Cinny said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Mariahs songwriting is baby shit, basic boo boo.

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What's with the bias against Mariah? You may dislike her, but there is NO ONE in pop music in the last 25 years that has the songwriting skills that this woman has.

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You'd be extremely hard-pressed to find anyone in pop music that could EVER write songs as abstract, deep, inspirational and masterful as "Outside", "Petals", "Looking In", "I Am Free", "Whenever You Call", "There's Got to Be A Way", "Vision Of Love", "Vanishing", "My Saving Grace", "Can't Take That Away", "Butterfly", "One Sweet Day", "Make It Happen", "If It's Over", "Anytime You Need A Friend", "Never Forget You", "Do You Think Of Me", Everything Fades Away", "Slipping Away", "Always Be My Baby", "Underneath the Stars", "Through The Rain", "Hero", "All I Want For Christmas Is You" (the only modern Christmas classic), "I Wish You Well" and several tons of others.

.

What has the woman done to you? You may not like her, but her songwriting is anything but "baby shit" or "basic", boo boo

[Edited 5/12/15 20:21pm]

MusicAddict95 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Mariahs songwriting is baby shit, basic boo boo.

.

What's with the bias against Mariah? You may dislike her, but there is NO ONE in pop music in the last 25 years that has the songwriting skills that this woman has.

.

You'd be extremely hard-pressed to find anyone in pop music that could EVER write songs as abstract, deep, inspirational and masterful as "Outside", "Petals", "Looking In", "I Am Free", "Whenever You Call", "There's Got to Be A Way", "Vision Of Love", "Vanishing", "My Saving Grace", "Can't Take That Away", "Butterfly", "One Sweet Day", "Make It Happen", "If It's Over", "Anytime You Need A Friend", "Never Forget You", "Do You Think Of Me", Everything Fades Away", "Slipping Away", "Always Be My Baby", "Underneath the Stars", "Through The Rain", "Hero", "All I Want For Christmas Is You" (the only modern Christmas classic), "I Wish You Well" and several tons of others.

.

What has the woman done to you? You may not like her, but her songwriting is anything but "baby shit" or "basic", boo boo

[Edited 5/12/15 20:21pm]

I worked for her before and she's a horrible human being. And a teenager could have written those songs. In the last 25 years? in pop? who have been on the pop charts? i could write a whole essay of whos done it better. Those songs are just cheesy bullshit to me and abstract? deep? you gonna tell me that cornball shit butterfly is deep? you must be gay and a lamb

Don't forget Bjork I love your force of nature out of leftfield vocals.

Gunsnhalen said:

MusicAddict95 said:

.

What's with the bias against Mariah? You may dislike her, but there is NO ONE in pop music in the last 25 years that has the songwriting skills that this woman has.

.

You'd be extremely hard-pressed to find anyone in pop music that could EVER write songs as abstract, deep, inspirational and masterful as "Outside", "Petals", "Looking In", "I Am Free", "Whenever You Call", "There's Got to Be A Way", "Vision Of Love", "Vanishing", "My Saving Grace", "Can't Take That Away", "Butterfly", "One Sweet Day", "Make It Happen", "If It's Over", "Anytime You Need A Friend", "Never Forget You", "Do You Think Of Me", Everything Fades Away", "Slipping Away", "Always Be My Baby", "Underneath the Stars", "Through The Rain", "Hero", "All I Want For Christmas Is You" (the only modern Christmas classic), "I Wish You Well" and several tons of others.

.

What has the woman done to you? You may not like her, but her songwriting is anything but "baby shit" or "basic", boo boo

[Edited 5/12/15 20:21pm]

I worked for her before and she's a horrible human being. And a teenager could have written those songs. In the last 25 years? in pop? who have been on the pop charts? i could write a whole essay of whos done it better. Those songs are just cheesy bullshit to me and abstract? deep? you gonna tell me that cornball shit butterfly is deep? you must be gay and a lamb

.

LOL This coming from a guy who's a fan of Kanye West, the epitome of mediocrity, and shitty samey rock musicians.

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First of all, I don't believe you worked for her. You're just making up bullsh*t now and I can see right through it. Unless you pull up concrete evidence and proof that you've worked with her, then I'm just going to assume you're talking out of your ass. And I most certainly know that she's by no means a horrible person. Sorry, you won't fool me with that nonsense. Did you really think you would get by with that?

.

Now that that is out of the way, tell me what teenager has the vocabulary of writing skills that this woman has. Check out this link and tell me who uses that kind of vocabulary in songwriting?

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http://gawker.com/5930988/acquiescent-nothingness-incessantly-a-glossary-of-mariah-careys-10-cent-words

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You said you could write a whole essay on who's done better, I'll wait. And give me examples of the skills that they show, which I have done for Mariah and the article I linked.

.

.

You say those songs are cheesy bullshit to you, well I actually think the same about your barren musical "tastes". It seems you are a fan of deplorable modern "rap" (i.e. Kanye West), which talks about "bitches", "hoes", "weed", and "money" and other stuff of no substance. You also seem to be a fan of tired, old, and out-dated rock and sub-genres of the like which rehsash the same boring, depressed, "white" topics that they have been for decades (i.e. life is shitty and so let me just bang on instruments while I scream and wail indiscriminately or amateurly play drums and a guitar accompanied by nasal, horrendous singing about my boring experiences growing up as a rebel, or my shitty, fucked up experiences and outlook on life, etc.).

.

Many of the musicians that you listed in the OP could have been written by any white guy in a garage band, and any thug who's been through school. You've got quite the nerve to be talking.

.

If I must be gay and a lamb, then you must be an ignorant elitist white, arrogant prick who's head is so far up his ass, he can't respect anything else but his own shit.

.

Just pathetic. Before you talk shit, make sure you don't come from a place of ignorance when you do.

.

P.S. Many of those songs that Mariah wrote were actually written as a teenager when she was in high school and that, in my opinion, makes it all the more impressive.

[Edited 5/13/15 9:38am]

MusicAddict95 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I worked for her before and she's a horrible human being. And a teenager could have written those songs. In the last 25 years? in pop? who have been on the pop charts? i could write a whole essay of whos done it better. Those songs are just cheesy bullshit to me and abstract? deep? you gonna tell me that cornball shit butterfly is deep? you must be gay and a lamb

.

LOL This coming from a guy who's a fan of Kanye West, the epitome of mediocrity, and shitty samey rock musicians.

.

First of all, I don't believe you worked for her. You're just making up bullsh*t now and I can see right through it. Unless you pull up concrete evidence and proof that you've worked with her, then I'm just going to assume you're talking out of your ass. And I most certainly know that she's by no means a horrible person. Sorry, you won't fool me with that nonsense. Did you really think you would get by with that?

.

Now that that is out of the way, tell me what teenager has the vocabulary of writing skills that this woman has. Check out this link and tell me who uses that kind of vocabulary in songwriting?

.

http://gawker.com/5930988/acquiescent-nothingness-incessantly-a-glossary-of-mariah-careys-10-cent-words

.

You said you could write a whole essay on who's done better, I'll wait. And give me examples of the skills that they show, which I have done for Mariah and the article I linked.

.

.

You say those songs are cheesy bullshit to you, well I actually think the same about your barren musical "tastes". It seems you are a fan of deplorable modern "rap" (i.e. Kanye West), which talks about "bitches", "hoes", "weed", and "money" and other stuff of no substance. You also seem to be a fan of tired, old, and out-dated rock and sub-genres of the like which rehsash the same boring, depressed, "white" topics that they have been for decades (i.e. life is shitty and so let me just bang on instruments while I scream and wail indiscriminately or amateurly play drums and a guitar accompanied by nasal, horrendous singing about my boring experiences growing up as a rebel, or my shitty, fucked up experiences and outlook on life, etc.).

.

Many of the musicians that you listed in the OP could have been written by any white guy in a garage band, and any thug who's been through school. You've got quite the nerve to be talking.

.

If I must be gay and a lamb, then you must be an ignorant elitist white, arrogant prick who's head is so far up his ass, he can't respect anything else but his own shit.

.

Just pathetic. Before you talk shit, make sure you don't come from a place of ignorance when you do.

.

P.S. Many of those songs that Mariah wrote were actually written as a teenager when she was in high school and that, in my opinion, makes it all the more impressive.

[Edited 5/13/15 9:38am]

K

Just as I suspected; all bark and no bite.

MusicAddict95 said:

MusicAddict95 said:

Just as I suspected; all bark and no bite.

I'm just enjoying life i don't take these forums that seriously. If you worship Mariah and her silly pop songs good for you i'm gonna go outside and work for a living now.

Gunsnhalen said:

MusicAddict95 said:

Just as I suspected; all bark and no bite.

I'm just enjoying life i don't take these forums that seriously. If you worship Mariah and her silly pop songs good for you i'm gonna go outside and work for a living now.

.

Sweetheart, listen up good, okay, I don't worship anyone here on earth; let's get that squared away, right away. I don't worship human beings. You may, but I don't.

.

Now, if YOU worship Kanye and Smashing Pumpkins and their shitty, dull, jacked up, whack material that reeks of mediocrity, then that's fine for you. Just learn to respect others' and don't talk bullsh*t if you can't back it up. It makes you look stupid and ignorant (which I find to be the case with most of your posts on the org, anyway).

.

Mariah's songwriting is anything but silly, and just because you "say so", doesn't make it so.

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Quit stating your views as superior and as facts.

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'Tis all.

[Edited 5/13/15 23:35pm]

MusicAddict95 said:

BobGeorge909 said:

MusicAddict95 said:

.

Sweetheart, listen up good, okay, I don't worship anyone here on earth; let's get that squared away, right away. I don't worship human beings. You may, but I don't.

.

Now, if YOU worship Kanye and Smashing Pumpkins and their shitty, dull, jacked up, whack material that reeks of mediocrity, then that's fine for you. Just learn to respect others' and don't talk bullsh*t if you can't back it up. It makes you look stupid and ignorant (which I find to be the case with most of your posts on the org, anyway).

.

Mariah's songwriting is anything but silly, and just because you "say so", doesn't make it so.

.

Quit stating your views as superior and as facts.

.

'Tis all.

[Edited 5/13/15 23:35pm]

But it is silly.

It is not silly. What don't you get about that? It's all just your meaningless opinion, which I couldn't care less about. Nobody asked you, anyway. I'm pretty sure whatever it is that you listen to would be mind-numbing, silly, and absent-minded to me. Quit stating your opinions as facts. Just because you "say so", doesn't make it so. I've linked an article already that she is above average and quite superior in her songwriting. Don't care if you read it and believe it or not. Your problem, not mine

.

Now, please get lost.

I JUST discovered this song because they play it at work often. He's the epitome of sh!tty singers/great writers. I love this one.

>

purplethunder3121 said:

[img:$uid]http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/designs/1001519963,width=190,height=190.png/my-opinion-is-fact-png_design.png[/img:$uid]

MusicAddict95 said:

MusicAddict95 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I worked for her before and she's a horrible human being. And a teenager could have written those songs. In the last 25 years? in pop? who have been on the pop charts? i could write a whole essay of whos done it better. Those songs are just cheesy bullshit to me and abstract? deep? you gonna tell me that cornball shit butterfly is deep? you must be gay and a lamb

.

LOL This coming from a guy who's a fan of Kanye West, the epitome of mediocrity, and shitty samey rock musicians.

.

First of all, I don't believe you worked for her. You're just making up bullsh*t now and I can see right through it. Unless you pull up concrete evidence and proof that you've worked with her, then I'm just going to assume you're talking out of your ass. And I most certainly know that she's by no means a horrible person. Sorry, you won't fool me with that nonsense. Did you really think you would get by with that?

.

Now that that is out of the way, tell me what teenager has the vocabulary of writing skills that this woman has. Check out this link and tell me who uses that kind of vocabulary in songwriting?

.

http://gawker.com/5930988/acquiescent-nothingness-incessantly-a-glossary-of-mariah-careys-10-cent-words

.

You said you could write a whole essay on who's done better, I'll wait. And give me examples of the skills that they show, which I have done for Mariah and the article I linked.

.

.

You say those songs are cheesy bullshit to you, well I actually think the same about your barren musical "tastes". It seems you are a fan of deplorable modern "rap" (i.e. Kanye West), which talks about "bitches", "hoes", "weed", and "money" and other stuff of no substance. You also seem to be a fan of tired, old, and out-dated rock and sub-genres of the like which rehsash the same boring, depressed, "white" topics that they have been for decades (i.e. life is shitty and so let me just bang on instruments while I scream and wail indiscriminately or amateurly play drums and a guitar accompanied by nasal, horrendous singing about my boring experiences growing up as a rebel, or my shitty, fucked up experiences and outlook on life, etc.).

.

Many of the musicians that you listed in the OP could have been written by any white guy in a garage band, and any thug who's been through school. You've got quite the nerve to be talking.

.

If I must be gay and a lamb, then you must be an ignorant elitist white, arrogant prick who's head is so far up his ass, he can't respect anything else but his own shit.

.

Just pathetic. Before you talk shit, make sure you don't come from a place of ignorance when you do.

.

P.S. Many of those songs that Mariah wrote were actually written as a teenager when she was in high school and that, in my opinion, makes it all the more impressive.

[Edited 5/13/15 9:38am]

I don't have much of an opinion about Mariah as a songwriter (and as far as what she does as a singer beyond her impressive natural voice, I think her style has been detrimental to many of the women who've followed her)--so you can choose to disregard this as you wish. But I do have one question about the article you've cited, which you keep referring to as making a case for her greatness:

.

DID YOU READ IT?

.

Besides an opening paragraph which just says that she's barely present on a single released under her name, and a list of words with examples of their use in her lyrics, here's the full text.

.

Regardless of her virtual absence, "Triumphant" is classic Mimi in that its name is the sort of gratuitous, multi-syllabic vocab word that she has relied upon throughout her career. She's known for her ridiculous album titles that either conjure Lisa Frank with compound nouns (Music Box, Daydream, Butterfly, Rainbow, Charmbracelet) or read like inside jokes babbled by Precious Moments figurines (The Emancipation of Mimi, Memoirs of an Imperfect Angel). But that's hardly the extent of her strange relationship with English. Her lyrics are littered with, as she might say, peculiar words that suggest she is a vocabulary booster enthusiast. She loves her some adverbs. The result is a body of words that are rarely, if ever, heard in pop music. They are below.

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How is that complimentary? They're making fun of her, if anything. This is a list describing her "gratuitous" use of "10-cent words" (to use the title's description). In other words, at best she's using these words unnecessarily--at worst, she's using them wrong. Most of the time, it's nothing much either way--just a word, maybe a bit more attention grabbing than might be best for the line--but it's exactly the sort of thing an intelligent teenager who is trying too hard would engage in, so it's not at all surprising that she might have done some of it as a teenager. Which isn't a dig, by the way. Pushing the language in slightly wrong directions can result in something surprisingly good, occasionally. I don't know how often it does for Mariah, however, since I don't know most of the songs cited. I can't judge beyond the hits I know, and that's only three or four from even the list you provided, much less from the ones on their list.

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No matter how you look at it, this article doesn't make your case that Carey's songwriting is incredible. It doesn't even try to. I'm sure you could find one that tries to make your case for you, but this one certainly doesn't.

EddieC said:

I never really thought of Mariah Carey as anything but a popstar who was a bit strange (good) and who sang far too many notes when a single one would do (bad). Kinda intrigued now, might go investigate her further.

Thanks thread that's supposed to be about bad singers!

fakir said:

NorthC said: Also, his born again Christian album Slow Train Coming shows him in excellent shape vocally.

One of my favorites: Man gave names to all the animals...the vocals are just surprisingly perfect!

"You gotta serve somebody..."

RJOrion said:

Dylan sounds horrible Leon Russell sounds horrible stevie nicks sounds horrible tracy chapman sounds annoying george clinton couldnt sing for shit

Can't speak for Russell, but stevie, tracy, and Dr. Funkenstein all have that rock and roll verve and can sing what they need to sing when they need to sing it. They compose songs withing their abilities. In the case of Funkadelic/Parliament the vocal ensemble approach allowed George to step back and let people who could really blow, blow [I mean that in the old school sense of "saaaangggin'"]. Glen Goins, Phillipe Wynn, Gary Shider [all passed away sadly] all of those guys had octave range & George came in with harmony when necessary or his own trippy style.

Then you should love punk. All shitty singers.

Jello Biafra is the shit:

Fuck Hillary.

2freaky4church1 said:

Then you should love punk. All shitty singers.

Jello Biafra is the shit:

Yes, if by "the shit", you mean a first-class hypocrite and embezzler:

His ex-bandmates sued him (and won) for non-payment of royalties. This joker tried to claim that he'd never received money for the albums in question, but was summarily humiliated when the label provided the cashed checks.

"In May 2000, a jury found Biafra liable for fraud and malice and ordered him to pay $200,000, including $20,000 in punitive damages, to the band members. After an appeal by Biafra’s lawyers, in June 2003, the California Court of Appeal unanimously upheld all the conditions of the 2000 verdict against Biafra and Alternative Tentacles."


[img:$uid]http://i.imgur.com/NDNgxVR.jpg[/img:$uid]

I think we need to make a distinction here between shitty singers and singers who happen to have unique sounding voices.

As an example:

To call Leon Russell a poor singer misses the mark. If a singer can deliver the emotion behind the words and message of their songs and stay on key with instruments that's the key to the vocal performance.

And we also can't segregate the musical composition from the singing; at least I can't. If the music is kickin' and the vocal is hitting the right notes with soulful expression then the singer's unique voice quality becomes a totally subjective phenomena. You either like someone's voice or you don't and the fact that those criticized singers in this thread are making bank says more about we critics than it does about the singers.

Personally, I love Leon Russell's voice. He's authentic and passionate in both his singing and playing. In fact I have always fantasized about he and Dr. John doing a piano duets collaboration. Those two unique voices and their prodigious keyboard skills would be heaven to me.

I really can't think of any truly bad singers that are famous, at least not any from major record labels that focus on their bottom line. I occasionally hear poor singers in local bar bands or on home studio recordings but that's about it. These are people who like to sing but are tone deaf and have no sense of time.

To compare Tom Waits or Dr. John or Leon Russell or Bjork or Macy Gray to Steve Perry or Jon Anderson or David Clatyton Thomas or Christina Aguilera or Sarah Brightman is like comparing apples and oranges. They're both fruits and you might prefer one over the othe but you can't objectively say one is better. They are just different.