BlackCat1985 said:

Scorp said:

wow, I didn't know this

McClain wanted her to do that?

After the success of Control John McClain didn't think Janet would continue on to be the successful artist that she became. John didn't want Jimmy and Terry to work with Janet anymore. He even lied and told Janet that they didn't want to work with her. Janet had to call Jimmy up herself to let them know that she wanted to work with them again. John wanted Janet to release an album called "Scandal" in which Janet would expose a lot of the Jackson family secrets especially concerning Mj. Janet refused to do this and instead recorded Rhythm Nation. I always felt that the track "You Need Me" was about Joe Jackson. Even tho Janet insisted that it wasn't. In 2008 Janet told Billboard that John really had nothing to do with Rhythm Nation. Jimmy has also said that Janet and John bumped heads constantly. He said that they just couldn't see eye to eye on anything. [Edited 9/20/14 9:22am]

I didn't know all this either! Imagine them not wanting her to work with JJ/TL again. Wow.

Scorp said:

alphastreet said:

BlackCat1985 said:

Scorp said:

wow, I did not know this.....

this confirms what I've been trying to share with MJ's fans of the past 25 years, particularly since the 90s

opportunists w/in the industry had been trying to destroy the Jackson's family dynamic after MJ reached what turned out to be his career pinnacle with THRILLER

this definitely confirms it big time....

as early as 1986, Jermaine Jackson did an interview with Donnie Simpson on BET'S former show Video Soul that opportunists were becoming targets of divide and conquer

No wonder why Rhythm Nation was a creation done so inconsqicuously.....

thanks for sharing this

That's why when all of the stuff starting happening with Mjs' estate with the family not getting along with them. I knew exactly why Janet was against it. She knows how John is and she knows that he didn't give a shit about Mj.

amen

BlackCat1985 said:

alphastreet said:

BlackCat1985 said:

BlackCat1985 said:

That's why when all of the stuff starting happening with Mjs' estate with the family not getting along with them. I knew exactly why Janet was against it. She knows how John is and she knows that he didn't give a shit about Mj.

Janet was against it because of things Randy was telling her and they wanted to try to overthrow his Estate but failed. It has been heavily noted that her record label wanted another Control, basically an album filled with pop/dance songs and they did not like the social political idea of RN (which was risky at the time). I respect Janet's decision and determination. I would like to know where you got this info about the album originally being called Scandel because this is the first I ever heard of this.

alphastreet said:

BlackCat1985 said:

mjscarousal said:

alphastreet said:

7. Janet Jackson Was The First Women To Break Down The Racial Barriers In Pop

Absolutely not. Names as Diana Ross, Whitney Houston chipped down the color barriers prior to Janet Jackson.

BlackCat1985 said:

mjscarousal said:

Janet was against it because of things Randy was telling her and they wanted to try to overthrow his Estate but failed. It has been heavily noted that her record label wanted another Control, basically an album filled with pop/dance songs and they did not like the social political idea of RN (which was risky at the time). I respect Janet's decision and determination. I would like to know where you got this info about the album originally being called Scandel because this is the first I ever heard of this.

I believe Janet was against the estate because of her knowledge about John McClain. I don't know what Randy told Janet or Rebbie. But it seemed odd to me that Janet and Rebbie would be apart of this because they are the ones who tend to stay out of things. As far as the Scandal album. I had heard about this years ago from a documentary called Headliners and legends featuring Janet. Jimmy even mentioned this in that new Billboard piece. The interviewer asked him about it. He claimed that he never heard anything about the album being named Scandal,but he did confirm that A&M wanted a Control part 2.

I don't think Janet's involvement had anything to do with John Mcclain and more to do with other things but I will just leave it at that. The Scandel title sounds like a rumor and was never really confirmed as a fact. As far as I have always known her record label wanted a control part 2.

[Edited 9/20/14 14:27pm]

alphastreet said:

BlackCat1985 said:

I don't want a album from Janet if Janet is not going to participate in it. You can tell when she puts her input in the music. 20Y.0 and discipline did not seem like Janet albums to me. I do think that Mjs' death had a profound effect on her. Maybe it made her realize that it ain't all about the music and fame. It doesn't stop me from missing her presents on the music front tho.

Yeah I agree they are nothing like her 80's and 90's work except for a handful of tracks. I think if anything, after mjs death I could not get excited for anybody's era again and think the industry and business aspect is ugly. I do like what Beyonce is trying to do with bringing back excitement but it will never be the same again as with the Jacksons. I have a feeling janet has been angry for a long time and who can blame her? [Edited 9/20/14 13:31pm]

I agree with the bolded. I think Janet has been angry quite a while as well. I think she feels hurt that a lot of her peers and the industry screwed her over and turned their back on her. I think she is living and enjoying her life but I also think she is done with the mainstream industry. I would be too. Overall, the industry has not been to kind to the Jacksons who I feel are a national treasure. The industry is very two faced. When you are on top, everyone loves you and everything is all good but as soon as controversy erupts people turn their back on you. The industry is very fake and only cares about how much money a pop star can generate for it. It is unfornate how her career turned out.

I remember,in the late 80s,hearing about the Scandal album.It was John McClain's idea.He wanted Janet to record an entire album focused on the scandals in her family He told her that it would be a big seller.Needless to say,Janet told him where to stick that idea,lol.

SoulAlive said:

If there is one word that needs to be stricken from the lexicon it is "stan". It's annoying as hell, particularly because it's derived from Eminem of all people. It's beyond played out at this point. Think of something new and creative.

^^These multiple Janet threads are only recent. She's never even gotten a sticky as I can recall, even when there's new info about her projects, etc. And many of the threads I've seen with the exception of the more recent ones are unflattering that question whether or not she was ever any good, her pop icon status, etc.

rollingout.com/music/rhyt...a-michael/

Rhythm Nation 1814, Janet Jackson’s magnum opus and blockbuster follow-up to her 1986 breakthrough album Control, celebrates its 25th anniversary this week. In looking back at the towering achievement, steered by superproducers Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, it may be easy to miss how far ahead of the pop pack this album was at the time. But Rhythm Nation proved that the success of its predecessor was no fluke, that Janet was more than just Michael Jackson’s little sister, and that she had taken a quantum leap forward.

And in doing so she passed both her big brother and the biggest pop diva of the time, Madonna.

Before you write angry emails, let me clarify that statement.

Janet was not the prodigious talent that Michael Jackson was. He was a much better singer, an otherworldly performer and an actual songwriter. He was undeniably the biggest star of his era. As for Madonna, she was a master of media manipulation and reinvention, who churned out some of the most indelible pop singles of the era. But with Rhythm Nation, Janet Jackson delivered an album that was far more ambitious than any LP Michael or Madonna had produced up to that point; much more thematically and sonically cohesive than their contemporaneous releases, Bad and Like A Prayer.

A decade removed from Off the Wall and the biggest pop star in the universe, Michael had never attempted a concept album like Rhythm Nation; and even his best albums (Off the Wall and Thriller, in case that needed pointing out) were never quite the perfect long players that Janet’s late 80’s albums were. Does anyone really love “The Girl Is Mine”? Bad was MJ’s first album of the CD era, and it included more songs than his previous two classics. He wrote almost the entire album, but the extra space only meant more filler: tracks like “Just Good Friends” and “Speed Demon” would’ve never made it onto Thriller. The “worst” songs on Rhythm Nation 1814 stand head and shoulders above the worst tracks on Bad. And even most of the best songs–go back and listen to the respective title tracks on each album. You tell me which is a better song.

As far as Madonna, she was never quite the album-maker that Janet Jackson had proven herself to be alongside Jam and Lewis. Her best 80’s album, Like A Prayer, can’t really be held higher than Rhythm Nation or Control. She and Patrick Leonard made magic together, but …Prayer still has a tremendous amount of filler and its conceptualism is much more implied than actualized. Rhythm Nation is as cohesive as the concept albums of the early 70s were. Madonna’s greatest strength lies in her hit singles, more so than her albums. Jam and Lewis may have done much of the heavy lifting, but you always felt like you were getting Janet’s vision and perspective on her albums. Especially on Rhythm Nation.

Social commentary was driving hip-hop at the time of Rhythm Nation 1814, and Janet showed herself more in tune with that genre and culture than any major pop star had been thus far. It could be argued that on Control, Jam & Lewis laid the foundation for New Jack Swing (though no one called it that yet), and on Rhythm Nation, they expanded the style’s artistic possibilities. The dance-heavy beats and thundering production gave a certain heft to the socio-political musings throughout the record, giving a certain grounding in reality that made Michael’s work with “We Are the World” four years earlier seem mawkish and banal.

We are conditioned to think of the 80s pop trifecta of Michael, Madonna and Prince as the “Holy Trinity” of post-disco pop stars; but in 1989, Janet elbowed her way to the front of the pack. She wasn’t as otherworldly as Michael, as mass-marketed as Madonna or as artistically gifted as Prince; but she released the last truly great album of the 80s and proved that she was didn’t have to take a backseat to any of them anymore. And she trumped two of the biggest stars of her era with an album that has aged better than some of their best work.

does that top picture have to be so hideous tho?

SEANMAN said:

rollingout.com/music/rhyt...a-michael/

Rhythm Nation 1814, Janet Jackson’s magnum opus and blockbuster follow-up to her 1986 breakthrough album Control, celebrates its 25th anniversary this week. In looking back at the towering achievement, steered by superproducers Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, it may be easy to miss how far ahead of the pop pack this album was at the time. But Rhythm Nation proved that the success of its predecessor was no fluke, that Janet was more than just Michael Jackson’s little sister, and that she had taken a quantum leap forward.

And in doing so she passed both her big brother and the biggest pop diva of the time, Madonna.

Before you write angry emails, let me clarify that statement.

Janet was not the prodigious talent that Michael Jackson was. He was a much better singer, an otherworldly performer and an actual songwriter. He was undeniably the biggest star of his era. As for Madonna, she was a master of media manipulation and reinvention, who churned out some of the most indelible pop singles of the era. But with Rhythm Nation, Janet Jackson delivered an album that was far more ambitious than any LP Michael or Madonna had produced up to that point; much more thematically and sonically cohesive than their contemporaneous releases, Bad and Like A Prayer.

A decade removed from Off the Wall and the biggest pop star in the universe, Michael had never attempted a concept album like Rhythm Nation; and even his best albums (Off the Wall and Thriller, in case that needed pointing out) were never quite the perfect long players that Janet’s late 80’s albums were. Does anyone really love “The Girl Is Mine”? Bad was MJ’s first album of the CD era, and it included more songs than his previous two classics. He wrote almost the entire album, but the extra space only meant more filler: tracks like “Just Good Friends” and “Speed Demon” would’ve never made it onto Thriller. The “worst” songs on Rhythm Nation 1814 stand head and shoulders above the worst tracks on Bad. And even most of the best songs–go back and listen to the respective title tracks on each album. You tell me which is a better song.

As far as Madonna, she was never quite the album-maker that Janet Jackson had proven herself to be alongside Jam and Lewis. Her best 80’s album, Like A Prayer, can’t really be held higher than Rhythm Nation or Control. She and Patrick Leonard made magic together, but …Prayer still has a tremendous amount of filler and its conceptualism is much more implied than actualized. Rhythm Nation is as cohesive as the concept albums of the early 70s were. Madonna’s greatest strength lies in her hit singles, more so than her albums. Jam and Lewis may have done much of the heavy lifting, but you always felt like you were getting Janet’s vision and perspective on her albums. Especially on Rhythm Nation.

Social commentary was driving hip-hop at the time of Rhythm Nation 1814, and Janet showed herself more in tune with that genre and culture than any major pop star had been thus far. It could be argued that on Control, Jam & Lewis laid the foundation for New Jack Swing (though no one called it that yet), and on Rhythm Nation, they expanded the style’s artistic possibilities. The dance-heavy beats and thundering production gave a certain heft to the socio-political musings throughout the record, giving a certain grounding in reality that made Michael’s work with “We Are the World” four years earlier seem mawkish and banal.

We are conditioned to think of the 80s pop trifecta of Michael, Madonna and Prince as the “Holy Trinity” of post-disco pop stars; but in 1989, Janet elbowed her way to the front of the pack. She wasn’t as otherworldly as Michael, as mass-marketed as Madonna or as artistically gifted as Prince; but she released the last truly great album of the 80s and proved that she was didn’t have to take a backseat to any of them anymore. And she trumped two of the biggest stars of her era with an album that has aged better than some of their best work.

really great points. don't know if they're all true (speed demon fuckin rules) but Janet always delivered - never ONE filler on her classic albums ("Special" excepted).

Janet Jackson was fucking shite. She alongside her team(s), has "influenced" a load of shite too. Nothing to be proud of. Only in 'murica would something as paint by numbers as her be now held up as significant.

badujunkie said:

SEANMAN said:

rollingout.com/music/rhyt...a-michael/

Rhythm Nation 1814, Janet Jackson’s magnum opus and blockbuster follow-up to her 1986 breakthrough album Control, celebrates its 25th anniversary this week. In looking back at the towering achievement, steered by superproducers Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, it may be easy to miss how far ahead of the pop pack this album was at the time. But Rhythm Nation proved that the success of its predecessor was no fluke, that Janet was more than just Michael Jackson’s little sister, and that she had taken a quantum leap forward.

And in doing so she passed both her big brother and the biggest pop diva of the time, Madonna.

Before you write angry emails, let me clarify that statement.

Janet was not the prodigious talent that Michael Jackson was. He was a much better singer, an otherworldly performer and an actual songwriter. He was undeniably the biggest star of his era. As for Madonna, she was a master of media manipulation and reinvention, who churned out some of the most indelible pop singles of the era. But with Rhythm Nation, Janet Jackson delivered an album that was far more ambitious than any LP Michael or Madonna had produced up to that point; much more thematically and sonically cohesive than their contemporaneous releases, Bad and Like A Prayer.

A decade removed from Off the Wall and the biggest pop star in the universe, Michael had never attempted a concept album like Rhythm Nation; and even his best albums (Off the Wall and Thriller, in case that needed pointing out) were never quite the perfect long players that Janet’s late 80’s albums were. Does anyone really love “The Girl Is Mine”? Bad was MJ’s first album of the CD era, and it included more songs than his previous two classics. He wrote almost the entire album, but the extra space only meant more filler: tracks like “Just Good Friends” and “Speed Demon” would’ve never made it onto Thriller. The “worst” songs on Rhythm Nation 1814 stand head and shoulders above the worst tracks on Bad. And even most of the best songs–go back and listen to the respective title tracks on each album. You tell me which is a better song.

As far as Madonna, she was never quite the album-maker that Janet Jackson had proven herself to be alongside Jam and Lewis. Her best 80’s album, Like A Prayer, can’t really be held higher than Rhythm Nation or Control. She and Patrick Leonard made magic together, but …Prayer still has a tremendous amount of filler and its conceptualism is much more implied than actualized. Rhythm Nation is as cohesive as the concept albums of the early 70s were. Madonna’s greatest strength lies in her hit singles, more so than her albums. Jam and Lewis may have done much of the heavy lifting, but you always felt like you were getting Janet’s vision and perspective on her albums. Especially on Rhythm Nation.

Social commentary was driving hip-hop at the time of Rhythm Nation 1814, and Janet showed herself more in tune with that genre and culture than any major pop star had been thus far. It could be argued that on Control, Jam & Lewis laid the foundation for New Jack Swing (though no one called it that yet), and on Rhythm Nation, they expanded the style’s artistic possibilities. The dance-heavy beats and thundering production gave a certain heft to the socio-political musings throughout the record, giving a certain grounding in reality that made Michael’s work with “We Are the World” four years earlier seem mawkish and banal.

We are conditioned to think of the 80s pop trifecta of Michael, Madonna and Prince as the “Holy Trinity” of post-disco pop stars; but in 1989, Janet elbowed her way to the front of the pack. She wasn’t as otherworldly as Michael, as mass-marketed as Madonna or as artistically gifted as Prince; but she released the last truly great album of the 80s and proved that she was didn’t have to take a backseat to any of them anymore. And she trumped two of the biggest stars of her era with an album that has aged better than some of their best work.

really great points. don't know if they're all true (speed demon fuckin rules) but Janet always delivered - never ONE filler on her classic albums ("Special" excepted).

I agree because Speed Demon is an awesome track, but the rest is spot on.

SEANMAN said:

If there is one word that needs to be stricken from the lexicon it is "stan". It's annoying as hell, particularly because it's derived from Eminem of all people. It's beyond played out at this point. Think of something new and creative.

spoken like a true stan

Askani said:

SEANMAN said:

If there is one word that needs to be stricken from the lexicon it is "stan". It's annoying as hell, particularly because it's derived from Eminem of all people. It's beyond played out at this point. Think of something new and creative.

spoken like a true stan

It's even more annoying when it comes from buttheads.