Scorp said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Yeah, Bashir didn't act like that when his documentary became a major media sensation. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on. If Michael really had something to hide, he wouldn't have let vultures like Bashir near him. Did Michael act his age and protect himself against the allegations that followed his behavior? No, he did not. But, the fact that he didn't is very revealing in and of itself. When I saw Michael climb that tree at Neverland and watched Bashir comment on it and saw Michael's reaction--like "What's wrong with what I'm doing?" I thought, here is a boy who hasn't grown up, living in his own world. It may be different and laden with issues...but that doesn't make it wrong.

he wasn't climbing on trees during OTW or Thriller

that was all stage for shock value, most of his fans of today can't see this.....

why in the world would this man need to sit up in a tree for inspiration to be able to write songs when fans always talk about all the songs he wrote when he was younger during his recordings with Quincy Jones.........

he was not a boy, he was a grown man

how is different from someone going for a walk for inspiration. You dont know what mj did when he was younger at havvenhurst

heathilly said:

Scorp said:

he wasn't climbing on trees during OTW or Thriller

that was all stage for shock value, most of his fans of today can't see this.....

why in the world would this man need to sit up in a tree for inspiration to be able to write songs when fans always talk about all the songs he wrote when he was younger during his recordings with Quincy Jones.........

he was not a boy, he was a grown man

how is different from someone going for a walk for inspiration. You dont know what mj did when he was younger at havvenhurst

he wasn't climbing up no tree writing no songs

Scorp said:

heathilly said:

how is different from someone going for a walk for inspiration. You dont know what mj did when he was younger at havvenhurst

he wasn't climbing up no tree writing no songs

And you know this how? reciepts? Let me just say this mj was viewed to be fairly normal around otw thriller by the general public. People didnt know of his eccentricities of all the animals and children obsession with disney etc. Theres an interview of mj during the thriller period pretending to be peter pan and fly with lotoya that wasnt aired. He obviously did things from the norm all the time and was very artsy when it came to songwriting with his songs coming to him as he stated.

heathilly said:

Scorp said:

he wasn't climbing up no tree writing no songs

And you know this how? reciepts? Let me just say this mj was viewed to be fairly normal around otw thriller by the general public. People didnt know of his eccentricities of all the animals and children obsession with disney etc. Theres an interview of mj during the thriller period pretending to be peter pan and fly with lotoya that wasnt aired. He obviously did things from the norm all the time and was very artsy when it came to songwriting with his songs coming to him as he stated.

you believe in that shopping spree he went on during that documentary too right?

Scorp said:

heathilly said:

Scorp said:

you believe in that shopping spree he went on during that documentary too right?

I believe that was edited to show mj in the worst light. And mj liked to spend money on stuff. Clearly he was just being him because when bashir said you want to buried in a sarcophagus he looked at him like hell no.

so all those antiques in that store that were on display he bought right?

Scorp said:

heathilly said:

Scorp said: I believe that was edited to show mj in the worst light. And mj liked to spend money on stuff. Clearly he was just being him because when bashir said you want to buried in a sarcophagus he looked at him like hell no.

so all those antiques in that store that were on display he bought right?

Yes and no those item were either reposed from his home or never left the shop. He didnt have the money to pay for it.

Persona based or not (and good point about the unauthorized interview); the fact people can run around online being quirky like that and they're considered so cutting edge, and when he did that for 2 seconds he was called every name in the book is so hypocritical. That's my two cents.

[Edited 11/5/16 23:12pm]

heathilly said:

Scorp said:

so all those antiques in that store that were on display he bought right?

Yes and no those item were either reposed from his home or never left the shop. He didnt have the money to pay for it.

it was all staged up........

it wasn't no repossession, it was all stage......

me personally, I chuckled because I knew Michael was chuckling. He was playing the role

he staged that to still give the impression to his fans and to himself that he was still king of the throne

Bashir alluded to this in his own interview after the documentary aired.

Bashir was not the antagonist, the false image was which is why this documentary never should have taken place

Scorp said:

PatrickS77 said:

Yes. That was the beginning of the end.

the beginning of the end was waaaaaaaaayyy before that

No, it was not. He had overcome everything that came before. HIStory was a hit. The HIStory tour was a hit. Even Invincible was reasonably successful, considering the circumstances. But Bashir started the last downward spiral.

Scorp said:

heathilly said:

Yes and no those item were either reposed from his home or never left the shop. He didnt have the money to pay for it.

it was all staged up........

it wasn't no repossession, it was all stage......

me personally, I chuckled because I knew Michael was chuckling. He was playing the role

he staged that to still give the impression to his fans and to himself that he was still king of the throne

Bashir alluded to this in his own interview after the documentary aired.

Bashir was not the antagonist, the false image was which is why this documentary never should have taken place

why would he stage something to put in even a worst light. It makes no sense. At this point in time michael was tired of playing the media like he did in bad era because it turned against him

heathilly said:

Scorp said:

it was all staged up........

it wasn't no repossession, it was all stage......

me personally, I chuckled because I knew Michael was chuckling. He was playing the role

he staged that to still give the impression to his fans and to himself that he was still king of the throne

Bashir alluded to this in his own interview after the documentary aired.

Bashir was not the antagonist, the false image was which is why this documentary never should have taken place

why would he stage something to put in even a worst light. It makes no sense. At this point in time michael was tired of playing the media like he did in bad era because it turned against him

that's my point, the conflict w/the media was not initiated by the media, he started it when he began projecting the false image that would come to hinder his career after Thriller, but by the time he tried to turn the tide, he found himself having to carry out the false image the remainder of his career to maintain the remaining the support he had.

and as Bashir said about Michael during an interview of his own in regards to the documentary

“It’s very difficult for him, he has been at the very heights of the musical business, and it’s hard for an individual to be that high and then to come down the mountain, and I’m quite worried how the next few years will play out for Michael Jackson, because I think he finds the whole idea of a declining career impossible to cope with.”

and Bashir's analysis of MJ's career by that point was right on the money

and this accurate assessment is what led Michael to stage scenes such as the "buying spree" at that antique store....to give the impression he was still the king of the throne to his fans and the public at large

purplethunder3121 said:

heathilly said:

purplethunder3121 said: Oh yes then when they had his funeral there's bashir on tv saying he saw nothing wrong or innapproate. The song Stevie played they won't go was truly apt for him.

Yeah, Bashir didn't act like that when his documentary became a major media sensation. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on. If Michael really had something to hide, he wouldn't have let vultures like Bashir near him. Did Michael act his age and protect himself against the allegations that followed his behavior? No, he did not. But, the fact that he didn't is very revealing in and of itself. When I saw Michael climb that tree at Neverland and watched Bashir comment on it and saw Michael's reaction--like "What's wrong with what I'm doing?" I thought, here is a boy who hasn't grown up, living in his own world. It may be different and laden with issues...but that doesn't make it wrong.

Amen. I agreed wholeheartedly.

Scorp said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Yeah, Bashir didn't act like that when his documentary became a major media sensation. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on. If Michael really had something to hide, he wouldn't have let vultures like Bashir near him. Did Michael act his age and protect himself against the allegations that followed his behavior? No, he did not. But, the fact that he didn't is very revealing in and of itself. When I saw Michael climb that tree at Neverland and watched Bashir comment on it and saw Michael's reaction--like "What's wrong with what I'm doing?" I thought, here is a boy who hasn't grown up, living in his own world. It may be different and laden with issues...but that doesn't make it wrong.

he wasn't climbing on trees during OTW or Thriller

that was all stage for shock value, most of his fans of today can't see this.....

why in the world would this man need to sit up in a tree for inspiration to be able to write songs when fans always talk about all the songs he wrote when he was younger during his recordings with Quincy Jones.........

he was not a boy, he was a grown man

and what's wrong with that?

Scorp said:

heathilly said:

why would he stage something to put in even a worst light. It makes no sense. At this point in time michael was tired of playing the media like he did in bad era because it turned against him

that's my point, the conflict w/the media was not initiated by the media, he started it when he began projecting the false image that would come to hinder his career after Thriller, but by the time he tried to turn the tide, he found himself having to carry out the false image the remainder of his career to maintain the remaining the support he had.

and as Bashir said about Michael during an interview of his own in regards to the documentary

“It’s very difficult for him, he has been at the very heights of the musical business, and it’s hard for an individual to be that high and then to come down the mountain, and I’m quite worried how the next few years will play out for Michael Jackson, because I think he finds the whole idea of a declining career impossible to cope with.”

and Bashir's analysis of MJ's career by that point was right on the money

and this accurate assessment is what led Michael to stage scenes such as the "buying spree" at that antique store....to give the impression he was still the king of the throne to his fans and the public at large

If you believe that, thats dumb I dont know what else to say.

heathilly said:

Scorp said:

that's my point, the conflict w/the media was not initiated by the media, he started it when he began projecting the false image that would come to hinder his career after Thriller, but by the time he tried to turn the tide, he found himself having to carry out the false image the remainder of his career to maintain the remaining the support he had.

and as Bashir said about Michael during an interview of his own in regards to the documentary

“It’s very difficult for him, he has been at the very heights of the musical business, and it’s hard for an individual to be that high and then to come down the mountain, and I’m quite worried how the next few years will play out for Michael Jackson, because I think he finds the whole idea of a declining career impossible to cope with.”

and Bashir's analysis of MJ's career by that point was right on the money

and this accurate assessment is what led Michael to stage scenes such as the "buying spree" at that antique store....to give the impression he was still the king of the throne to his fans and the public at large

If you believe that, thats dumb I dont know what else to say.

Bashir didn't approache MJ to do a documentary, it was the other way around, just as he did with Oprah and Diane Sawyer with each attempt geared towards trying to improve his standing with the public and to bolster his career.....or to boost record sales

he never had to do that during the years of OTW or Thriller

and if his career hadn't went the trajectory it did after Thriller, he never would have did either of those interviews or that documentary, there wouldn't be a need to

[Edited 11/6/16 10:29am]

purplethunder3121 said:

Morningstarlet said:

purplethunder3121 said:

I still find it tragic that the focus is not on the music that he made but still on his perceived "strangeness." And on the allegations against him although he was aquitted in court. In this country, once you are accused, you are always condemned in the eyes of the public, no matter if you are acquitted. Thank God, Prince never had to go through such horrendous BS. No wonder he was so reclusive, especially after seeing the shit Michael went through...

The difference is Prince didn't have sleep overs with little boys in his bed. Even if Michael was totally innocent of any wrong doing he put himself in that situation.

This is true. He should have known better.

Morningstarlet said:

purplethunder3121 said:

I still find it tragic that the focus is not on the music that he made but still on his perceived "strangeness." And on the allegations against him although he was aquitted in court. In this country, once you are accused, you are always condemned in the eyes of the public, no matter if you are acquitted. Thank God, Prince never had to go through such horrendous BS. No wonder he was so reclusive, especially after seeing the shit Michael went through...

The difference is Prince didn't have sleep overs with little boys in his bed. Even if Michael was totally innocent of any wrong doing he put himself in that situation.

exaaaactly,

fans wanna crap on Bashir but Bashir wasn't the problem......

and in support of Michael, Bashir did an interview with a news correspondent after the documentary and said himself that he never saw MJ conduct any inappropriate actions towards children and talked about how the false image had hindered Michael's career and his life

and I'll find that clip and post it as soon as I do

here's the clip here

[Edited 11/6/16 10:45am]

Scorp said:

heathilly said:

If you believe that, thats dumb I dont know what else to say.

Bashir didn't approache MJ to do a documentary, it was the other way around, just as he did with Oprah and Diane Sawyer with each attempt geared towards trying to improve his standing with the public and to bolster his career.....or to boost record sales

he never had to do that during the years of OTW or Thriller

and if his career hadn't went the trajectory it did after Thriller, he never would have did either of those interviews or that documentary, there wouldn't be a need to

[Edited 11/6/16 10:29am]

But your ignoring the reason why he did that documentry in the first place it was to be seen as a normal person. Not an act of normalcy or some hyper wierd thing he did it because he wanted to come clean and just be himself and be seen as that in the genreal public. He had complete trust in bashir because he did a great interview with princess diana. And if you watch the behind the scenes you hear bashir talking with mj unguarded saying yea thats not wierd your just have a unique different life but on the actual documentry all that was cut out and edited to make him look wierder. Mj at that time like I said was done playing the media and he was done since the 93 allegations. You not taking his humanity into account in the fact that people can only take so much and people stop playing with fire when they get burned.

heathilly said:

Scorp said:

Bashir didn't approache MJ to do a documentary, it was the other way around, just as he did with Oprah and Diane Sawyer with each attempt geared towards trying to improve his standing with the public and to bolster his career.....or to boost record sales

he never had to do that during the years of OTW or Thriller

and if his career hadn't went the trajectory it did after Thriller, he never would have did either of those interviews or that documentary, there wouldn't be a need to

[Edited 11/6/16 10:29am]

But your ignoring the reason why he did that documentry in the first place it was to be seen as a normal person. Not an act of normalcy or some hyper wierd thing he did it because he wanted to come clean and just be himself and be seen as that in the genreal public. He had complete trust in bashir because he did a great interview with princess diana. And if you watch the behind the scenes you hear bashir talking with mj unguarded saying yea thats not wierd your just have a unique different life but on the actual documentry all that was cut out and edited to make him look wierder. Mj at that time like I said was done playing the media and he was done since the 93 allegations. You not taking his humanity into account in the fact that people can only take so much and people stop playing with fire when they get burned.

but if he had never started out manipulated the media, all this would not have happened. and if it was one person who didn't need to do it was Michael Jackson, he didn't have to resort to tactics not one iota, when he projected the false image from the late 80s on, that's when the problems started, and that's when he found himself always in confrontation w/the media.

even BAshir said in the clip I just showed that MJ did the documentary to try and curtail all the criticism, the problem is in trying to do it, he upheld the false image even more, and why the documentary played out the way it did. The issue is that MJ mentions trueness in how he had been criticized the way he did over the past 16-17 years at that point, the problem is, since he decided to do this documentary, he chose not to be forthright about aspects and choices that he made that hindered his career and his life that brought forth the very criticism he was seeking to quelch.........it could have been any journalist conducting this documentary, anyone, and it would have been the same result

His humanity was already toast the moment he tried to convince himself the false image would make him more successful than he was as a result of his talent

Morningstarlet said:

purplethunder3121 said:

I still find it tragic that the focus is not on the music that he made but still on his perceived "strangeness." And on the allegations against him although he was aquitted in court. In this country, once you are accused, you are always condemned in the eyes of the public, no matter if you are acquitted. Thank God, Prince never had to go through such horrendous BS. No wonder he was so reclusive, especially after seeing the shit Michael went through...

The difference is Prince didn't have sleep overs with little boys in his bed. Even if Michael was totally innocent of any wrong doing he put himself in that situation.

Prince didnt play with the media but if he did he couldve ended up the same as mj. All it wouldve took is one of the many underage girls he just "slept" with in the bed and "didnt" have sex. The public already viewed him as a wierdo if someone made that accusation he wouldve been roasted. By the same dumb logic from the public that covicted mj in the court of public opinion "oh he's wierd he must be guilty"

Scorp said:

heathilly said:

But your ignoring the reason why he did that documentry in the first place it was to be seen as a normal person. Not an act of normalcy or some hyper wierd thing he did it because he wanted to come clean and just be himself and be seen as that in the genreal public. He had complete trust in bashir because he did a great interview with princess diana. And if you watch the behind the scenes you hear bashir talking with mj unguarded saying yea thats not wierd your just have a unique different life but on the actual documentry all that was cut out and edited to make him look wierder. Mj at that time like I said was done playing the media and he was done since the 93 allegations. You not taking his humanity into account in the fact that people can only take so much and people stop playing with fire when they get burned.

but if he had never started out manipulated the media, all this would not have happened. and if it was one person who didn't need to do it was Michael Jackson, he didn't have to resort to tactics not one iota, when he projected the false image from the late 80s on, that's when the problems started, and that's when he found himself always in confrontation w/the media.

even BAshir said in the clip I just showed that MJ did the documentary to try and curtail all the criticism, the problem is in trying to do it, he upheld the false image even more, and why the documentary played out the way it did. The issue is that MJ mentions trueness in how he had been criticized the way he did over the past 16-17 years at that point, the problem is, since he decided to do this documentary, he chose not to be forthright about aspects and choices that he made that hindered his career and his life that brought forth the very criticism he was seeking to quelch.........it could have been any journalist conducting this documentary, anyone, and it would have been the same result

His humanity was already toast the moment he tried to convince himself the false image would make him more successful than he was as a result of his talent

Yes he didnt need it but he wanted his life to to be like barnums and baileys the greatest show on earth and he got his wish.

heathilly said:

[img:$uid]http://68.media.tumblr.com/208c3d9c360543dd49bbb662c714b034/tumblr_og8xzm3oS91s0ej0yo1_500.jpg[/img:$uid]

[Edited 11/6/16 16:44pm]

[img:$uid]http://68.media.tumblr.com/87c22edcca4d3045a4fa8d45de3e6cae/tumblr_og8y4uEbbZ1s0ej0yo1_1280.jpg[/img:$uid]

My two cents: Michael was seen as "weird" during Thriller and even as early back as Off The Wall, seen as a "man-child", living in a fantasy world or bubble with people wondering about his voice, talks about his masculinity, sexual orientation and so forth but it wasn't becoming THE focus until 1984 or so and he grew the mystique around him AND started planting stories to the press. Things got dark when the allegations came and after that, it got MUCH worse.

The fallout from "Living with Michael Jackson" was on the fault of both Michael and Bashir. Michael was obviously on SOMETHING throughout that special and nobody stepped in to shut the whole thing down as well as thinking certain scenes would be good for show, and Bashir had his own agenda and used what was happening to the fullest extent, especially with the editing. The whole situation was a mess and shouldn't have happened.

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/featured/2016/11/05/one-time-michael-jackson-came-bangkok-20-years-ago/

[Edited 11/6/16 17:15pm]

Fuckinghell. I can't believe people are still debating that shit. The man is DEAD.

And nothing against him was ever proven.

Read the court documents and the FBI files. That's where the real story is. For fuck's sake, give it up already.