HuMpThAnG said:

mrsnet said:

ya kno they inflate Elvis sales so it's laughable. I mean Elvis Presley has NOT sold a billion records. They inflate his and deflates Michael's. Yeah I said it. Big time racism in the music industry. Believe that.

I've always been suspious of that

no need to be suspicious...it's called inventory...

mrsnet said:

lazycrockett said:

I would venture to say that The Beatles have sold so much cause they have probably the most diverse musical careers in history. Everyone likes something that the beatles did. Their evolution is unparalleled.

When you say the most 'diverse' music careers in history I'm puzzled. Certainly their musical career/appeal was/is not more diverse than MJ as is no one's. That was part of MJ's genius that he/his music appealed to EVERY race, ethnicity, age, sex,culture WORLDWIDE (Africa, N.Amer, S. Amer,Asia,etc). No one has surpassed MJ is this area. The Beatles audience has been mostly adult Whites in Europe and America. During their peak it was mostly white teenage girls. MJ/his music appealed to EVERYONE from 2 to 92 worldwide. Can't say that about the Beatles. You said everyone likes something the Beatles did.. well everyone likes a lot of what MJ did from the time he was a little boy.

I agree with most if what u say about MJ...he appealed to everyone that is a fact....but musically it is a different story... MJ music style was that of a boy band early on...sorry but that is fact...when he went solo his music style didnt change that much..to the point it became boring and predicatble... He really sold himself short by waiting so long between albums and what we were last left with was "invincible"...which sucked..sorry...the beatles last album is a musical masterpiece...that's what they left us with

The Beatles early music was very "campy", but thier style evolved and became grounding braking... Now remember the Beatles career was active only 5 years and thier accompishments were outstanding...MJ had almost a 40yr career... Now the truth of the matter is MJ's trials/allegations hurt his career tremendously, whether he was guilty and innocent and people didnt really care about MJ until he died...

The Beatles mainly John and Paul were better song writers than MJ...that is fact....

MJ was by far the best enterainer on the history of show business...hands down.

[Edited 4/14/13 18:13pm]

TonyVanDam said:

Let do the infamous prince.org class of black act & while counterparts.

Little Richard = Jerry Lee Lewis (more so than Elvis)

The Jackson Five/The Jacksons = The Osmonds

New Edition = New Kids On The Block

RUN DMC = The Beastie Boys

MC Hammer = Vanilla Ice

Usher = Justin Timberlake

Blues = Country

Funk = Metal (?!?)

Jazz = Classical (OK, I'm being silly on THIS one!)

House, Electro, Techno, & Breakbeat = Trance

Notice who was 1st in each most of the time?

To my knowledge Rihanna is a singles artist. She can have hit songs but has trouble selling her albums. People don't notice because she keeps releasing new material.

Beyonce I think doesn't sell as well as her white peers internationally. It would make sense since some of her songs have that urban sound which won't appeal to everyone.

Graycap23 said:

TonyVanDam said:

Let do the infamous prince.org class of black act & while counterparts.

Little Richard = Jerry Lee Lewis (more so than Elvis)

The Jackson Five/The Jacksons = The Osmonds

New Edition = New Kids On The Block

RUN DMC = The Beastie Boys

MC Hammer = Vanilla Ice

Usher = Justin Timberlake

Blues = Country

Funk = Metal (?!?)

Jazz = Classical (OK, I'm being silly on THIS one!)

House, Electro, Techno, & Breakbeat = Trance

Notice who was 1st in each most of the time?

-

For one thing I'm aware of, spacey Maurice Starr promoted NE & NKOTB for a number of their upfollowing releases, tours, etc.

-

TonyVanDam said: House, Electro, Techno, & Breakbeat = Trance

-

I've always approached these styles in general lines as follows:

-

Disco-influenced and soulful house has pioneers, representers, etc such as the House Sound Of Chicago, Frankie Knuckles, Masters At Work, and much others.

Disco heavy weights who can be viewed as inspirators for House: the late DJ Larry Levan from The Paradise Garage, DJ Nicky Siano from The Gallery, etc.

-

Electro's Afrika Bambaata & The Soul Sonic Force, Maurice Starr, Michael Jonzun & The Jonzun Crew, Planet Patrol, Warp 9 and more artists from this era created strong work which additionally was inspired by Kraftwerk.

-

Breakbeat has (especially in West London of the UK) a mix of all sorts of heritages such as Izzi Dunn, Nathan Haines and more working together with Afronaught, Dego,

I.G. Culture, Kaidi Tatham, Neon Phusion, New Sector Movements, Reel People, Vanessa Freeman, etc. Bugz In The Attic is a mixed roots of talents as well.

-

Although i'm not following Techno and Trance very closely, I always felt that both directions contain resembling sounds here and there in their beats?

Correct me if I'm way off with that view.

[Edited 4/15/13 9:48am]

avasdad said:

HuMpThAnG said:

I've always been suspious of that

no need to be suspicious...it's called inventory...

Or corruption

avasdad said:

mrsnet said:

When you say the most 'diverse' music careers in history I'm puzzled. Certainly their musical career/appeal was/is not more diverse than MJ as is no one's. That was part of MJ's genius that he/his music appealed to EVERY race, ethnicity, age, sex,culture WORLDWIDE (Africa, N.Amer, S. Amer,Asia,etc). No one has surpassed MJ is this area. The Beatles audience has been mostly adult Whites in Europe and America. During their peak it was mostly white teenage girls. MJ/his music appealed to EVERYONE from 2 to 92 worldwide. Can't say that about the Beatles. You said everyone likes something the Beatles did.. well everyone likes a lot of what MJ did from the time he was a little boy.

I agree with most if what u say about MJ...he appealed to everyone that is a fact....but musically it is a different story... MJ music style was that of a boy band early on...sorry but that is fact...when he went solo his music style didnt change that much..to the point it became boring and predicatble... He really sold himself short by waiting so long between albums and what we were last left with was "invincible"...which sucked..sorry...the beatles last album is a musical masterpiece...that's what they left us with

The Beatles early music was very "campy", but thier style evolved and became grounding braking... Now remember the Beatles career was active only 5 years and thier accompishments were outstanding...MJ had almost a 40yr career... Now the truth of the matter is MJ's trials/allegations hurt his career tremendously, whether he was guilty and innocent and people didnt really care about MJ until he died...

The Beatles mainly John and Paul were better song writers than MJ...that is fact....

MJ was by far the best enterainer on the history of show business...hands down.

[Edited 4/14/13 18:13pm]

I put your 'that is fact' comments in bold because it's hilarious that you feel YOUR opinion is FACT lol. Based on what? who are you? What is fact is a larger percentage of the world's people have owned more MJ's music than the Beatles, because his MUSIC appeals to EVERY culture, etnicity. MJ"S MUSIC appeals to EVERYONE whereas the Beatle's MUSIC appeals mostly to the world's white population.

'What we're left with?' what? We're left with his whole body of work. His music didn't evolve? smh MJ's albums are classics.

People didn't care about him until he died is why he sold out 50 shows; why his back catalog outsold his peers (Prince, Madonna, Whitney) 3 to 1 the entire decade before he passed; why thousands of people ascended on Santa barbara court house for his trial. And there is footage of people running behind his car hollering Michael! Michael! like it was 1988. When in actuality, it was 2 weeks before he passed . Go educate yourself before you comment on 'what is fact' please, smh.

[Edited 4/15/13 13:01pm]

[Edited 4/15/13 13:11pm]

people didnt really care about MJ until he died

Sorry but this is preposterous.

Michael Jackson was the most popular entertainer in the world when he died.

Maybe that applies to someone like Van Gogh or Mozart who died in poverty.

bobzilla77 said:

people didnt really care about MJ until he died

Sorry but this is preposterous.

Michael Jackson was the most popular entertainer in the world when he died.

Maybe that applies to someone like Van Gogh or Mozart who died in poverty.

really??? how much music did mj sell between 2001 and 2009??

proof is in the pudding my friend....checkmate.

The three best-selling albums in the United States last week were all by Mr. Jackson: “Number Ones” sold 108,000 copies; “The Essential Michael Jackson” sold 102,000; and “Thriller” sold 101,000, according to Nielsen SoundScan. In total, 422,000 copies of Mr. Jackson’s albums were sold in the week that ended on Sunday —more than 40 times the previous week’s figure — as fans snapped up everything in sight.

Many retail stores reportedly ran out of stock over the weekend, which might have contributed to Mr. Jackson’s remarkable sales tally online: 57 percent of his album sales were digital downloads, and 2.3 million downloads of single tracks were sold, separate from album sales. In the five years that SoundScan has tracked downloads, no artist has sold more than 1 million tracks in one week. Last year Mr. Jackson sold a total of 2.8 million tracks.

Because of Billboard’s chart rules, though, Mr. Jackson’s albums do not qualify for the Billboard 200, its standard albums chart, since they were all released more than 18 months ago. Instead Mr. Jackson will occupy the top nine spots on the catalog chart, as a solo artist or with the Jackson 5. (Mr. Jackson’s music is released by Epic/Legacy, a division of Sony; Jackson 5 albums are released by Motown.)

mrsnet said:

avasdad said:

I agree with most if what u say about MJ...he appealed to everyone that is a fact....but musically it is a different story... MJ music style was that of a boy band early on...sorry but that is fact...when he went solo his music style didnt change that much..to the point it became boring and predicatble... He really sold himself short by waiting so long between albums and what we were last left with was "invincible"...which sucked..sorry...the beatles last album is a musical masterpiece...that's what they left us with

The Beatles early music was very "campy", but thier style evolved and became grounding braking... Now remember the Beatles career was active only 5 years and thier accompishments were outstanding...MJ had almost a 40yr career... Now the truth of the matter is MJ's trials/allegations hurt his career tremendously, whether he was guilty and innocent and people didnt really care about MJ until he died...

The Beatles mainly John and Paul were better song writers than MJ...that is fact....

MJ was by far the best enterainer on the history of show business...hands down.

[Edited 4/14/13 18:13pm]

I put your 'that is fact' comments in bold because it's hilarious that you feel YOUR opinion is FACT lol. Based on what? who are you? What is fact is a larger percentage of the world's people have owned more MJ's music than the Beatles, because his MUSIC appeals to EVERY culture, etnicity. MJ"S MUSIC appeals to EVERYONE whereas the Beatle's MUSIC appeals mostly to the world's white population.

'What we're left with?' what? We're left with his whole body of work. His music didn't evolve? smh MJ's albums are classics.

People didn't care about him until he died is why he sold out 50 shows; why his back catalog outsold his peers (Prince, Madonna, Whitney) 3 to 1 the entire decade before he passed; why thousands of people ascended on Santa barbara court house for his trial. And there is footage of people running behind his car hollering Michael! Michael! like it was 1988. When in actuality, it was 2 weeks before he passed . Go educate yourself before you comment on 'what is fact' please, smh.

[Edited 4/15/13 13:01pm]

[Edited 4/15/13 13:11pm]

are you from this planet?!?! People didn't care about him until he died is why he sold out 50 shows He sold out 50 shows because he was STILL ALIVE!!!

He sold out more than Prince, Madonna and Whitney because HE DIED!! Prince wasnt releasing music mainstream, Madonna's music sucks! and Whitney was "cracked" out...

His music style STAYED the same...played it safe and it worked for him...

you are missing the point here...MJ is/will be the greatest entertainer in the history of music.

MJ was a good song writer...no question. BUT Lennon/McCartney song writing team has more hits and is covered by more artists than MJ...

10 of the Most-Covered Songs Ever

1. "Yesterday," (written by Lennon and McCartney) The Beatles. It has been covered more than 3,000 times, including by Joan Baez, Liberace, Sinatra, Elvis, Daffy Duck, En Vogue and Boyz II Men.

2. "Eleanor Rigby," (written by Lennon and McCartney) The Beatles. It’s been covered 131 times by artists such as Ray Charles, Tony Bennett, Aretha, Kansas and Swedish industrial metal band Pain.

3. "Cry Me a River," (written by Arthur Hamilton) First perfromed in by Julie London. This jazzy number from 1955 has been covered by a huge range of people including Barbra Streisand, Joe Cocker, Aerosmith, Rick Astley, Bjork, Merle Haggard and Olivia Newton John.

4. "And I Love Her," (written by Lennon and McCartney) The Beatles. Covered by Bob Marley, Smokey Robinson, Sarah Vaughan, Barry Manilow and Vince Gill, among numerous others.

5. "(I Can’t Get No) Satisfaction," (written by Mick Jagger) The Rolling Stones. Covered by Britney Spears, Jimi Hendrix, Cat Power and Vanilla Ice.

6. "Imagine," (written by John Lennon) John Lennon. Joan Baez’s cover of this is no surprise, nor is Ray Charles or Elton Johns. Some more unconventional versions have been done by Avril Lavigne, Dolly Parton and Queen.

7. "Summertime," (written by George Gershwin) First performed by Abbie Mitchell. She’s the one who originally sang it in the 1935 George Gershwin opera Porgy and Bess. The Janis Joplin cover is probably the most well-known, but Sonny and Cher did a version as well, and so did R.E.M.

8. "Blackbird," (written by Lennon and McCartney) The Beatles. Also performed by Dave Grohl, Phish, Bobby McFerrin, Eddie Vedder and Elliott Smith.

9. "Over the Rainbow," (written by Harold Arlen) First performed by Judy Garland in "The Wizard Of Oz." Cover versions include Willie Nelson, Patti LaBelle, Eva Cassidy, Eric Clapton, Chet Atkins, Tori Amos and Israel Kamakawiwo’ole. That last version is the Hawaiian rendition that’s mixed with "What A Wonderful World" that has gotten a lot of play in the last few years.

10. "The Look of Love," (written by Burt Bacharach) First performed by Dusty Springfield. Covered by The Zombies, Diana Ross, Gladys Knight, Nina Simone, Marvin Gaye, Shirley Bassey and Diana Krall.

avasdad said:

bobzilla77 said:

Sorry but this is preposterous.

Michael Jackson was the most popular entertainer in the world when he died.

Maybe that applies to someone like Van Gogh or Mozart who died in poverty.

really??? how much music did mj sell between 2001 and 2009??

proof is in the pudding my friend....checkmate.

The three best-selling albums in the United States last week were all by Mr. Jackson: “Number Ones” sold 108,000 copies; “The Essential Michael Jackson” sold 102,000; and “Thriller” sold 101,000, according to Nielsen SoundScan. In total, 422,000 copies of Mr. Jackson’s albums were sold in the week that ended on Sunday —more than 40 times the previous week’s figure — as fans snapped up everything in sight.

Many retail stores reportedly ran out of stock over the weekend, which might have contributed to Mr. Jackson’s remarkable sales tally online: 57 percent of his album sales were digital downloads, and 2.3 million downloads of single tracks were sold, separate from album sales. In the five years that SoundScan has tracked downloads, no artist has sold more than 1 million tracks in one week. Last year Mr. Jackson sold a total of 2.8 million tracks.

Because of Billboard’s chart rules, though, Mr. Jackson’s albums do not qualify for the Billboard 200, its standard albums chart, since they were all released more than 18 months ago. Instead Mr. Jackson will occupy the top nine spots on the catalog chart, as a solo artist or with the Jackson 5. (Mr. Jackson’s music is released by Epic/Legacy, a division of Sony; Jackson 5 albums are released by Motown.)

I don't have sales stats handy like you but I would wager that the total number of albums MJ sold from 1970-2008 is more than he's sold since 2009.

I think people kinda forgot about him and took him for granted for a few years there while he wasn;t doing anything. But to say "people didn't care" about him until 2009? That's not correct.

bobzilla77 said:

avasdad said:

really??? how much music did mj sell between 2001 and 2009??

proof is in the pudding my friend....checkmate.

The three best-selling albums in the United States last week were all by Mr. Jackson: “Number Ones” sold 108,000 copies; “The Essential Michael Jackson” sold 102,000; and “Thriller” sold 101,000, according to Nielsen SoundScan. In total, 422,000 copies of Mr. Jackson’s albums were sold in the week that ended on Sunday —more than 40 times the previous week’s figure — as fans snapped up everything in sight.

Many retail stores reportedly ran out of stock over the weekend, which might have contributed to Mr. Jackson’s remarkable sales tally online: 57 percent of his album sales were digital downloads, and 2.3 million downloads of single tracks were sold, separate from album sales. In the five years that SoundScan has tracked downloads, no artist has sold more than 1 million tracks in one week. Last year Mr. Jackson sold a total of 2.8 million tracks.

Because of Billboard’s chart rules, though, Mr. Jackson’s albums do not qualify for the Billboard 200, its standard albums chart, since they were all released more than 18 months ago. Instead Mr. Jackson will occupy the top nine spots on the catalog chart, as a solo artist or with the Jackson 5. (Mr. Jackson’s music is released by Epic/Legacy, a division of Sony; Jackson 5 albums are released by Motown.)

I don't have sales stats handy like you but I would wager that the total number of albums MJ sold from 1970-2008 is more than he's sold since 2009.

I think people kinda forgot about him and took him for granted for a few years there while he wasn;t doing anything. But to say "people didn't care" about him until 2009? That's not correct.

no doubt...the truth is MJ's musical output was not very strong with regards to releasing material...since 1992 he released 2 full studio albums and his last was a dud...his trial also didnt help... again my point is MJ is a musical icon...the beatles however were better musicians and songwriters...

Graycap23 said:

TonyVanDam said:

Let do the infamous prince.org class of black act & while counterparts.

Little Richard = Jerry Lee Lewis (more so than Elvis)

The Jackson Five/The Jacksons = The Osmonds

New Edition = New Kids On The Block

RUN DMC = The Beastie Boys

MC Hammer = Vanilla Ice

Usher = Justin Timberlake

Blues = Country

Funk = Metal (?!?)

Jazz = Classical (OK, I'm being silly on THIS one!)

House, Electro, Techno, & Breakbeat = Trance

Notice who was 1st in each most of the time?

Exactly.

I'm going to say this once and I hope I never have to say it again on this board. Unless you are a visible minority, you are NOBODY to say shit about racism being non existent anymore, in or out of the music industry.

BlaqueKnight said:

The real differences come in when its time to get that money. Most of the BIG bosses in music are old white guys. Yeah, you can name Diddy, L.A. Reid and a couple of others but those guys are mid-level to upper mid-level players and are just tokens put in place to keep up appearances. None are on Sumner Redstone's level or people of his ilk. They are all older white males and most are Jewish.

Oviously racism still exists.

However it's ironic that in a thread about racism/prejudice you feel the need to point out people's religion. Esp considering that ant-Semitism also still exists, and the "Jews control XXXX" has historically been part of institutionalized anti-Jewish hatred/oppression.

Carry on.

avasdad said:

bobzilla77 said:

Sorry but this is preposterous.

Michael Jackson was the most popular entertainer in the world when he died.

Maybe that applies to someone like Van Gogh or Mozart who died in poverty.

really??? how much music did mj sell between 2001 and 2009??

proof is in the pudding my friend....checkmate.

The three best-selling albums in the United States last week were all by Mr. Jackson: “Number Ones” sold 108,000 copies; “The Essential Michael Jackson” sold 102,000; and “Thriller” sold 101,000, according to Nielsen SoundScan. In total, 422,000 copies of Mr. Jackson’s albums were sold in the week that ended on Sunday —more than 40 times the previous week’s figure — as fans snapped up everything in sight.

Many retail stores reportedly ran out of stock over the weekend, which might have contributed to Mr. Jackson’s remarkable sales tally online: 57 percent of his album sales were digital downloads, and 2.3 million downloads of single tracks were sold, separate from album sales. In the five years that SoundScan has tracked downloads, no artist has sold more than 1 million tracks in one week. Last year Mr. Jackson sold a total of 2.8 million tracks.

Because of Billboard’s chart rules, though, Mr. Jackson’s albums do not qualify for the Billboard 200, its standard albums chart, since they were all released more than 18 months ago. Instead Mr. Jackson will occupy the top nine spots on the catalog chart, as a solo artist or with the Jackson 5. (Mr. Jackson’s music is released by Epic/Legacy, a division of Sony; Jackson 5 albums are released by Motown.)

Let me just say I agree with you when you say Michael's style of music stayed relatively the same throughout the years compared to Lennon's or Prince's music, Michael always saw himself more of an entertainer than a musician anyway.

But it's not quite fair to judge his popularity based on how many albums he sold between 2001 and 2009 because well he only released one studio album(which sold more than 10 million copies btw). There was simply no one bigger than him in terms of celebrity status even before he died. Of course there are always seasonal "big" celebs like Miley Katy Perry The American Idol winner or whoever is hot at the moment but they always come and go while MJ remained a mega star all his life despite the trial, despite the jokes and despite all the crazy rumors around him. Proof? He got a live coverage from CNN just for a freaking press conference where he simply announced he was gonna do some shows at O2. He sold out 50 O2 shows less than an hour. If people really hand't cared about him as an entertainer anymore he wouldn't have gotten this much attention when he was alive.

I mean I have NEVER seen anyone getting mobbed like this. At 50 years old. FIFTY MAN!!!

Oh and @ whoever said something about Elvis and MJ here's your answer: MJ > Elvis = Fact.

avasdad said:

bobzilla77 said:

Sorry but this is preposterous.

Michael Jackson was the most popular entertainer in the world when he died.

Maybe that applies to someone like Van Gogh or Mozart who died in poverty.

really??? how much music did mj sell between 2001 and 2009??

proof is in the pudding my friend....checkmate.

The three best-selling albums in the United States last week were all by Mr. Jackson: “Number Ones” sold 108,000 copies; “The Essential Michael Jackson” sold 102,000; and “Thriller” sold 101,000, according to Nielsen SoundScan. In total, 422,000 copies of Mr. Jackson’s albums were sold in the week that ended on Sunday —more than 40 times the previous week’s figure — as fans snapped up everything in sight.

Many retail stores reportedly ran out of stock over the weekend, which might have contributed to Mr. Jackson’s remarkable sales tally online: 57 percent of his album sales were digital downloads, and 2.3 million downloads of single tracks were sold, separate from album sales. In the five years that SoundScan has tracked downloads, no artist has sold more than 1 million tracks in one week. Last year Mr. Jackson sold a total of 2.8 million tracks.

Because of Billboard’s chart rules, though, Mr. Jackson’s albums do not qualify for the Billboard 200, its standard albums chart, since they were all released more than 18 months ago. Instead Mr. Jackson will occupy the top nine spots on the catalog chart, as a solo artist or with the Jackson 5. (Mr. Jackson’s music is released by Epic/Legacy, a division of Sony; Jackson 5 albums are released by Motown.)

Michaels sale between 2001-2009 all added up to about 20 million. This includes: Invincible (8-10 million) Number ones (6-7 million) The Ultimate Collection (3 million) Thriller25 (3 million)-- These are rough estimates

This was BEFORE he passed.

The man sold out 50 fuckin Arena shows FIFTY.... NOBODY can AND could do that but him.

[Edited 4/15/13 20:37pm]

[Edited 4/15/13 23:18pm]

Michael Jackson is the greatest of all time - FACT.. Elvis and the Beatles are great too, but not on MJ's level

[Edited 4/16/13 13:12pm]

JasonWill1980 said:

Michael Jackson is the greatest of all time - FACT.. Elvis and the Beatles are great too, but not on MJ's level

[Edited 4/16/13 13:12pm]

MJ = greatest entertainer of all time (beatles were not known for their live performances)

Beatles were better musicans and songwriters than MJ....

BlaqueKnight said:

We can go back and forth on artists all day long. The real differences are behind the scenes, where the average person does not venture.

The real differences come in when its time to get that money. Most of the BIG bosses in music are old white guys. Yeah, you can name Diddy, L.A. Reid and a couple of others but those guys are mid-level to upper mid-level players and are just tokens put in place to keep up appearances. None are on Sumner Redstone's level or people of his ilk. They are all older white males and most are Jewish.
Everyone in the industry knows there is a club and everyone knows who's in it. People in the industry know who signs the checks and they know who not to piss off.
In the promotions game, if you are black, you are not allowed access to rock or pop shows. Promoters will promote ANYONE WHO WILL BRING IN REVENUE. Its not that black promoters don't want to promote white artists; THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO.
William Morris is big business and big business is white privileged. If a black promoter tried to promote Timberlake or Pink or Taylor Swift, they would not be allowed to., even if everything else was already in place (venue, etc.)
If a white promoter wanted to promote any black artist or artist of color, they are allowed full access. The promotions game is the legwork of the music industry and is still almost as racist as it was in the 60s. It still operates the same way because there is no checks and balances system in the promotions game.
Almost all of the equipment rental businesses are white owned. If you book a venue, you have to also rent the sound system if the venue does not have its own available for rent.

The black-owned rental businesses usually rent to very small venue-.
So, yeah you can be a black artist because they have your ass under contract nd you are an indentured servant. 360 deals are as common as sub prime loans for black artists. You can create the music, produce other artists, mix the music (although most studio owners are also white) and you can operate in limited capacities in other aspects of the game. Make no mistake, there IS white privilege and even racism in the music biz. The faces on the outside don't reflect the faces on the inside.

And there it is.

[Edited 4/16/13 20:08pm]

Gunsnhalen said:

As said it is a sad thing but white privilege still exists througout the world and being a white straight male yes you do have it a lot easier than most people.

Don't leave out White Gay Men. They don't LOSE their "White Majority card" because they're Gay. When a Black person walks in the room nobody cares who he's sleeping with the FIRST thing we're judged on is our Skin Color. Racism is a Centuries old stain in America not homophobia.

White Gay Men don't walk around with the word GAY Tattooed on their Forehead. They can enjoy White Privilege just as any White Straight Guy.

White Gay Men are NOT the New Black.

Whitney Houston best selling artist of all time??/?

I'd say a better example would be Chuck Berry being mildly financially secure in the 70's and playing smaller venues while Elvis was fabulously rich and selling out Vegas.

Not exactly current but still a better example.

mjscarousal said:

kitbradley said:

Many times, it has to do with the packaging of an artist, too. Beyonce and Rhianna do not look like the "average" black woman. I have heard black artists say in the past if people outside of your black audience are more comfortable with your image, you are likely to see more crossover success.

Completely disagree and Rihanna is not African American.

I do agree they have the cross overlook: European features and lightbrown skin.

They have a "package image" which doesnt just end with "looks" but Ive seen plenty of black girls who look like Beyonce and alot that look better. Yes she is attractive but yall really overrate her looks like she is Elizabeth Taylor Her marketing/backing is why she is popular and has lasted as long as she has. She overexposes herself because trust and believe nobody cares about her. She has peaked.

Tamia, Mya, Ameria, Monica, Esperaza ETC are all attractive African American women BUT dont have the same marketing and dont make the same lack luster pop music. People kill me with making it seem like Beyonces look is "rare" when most of her attractiveness has to do with her intensive weave and makeup.

She is apart of a machine and has a corporate backing, that is why she is constantly in our faces.

[Edited 4/12/13 14:46pm]

I never said Rhianna is "African-American". I said she is black, which she is. There are other blacks besides African-Americans.

And as far as someone making the statement about Ledesi and Anthony Hamilton making the same type of music as Adele and not receiving the same fanfare, again, I think much of it has to do with their look. Non-black audiences may not be a comfortable with Ledesi's and Anthony's more traditional looks. It doesn't matter how well you can sing. No one really cares about vocal talent anymore. In today's industry, it's all about the total (visual) package. Ledisi and Anthony are not as visually appealing. And, unless you are a rapper, that visual aspect has to be there in order to have a chance for crossover success.

[Edited 4/17/13 9:15am]

Chancellor said:

Gunsnhalen said:

As said it is a sad thing but white privilege still exists througout the world and being a white straight male yes you do have it a lot easier than most people.

Don't leave out White Gay Men. They don't LOSE their "White Majority card" because they're Gay. When a Black person walks in the room nobody cares who he's sleeping with the FIRST thing we're judged on is our Skin Color. Racism is a Centuries old stain in America not homophobia.

White Gay Men don't walk around with the word GAY Tattooed on their Forehead. They can enjoy White Privilege just as any White Straight Guy.

White Gay Men are NOT the New Black.

And there it is

BlaqueKnight said:

We can go back and forth on artists all day long. The real differences are behind the scenes, where the average person does not venture.

The real differences come in when its time to get that money. Most of the BIG bosses in music are old white guys. Yeah, you can name Diddy, L.A. Reid and a couple of others but those guys are mid-level to upper mid-level players and are just tokens put in place to keep up appearances. None are on Sumner Redstone's level or people of his ilk. They are all older white males and most are Jewish.
Everyone in the industry knows there is a club and everyone knows who's in it. People in the industry know who signs the checks and they know who not to piss off.
In the promotions game, if you are black, you are not allowed access to rock or pop shows. Promoters will promote ANYONE WHO WILL BRING IN REVENUE. Its not that black promoters don't want to promote white artists; THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO.
William Morris is big business and big business is white privileged. If a black promoter tried to promote Timberlake or Pink or Taylor Swift, they would not be allowed to., even if everything else was already in place (venue, etc.)
If a white promoter wanted to promote any black artist or artist of color, they are allowed full access. The promotions game is the legwork of the music industry and is still almost as racist as it was in the 60s. It still operates the same way because there is no checks and balances system in the promotions game.
Almost all of the equipment rental businesses are white owned. If you book a venue, you have to also rent the sound system if the venue does not have its own available for rent.

The black-owned rental businesses usually rent to very small venue-.
So, yeah you can be a black artist because they have your ass under contract nd you are an indentured servant. 360 deals are as common as sub prime loans for black artists. You can create the music, produce other artists, mix the music (although most studio owners are also white) and you can operate in limited capacities in other aspects of the game. Make no mistake, there IS white privilege and even racism in the music biz. The faces on the outside don't reflect the faces on the inside.

BlaqueKnight said:

We can go back and forth on artists all day long. The real differences are behind the scenes, where the average person does not venture.

The real differences come in when its time to get that money. Most of the BIG bosses in music are old white guys. Yeah, you can name Diddy, L.A. Reid and a couple of others but those guys are mid-level to upper mid-level players and are just tokens put in place to keep up appearances. None are on Sumner Redstone's level or people of his ilk. They are all older white males and most are Jewish.
Everyone in the industry knows there is a club and everyone knows who's in it. People in the industry know who signs the checks and they know who not to piss off.
In the promotions game, if you are black, you are not allowed access to rock or pop shows. Promoters will promote ANYONE WHO WILL BRING IN REVENUE. Its not that black promoters don't want to promote white artists; THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO.
William Morris is big business and big business is white privileged. If a black promoter tried to promote Timberlake or Pink or Taylor Swift, they would not be allowed to., even if everything else was already in place (venue, etc.)
If a white promoter wanted to promote any black artist or artist of color, they are allowed full access. The promotions game is the legwork of the music industry and is still almost as racist as it was in the 60s. It still operates the same way because there is no checks and balances system in the promotions game.
Almost all of the equipment rental businesses are white owned. If you book a venue, you have to also rent the sound system if the venue does not have its own available for rent.

The black-owned rental businesses usually rent to very small venue-.
So, yeah you can be a black artist because they have your ass under contract nd you are an indentured servant. 360 deals are as common as sub prime loans for black artists. You can create the music, produce other artists, mix the music (although most studio owners are also white) and you can operate in limited capacities in other aspects of the game. Make no mistake, there IS white privilege and even racism in the music biz. The faces on the outside don't reflect the faces on the inside.

BlaqueKnight said:

We can go back and forth on artists all day long. The real differences are behind the scenes, where the average person does not venture.

The real differences come in when its time to get that money. Most of the BIG bosses in music are old white guys. Yeah, you can name Diddy, L.A. Reid and a couple of others but those guys are mid-level to upper mid-level players and are just tokens put in place to keep up appearances. None are on Sumner Redstone's level or people of his ilk. They are all older white males and most are Jewish.
Everyone in the industry knows there is a club and everyone knows who's in it. People in the industry know who signs the checks and they know who not to piss off.
In the promotions game, if you are black, you are not allowed access to rock or pop shows. Promoters will promote ANYONE WHO WILL BRING IN REVENUE. Its not that black promoters don't want to promote white artists; THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO.
William Morris is big business and big business is white privileged. If a black promoter tried to promote Timberlake or Pink or Taylor Swift, they would not be allowed to., even if everything else was already in place (venue, etc.)
If a white promoter wanted to promote any black artist or artist of color, they are allowed full access. The promotions game is the legwork of the music industry and is still almost as racist as it was in the 60s. It still operates the same way because there is no checks and balances system in the promotions game.
Almost all of the equipment rental businesses are white owned. If you book a venue, you have to also rent the sound system if the venue does not have its own available for rent.

The black-owned rental businesses usually rent to very small venue-.
So, yeah you can be a black artist because they have your ass under contract nd you are an indentured servant. 360 deals are as common as sub prime loans for black artists. You can create the music, produce other artists, mix the music (although most studio owners are also white) and you can operate in limited capacities in other aspects of the game. Make no mistake, there IS white privilege and even racism in the music biz. The faces on the outside don't reflect the faces on the inside.

It does my old heart good to see someone sees beyond the superficial aspects of this complicated industry. KUDOS !

[Edited 4/17/13 14:10pm]