starbelly said:

You have to wonder why it's all over entertainment too. There are Black rappers and artists that never utter the word in their music but you won't see them being as popular as those that do. I think you aren't giving young people enough credit either. Young people have the internet, they can google. Young people learn about the word's origin in school. I think they know where it comes from, because if you call them out they will tell you that they're using the other version. They know.

You mean like the ones who say they've never heard of Paul McCartney? How many people spend a lot of time researching words for their free time and not for school? Many like to look up schoolyard fights, gossip, cats, and porn. Look at Tumblr, World Star Hip Hop, Hot Ghetto Mess & Vine.

.

"Conscious rap" doesn't sell a lot because some people don't want to be preached to or hear a history lesson, and it's not something you can dance to in a club. They want fun party music. If the mainstream wanted message music all the time, then folk music performers would have big hits. The majority of the songs and acts that have been popular over the decades had no particular social message, or they didn't do it much like Poison's Something To Believe In. Show business is about money, and the companies give the mainstream audiences what they want. The really popular acts finance the lower selling ones, like art films are financed by the blockbusters.

.

I didn't say all Black people like and use the n-word, but many do and they're the ones who are being heard. It's like PETA members complaining about meat eaters because they aren't. A lot of slang came from black people went into mainstream use like fresh, bling, def, rock n roll, diss, swag, "bad" as in good, "The Man", ect. If the n-word is in popular entertainment as a good thing by black people themselves, a substitute for buddy/friend, why would it get ignored and considered a bad thing by the listeners. The other words aren't. As far as the "a" instead of "er", that started to become popular around the late 1980s, like putting z at the end of words in place of "s" like "boyz". Not really much a difference, the older people said it the "er" way as a greeting. People thinking the word being cool started with hip hop or gangsta rap, it's not so. It's been done for decades. It might not have been in mainstream entertainment that much until the All In The Family era, but many Black people in the US said it amongst themselves.

As far as Richard Pryor goes, he appeared in Harlem Nights years after he said he stopped using it. Maybe he didn't say it, but other characters did, including in scenes Richard appear in. Why agree to appear in the movie at all if he felt that strongly about it?

[Edited 3/2/15 15:14pm]

namepeace said:

MickyDolenz said:

starbelly said:

People don't get angry when they can't say other racial slurs but somehow with the N-word everyone should have the "Freedom of Speech" to say it according to some.

There's a difference. Do those other ethnicities call each other those words as a greeting for buddy/homeboy/homegirl like some guys call each other "cat"? I've heard the N-word most my life from relatives, at school, and in the neighborhood. I lived in a rural area part of my life, and I've rarely heard people saying it there. It was in the city where I heard it a lot. It's been normalized, so it's hypocritical to say another race can't use a word that they say themselves. "Do as I say and not as I do" generally doesn't work. I recall Jewish groups complained about the K-word on Michael Jackson's They Don't Care About Us, and the word was bleeped out in later printings of HIStory. I didn't see anybody picketing about This Time Around, which is on the same album.

It's a double standards, no doubt. And for the record, I still listen to the original uncut version of They Don't Care About Us.

Good for Lionel....but.....Had Kanye chose Lionel to do a Duet with instead of Paul Lionel would have remained quiet and enjoyed the after-party tea and biscuits all night long....

phunkdaddy said:

namepeace said:

Richard Pryor put the word front and center at the height of his career. Did Lionel come out against Richard?

But SoulAlive has a point: the icons of hip-hop from the late 80s and 90s not only brought it into the public consciousness, they made it marketable. Not all uses of the word are created equal, but when you literally sell the word to the marketplace, this is what happens.

Richard eventually got to the point I think after a trip to Africa where he realized the word wasn't acceptable anymore and quit using it.

Indeed, Richard did so, in a very moving way. But I don't recall Lionel Richie speaking out against him at that time, which is not to knock Richard, but provide some context to Richie's comments decades later.

The context in which Richard used the word is different from the way it's marketed now. And to an extent the rappers SoulAlive mentioned. But over time, the word has become a marketing tool.

Chancellor said:

Good for Lionel....but.....Had Kanye chose Lionel to do a Duet with instead of Paul Lionel would have remained quiet and enjoyed the after-party tea and biscuits all night long....

I agree 100%.

Chancellor said:

Good for Lionel....but.....Had Kanye chose Lionel to do a Duet with instead of Paul Lionel would have remained quiet and enjoyed the after-party tea and biscuits all night long....

I wonder did Lionel make any public statement about family friend Paris Hilton calling herself and sister Nicki that?

Y'don't hear Jewish people referring 2 each other as "kikes." Y'don't hear Gay people referring 2 each other as "faggots." Y'don't hear people of Hispanic descent referring 2 each other as "spics." Why are members of the Black race then referring to each other as "niggas" and changing the "er" to an "a?" It still sounds as defamatory despite the end vowel. Besides, the word simply has a negative connotation. Why not refer 2 each other as "brutha" or "sista?" Wouldn't THAT be a welcome change in this ignorant society of ours? I just can't help but think of all the work people like MLK, Rosa Parks and so many others did to rid society of this ignorance only 2 have their "work" ignored. It's devastating and needless in my opinion. Of course, Hip Hop doesn't help the cause. It only enCOURAGES it. Very sad.

I loved Boss Nigger! Fred Williamson is the daddy I never had...good lawd!!! He never takes shit in any of his movies.

I don't find any words inherently offensive. Everything is contextual. I'm a faggot but if a straight person calls me that, depending on tone and context, it may be homophobic! But technically, I'm a faggot regardless and there's nothing wrong with that. Faggot = gay man.

MidniteMagnet said:

I loved Boss Nigger! Fred Williamson is the daddy I never had...good lawd!!! He never takes shit in any of his movies.

I don't find any words inherently offensive. Everything is contextual. I'm a faggot but if a straight person calls me that, depending on tone and context, it may be homophobic! But technically, I'm a faggot regardless and there's nothing wrong with that. Faggot = gay man.

Agreed. Words are words and we are the ones who shape them. We all should be cognizant enough to know if someone is saying something with the intent of disrespect or hatefulness. That's the thing about reclamation.

We get into murkier waters when people try to reclaim words never used to refer to them to begin with...

MickyDolenz said:

Cinny said:

I knew there would be more examples from the very vulgar 1990s!

The only song from the 1990s is This Time Around. Both The Temptations' & Stevie Wonder's records came out in 1972. The Last Poets 1st album came out in 1970 and they were saying it on their songs. Iceberg Slim's book Pimp came out in 1967. If you seen the concert movie Wattstax, it's said several times during the neighborhood interview scenes. Blowfly was out in the 1970s too.

Yeah, when I posted that, I meant examples where it overlapped with a Jackson, but I didn't type that! I definitely know about the timeline of the other links.

whitechocolatebrotha said:

Y'don't hear Jewish people referring 2 each other as "kikes." Y'don't hear Gay people referring 2 each other as "faggots." Y'don't hear people of Hispanic descent referring 2 each other as "spics." Why are members of the Black race then referring to each other as "niggas" and changing the "er" to an "a?" It still sounds as defamatory despite the end vowel. Besides, the word simply has a negative connotation. Why not refer 2 each other as "brutha" or "sista?" Wouldn't THAT be a welcome change in this ignorant society of ours? I just can't help but think of all the work people like MLK, Rosa Parks and so many others did to rid society of this ignorance only 2 have their "work" ignored. It's devastating and needless in my opinion. Of course, Hip Hop doesn't help the cause. It only enCOURAGES it. Very sad.

Yes, it is interesting to see so many people white and black who think this racial putdown is acceptable. I know that this would not be tolerated if a black person went around calling other races all sort of spics, fags, or kikes.

If you are black and you are okay with the N-word you are a Uncle Tom or too ignorant to live.

If you are white or any other race you are a racist or too ignorant too live.

Go read a history book and close you pie holes because you are going to use the N-word with the wrong black person and find a shoe up your ass.

Physical violence may not make you stop but it will teach you a lesson.

MickyDolenz said:

laurarichardson said:

What the fuck is your point?

You are a clueless asshole.

missfee said:

Chancellor said:

Good for Lionel....but.....Had Kanye chose Lionel to do a Duet with instead of Paul Lionel would have remained quiet and enjoyed the after-party tea and biscuits all night long....

I agree 100%.

Lionel Richie does not need Kayne and I doubt he is that type of Tom. Everybody is not for sale.

laurarichardson said:

missfee said:

I agree 100%.

Lionel Richie does not need Kayne and I doubt he is that type of Tom. Everybody is not for sale.

Nobody said that Richie needed Kanye but yes I do believe he IS that type of "Tom".

missfee said:

whitechocolatebrotha said:

Y'don't hear Jewish people referring 2 each other as "kikes." Y'don't hear Gay people referring 2 each other as "faggots." Y'don't hear people of Hispanic descent referring 2 each other as "spics." Why are members of the Black race then referring to each other as "niggas" and changing the "er" to an "a?" It still sounds as defamatory despite the end vowel. Besides, the word simply has a negative connotation. Why not refer 2 each other as "brutha" or "sista?" Wouldn't THAT be a welcome change in this ignorant society of ours? I just can't help but think of all the work people like MLK, Rosa Parks and so many others did to rid society of this ignorance only 2 have their "work" ignored. It's devastating and needless in my opinion. Of course, Hip Hop doesn't help the cause. It only enCOURAGES it. Very sad.

when i growing up, nigger was a much more of a putdown. nobody i knew used it as a sign of endearment. as you said, if someone was your brutha or sista, that's what you called them. if you were using the n-word to describe them or their behavior, it was with the same disdain that any white person used the word. sometimes, it could be put to comic effect, i.e., pryor, sanford & son. even in those instances when it's used, the person toward whom it's directed is the target of a putdown of some sort. generally, it wasn't something black people went around saying just for the heck of saying it. it was low class.

whitechocolatebrotha said:

Y'don't hear Jewish people referring 2 each other as "kikes." Y'don't hear Gay people referring 2 each other as "faggots." Y'don't hear people of Hispanic descent referring 2 each other as "spics." Why are members of the Black race then referring to each other as "niggas" and changing the "er" to an "a?" It still sounds as defamatory despite the end vowel. Besides, the word simply has a negative connotation. Why not refer 2 each other as "brutha" or "sista?" Wouldn't THAT be a welcome change in this ignorant society of ours? I just can't help but think of all the work people like MLK, Rosa Parks and so many others did to rid society of this ignorance only 2 have their "work" ignored. It's devastating and needless in my opinion. Of course, Hip Hop doesn't help the cause. It only enCOURAGES it. Very sad.

Yeah,it's a shame,isn't it? I remember sometime in the late 80s (or early 90s?),Jesse Jackson tried to put together a "funeral" for the N-word.I think some rappers even joined his crusade to stop using that word.It was a great idea,but obviously it didn't work.

kibbles said:

whitechocolatebrotha said:

Y'don't hear Jewish people referring 2 each other as "kikes." Y'don't hear Gay people referring 2 each other as "faggots." Y'don't hear people of Hispanic descent referring 2 each other as "spics." Why are members of the Black race then referring to each other as "niggas" and changing the "er" to an "a?" It still sounds as defamatory despite the end vowel. Besides, the word simply has a negative connotation. Why not refer 2 each other as "brutha" or "sista?" Wouldn't THAT be a welcome change in this ignorant society of ours? I just can't help but think of all the work people like MLK, Rosa Parks and so many others did to rid society of this ignorance only 2 have their "work" ignored. It's devastating and needless in my opinion. Of course, Hip Hop doesn't help the cause. It only enCOURAGES it. Very sad.

when i growing up, nigger was a much more of a putdown. nobody i knew used it as a sign of endearment. as you said, if someone was your brutha or sista, that's what you called them. if you were using the n-word to describe them or their behavior, it was with the same disdain that any white person used the word. sometimes, it could be put to comic effect, i.e., pryor, sanford & son. even in those instances when it's used, the person toward whom it's directed is the target of a putdown of some sort. generally, it wasn't something black people went around saying just for the heck of saying it. it was low class.

Different strokes for different folks...

I would bet any money I could scrounge up that using the N word is not the same as ignoring civil rights achievements or the activists that fought for them. Many, likely most show reverence to all of those civil rights leaders and pioneers you listed.

Some people think the N word is deplorable. Some people think the N word is, at least currently, a word thats equivalent to brutha. Many people use it with affection... many different races currently use it with affection.

The N word does not automatically have a negative connotation to a vast amount of people. The N word is not widely used as a putdown anymore, so as such, the word has largely evolved.

There is some terrible baggage associated with the N word, but honestly, its no longer used in the same manner, as historically. It doesn't matter what Jewish, gay, or hispanic people have done with their historical put downs; for whatever reason, the N word has made an evolution.

If the word was no longer used, I don't have a problem with it. For people who don't want to use it, I don't have a problem with that. But, for people who do use it in a manner that is clearly not racist or insulting... no big deal...

pdiddy2011 said:

kibbles said:

when i growing up, nigger was a much more of a putdown. nobody i knew used it as a sign of endearment. as you said, if someone was your brutha or sista, that's what you called them. if you were using the n-word to describe them or their behavior, it was with the same disdain that any white person used the word. sometimes, it could be put to comic effect, i.e., pryor, sanford & son. even in those instances when it's used, the person toward whom it's directed is the target of a putdown of some sort. generally, it wasn't something black people went around saying just for the heck of saying it. it was low class.

Different strokes for different folks...

I would bet any money I could scrounge up that using the N word is not the same as ignoring civil rights achievements or the activists that fought for them. Many, likely most show reverence to all of those civil rights leaders and pioneers you listed.

Some people think the N word is deplorable. Some people think the N word is, at least currently, a word thats equivalent to brutha. Many people use it with affection... many different races currently use it with affection.

The N word does not automatically have a negative connotation to a vast amount of people. The N word is not widely used as a putdown anymore, so as such, the word has largely evolved.

There is some terrible baggage associated with the N word, but honestly, its no longer used in the same manner, as historically. It doesn't matter what Jewish, gay, or hispanic people have done with their historical put downs; for whatever reason, the N word has made an evolution.

If the word was no longer used, I don't have a problem with it. For people who don't want to use it, I don't have a problem with that. But, for people who do use it in a manner that is clearly not racist or insulting... no big deal...

there's really not a clear cut solution until a clear cut solution is presented to address the core root problem and why the world was brought forth to begin with...the word reverberates back centuries

when that word is used, history recalls it time and time again

from personal experience throughout the years, the N-word, for the people who uphold in the black community, it's often used as either a badge of honor for surviving the many obstacles we have exclusively had to face (that's my ni***) or to remind the obstacles that still exist when an individual is given a change to move outside of that realm (you forget where you come from ni***)

then its used to identify the context, the fabric of a sub-culture, a sub culture brought forth because the previous generations of culture has been exploited and the virtues that came out of those previous generations of culture have been compromised....so the generation who follows excalates the usage of the word the more its identity w/in society feels threatened.....to stand out, which has evolved into the proliferation of getting tattoos in an attempt to stand out even more

so it goes from a badge of honor, to a point of reference, to a means of preserving ones self identity, it becomes perpetual in a sense because no people should have to be confronted w/the day to day struggle a single group of people has faced since the country's inception, then it gets back to the root core problem is that a people was taken from its homeland and to denigrate ones humanity, a people was identified as the N-Word to justify the practice of the very institution this country was built from.........

so when people use it who are outside of the community, they dont' know the word is being used for multiple reasons under many circumstances and that's where the problem lies...

not justifying its usage, but there is no right or wrong until the original wrong is finally addressed, and if it ever was, then there would no longer be a need to use that word because society would begin planting the seeds for true equality, then it will have no more bearing, or no more power