Timmy84 said:

Pretty fucking much... so things "weren't better back then"...

Acts were criticized too. Some afrocentric and upper class blacks during the "Black Power/Black Panther" era in the 1960's/70's criticized blues singers for making low class backwards music and making black people look bad. Sort of what is happening with rap today. White performers primarily from England gave veteran blues acts shout outs like Paul Butterfield, The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton, etc. So acts like Lightnin' Hopkins & Mississippi John Hurt started getting booked in hippie/beatnik hangouts & coffeehouses and getting TV appearances. Other recorded songs with British musicians like B.B. King and Muddy Waters.

mjscarousal said:

lastdecember said:

Luckily i havent been forced to hear that from the artists that i love and respect enough to listen to what they have to say about music. As far as it has gotten was Barry Manilow saying Lady GaGa has what it takes to be a long time artist, though im not crazy about her the talent is there for sure. And then you have Prince, i think Prince draws the line though at Beyonce and Alicia, as far as mainstream and though we all may not like them, again the talent is there what they do with it is a different story, i think if i hear Prince touting Rhianna "is a force to be reckoned with" i will drop dead. Outside of that, artists i respect to listen to opinions really when speaking of aritsts they like NEVER mention anyone charted or in the light so i have been fortunate with that. Even Richard Marx whom i respect to death as a composer and artist even draws the line, though he is a "mainstream" writer when you ask him who he listens to, it again is artists not even charting now or ever really. Rick Springfield whom i respect to death, Never really names artists, he basically has issues with how now, u could never do what artists did in the 70's and 80's ACTUALLY NOT SELL right away, Elton John also has voiced this opinion, and even HE who is very mainstream with his likes, also doesnt really tout pop stars now.

I agree on all your points i just think the ISSUE i have now, isnt really what is in mainstream, its the fact that there is such a limit on what gets out there, this i blame on djs vjs labels radio execs etc...NO ONE thinks out the box anymore, there is NO competition, as Dave Grohl said "Just because there are many more ways to put music out and more of it, DOESNT MEAN THERE IS MORE GOOD STUFF OUT THERE" and this to me shoots down the myth that there is "gold" out there waiting undiscovered, sometimes peeps need to just accept that one time was better than another. ANd now that the focus is a SINGLE and not an ALBUM how the hell can you grow by putting out one song every year?

I agree with everything and I have the same issue. Its frustrating that there is artists that are not even new artists that come out with music but their music does not get the right radio promotion for whatever reason.

And I just want to add this.

I dont see anything wrong with saying someone is talented. Because everybody has some form of talent one way or another. Some have more than others. But I just think calling someone the second coming and legendary is to extreme (when there talent or music does not reflect that) wPrince has NEVER said that about Alicia or Beyonce he just said that they are talented which I dont disagree with but not extradionarily talented, original or creative. Im sure Prince also knows that behind closed doors and when the camera is not rolling.

Your right. Coming out with an album every single year or even two years is just crazy to me because if you constantly coming out with music and doing other things you do not have time to grow as an artist.Like I said, these artists nowadays are not real artists there just media stars and just care about the spotlight. Its sad that the real artists have to suffer because the industry promotes media stars instead of real artists.

I agree on all that, alot to an extreme is media created, also SOCIAL media created, this is why i feel though the internet opened alot of cool things, it also created alot of "non events" "non journalists" and critics that TELL u what is great before its even out or when its just out, the HYPE on this Timberlake record is a joke, again he is talented and i get that, but i cant really get into it till the craze dies down, i dont like being told that something is great. I can see a "mass" label created, media created, push to get this to be a seller. Granted he is a big seller, and im not taking anything away from him, BUT u cant form opinions when U ARE TOLD WHAT YOUR OPINIONS should be even before. Of course if u arent into it, you are labeled as close minded, BUT i challenge that argument to those saying that i will give you a list of 50 artists out now that i dig and u listen to them and OPEN your mind, but you cant talk to people who judge everything on age and sales and relevance to a chart.

MickyDolenz said:

Scorp said:

but you have a litany of artists whose work has been hijacked who can't sue because they never owned their songrights, therefore, those who are sampling their work don't have to pay

That's no different than any other time in the music business. Since the record industry began, most acts don't get royalties, and there was no sampling. Managers and/or record company heads have added their names to songs that they had nothing to do with. There was a doo wop group called The Cadillacs in where the members wrote some of their songs, but their manager Esther Navarro registered the songs at the copyright office only under her name, and the group were not credited at all. She made all of the money. Most of those classic acts you're talking about were ripped off with bad record contracts or by shady mangerers, accountants, promoters, entourage, publishing companies, etc. So the acts weren't going to get paid in the first place, whether or not they are sampled, if their records are in print, or if their songs are used in commercials, movies, TV shows, or compilations like the ones sold on those Time/Life infomercials.

all that is true.....

but the difference is there existed great authenticity and creativity.....that's what I'm talkin about....even in the face of the way they were treated, they were still craking out memorable music

sampling is not being used today to give exposure to those who came before them

sampling is being used because creativity has been stifled......

and the current artists on the scene, they know it

Scorp said:

all that is true.....

but the difference is there existed great authenticity and creativity.....that's what I'm talkin about....even in the face of the way they were treated, they were still craking out memorable music

sampling is not being used today to give exposure to those who came before them

sampling is being used because creativity has been stifled......

and the current artists on the scene, they know it

So you've listened to every single act all over the world that makes records today? I don't hear any sampling in Celtic Woman music. As far as having music that is remembered, that's because oldies stations play certain songs over and over or they are used in commercial ads and movies/TV shows. I can pull up a random Billboard chart from the 1980's and the decades before, and the average person is not going to know most of the hits and performers listed on them. And there's way many more songs and albums that never charted at all and some that were regional hits and only are known to a certain area.

mjscarousal said:

when they know its crap?

This is not another complaint thread but a serious question because I just dont understand how artists who play instruments, write their own music and put time into their music can compliment media stars and puppets.

Are they just punkasses (afraid of backlash) or do you think they sincerely enjoy bad music?

I do not know how many times I have heard iconic rappers compliment Drake, Lil Wayne, Nikki music etc likewise with the singers.

I just dont understand it

Are they doing it so they can be "hip"

What are they smoking?

Nobody out now is making any thing iconic or half way descent on the radio. The radio has been shit for over a decade now and these legendary singers glorifying these wack ass acts.

MickyDolenz said:

mjscarousal said:

when they know its crap?

Unless you have ESP, how do you know what someone else likes? Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean another person doesn't. There's no such thing as "crap" music, just music snobs. Being a music bigot is not really any different than any other type of prejudice, judging things you don't like, and putting it down. It can't be proven that one act or music is better than another, it's your opinion, not a fact.

Then I'll be a music snob and a bigot.

MickyDolenz said:

Timmy84 said:

Pretty fucking much... so things "weren't better back then"...

Acts were criticized too. Some afrocentric and upper class blacks during the "Black Power/Black Panther" era in the 1960's/70's criticized blues singers for making low class backwards music and making black people look bad. Sort of what is happening with rap today. White performers primarily from England gave veteran blues acts shout outs like Paul Butterfield, The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton, etc. So acts like Lightnin' Hopkins & Mississippi John Hurt started getting booked in hippie/beatnik hangouts & coffeehouses and getting TV appearances. Other recorded songs with British musicians like B.B. King and Muddy Waters.

Stymie said:

MickyDolenz said:

Unless you have ESP, how do you know what someone else likes? Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean another person doesn't. There's no such thing as "crap" music, just music snobs. Being a music bigot is not really any different than any other type of prejudice, judging things you don't like, and putting it down. It can't be proven that one act or music is better than another, it's your opinion, not a fact.

Then I'll be a music snob and a bigot.

Dont allow people to give you labels ESPECIALLY on this site. There is nothing snobbish about acknowledging that some artists sugar coat their public statements about some of todays acts.

Stymie said:

mjscarousal said:

Graycap23 said:

lastdecember said:

mjscarousal said:

I agree with everything and I have the same issue. Its frustrating that there is artists that are not even new artists that come out with music but their music does not get the right radio promotion for whatever reason.

And I just want to add this.

I dont see anything wrong with saying someone is talented. Because everybody has some form of talent one way or another. Some have more than others. But I just think calling someone the second coming and legendary is to extreme (when there talent or music does not reflect that) wPrince has NEVER said that about Alicia or Beyonce he just said that they are talented which I dont disagree with but not extradionarily talented, original or creative. Im sure Prince also knows that behind closed doors and when the camera is not rolling.

Your right. Coming out with an album every single year or even two years is just crazy to me because if you constantly coming out with music and doing other things you do not have time to grow as an artist.Like I said, these artists nowadays are not real artists there just media stars and just care about the spotlight. Its sad that the real artists have to suffer because the industry promotes media stars instead of real artists.

I agree on all that, alot to an extreme is media created, also SOCIAL media created, this is why i feel though the internet opened alot of cool things, it also created alot of "non events" "non journalists" and critics that TELL u what is great before its even out or when its just out, the HYPE on this Timberlake record is a joke, again he is talented and i get that, but i cant really get into it till the craze dies down, i dont like being told that something is great. I can see a "mass" label created, media created, push to get this to be a seller. Granted he is a big seller, and im not taking anything away from him, BUT u cant form opinions when U ARE TOLD WHAT YOUR OPINIONS should be even before. Of course if u arent into it, you are labeled as close minded, BUT i challenge that argument to those saying that i will give you a list of 50 artists out now that i dig and u listen to them and OPEN your mind, but you cant talk to people who judge everything on age and sales and relevance to a chart.

Well Said!!!!

I think people rely to much on the media and critics to tell them what they should and should not listen to but then again I feel this way about most things in general.

I guess if something is number one and wins alot of awards that means "they must be good or the music must be good" if you ask me I think that is being closeminded.

Stymie said:

Graycap23 said:

Where in the hell is the redeeming value in soulja boy, Nikki manag, 2 chainz, Ross, Tyga,.....etc. straight GARBAGE.

To me, there is nothing redeeming about it and I agree with you but, because I can respect that people have different music tastes, I usually keep my opinion that such music sucks to myself.

Just because people have different music tastes doesnt mean you cant express your opinion dont get it twisted. If something sucks to me then it fuckin sucks, I dont care how many people likes it and I dont have no problem in saying that it sucks

People on this site scold people to the point they dont want to share their opinion.

mjscarousal said:

MickyDolenz said:

Scorp said:

all that is true.....

but the difference is there existed great authenticity and creativity.....that's what I'm talkin about....even in the face of the way they were treated, they were still craking out memorable music

sampling is not being used today to give exposure to those who came before them

sampling is being used because creativity has been stifled......

and the current artists on the scene, they know it

So you've listened to every single act all over the world that makes records today? I don't hear any sampling in Celtic Woman music. As far as having music that is remembered, that's because oldies stations play certain songs over and over or they are used in commercial ads and movies/TV shows. I can pull up a random Billboard chart from the 1980's and the decades before, and the average person is not going to know most of the hits and performers listed on them. And there's way many more songs and albums that never charted at all and some that were regional hits and only are known to a certain area.

No I have not listened to every act.....that's impossible for anyone to do

but my ears lets me know the overall level of music has declined drastically over the past quarter century....

and the thing is, that assertion has been spoken by millions over that time so that's not an isolated thought

just about every day, I check out youtube and whenever I come across one of the one of those memo memorable songs of the 70s or 80s, I'm seeing more and more current teenagers respond by saying that music was way better and wish they would have grown up during those years

when I grew up, my generation wasn't longing for yesterday because the music was that great, but at the same time we knew about the music of the previous generation because our parents taught us about it, we had been listening to it as little kids, we already had a point of reference before we became teenagers in the 80s....we already had a foundation...we didn't need an oldie station because there was no such thing as old school vs new school, it was all school

so while we grew up on acts like the Jackson Five, we still enjoyed the adult contemporaries such as James Brown, or the luminaries like Sammy Davis Jr., or icons such as Frank Sinatra, or stalwarts such as Dizzy Gillespie.....there was a much broader range on the spectrum

it was so broad, much of the music the teenagers were listening to in the 80s, the adults and parents were listening to

the reason why the current generation of youth may not be aware of those songs from the 80s is because of the generational gap produced by that entity AKA the Pop Ascension generated by the close of that decade, that pushed out the artists today's youth would have been more aware of if that had not taken place, we were encouraged to listen to all different forms of music, so therefore, we were familiar w/a vast array of artists from your MJs to a guy like Jose Feliciano or a Luciano Pavoritti

that's not the case anymore

this is how crazy it is....

MC HAMMER released PLEASE HAMMER DON'T HURT EM in 1990, with his most popular song being U CAN'T TOUCH THIS.....a record that sampled Rick James "Super Freak"....

what's crazy is the fans cramming to buy that album not realizing that song featured a major sample and the original song was released only 9 years before

Stymie said:

mjscarousal said:

Just because people have different music tastes doesnt mean you cant express your opinion dont get it twisted. If something sucks to me then it fuckin sucks, I dont care how many people likes it and I dont have no problem in saying that it sucks

People on this site scold people to the point they dont want to share their opinion.

its just not worth it to me to share my opinion. I could explain with charts and graphs and shit and someone would still tell me my opinion is wrong.

You shoudnt feel that way. I mean this sincerely. You are entitled to your opinion regardless of how many people disagree with you. It is still YOUR opinion and no one can take that away from you. You shouldnt allow people to take your voice away because your opinion may empower someone else. I think sharing your opinion is worth it because it shows your individuality. Dont allow people to take that from you....

mjscarousal said:

^ Exactly and that is why people dont care to express their opinion here.

phunkdaddy said:

I knew this all along when you made the original post but some people just want to take you from A through Z to bullshit for no reason and try to twist your point of view and speak nonsense.

Because I don't believe that the celebs are lying, then my comments are nonsense? If what I said is nonsense, show me some proof that the veteran acts are not telling the truth. Otherwise no one can know what another person really thinks.

Graycap23 said:

Where in the hell is the redeeming value in soulja boy, Nikki manag, 2 chainz, Ross, Tyga,.....etc. straight GARBAGE.

If I go to the average death metal listener and ask them about Mint Condition, they might say the same thing about that group if they even heard of them. Saying you don't like something is one thing, but putting down something you don't like as "crap" and "garbage" is not nice. That's insulting the people who enjoy the music of those acts.

MickyDolenz said:

MickyDolenz said:

MickyDolenz said:

mjscarousal said:

Graycap23 said:

Politically correct.......hoping that there are some talented folks on the horizon.

Why kill the golden goose with your tongue?

Apparently being politically correct is immature

@mjscarousal... you aren't being politically correct, but politically incorrect.

The artists in question are being politically correct.

Azz said:

mjscarousal said:

Apparently being politically correct is immature

@mjscarousal... you aren't being politically correct, but politically incorrect.

The artists in question are being politically correct.

And what are those artists?

Because I didnt mention any veteran artists in the OP

mjscarousal said:

Azz said:

@mjscarousal... you aren't being politically correct, but politically incorrect.

The artists in question are being politically correct.

And what are those artists?

Because I didnt mention any veteran artists in the OP

Well, perhaps I should have quoted 'legendary singers' instead.

It depends on your definition of 'crap'. Which current artists in the 'mainstream music scene' do you consider 'crap'?

And what artists do you consider 'legendary'?

Surely you have some in mind since you created the thread?

Azz said:

mjscarousal said:

And what are those artists?

Because I didnt mention any veteran artists in the OP

Well, perhaps I should have quoted 'legendary singers' instead.

It depends on your definition of 'crap'. Which current artists in the 'mainstream music scene' do you consider 'crap'?

And what artists do you consider 'legendary'?

Surely you have some in mind since you created the thread?

I do...... but how did you derive that the legendary/veteran artists that I am referring to are politically correct when you dont know what artists I am talking about.

There is a lot of old crap and a lot of new stuff that is great - and vice versa. People have been saying "OMG music is such CRAP now" every year for as long as I can remember. It's pretty funny and predictable, actually.

Luckily nobody gives a shit about the opinions of people who really don't have a clue what they are talking about. It is entertaing, though!

Nobody gives a shit about any of your opinions

mjscarousal said:

Azz said:

Well, perhaps I should have quoted 'legendary singers' instead.

It depends on your definition of 'crap'. Which current artists in the 'mainstream music scene' do you consider 'crap'?

And what artists do you consider 'legendary'?

Surely you have some in mind since you created the thread?

I do...... but how did you derive that the legendary/veteran artists that I am referring to are politically correct when you dont know what artists I am talking about.

I was generalising lol.