

mjscarousal said:

^ Most here are not black and your right they should not be talking to black people about their own culture.

They stay trashing the Jacksons and Prince but they love to throw on capes for mediocre and wack artists. I don't take anything they say seriously.

in 2017 as in contrast to 1987

as of today, I see just as many black people/music fans/social critics trash that family as anyone else does, and on some occassions they are at the forefront of the trashing......

Scorp said:

mjscarousal said:

^ Most here are not black and your right they should not be talking to black people about their own culture.

They stay trashing the Jacksons and Prince but they love to throw on capes for mediocre and wack artists. I don't take anything they say seriously.

in 2017 as in contrast to 1987

as of today, I see just as many black people/music fans/social critics trash that family as anyone else does, and on some occassions they are at the forefront of the trashing......

I am talking specifically about this site. They trash the Jacksons but then they whine and cry when you criticize these mediocre singers. There is obviously a double standard when it comes to the Jacksons and some of it is racially motivated.

ReddBlitz said:

Much respect too to Sam Cooke. He would lay the blueprint for black artists in fighting for full ownership of their music.

I've heard about that around the church community and a lot of people that's why he was murdered and also I have seen terrible photos of his dead body laying around like a piece of trash and not covered up. Then Otis was next, bobby womack accident that caused a head injury, Stevie Wonder head injury was all said to be done out of hate crimes. I'm not saying it's true because I haven't read or seen any evidence of it. But if you can elaborate on that I would love to read your views on that.

liljojo said:

I'm a black man in america, fucking animals got more rights than me. Hell animals got more rights than infants, and that's not junior highschool education talking there ThePanther. So please stop trying to tell me Prince and MJ didn't get racism done at them or any black artists back then from 1900's -1980's.

I didn't say any such thing.

If you're going to go off on a rant against another poster, you should at least try to read and understand what that person said.

liljojo said:

Thank you everybody and everyone for your posts and point of views. With that being said, I'm glad to have gained knowledge and insight from that time period. Didn't mean for the Elvis thing to be so heavy in discussion but I wanted to read some opinions and like I said earlier no matter how much evidence you bring up once the older generation have made a decision it's a wrap. Only the youth will be more open to hearing all sides as we are still growing and learning. But Elvis generation within the black community will never see him as black rights musical Icon. Same thing for black artists also, look at Michael Jordan great NBA star outside of that he's considered a coon. Elvis stardom started when racism tension was extremely still high.

Prince on using the word SLAVE: Although I understand what he was trying to say I believe SWEATSHOP industry should have been used but he's not a politically correct person or journalist neither am I but the music is industry like other industries are built on sweatshop mentality. ThePanther, now that I got a chance to look completely over your post, I missed that wendy's or low level executive comment. I won't read much into it but if you ever debate racism in USA against the black community please don't say that wendy's line as that will be taken as a very racist statement and depending on the person will land you in a verbal or physical fight because all they heard was "if Prince wasn't on a contract he would be a poor black fool at wendy's or a black person barely graduating from college and get a the lowest level job." But I get your point and will leave it there. Prince was not a slave neither was MJ.

As for MJ and Prince only fighting when they got their big paydays and was losing steam in the industry is somewhat true. What a lot of us not understanding is generation X and my generation was growing up to believe that the only way to make money was to get a big contract deal with a big time Record companines. What a lot of people don't know is before Prince and MJ went public or was losing steam they did help others in private throughout the late 80's and 90's. Jay-Z, Puff Daddy, Jennifer Lopez, Eddie Murphy, The Wayans family, MC Hammer, Master P, and more have all said that Prince, MJ, Quincy Jones, Oprah, George Lucas, and some others gave them guidance through the entertainment industry. That's why the 90's became the open black star millionaires decade. Prince used to hold parties sometimes to talk about how to sell music online as the internet in the 90's was blossoming and still growing today. Michael did his best to help Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Usher, Will Smith, and some others about the industry and how not to look to the record company to network your talent and not to sign contracts to the point you can't get paid off of your own hardwork. Something he learned from James Brown. Also before you go public and fight you need to have some kind name recognition and a history to show you have experience in the area you trying to tell the people about. Would you listen to Vanilla Ice trying to tell you about LA gangs? Would you listen to Jason Whitlock tell you about self health? Remove the fame and experience from Prince and MJ and the majority wouldn't listen to them at all. Society have taught us that if you're not rice and famous not to listen to you and if you tell the truth to attack first and maybe listen when the artist is dead.

Payola Comment: This is actually as old as the music record label industry. It's illegal but you know that didn't stop radio stations from receiving a lot of money to play records. Payola is the practice of bribing someone to use their influence or position to promote a particular product or interest, and thanks to the internet Payola is no longer relevant to have a hit record. I'm not going to pay you millions for what I can do myself online through social media (Facebook, Youtube, DailyMotion, SnapChat, Instagram to name a few). But back in the days the radio DJ's made a lot of money off this and so did James Brown who brought a lot of radio stations himself. James made a lot of money off this which leads to the reason his first band didn't understand why they wasn't being paid. Payola was very much the reason for artists careers outside of BET MTV VH1 music shows. Lou Rawls said "Janet Jackson outside me? I can sing better than that bitch". But Janet having the looks, MJ help, and Payola behind her career became a huge success.

My views on race: My view on the matter of everything is, like any business in the USA when it comes to the black community especially black men, we are looked at as the lowest piece of shit in parts of the USA. I have yet to see any artist get put in jail for speaking out for equality for his own race like Cassius Clay was. All they taught back then and showed back then was that the only thing black people was good for was picking cotton, taking orders from a white man, being pimps and hoes, drug dealers and other illegal activity, and mentally retarded humans. Then in the 80's we was seen as only entertainment puppets whether it was acting, sports, or interns. A lot of people say well go back to Africa if you feel that way, and due to rape and race mixing I can now in 2017 tell y'all the same. Not until White men and White women started having black babies did race start becoming more important to the lighter complexion community. So anybody that feels being black back then was so easy or easy still in USA are you willing to trade your white skin to that of a darker complexion? Are you willing to be screamed at " sing you dirty ni66er" and respond "yes sir master, i dance you master". I'm a black man in america, fucking animals got more rights than me. Hell animals got more rights than infants, and that's not junior highschool education talking there ThePanther. So please stop trying to tell me Prince and MJ didn't get racism done at them or any black artists back then from 1900's -1980's. Being rich and black doesn't remove you from being black and people being racist in America towards you. Oprah just experienced a racist woman telling her she doesn't have enough money to buy the bag she was looking at. I don't agree that the word SLAVE should have been used by Prince but I understood what he was trying to say. Every business have their sweatshop ways with the healthcare industry being highest. Now outside of the USA, black people have a pretty much fair playground. If it wasn't for me going outside of the USA to canada, south america, Paris, and Italy I wouldn't know how it feels to not be followed by cops or looked at as if I'm going to rob or shoot someone or like a piece of shit. So racism against blacks is really not a global thing, thank the heavenly father. If it wasn't for Jane Elliott I would think no matter how many explaination good blacks from MLK to others have explained and showed, white americans would never understand. If it wasn't for racism, sex, and drugs Hip-Hop wouldn't be so violent and degrading. If it wasn't people like the herd black puppet like Jason Whitlock then we can move forward and heal. It's sad that blacks are now seen as a fashion phase like the movie Get Out showed.

Now if you want to challendge my opinion and views, come with it. And please don't try telling me how to live as a black man in america if you're not a black male or a mother of a black male. Outside of that I don't mind hearing you all views on what I just posted.

[Edited 6/10/17 19:44pm]

[Edited 6/10/17 23:18pm]

This post is goofy, and nobody in this thread argued that Elvis Presley was a Black rights
musical icon. But, neither was Michael Jackson - that's historical revisionism at work by
a forum with many members who idolize him.

[Edited 6/12/17 4:14am]

214 said:

Both Michaeand Prince only "fight back" against the system when the system did not longer played by their rules, stop trying tomake them martyrs,

It seems like a lot people here don't know how the music industry works. People did not want to listen or support MJ or Prince when they were pointing out serious issues facing artists, now look at the industry now, people are lucky if the sell anything due downloading. Now it gets harder and harder make make money off of music. Any thing MJ or Prince got from their record company they got because the prove their worth and dare dream big. They did not settle for what ever the record company thought they should get or do. People should own their work because they created it and that is were the money is. Why do you think you have like 10 writers on one songs know of days?