Sussudio is the jam

Probably because Phil is considered "adult contemporary/light rock" and rock fans/critics have never really been friendly to AC or "easy listening" acts. They rarely, if at all, put acts like Kenny G, Air Supply, Christopher Cross, Lawrence Welk, Michael Bolton, Barry Manilow, Barbra Striesand, ect. on any best lists. Some light rock performers get jokes made about them like "yacht rock". Some of the so-called "yacht rock" acts recieved R&B airplay as well, like Toto, Player, Ambrosia, Boz Scaggs, Doobie Brothers/Michael McDonald, Dr. Hook, Michael Franks, Bobby Caldwell, Hall & Oates, Steely Dan, and others. Some of the musicians (generally called Westcoast music) played on R&B singers records from the late 1970s/early 1980s, particularly Toto. Session guitarist Jay Graydon was on many of the Westcoast records playing and/or producing. A lot of those acts were not taken seriously by rock critics either. It might be because light rock and AC acts tend to be more popular with women, so it's "soft" and not "macho" like the more blues based rock that tends to get praised. I've noticed that music that has a larger female base is less likely to be praised by rock critics, which are usually male. It's the same with movies - action movies are cool, "chick flicks" are not.

Dont make me post the Against All Odds Video.

MickyDolenz said:

Probably because Phil is considered "adult contemporary/light rock" and rock fans/critics have never really been friendly to AC or "easy listening" acts. They rarely, if at all, put acts like Kenny G, Air Supply, Christopher Cross, Lawrence Welk, Michael Bolton, Barry Manilow, Barbra Striesand, ect. on any best lists. Some light rock performers get jokes made about them like "yacht rock". Some of the so-called "yacht rock" acts recieved R&B airplay as well, like Toto, Player, Ambrosia, Boz Scaggs, Doobie Brothers/Michael McDonald, Dr. Hook, Michael Franks, Bobby Caldwell, Hall & Oates, Steely Dan, and others. Some of the musicians (generally called Westcoast music) played on R&B singers records from the late 1970s/early 1980s, particularly Toto. Session guitarist Jay Graydon was on many of the Westcoast records playing and/or producing. A lot of those acts were not taken seriously by rock critics either. It might be because light rock and AC acts tend to be more popular with women, so it's "soft" and not "macho" like the more blues based rock that tends to get praised. I've noticed that music that has a larger female base is less likely to be praised by rock critics, which are usually male. It's the same with movies - action movies are cool, "chick flicks" are not.

Wow, that is kind of true. I forgot how sexist the music world can be at times.

lazycrockett said:

Dont make me post the Against All Odds Video.

PC has never been known to be a great video artist. Though that video to In the Air Tonight is still edgy despite the year it first aired (to me anyway).

Timmy84 said:

lazycrockett said:

Dont make me post the Against All Odds Video.

PC has never been known to be a great video artist. Though that video to In the Air Tonight is still edgy despite the year it first aired (to me anyway).

I always thought this was a funny and clever video. It kind of showed he didn't care about the video making he was just like ''yeah sure whatever works''

The problem with Phil is................he had cred and he started out fine, but as the 80's progressed he just became more and more lame. Hell by the 90s he was doing Disney shit. He just became shtick.

He does have chops on the drums though.

lazycrockett said:

The problem with Phil is................he had cred and he started out fine, but as the 80's progressed he just became more and more lame. Hell by the 90s he was doing Disney shit. He just became shtick.

But Gensis fans seem to dismiss him all together...

They can diss him all they want. But all those beloved Gabriel era records (Which are great) Have Phil playing on them. So... he is still apart of the classic records love em or hate him.

And he was somewhat versatile. he had the cheesy ballads... but he could get dark too. Even political! he wasn't just making song after song about being in love. He wasn't a white Lionel or anything

Im not saying he isnt talented, and I have no problem with him in Gensis even after Gabriel left. All Im saying is that his music devolved into nothing but as you put it cheesy ballads. It has nothing to do with becoming AC or whatever. His output just became blah.

lazycrockett said:

Im not saying he isnt talented, and I have no problem with him in Gensis even after Gabriel left. All Im saying is that his music devolved into nothing but as you put it cheesy ballads. It has nothing to do with becoming AC or whatever. His output just became blah.

Are there any Solo songs you like?

I mean he did have some darker songs like I Don't Care Anymore and I Wish It Would Rain Down. But at other times he was like a male Madonna

I stopped listening to Phil after Invisible Touch. I agree that Mama and In The Air are classic songs and damn good ones but he just got lame.

Timmy84 said:

lazycrockett said:

Dont make me post the Against All Odds Video.

PC has never been known to be a great video artist. Though that video to In the Air Tonight is still edgy despite the year it first aired (to me anyway).

I didn't remember the video, so I went to YouTube to watch it. It is imperative that I report back this comment so it can be recorded on the Intertubes in perpetuity:

"Once, I was at a stop light as I was listening to this song. Drum solo came around and I was beating the shit out of my steering wheel. I realized the window was down and the dude next to me was smiling. We gave each other this incommunicable look. There is a bond between us that will last in our bones long after we're dead."

...

This thread made me pull out some of my Phil Favorites!!! ("It's Gonna Get Better" was already posted, though....)

...

Phil Collins - "Hand in Hand" (1980)

...

...

Genesis -"You Might Recall" (1982)

...

...

Genesis - "Dodo/Lurker" (1981)

...

...

Genesis - "Taking It All too Hard"

...

...

Genesis - "No Reply at All"(1981)

...

...

...

[Edited 12/25/13 4:27am]

lazycrockett said:

The problem with Phil is................he had cred and he started out fine, but as the 80's progressed he just became more and more lame. Hell by the 90s he was doing Disney shit. He just became shtick.

This is the reason.

I don't think too many "rock critics" have a problem with his early solo material. The Genesis records with him as the leader have gotten a positive re-evaluation over the years as well.

I honestly don't know what to think of what his solo output became in the late-80s and why would people still feel a need to listen to those records.

One of the reasons he become "hated" was his marriages and his divorces. They were widely publicized and he was seen both as an user himself and as a rich dumbass that would marry women that wanted him mostly for his money.

lazycrockett said:

I stopped listening to Phil after Invisible Touch. I agree that Mama and In The Air are classic songs and damn good ones but he just got lame.

Yeah, i'm pretty much with you. The direction Phil took after Invisible Touch was far more adult contemporary and less experimental and exciting.

What's even more ironic is Phil has a very WHITE (in regards to pop music) sounding voice ie almost exclusively upper register, a little thin etc.

Whilst I did notice the R&B Tribute album to him years ago until you pointed it out I hadn't realized how many Hip-Hop songs have used samples of his songs. I mean hell, even DMX most hardcore album has song built around a PC song.

MickyDolenz said:

Probably because Phil is considered "adult contemporary/light rock" and rock fans/critics have never really been friendly to AC or "easy listening" acts. They rarely, if at all, put acts like Kenny G, Air Supply, Christopher Cross, Lawrence Welk, Michael Bolton, Barry Manilow, Barbra Striesand, ect. on any best lists. Some light rock performers get jokes made about them like "yacht rock". Some of the so-called "yacht rock" acts recieved R&B airplay as well, like Toto, Player, Ambrosia, Boz Scaggs, Doobie Brothers/Michael McDonald, Dr. Hook, Michael Franks, Bobby Caldwell, Hall & Oates, Steely Dan, and others. Some of the musicians (generally called Westcoast music) played on R&B singers records from the late 1970s/early 1980s, particularly Toto. Session guitarist Jay Graydon was on many of the Westcoast records playing and/or producing. A lot of those acts were not taken seriously by rock critics either. It might be because light rock and AC acts tend to be more popular with women, so it's "soft" and not "macho" like the more blues based rock that tends to get praised. I've noticed that music that has a larger female base is less likely to be praised by rock critics, which are usually male. It's the same with movies - action movies are cool, "chick flicks" are not.

Well put and I agree. Steely Dan is one of the greatest rock bands of all time, and so many of these acts are beloved by black and white audiences alike. I love the term "yacht rock," because it's as deceptively good as many of the artists it refers to.

I think actually many of these artists turned rock and roll back to its black roots. Perhaps that's a problem for some so-called "rock purists" as well.

You can then argue that every ballad ever sung was cheesy, i never really GET these labels, not record labels just the labels people put on stuff. Whether its media created but its dumb, terms like "Progressive Rock" or "Faceless Bands" or "power ballads" etc... its all pretty dumb. Soft rock, hard rock, AC, top40 this and that blah fucking blah.

A band like say "Toto" is dismissed as a AC band or even "Faceless Band" and yet the musicians on that album basically were the reason "Thriller" was "Thriller", since the members of that band played all over it in the studio making it what it was.

The Phil collins thing is pretty dumb, to dismiss this guy is pure insanity, musician wise he is one of the best drummers to ever be, he got dissed but Robert Plant and Jimmy Page back in the LIVE AID days because Plant and page just flat out sucked and Page was high and drooling on himself, but PHIL was the bad guy?

Labels are just plain dumb, sorry but they are, labels are the reason why a band like Chicago is probably never getting into the hall of fame, becuase stupid writers for magazine like Rolling Stone dismiss everything they did from 1980 on as "cheesy". real stupid. Never mind the fact that the greatest guitarist ever was in that band, a guitarist that Hendrix said was GOD, and that could play Prince and Santana into the ground, sorry but truth is truth.

Phil is always going to be disliked because he falls into a category and list that has Barry Manilow and Air Supply and Richard Marx, but guess what these are great artists with a whole lot of talent, and that is the plain truth. Problem is that critics dictate these things, but ask Richard Marx's accountant if he cares about a critic? he still sells, gets played and tours and does new records and has written number ones for everyone under the sun, so labels can go F themselves.

Phil collins gets a "bad rap" cause he replaced Peter Gabriel, well he didnt replace peter, peter left because he had a gigantic ego and he never should have been in a band, always should have been solo, plus i like Peter, but his oddball shit gets played out at times. Phil just stepped in because all the auditions for a singer SUCKED, and Phil was there, he wasnt some new guy plugged in, he played on alot of what people loved early on for that band. And even when Genesis had "hit singles" they were still doing long album cuts like the older days. The Genesis album with "MAMA" is a masterpiece and one of the best things that band ever did, so get off phils back, no one was complaining about his making that band money that was in the band, if it wasnt for him Banks and Rutherford would have faded into oblivion.

lazycrockett said:

Im not saying he isnt talented, and I have no problem with him in Gensis even after Gabriel left. All Im saying is that his music devolved into nothing but as you put it cheesy ballads. It has nothing to do with becoming AC or whatever. His output just became blah.

Well alot of the Genesis "Ballads" were written by all of them not just Phil, he was the voice, but Rutherford and Banks had no issue with collecting the $$ for it. I think also Peter Gabriel has PHIL to thank for the SO record, not taking anything away from Peter but PHIL basically was the reason TV show Miami Vice exploded, i know we may not think that, but that mix of his "Music" and then what was going on gave that show life. And someone like Gabriel benefited when SO came out considering 3 songs from that album were in VICE for god sakes. I think Phil should be thanked for keeping Genesis alive cause it wasnt going anywhere fast.

lastdecember said:

Well alot of the Genesis "Ballads" were written by all of them not just Phil, he was the voice, but Rutherford and Banks had no issue with collecting the $$ for it. I think also Peter Gabriel has PHIL to thank for the SO record, not taking anything away from Peter but PHIL basically was the reason TV show Miami Vice exploded, i know we may not think that, but that mix of his "Music" and then what was going on gave that show life. And someone like Gabriel benefited when SO came out considering 3 songs from that album were in VICE for god sakes. I think Phil should be thanked for keeping Genesis alive cause it wasnt going anywhere fast.

Tony Banks is probably more responsible for Genesis' sound than anyone else. Tony is partly the reason Peter & Steve left the band, as he's a bit controlling & bossy, just like Paul McCartney was in The Beatles later days. Tony & Mike are the only members on all Genesis albums. If Genesis broke up after Peter or Steve left, they probably would be forgotten today mainstream wise or a cult group like their contemporary band Van Der Graaf Generator. They wouldn't be in the Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame either. There might not have been a Mike The Mechanics either.

lastdecember said:

You can then argue that every ballad ever sung was cheesy, i never really GET these labels, not record labels just the labels people put on stuff. Whether its media created but its dumb, terms like "Progressive Rock" or "Faceless Bands" or "power ballads" etc... its all pretty dumb. Soft rock, hard rock, AC, top40 this and that blah fucking blah.

A band like say "Toto" is dismissed as a AC band or even "Faceless Band" and yet the musicians on that album basically were the reason "Thriller" was "Thriller", since the members of that band played all over it in the studio making it what it was.

The Phil collins thing is pretty dumb, to dismiss this guy is pure insanity, musician wise he is one of the best drummers to ever be, he got dissed but Robert Plant and Jimmy Page back in the LIVE AID days because Plant and page just flat out sucked and Page was high and drooling on himself, but PHIL was the bad guy?

Labels are just plain dumb, sorry but they are, labels are the reason why a band like Chicago is probably never getting into the hall of fame, becuase stupid writers for magazine like Rolling Stone dismiss everything they did from 1980 on as "cheesy". real stupid. Never mind the fact that the greatest guitarist ever was in that band, a guitarist that Hendrix said was GOD, and that could play Prince and Santana into the ground, sorry but truth is truth.

Phil is always going to be disliked because he falls into a category and list that has Barry Manilow and Air Supply and Richard Marx, but guess what these are great artists with a whole lot of talent, and that is the plain truth. Problem is that critics dictate these things, but ask Richard Marx's accountant if he cares about a critic? he still sells, gets played and tours and does new records and has written number ones for everyone under the sun, so labels can go F themselves.

Phil collins gets a "bad rap" cause he replaced Peter Gabriel, well he didnt replace peter, peter left because he had a gigantic ego and he never should have been in a band, always should have been solo, plus i like Peter, but his oddball shit gets played out at times. Phil just stepped in because all the auditions for a singer SUCKED, and Phil was there, he wasnt some new guy plugged in, he played on alot of what people loved early on for that band. And even when Genesis had "hit singles" they were still doing long album cuts like the older days. The Genesis album with "MAMA" is a masterpiece and one of the best things that band ever did, so get off phils back, no one was complaining about his making that band money that was in the band, if it wasnt for him Banks and Rutherford would have faded into oblivion.

namepeace said:

I think actually many of these artists turned rock and roll back to its black roots. Perhaps that's a problem for some so-called "rock purists" as well.

I'm not sure that's it. Led Zeppelin copied blues songs and they were popular with rock fans, if not necessarily by critics. Eric Clapton is also blues based. A lot of blues is more guitar oriented than R&B, so it fits with the "guitar hero" ideal in hard rock. Southern Rock has more R&B and jazz influences though, but mixed with country.

MickyDolenz said:

lastdecember said:

Well alot of the Genesis "Ballads" were written by all of them not just Phil, he was the voice, but Rutherford and Banks had no issue with collecting the $$ for it. I think also Peter Gabriel has PHIL to thank for the SO record, not taking anything away from Peter but PHIL basically was the reason TV show Miami Vice exploded, i know we may not think that, but that mix of his "Music" and then what was going on gave that show life. And someone like Gabriel benefited when SO came out considering 3 songs from that album were in VICE for god sakes. I think Phil should be thanked for keeping Genesis alive cause it wasnt going anywhere fast.

Tony Banks is probably more responsible for Genesis' sound than anyone else. Tony is partly the reason Peter & Steve left the band, as he's a bit controlling & bossy, just like Paul McCartney was in The Beatles later days. Tony & Mike are the only members on all Genesis albums. If Genesis broke up after Peter or Steve left, they probably would be forgotten today mainstream wise or a cult group like their contemporary band Van Der Graaf Generator. They wouldn't be in the Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame either. There might not have been a Mike The Mechanics either.

totally true and PHIL was the reason alot of careers were given a big boost, Peter Gabriel also, though he was ok with moderate success early on, he was launched into the stratosphere with SO which had it really not been for PHIL keeping the name Genesis out there and elevating the interest this band would be like YES has been for the last 30 years, playing one long song. So people can tout it as cheesy and yeah theres tons of stuff in that 80's era that is cheesy, shit Prince can bring out cheese more than many note here, but love songs always are cheesy, by nature. To me Lionel Richie cutting ballads with the Commodores and then on his own, i can really see why one gets "praise" and then one gets dissed by the same person, makes no sense, "Three times a lady" and "hello" are just good songs cheesy or not.

from yahoo answers:

I for one love him

[Edited 12/28/13 15:13pm]

paisleypark4 said:

from yahoo answers:

Because he's a bland, schmaltzy, bald sorry excuse for a little man who sings some of the most mind-numbingly saccharin songs ever, in a band that was actually quite good before Peter Gabriel left.

So not only does he suck, but he corrupted the name of a band that didn't previously suck.

2.

Because of all the lame saccharine pop He has put out.

It's a shame because most people don't recognize the fact that He's a kickass drummer. And I think lots of people forget as well what an amazing prog band Genesis was in the 70's.

3.

Phil Collins turned Genesis into a mainstream Billboard top 100 band. He pulled Genesis away from progressive rock and turned it into a mainstream rock band.

4.

Because he sold out and turned into a "chic song" singer!

I for one love him

[Edited 12/28/13 15:13pm]

Actually Phil didnt turn Genesis into anything, he could have left that band as Mike Rutherford and Tony Banks said, when he had some solo success he could have walked easily and probably done even more. I love this Yahoo answers thing, its so way off base, im going to guess that people think PHIL was hired to replace Peter, well actually he stepped in because all the auditions sucked, and Tony liked Phil's voice when he did backing vocals. Truth is Genesis would have died as a progressive rock band, look at Yes they have been singing the same 30 minute songs for eons, after awhile you wanna kill yourself, even Dennis De Young formally of STYX in that bands early days they were "progressive" till he gave them a "hit" then he was cited as being the "weak ballad guy" when the truth was tracks like "renegade" which was Tommy Shaws was never a "rock song" till dennis said it should be. Phil gets a lot of crap for merely stepping into a band that was basically done when ego maniac gabriel left.

paisleypark4 said:

from yahoo answers:

Because he's a bland, schmaltzy, bald sorry excuse for a little man who sings some of the most mind-numbingly saccharin songs ever, in a band that was actually quite good before Peter Gabriel left.

So not only does he suck, but he corrupted the name of a band that didn't previously suck.

2.

Because of all the lame saccharine pop He has put out.

It's a shame because most people don't recognize the fact that He's a kickass drummer. And I think lots of people forget as well what an amazing prog band Genesis was in the 70's.

3.

Phil Collins turned Genesis into a mainstream Billboard top 100 band. He pulled Genesis away from progressive rock and turned it into a mainstream rock band.

4.

Because he sold out and turned into a "chic song" singer!

They talk about Phil being bland, but I guess Mike & The Mechanics and Peter solo is hard rock. These people must have never heard From Genesis To Revelation or their early singles, which are not prog at all, and Phil wasn't in the group yet. They also must have not heard Brand X which is not really mainstream, but a jazz fusion band that's mostly instrumental.

.

I watched a punk rock documentary and it mentioned that punk was a rebellion against hippie music, prog rock, and arena rock. So they must have not thought the Peter Gabriel era Genesis was that cool either. Peter is the one who has refrained from doing Genesis reunions or even performing the material, other than doing new vocals for a Genesis box set and on Carpet Crawlers on a hits compilation. Phil has performed with the tribute band The Musical Box, which does "classic lineup" songs. Phil has also drummed with Black Sabbath, which is not a Top 40 group. Steve Hackett has released 2 albums of re-recorded Genesis songs and recently done a tour performing them.

.

As far as "chick song" singer goes, like I mentioned above, many people think if females like something, then it's no good, and you have to "sell out" to be popular with them. I've never understood this "sell out" or "commercial" thing. If people are only doing music for "art" (whatever that means), then they can do that at home as a hobby and don't need to perform for people or bother trying to get a recording contract. They can perform for free as well. Even street musicians want people to put money in their cup.

MickyDolenz said:

paisleypark4 said:

from yahoo answers:

Because he's a bland, schmaltzy, bald sorry excuse for a little man who sings some of the most mind-numbingly saccharin songs ever, in a band that was actually quite good before Peter Gabriel left.

So not only does he suck, but he corrupted the name of a band that didn't previously suck.

2.

Because of all the lame saccharine pop He has put out.

It's a shame because most people don't recognize the fact that He's a kickass drummer. And I think lots of people forget as well what an amazing prog band Genesis was in the 70's.

3.

Phil Collins turned Genesis into a mainstream Billboard top 100 band. He pulled Genesis away from progressive rock and turned it into a mainstream rock band.

4.

Because he sold out and turned into a "chic song" singer!

They talk about Phil being bland, but I guess Mike & The Mechanics and Peter solo is hard rock. These people must have never heard From Genesis To Revelation or their early singles, which are not prog at all, and Phil wasn't in the group yet. They also must have not heard Brand X which is not really mainstream, but a jazz fusion band that's mostly instrumental.

.

I watched a punk rock documentary and it mentioned that punk was a rebellion against hippie music, prog rock, and arena rock. So they must have not thought the Peter Gabriel era Genesis was that cool either. Peter is the one who has refrained from doing Genesis reunions or even performing the material, other than doing new vocals for a Genesis box set and on Carpet Crawlers on a hits compilation. Phil has performed with the tribute band The Musical Box, which does "classic lineup" songs. Phil has also drummed with Black Sabbath, which is not a Top 40 group. Steve Hackett has released 2 albums of re-recorded Genesis songs and recently done a tour performing them.

.

As far as "chick song" singer goes, like I mentioned above, many people think if females like something, then it's no good, and you have to "sell out" to be popular with them. I've never understood this "sell out" or "commercial" thing. If people are only doing music for "art" (whatever that means), then they can do that at home as a hobby and don't need to perform for people or bother trying to get a recording contract. They can perform for free as well. Even street musicians want people to put money in their cup.

YES! Those early Gensis singles were hella lite pop fair. But, no one mentions them

Also, Mike and Tony went along with it. They said they never once were doing something they hated. Yet, they get no blame on them. While they alsos did the poppy Mike & The Mechanics.

So by Gabriel i love! but Big Time is obviously a very poppy song. As is In Your Eyes. Maybe cause Phil had more ballads he was seen a lightweight.

Phil also drummed for Tears for Fears! i liked his work there.

Gunsnhalen said:

MickyDolenz said:

They talk about Phil being bland, but I guess Mike & The Mechanics and Peter solo is hard rock. These people must have never heard From Genesis To Revelation or their early singles, which are not prog at all, and Phil wasn't in the group yet. They also must have not heard Brand X which is not really mainstream, but a jazz fusion band that's mostly instrumental.

.

I watched a punk rock documentary and it mentioned that punk was a rebellion against hippie music, prog rock, and arena rock. So they must have not thought the Peter Gabriel era Genesis was that cool either. Peter is the one who has refrained from doing Genesis reunions or even performing the material, other than doing new vocals for a Genesis box set and on Carpet Crawlers on a hits compilation. Phil has performed with the tribute band The Musical Box, which does "classic lineup" songs. Phil has also drummed with Black Sabbath, which is not a Top 40 group. Steve Hackett has released 2 albums of re-recorded Genesis songs and recently done a tour performing them.

.

As far as "chick song" singer goes, like I mentioned above, many people think if females like something, then it's no good, and you have to "sell out" to be popular with them. I've never understood this "sell out" or "commercial" thing. If people are only doing music for "art" (whatever that means), then they can do that at home as a hobby and don't need to perform for people or bother trying to get a recording contract. They can perform for free as well. Even street musicians want people to put money in their cup.

YES! Those early Gensis singles were hella lite pop fair. But, no one mentions them

Also, Mike and Tony went along with it. They said they never once were doing something they hated. Yet, they get no blame on them. While they alsos did the poppy Mike & The Mechanics.

So by Gabriel i love! but Big Time is obviously a very poppy song. As is In Your Eyes. Maybe cause Phil had more ballads he was seen a lightweight.

Phil also drummed for Tears for Fears! i liked his work there.

Well lets remember back in the day the record label was really pushing Peter to make an accessible album. Hell they made him name it.

MickyDolenz said:

paisleypark4 said:

from yahoo answers:

Because he's a bland, schmaltzy, bald sorry excuse for a little man who sings some of the most mind-numbingly saccharin songs ever, in a band that was actually quite good before Peter Gabriel left.

So not only does he suck, but he corrupted the name of a band that didn't previously suck.

2.

Because of all the lame saccharine pop He has put out.

It's a shame because most people don't recognize the fact that He's a kickass drummer. And I think lots of people forget as well what an amazing prog band Genesis was in the 70's.

3.

Phil Collins turned Genesis into a mainstream Billboard top 100 band. He pulled Genesis away from progressive rock and turned it into a mainstream rock band.

4.

Because he sold out and turned into a "chic song" singer!

They talk about Phil being bland, but I guess Mike & The Mechanics and Peter solo is hard rock. These people must have never heard From Genesis To Revelation or their early singles, which are not prog at all, and Phil wasn't in the group yet. They also must have not heard Brand X which is not really mainstream, but a jazz fusion band that's mostly instrumental.

.

I watched a punk rock documentary and it mentioned that punk was a rebellion against hippie music, prog rock, and arena rock. So they must have not thought the Peter Gabriel era Genesis was that cool either. Peter is the one who has refrained from doing Genesis reunions or even performing the material, other than doing new vocals for a Genesis box set and on Carpet Crawlers on a hits compilation. Phil has performed with the tribute band The Musical Box, which does "classic lineup" songs. Phil has also drummed with Black Sabbath, which is not a Top 40 group. Steve Hackett has released 2 albums of re-recorded Genesis songs and recently done a tour performing them.

.

As far as "chick song" singer goes, like I mentioned above, many people think if females like something, then it's no good, and you have to "sell out" to be popular with them. I've never understood this "sell out" or "commercial" thing. If people are only doing music for "art" (whatever that means), then they can do that at home as a hobby and don't need to perform for people or bother trying to get a recording contract. They can perform for free as well. Even street musicians want people to put money in their cup.

It's funny. People love doing revisionist history on Genesis but their early recordings were just as pop-friendly as the records they claimed Phil-era Genesis recordings were (but I think Phil was edgier than giving credit). Genesis was not actually considered "cool" or "hip" during Peter Gabriel's tenure with them. In fact they had to compete with Todd Rundgren for space since he had the better produced shows while Peter struggled to perform wearing bizarre clothing. Phil's drumming probably kept fans coming. When Phil was coming up, it was usually rock based stuff. Brand X was a fusion group. Genesis, before Phil, was not exactly winning their label over. When Phil joined, he brought something to Genesis that they had lacked: a diverse drummer (and later a diverse singer-songwriter). With Peter, they might've had the "show", but with Phil, they had the classics, and then Mike Rutherford and Tony Banks added their own creative touches (matter of fact one of my all time favorite non-Phil written Genesis songs is "Man of Our Times" from Duke). I love the ones where Phil, Mike & Tony wrote all the songs together. Whereas with Peter, it was almost a guilty pleasure. Plus Phil just has a more melodic voice than Peter. Peter IMHO didn't find his edge until after he left Genesis. Phil almost never wanted to do a solo career, it happened almost by accident. He couldn't help it if people were buying his stuff and also in the time period he released them, to single him out as bland is ridiculous. The same thing with Lionel Richie and Tina Turner in a sense.