databank said:

lezama said:

I grew up listening to Lenny (then stopped when he became too generic), I somehow missed the TTD bus and never got on, so I can't really evaluate the two of them side by side. For the TTD fans here, what two albums would you recommend as starters for a newbie to his music?

Introducing The Hardline According To has all the hits and is the obvious starter.

Then I'd say Symphony Or Damn because it's most likely what could be considered his masterpiece.

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My sentiments exactly.

no question TTD

I remember being on this site about 8 years ago and this exact same topic was being discussed. The verdict was the same too. TTD all the way... no contest. For once I agree with the org.

Musicslave said:

databank said:

Introducing The Hardline According To has all the hits and is the obvious starter.

Then I'd say Symphony Or Damn because it's most likely what could be considered his masterpiece.

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My sentiments exactly.

Mine too.

Lenny gets hated on a lot. And TTD praised a lot .. and that is just on this website, lol.

They both have great moments and shitty moments.

Too me, it's like a comparison that ?uestlove made.

P-Funk vs. EWF and I'll leave it at that.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Lenny gets hated on a lot. And TTD praised a lot .. and that is just on this website, lol.

They both have great moments and shitty moments.

Too me, it's like a comparison that ?uestlove made.

P-Funk vs. EWF and I'll leave it at that.

I think TTD was special 4 many of us in a way Lenny never was because TTD was much more intimate than Lenny in his lyrics and even music AND very daring, and that's something that reminded us fans of 's work and we all liked that, and I think the fact that TTD was like a cursed, misunderstood artist when Lenny was a tremendous success also made a difference in our hearts. U know how it is, it's like those artists who dies young and become saints in the hearts of the fans. In the end I think it's not so much that anyone here really feels that TTD is "better" (whetever that means) than LK, it's just that TTD's work and fate made us feel we were treated a rare, precious, almost secret thing when at the same time all the girls in the world used 2 wet their pants 4 Lenny, so no matter how good his music, he wasn't so "special".

missfee said:

Lenny for me. Never really got into TTD that much.

Co-sign.

Gunsnhalen said:

I'll also say this again...

Idk why Lenny is shit on so bad. Why D'angelo and Beck are so praised. Now, i'm a D'angelo fan. And a VERY BIG beck fan...

But Lenny wore his inspirations on his sleeves to a t. He's also a multi instumentalist, producer, and even had albums produced to sound like older material. SAME SHIT BECK & D DID. Yet those 2 get there dicks sucked by all the critics and Lenny is seen as a hack.

Sure Lenny had his cheesy or just plain bad moments. But he does the same exact thing as the other two... so what gives?

Co-sign.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I will check them out.

duccichucka said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I'll also say this again...

Idk why Lenny is shit on so bad. Why D'angelo and Beck are so praised. Now, i'm a D'angelo fan. And a VERY BIG beck fan...

But Lenny wore his inspirations on his sleeves to a t. He's also a multi instumentalist, producer, and even had albums produced to sound like older material. SAME SHIT BECK & D DID. Yet those 2 get there dicks sucked by all the critics and Lenny is seen as a hack.

Sure Lenny had his cheesy or just plain bad moments. But he does the same exact thing as the other two... so what gives?

Co-sign.

I think Lenny got too famous. D'Angelo, TTD, Beck, Raphael Saadiq, Macy Gray, whoever... they're famous, they're relatively big sellers but they're not superstars. I think when u're that level u're just as famous as u can b b4 u're too famous to be a hipster or a tastemaker's pet toy: people r proud to appreciate ur work because they can still impress lots of people by making them discover ur music, and music critics feel they're still contributing to help deserving artists get an audience. When u've reached Lenny's level u're not rare nor precious anymore. Just everyfuckinbody and their cousin knows ur work. 17 years old high skool girls wet their pants staring at ur poster on their bedroom's wall. I mean honestly every hipster, if asked, will tell u they like Lenny's work. Of course they do. Lenny isn't Bryan Adams, people won't laugh at u. They'll tell u his work is "OK", that it's "nice", but it's too famous to really be "cool". The others above r the kind of artists they can rave about safely. Very few artists have gained the level of celebrity Lenny has and remained totally "cool" at the same time. , Stevie Wonder, Björk and Kate Bush probably did because liking their music indicated a certain level of sophistication (even though I'm not even sure to which extent Björk and Kate were that famous outside of music afficionados and hip circles). Madonna did because she was a gay icon and too provocative not to be "cool". But most of the others u could say u liked their work but u weren't gonna rave about them 4 2 hours if u c what I mean. Lenny is just a victim of his success but deep down every hipster and music critic knows he's as deserving as the ones u mention.

Arent they BOTH in the Prince University Circle Jerk?? TTD, Kravitz, Seal, D'angelo........they all get together and sperminate into one vial hoping to create somthing close to Prince

luvsexy4all said:

Arent they BOTH in the Prince University Circle Jerk?? TTD, Kravitz, Seal, D'angelo........they all get together and sperminate into one vial hoping to create somthing close to Prince

Seal did something else entirely, no connection 2 whatsoever save borrowing a keyboards sound on Violet on his first album. Seal was also a whole other level than D'Angelo and Kravitz and even D'Arby in a way. He did his own thing, truly, brilliantly, there was virtually no precedent to what he was doing. It was more connected to the British electronic scene than to American R&B anyway. He was possibly another victim of the music industry, alongside TTD. After 3 mindblowing records his label declined to release his 4th because it wasn't commercial enough (officially he decided not 2 release the record by himself, though, so IDK, the record is still unheard to this day, I don't think it's been bootlegged, only a full song was released as a stand alone single). Unlike TTD Seal took his lesson and ever since released very commercial albums that are still nice but lack the depth of the first 3 IMHO. And as Lenny and TTD he keeps doing the same thing over and over again. His second album in particular is one I listened to in a loop back in 96, I couldn't stop listening to it, late at night.

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When I come 2 think of it there were a lot of tremendously talented songwriters back then. The music industry still took the time to discover talents instead of "making stars" from scractch thru auditions and reality shows. I guess the Spice Girls were a big sign of the begining of the end.

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Another extremenly talented songwriter was Prince Be of PM Dawn (there were obvious connections between the smooth sounds and introverted lyrics of Seal and PM Dawn). PM Dawn was a unique band in the hip-hop scene. Totally UNgangsta. Totally free of the social obsessions and racial preoccupations of hip-hop. Lyrics, like with TTD, were focused on internal dilemmas, metaphysical preoccupations, religious topics, psycholanalysis and so on. Prince Be was notoriously suffering from depresion and that led to PM Dawn's fourth album, "Dear Christian, I'm So Sorry For Bringing You Here... Love, Dad". Christian was Be's newborn son: that says it all. The album has the most depressive lyrics ever and is very humble musically speaking but very well constructed when u go thru the first impresion: it's the kind of thing that grows on you, not the kind of thing that blows ur mind on the first listen. A true masterpiece, honest! Then PM Dawn's label found that they didn't sell anymore and that was the end of them.

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And then there was also Me'Shell Ndegeocello. A truly unique artist as well. And Ambersunshower who was only allowed to release one album in 1996 and nobody knew about it but it was much more than your average R&B artist, she truly had a signature sound of her own.

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I mean I'm totally in love with the current music scene but most of what I listen 2 r artists that r signed on small labels. Back then, until the mid 90's, u could safely count on majors to discover talented people. They wouldn't last long if they wouldn't sell but at least they were given a chance. Majors claim the blame 4 the change goes 2 illegal downloads and the loss of income that don't allow them to take risks and the time to develop artists anymore but I call BS because the trend had started by the late 90's/early 2000's, long before P2P became a common practice and direct download even existed.

databank said:

4 me it ain't so much Introducing The Hardline, it's Neither Fish Not Flesh, Symphony Or Damn and Vibrator. After a totally unnoticed first album in 84 as a member of The Touch, TTD had a mind blowing solo debut in terms of songwriting and production (and success), then suddenly (and against Sony's advice) became a mind blowing experimental, intellectual, literary artist! Those 3 albums really say something lyrically and are really daring musically speaking. Let's be honest, he killed his career by trying to do ATWIAD/Parade with his second album without realizing that had waited not only to be a major star but also to consolidate a faithful fanbase before going against the wind. WB would say made the same mistake in the end but had he done it in 1980, even if Prince (the album) had been a tremendous success, this forum probably wouldn't even exist in the first place. An easy 3 quarter of those who'd bought Purple Rain were soon gone but all of those who were there before stayed aboard. But TTD had no such thing in 89: he had no true fanbase and very few of his original listeners stayed aboard when he went wild. One could argue that Dirty Mind, Controversy and 1999 were a bold moves as well but they were all about what music was in 1980, while Neither Fish Nor Flesh was totally at odds with what 1989 was, the same way ATWIAD was at odds with 1985. Had TTD gone new jack swing for a few records before doing an album that starts with 20 minutes of strings and atmospheric ballads, it may have worked.

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Lenny is tremendously talented too but one could argue that his first 2 albums had little to do with what 89 and 91 were about as well, but he managed to be a precursor of what would soon be a major wave of nostalgia for the 70's and a huge rejection of the 80's and he kept surfing on that wave by keeping things simple. Lenny's songwriting, despite a few experiments on Mama Said, remained very accessible overall, very catchy while at the same time, despite having a lot of 70's nostalgia in it as well, TTD kept developping philosophical ideas and creating songs that sounded more like psychoanalysis than like pop music! I mean I think She Kissed Me is much more powerful than Are You Gonna Go My Way but the later is much more likely to appeal your average 17 years old girl than the first one, and its hook will remain in your mind much longer than She Kissed Me's tormented atmosphere.

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So yeah overall for those who followed him at the time, TTD will remain this totally misunderstood genius whose record company failed to support and that the ignorant masses ignored, and that gives him much more depth than Lenny even though his first 5 albums were solid as rock. So yeah despite really loving Lenny's first 5 albums, my vote goes to TTD as well because when I listened to Lenny's albums it was more like "yeah, now that's cool" and when I listened to TTD it was more like "WTF?! This is totally insane!".

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In the end they both dilluted themselves in themselves if u ask me. I haven't heard yet all of their 2000's albums but the ones I have are nowhere near what both of them produced between Introducing and Wild Card for TTD and Let Love Rule and 5 for Lenny: both are kind of stuck in a loop, doing the same thing but without the solar efficiency of Lenny's early works and the systematic boldness of TTD's early efforts. I think Lenny owes it to himself to really go wild on one album and maybe do some crazy, violent funk-rock with destructured songwriting, while TTD needs to become again as ambitious as he once was and take us deep down in the depth of his soul again with complex arrangements that go beyond his now typical piano/guitar/bass/drums signature sound.

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Just my opinion, though.

I love that response and agree completely.