LittleBLUECorvette said:

mjscarousal said:

I say all this in l.o.v.e cause I know my posts can sound aggressive sometimes, nothing personal

How so?

I think its really irrelevant because it has nothing to do with an artists body of work or innovations. They could be from Jupitar... Why does that matter if we are critiquing their music? That does not validate the quality of their music.

[Edited 10/24/12 19:55pm]

Jay Z and Eminem are not my favorite of anything but you can't deny their legendary status in Hip-Hop.

And what's with the gimmick hate? We're on a forum for one of the biggest gimmicks in music.

I can tell you why all of those rappers are legendary/Icon status.

Digital Underground: They didn't do anything special, bt were a real good group out of Oakland who wasn't doin gangsta rap.

Too $hort The first rapper to spit about sex and pimp lifestyle among other things.

E-40: Ambassador of the bay

Snoop Dogg No explanation needed

UGK Southern rap pioneers

Redman Great lyricist

Bone-Thugs-N-Harmony First mid-west artist to make it big. Added harmony to raps.

Nas All time great

Busta Rhymes great lyricist

Fugees One album but was great and just huge

Jay-Z hate him or love him you can't deny him a spot.

Master P changed the game forever.

DMX great lyricist

Missy Elliot Unique in rappin/singing/production end

Eminem same as Jay-Z

Three-6-Mafia bought a menacing style, or an early form of what is known as Trap Rap.

And Mos Def, I love dude. He is legendary, I just didn't complete my list. There are about 10 more artist I could add.

I see what you're saying perfectly. I guess I believe their is more room then 10 artist in Hip-Hop's goin on 35 year history to be considered legends.

And come on honey, you know the only songs brothas know from Fresh, Bam and Sugar Gang is Rappers Delight, The Show and Planet Rock.

Ehm, you put all those people as legends and didnt include Nas? Who made the best rap album of all time (according to most critics & hiphop fans)

mjscarousal said:

The Sugar Hill Gang

Grandmasterflash&Furious Five

Afrika Bambaataa

Big Daddy Kane

Slick Rick

Doug E Fresh

Kool Moe Dee

Gang Starr/Guru

Run Dmc

NWA

Krs One

Public Enemy

Mobb Deep----my bad

Eric B&Rakim

De La Soul

Wu Tang

2pac

Biggie--- 2pac is superior but Ill include him...

Thats pretty much it

[Edited 10/23/12 20:27pm]

This list is interesting, because what's really a legend? The pioneers, like the first on this list or the ones that really brought something new to the game? I dont necesairly believe that you automatically are a legend because you're a pioneer. Including Pac & Biggie, and not Nas is a big mistake too, he influenced the genre massively. He did things nobody had done prior to him, no subject was taboo for him. He influenced both Biggie and Pac, change that, he's influenced most rappers since Illmatic. It's funny to me how people like to ignore Nas, when he has one of the most diverse and beautiful street poetry ever written in the art of hiphop. (Yes, I'm stanning now lmao xD )

[Edited 10/25/12 8:11am]

Nas is great but what did he really do different that Kool G Rap, Scarface and 'em weren't doing already in terms of the type of rap he did?

GoldDolphin said:

silverchild said:

Most definitely. They already are. They have one of the greatest runs in hip-hop history and evolved the game.

OutKast's body of work over 20 years takes a backseat to no one in the hip-hop game, and perhaps music as a whole. They took the best of hip-hop and other genres and always upped the ante with each album. Not a huge OutKast fan but their status is undeniable.

PDogz said:

As far as who WILL EVER be considered legends: I feel many people will be surprised by some of today's "artists" that will be considered "legends" 25 to 50 years from now.

I love OutKast; think they are outstanding, and have most of their recordings. Though while I would not quite consider them legends YET (...in the way I consider Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles, Elvis Presley, or The Beatles legends), I certainly feel that they will eventually achieve that type of legendary status by those who will remember them in the future (while acknowledging that some feel they are already). Just as I'm sure they'll eventually be inducted into the Hall of Fame as well.

All fair. As you note, the term is relative. Though not a huge fan, it's undeniable they've carved their place on the musical map for the long haul.

You can't tell the story of popular music as a whole for the preceding

generation (1992-present) without them.

mjscarousal said:

Is it possible they could be legends? Could be possible, they have a strong catalogue (which most of their generation dont have) but is to soon to call them legends now...

Yes.

They havent even influenced or impacted another era or generation to even say they have had a profound impact on the industry... well thats at least one of the things I think of when I hear legend.

Au contraire, mon soeur.

They've been highly influential. If for no other reason than they won a Grammy for Album of the Year with a concept album. That's an impact.

They helped usher Goodie Mob on the scene, featuring one Cee-Lo Green. I'd say he's been influential in his own right.

And I think you could google "artists influenced by OutKast" or "artists praise OutKast" and find a number of artists -- stars and up-and-comers -- who cite OutKast as an influence.

You couldn't tell hip-hop's story without them. Not all legends are created equal but OutKast are legends all the same.

GoldDolphin said:

mjscarousal said:

The Sugar Hill Gang

Grandmasterflash&Furious Five

Afrika Bambaataa

Big Daddy Kane

Slick Rick

Doug E Fresh

Kool Moe Dee

Gang Starr/Guru

Run Dmc

NWA

Krs One

Public Enemy

Mobb Deep----my bad

Eric B&Rakim

De La Soul

Wu Tang

2pac

Biggie--- 2pac is superior but Ill include him...

Thats pretty much it

[Edited 10/23/12 20:27pm]

This list is interesting, because what's really a legend? The pioneers, like the first on this list or the ones that really brought something new to the game? I dont necesairly believe that you automatically are a legend because you're a pioneer. Including Pac & Biggie, and not Nas is a big mistake too, he influenced the genre massively. He did things nobody had done prior to him, no subject was taboo for him. He influenced both Biggie and Pac, change that, he's influenced most rappers since Illmatic. It's funny to me how people like to ignore Nas, when he has one of the most diverse and beautiful street poetry ever written in the art of hiphop. (Yes, I'm stanning now lmao xD )

[Edited 10/25/12 8:11am]

Gurl Nas is my favorite rapper you need to read my posts after this one .... and I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING U SAID!!

It seems like yall are confussing pioneers with legends. Just because you didn't pioneer anything shouldn't mean you can't be a legend.

Michael Jordan never pionered anything in the league, yet he's the biggest legend in the NBA.

UMMM....FUCK....NO.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

It seems like yall are confussing pioneers with legends. Just because you didn't pioneer anything shouldn't mean you can't be a legend.

Michael Jordan never pionered anything in the league, yet he's the biggest legend in the NBA.

Respond to my points or you automatically forfeit and I win also MJ did pioneered some aspects about the league.

[Edited 10/26/12 9:11am]

But LBC, why are you dismissing the fact that Afrika Bambattaa is a legend? I'm still scratching my head over that...

[Edited 10/25/12 20:32pm]

mjscarousal said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Jay Z and Eminem are not my favorite of anything but you can't deny their legendary status in Hip-Hop.

Elaborate?

You keep saying Jay Z is a legend and really havent made any points to support this.

Jay has put a bunch of nice albums. I'm not a huge Jay fan, but Reasonable Doubt is a classic, Black Album and Blueprint right below. Like I said, you can't deny his skills on the mic, bitter or not.

I know you did not just call Prince a gimmick

I am not hating on a gimmick but being a gimmick does not require alot of talent and is heavily based on image, marketing more so than talent so with that being said gimmicks do not last long and usually dont have the catalogue to have any staying power.

Wearing draws on stage is a gimmick. Having your guitar shoot out liquids is a gimmick. Changing your name is a gimmick, and so on and so on.

Digital Underground

Once again, it does not matter where they came from and if they did not do anything special ..... how can they be called legendary They were a descent alternative hip hop group and while they were creative they didnt do anything innovative by that time there had already been groups similiar to them before them but I think groups like Sugar Hill, Afrika had a more bigger impact...... If anything they are icons but I wouldnt call them legends.

See, I'm not getting why who have to create something, or be an innovator or pioneer to be considered a legend. Why can't you just be good at your craft?

Too $hort

You sure about that

Wasnt NWA doing that in the 80's Pimp Life style, sex etc thats all gangsta rap. NWA and 2 Live Crew territory... 2 Short was not the first to do this. 2 Short is irrelevant to hip hop among other things and its b.s. that you would insist they are legends PERIOD.

$hort Dogg was out years and years before NWA and 2 Live Crew. He released 3 albums and EPs before anyone had even heard of NWA or 2 Live Crew. Short is the original West Coast OG. The original dirty talker.

E-40

Seriously? Of what Bay? Because that has nothing to do with the quality of their music which is ZERO.

E-40 is a great lyricist. It's a reason why he's bein the game 20+ years.

Snoop Dogg

His a veteran of the game, I will give him that but Snoop Dog never really stood out as a rapper and kinda was always a gimmick rapper. He has maybe one or two classics with Dr. Dre but as an overall artist he really isnt a crucial figure. The only artist off of Death Row that with any significant impact is 2pac.... no question. Snoop Dogg, Kurupt, Daz etc were all the same really. Not to mention he didnt even write/produce any of those songs. His manage to still have a music career after all these years, I am not knocking his hustle but his music is garbage outside a few songs he did in the early 90s but he does not have a big impact to name him a legend of anything.

Are we really denying Snoops Dogg's legendary status in the Hip-Hop world? Temptations/O'Jays didn't write or produce their music, but they are legends ... are they not??

UGK

To whom? They didnt pioneer anything

To a lot of people. Te bought a different style to rap in the early-mid 90s.

Bone-Thugs-N-Harmony

They are legends and if you read my last response I said they were one of my favorites.

I agree with this.

Bone-Thugs can be considered Legends but not Snoop or the other artist I listed. Are the legends just because you like them?

Nas

He is my favorite rapper.... so yes I am going to agree with this. His a legend because he was a talented great lyrist...ahead of his tim and that was a period when rap started to get alot more political.

Yes he is a legend... I was just trying to not be biased in my list because he does have some filler but he is a legend.

Nas a legend too, because you like him??

Busta Rhymes

You cant be serious with this? His okay for a mainstream rapper but there is nothing legendary about his body of work or his impact on hip hop. I would take Mos Def any day of the week over him.

Busta has been legendary since his Leader of the New School Days. Busta is one of the Native Tongues. HE released great music in the 90s. Decent albums in the later half of the 2000s.

The Fugees

They were good but they didnt make a profound impact to call them legends. Thats like me calling Lauryn Hill a legend but I do think she is a Icon even with one album but that is because it was and is highly influential.

What impact has Mos Def made, none really. He is just a great rapper. Also, the Fugee's made a huge impace on Hip-Hop. The Score was huge in 1995, HUGE. The Love Below/Speakerboxxx huge ... if you get my drift.

Jay-Z

Once again you name drop this man like 5 times and still havent given any arguements as to why you think he is a legend. Here is why I think he isnt..... his overrated which is pretty much obvious but he kinda always was. Even when he came out in the 90s hyping for Big Daddy Kane and released Reasonable Doubt (which is the best out of his catalogue but it still is overrated) Dude does not excelerate in any area related to music, lyrics, songwriter, flow, etc.. just average and mediocre and because he is popular and is successful in other areas non related to music people hype him up which automatically allows him to get away with making really bad music but still gets praised for it....

So you tell me how he is a legend again? I dont even like Eminem and think his better.

Sounds like a male Diana Ross, but we all call Miss Ross a legend. You work with what you have, and it puts you over the top. And I think you're underrating him much. He is an above avg lyricist (way above actually.) You may not like him, fine but you can't deny his status, it's LEGENDARY.

Master P

Master P Boo I cant even recall any songs that had a big major impact....or that were even popular

Where were you between 1996 and 2000? P had one of the biggest impacts in the history of the game. He was a game changer. He changed how deals were made, how music was put out and marketed.

DMX

He is one of my favorites as well as I mentioned in my last response. I said that I think I would call him a legend because his rapping and delivering style was unique and his music was pretty good. I respect DMX more than someone like Jay Z because although he was commerical and at one time more successful than Jay (hits, charts wise) he still made pretty good albums and stayed true to his music, he didnt completely change.

He's a legend because he's one of your favorites.

Missy Elliot

I think Missy is dope at what she does which is pretty much being a gimmick rapper but I wouldnt call her a legend although she is light years better than Nikki.

What's a gimmick rapper, I'm not understanding? Biggie Smalls was a gimmick rapper also.

Emenim

I like him more than Jay but he is very overrated. He has one really good album and thats his first and the rest of his albums are either bad or have alot of filler on them. I wouldnt call him a legend because he didnt bring anything new to the table and he was not consistent with his music.

A lot of artist are not consistent with there music. Did anyone like Prince's Come album? I'm not a huge fan, but you can't deny his legendary status in the game.

Three-6-Mafia

Three 6 Mafia and Hip Hop and legends should not be in any sentence together what so ever!!!

Why are they not legends? They brought something new to the game. They pioneered something. Basically Trap Rap and Crunk Music comes from 3-6.

Ive heard other songs besides those songs although they are trademark classics and I think your arguement is silly with insisting that since someone may just know one song by them that means the person isnt a legend. It isnt about how popular they are... it is about quality and what they contributed to HIP HOP... not to fashion, not to movies, not to NBA sports teams, PERIOD.

I never said those artist were not legends. I was saying compared to Outkast, the avg Joe knows their discography more than those 3 artist.

CHECKMATE!!

[Edited 10/25/12 21:07pm]

Andre 3000 is your favourite rappers favourite rapper. He get's mentioned on almost every top 5 list I see from rap heads, even though many rap heads hate his eccentric side.

SPCM & ATLiens are considered hip hop classics by many

Aquemini & Stankonia was not just hip hop classics, but classics and historically important albums
The Love Below was their last great album, it had their biggest hits, but Dre 3k went a bit too far for many

Dre was considered weird, until a few years later when more "normal" rappers and producers like Kanye West did similar eccentric stuff. IMO it would be impossible for Kanye to release albums like 808 & Heartbrake, and later his Beautiful Dark Twisted whatever if it wasn't for OutKast making it ok to do stuff to hip hop that some would consider "gay" back then. OutKast did breath some life back into the game.

Timmy84 said:

But LBC, why are you dismissing the fact that Afrika Bambattaa is a legend? I'm still scratching my head over that...

[Edited 10/25/12 20:32pm]

Jay Z, E 40, Master P are more legendary than Africa Bambatta who pioneered an entire sub genre

[Edited 10/26/12 10:15am]

mjscarousal said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

mjscarousal said:

Jay Z, E 40, Master P are more legendary than Africa Bambatta who pioneered an entire sub genre

[Edited 10/26/12 10:15am]

I never said those guys were more legendary than Bam. They are all lengendary in their own right.

I had responded to your above points but Prince.org tripping so I have to write it all over again and it was long :/

O AND

you did imply that

you did try to minimize Afrika's impact by insisting since they were the first of their kind it would falsely appear that they are legendary...

I am still kinda unclear about that myself because logically speaking it doesnt make sense

[Edited 10/26/12 11:41am]

Anybody that don't see them as legends probably didn't follow their career closley and are probably only familiar with Love Below/Speakerbox. They were already legends as early as Aquemini.

Meloh9 said:

Anybody that don't see them as legends probably didn't follow their career closley and are probably only familiar with Love Below/Speakerbox. They were already legends as early as Aquemini.

Unfortunately, outside the South, a lot of folks don't know much about their pre-Stankonia work.

Aquemini is as beloved in the South and among many if not most hip-hop heads as any hip-hop album in history. It even got 5 mics from The Source when that still actually mattered.

But this may be my favorite, going back to the beginning.

namepeace said:

Meloh9 said:

Anybody that don't see them as legends probably didn't follow their career closley and are probably only familiar with Love Below/Speakerbox. They were already legends as early as Aquemini.

Unfortunately, outside the South, a lot of folks don't know much about their pre-Stankonia work.

Aquemini is as beloved in the South and among many if not most hip-hop heads as any hip-hop album in history. It even got 5 mics from The Source when that still actually mattered.

But this may be my favorite, going back to the beginning.

Each album raised the bar, and Atliens was the album that cemented me as a fan.

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

.

Jay has put a bunch of nice albums. I'm not a huge Jay fan, but Reasonable Doubt is a classic, Black Album and Blueprint right below. Like I said, you can't deny his skills on the mic, bitter or not.

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

Jay-Z

.Sounds like a male Diana Ross, but we all call Miss Ross a legend. You work with what you have, and it puts you over the top. And I think you're underrating him much. He is an above avg lyricist (way above actually.) You may not like him, fine but you can't deny his status, it's LEGENDARY.

Jay Z is being marketed as the greatest rapper of all time and people have a right to question that and its ridiculous being he has a mediocre catalogue compared to the real legends of the genre who have done more and get less credit than him and the reason why he gets away with it is because of his popularity.

Calling 3 albums out of 11 is not ALOT of albums as you were implying and he hasnt came out with alot of good albums as far as legendary. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, I said that Reasonable Doubt was HIS BEST but just because thats HIS BEST doesnt mean its on the top legendary album list. Some people would place it, I personally wouldnt because there are more legendary superior albums from his era like Illmatic.

I am not underrated Jay

When I critique Jay Z I am not comparing him to 70s, 80s MC's, I am looking at MC's that have also came out of his era which consists of MC's like Nas, 2pac, Mos Def, Biggie, etc and out of that crop he is objectively the weakest overall in terms of his catalogue and his overall rapping skills which while it does not completely suck it is decidely average at best. Those other MC's are far superior than Jay in that department, I am not even talking about music right now I am just talking about lyrist talent and then when you add music.... he is like a poor man Biggie Smalls except Biggie at least had more better catch lines Jay Z recycles other rappers line and steals others ideas. He does have catchy beats/production but thats about it...

So yes I take all of that into consideration when someone says ridiculous crap that he is the best. I think he probably is the most successful commercial rapper BUT that doesnt necessarily reflect quality or skill and it seems he is more respected for that than exactly contributing to the Hip Hop genre musically.

And their were rappers like P Diddy who did what alot of people are suggesting Jay was the first to do, although I dont like P Diddy he was the first rapper entrepeneur/businessman.

On Diana Ross comparision: I am not sure why you are even comparing Jay Z to Diana Ross. For one thing Diana Ross is legend not as a solo artist but more specifically because she was a member of a legendary group. She is mostly seen as a ICON for her solo efforts but she was already a legend before she even went solo. Not a good comparision

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

Wearing draws on stage is a gimmick. Having your guitar shoot out liquids is a gimmick. Changing your name is a gimmick, and so on and so on.

When Prince changed his name he did it because it was for political reasons and he was trying to protest against his label for more artisitic input, that had nothing to do with being a gimmick.

The other two examples, I cant really defend. However that has nothing to do with his TALENT and he never marketed those things above his talent or music. When I said he wasnt a gimmick I meant in terms of the fact that he had RAW TALENT and he didnt have to revert to making crappy music or doing other things to replace the fact that he didnt. To an extent, every artist has some kind of gimmick but not all are bad in depends on the artist. Like an artist like MJ, the white socks, white glove etc was iconic and made he set apart.

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

Digital Underground

See, I'm not getting why who have to create something, or be an innovator or pioneer to be considered a legend. Why can't you just be good at your craft?

To an extent you are right but the problem is there are alot of good artists that have not made a significant impact on the genre and it is not accurate to call them a legend in that instance they could probably be called ICONS but then it depends on the artist.

Going by your logic every good artist is a legend and that is not necessarily true. You use legend to loosely in this arguement even though we are talking about genre legend, I think the artist music has to have had a big impact. What about all those other undeground, indie artists that have had 5/6 albums are they legends as well because their good at their craft? They probably wont never reach Jay Z popularity because they dont revert to making that kind of music but despite their consistency to put out good music doesnt mean they are legends.

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

Too $hort

$hort Dogg was out years and years before NWA and 2 Live Crew. He released 3 albums and EPs before anyone had even heard of NWA or 2 Live Crew. Short is the original West Coast OG. The original dirty talker.

I disagree with that.

NWA were the first to bring gangsta rap into the mainstream and they did more besides talking dirty which made them more significant and he didnt come out years and years before NWA he came out in the 80s as well :/ and it doesnt matter NWA made a bigger impact and overall 2 Live Crew probably had the most explicit content.

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

E-40

E-40 is a great lyricist. It's a reason why he's bein the game 20+ years.

No he isnt

And being in the game 20 years doesnt mean you are a legend. There are artists that have been in the industry longer than him and they are not considered legends.

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

Snoop Dogg

Are we really denying Snoops Dogg's legendary status in the Hip-Hop world? Temptations/O'Jays didn't write or produce their music, but they are legends ... are they not??

Yes because his talent along with his music did not make a major impact. The only rapper on that Deathrow label that was any good was 2pac besides that Snoop Dogg is no better than Daz, Kurupt etc the only difference is he made one or two classics with Dre and made better business moves that was able to make his career alot longer otherwise....... his 15 minutes of fame was up over 15 years ago

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

UGK

To a lot of people. Te bought a different style to rap in the early-mid 90s.

To alot of people, Lil Wayne is the greatest rapper ever

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

Bone-Thugs-N-Harmony

Bone-Thugs can be considered Legends but not Snoop or the other artist I listed. Are the legends just because you like them?

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

Nas

Nas a legend too, because you like him??

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

DMX

He's a legend because he's one of your favorites.

No to all 3

When you first asked people to name some legends.... these 3 acts were not in my original list and the reason why I didnt include them (more specifically Nas) is because I just wanted to concentrate mostly on the acts that pioneered and innovated things for Hip Hop because that is what most of what legends have done although I do agree legends dont necessarily have to do this however, what they did do still had a big impact overall.

I am still indecive about DMX being a legend although he is one of my favorites but I would say between Icon/legend for him although he didnt pioneer anything because of his rapping style; that hard grunt style was original and influential and alot of rappers tried to imitate it ex. Ja Rule and he has a pretty good catalogue despite some obvious filler. Nas of course for me is a legend not because he pioneered anything but because out of his era during that period He was if not the most one of the most lyrically superior MC's of his time and he took that whole thing to another level which is why artists like 2pac were threatened by that. Bone Thugs is legendary because they were the first to incorporate singing/harmonies with gangsta rap and they have a handful of classics.

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

Busta Rhymes

Busta has been legendary since his Leader of the New School Days. Busta is one of the Native Tongues. HE released great music in the 90s. Decent albums in the later half of the 2000s.

I always thought Busta was just a fun rapper and never felt anything he did was in legendary territory even in the 90s. His songs are good for the club His a veteran I will give him that.

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

The Fugees

What impact has Mos Def made, none really. He is just a great rapper. Also, the Fugee's made a huge impace on Hip-Hop. The Score was huge in 1995, HUGE. The Love Below/Speakerboxxx huge ... if you get my drift.

The Fugees are one of my favorite artists as well but I wouldnt call them legends because they didnt make a big impact and having commercially successful albums doesnt make you that. Lauryn Hills Miseducation of Lauryn Hill is a classic...... but I wouldnt call her legend... if anything she is more of an icon.

So according to your criteria of what makes a legend, Mos Def isnt a legend to you but acts like , 2 Busta Rhymes are who are all less skill lyric wise and has a weaker catalogue?

Am I missing something?

Didnt you say that what makes a legend is an artist good at his craft, Mos Def is all of the above, His a very talented rapper, lyrics, pushes to be creative and has consistently good albums, so why dont you consider him to be a legend?

It seems to me you are biased on calling your favorite artists legends

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

Master P

Where were you between 1996 and 2000? P had one of the biggest impacts in the history of the game. He was a game changer. He changed how deals were made, how music was put out and marketed.

We talking about hip hop MUSIC/GENRE boo and in that respect he has done 0.

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

Missy Elliot

What's a gimmick rapper, I'm not understanding? Biggie Smalls was a gimmick rapper also.

Gimmick rapper- Gimmick: An innovative stratagem or scheme employed especially to promote a project. But one thing about Missy that I do greatly admire is she doesnt take herself to seriously and always did what she did out of fun and to be creative (and she was good at what she did and I am a fan) but I would not put that on a legendary level.

Biggie Smalls is a gimmick rapper which is why before I edited my list he was not on it and then I put him on it But he had alot of good songs and alot of classics despite of but compared to his rival 2pac... he is no where in that category.

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

Emenim

A lot of artist are not consistent with there music. Did anyone like Prince's Come album? I'm not a huge fan, but you can't deny his legendary status in the game.

You always say that but never give reasons as to WHY

and please STOP comparing these artists to Prince

Eminem was good when he first came out but I stopped taking him seriously when he stopped taking his music seriously and made it more of a joke.

I think during his prime he was a good rapper and I think between Busta, Jay, and all of them his the most talented but he has made to much bad music that has over shadowed what he probably could have became. If Eminem had continued to make good music after the first album he probably would be in iconic category right now.

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

Why are they not legends? They brought something new to the game. They pioneered something. Basically Trap Rap and Crunk Music comes from 3-6.

Three 6 Mafia are a non factor in terms of legendary status but their fun for the club.

Yeah Snoop is a one-album wonder. He's not a legend. He's just not.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Mjcarousal, I love u like a future baby mama . But I stick by my claims, all those artist I named are legends. With Mos, I stated early he was in my next group of artist I consider legends as I didn't include everyone. More include Kid N Play, DJ Jazzy jeff and the Fresh Prince, DJ Quik, 8Ball & MJG, Lil Kim, Mos Def, The Legendary Roots Crew, Mac Dre, DJ Screw. The Hyrogliphics crew, Spice 1 and Common possibly

Sweets I wasnt trying to change your claims I was just trying to understand your arguement because on some points it seemed like you could have elaborated more on why you felt the way you felt instead of saying... so and so is legendary At end of the day, if thats your views, thats cool and with all that being said although I love you as well I still stick to my claims that legend is used to loosely and every artist that makes good music is not going to be a legend, every artist that is commercially successful doesnt make them legendary. I dont think Busta, Missy, E-40, Jay Z and so forth are legends, their mainstream rappers and there good at just being that but not on a legendary level (music wise) but if u think so thats cool I wont love u any less

mjscarousal said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Mjcarousal, I love u like a future baby mama . But I stick by my claims, all those artist I named are legends. With Mos, I stated early he was in my next group of artist I consider legends as I didn't include everyone. More include Kid N Play, DJ Jazzy jeff and the Fresh Prince, DJ Quik, 8Ball & MJG, Lil Kim, Mos Def, The Legendary Roots Crew, Mac Dre, DJ Screw. The Hyrogliphics crew, Spice 1 and Common possibly

Sweets I wasnt trying to change your claims I was just trying to understand your arguement because on some points it seemed like you could have elaborated more on why you felt the way you felt instead of saying... so and so is legendary At end of the day, if thats your views, thats cool and with all that being said although I love you as well I still stick to my claims that legend is used to loosely and every artist that makes good music is not going to be a legend, every artist that is commercially successful doesnt make them legendary. I dont think Busta, Missy, E-40, Jay Z and so forth are legends, their mainstream rappers and there good at just being that but not on a legendary level (music wise) but if u think so thats cool I wont love u any less

The thing is, if you think about it I only lsited maybe 30 artist. That might seem like a lot, but you realize how many artist have released album, how many one hit wonders, ect?

30 artist out of how many Hip-Hoppers since the late 70s? I mean, it's a lot of "famous" artist I didn't even include? No Cypress Hill, no Lost Boys, no Keith Murray, no Ludacris ect. A lot of lesser known artist like AZ, Masta Ace, Kool Keith, Big L, Kingpin Skinny Pinp, ect.

I don't know where to start with this. I'm not gonna argue with your opinions on E-40, Busta or Snoop. However, when you say you don't agree that Too Short came out well before NWA that's ridiculous. It's a fact. Short was out in about '82, well before NWA hit the scene. His impact was more regional because you couldn't market him like 2 Live Crew or even NWA because his raps were rated X as he would say. He was more explicit than 2LC by nature of his style. Luke and them were doing dance/club music with a lot of repetition and choruses minus the details Too Short would give you. Not until Short Dog's In the House did he start cleaning it up a little bit but his best songs would never make it on the radio or video in any version and they weren't songs you'd dance to so you wouldn't hear most of them in a club. Imagine Freaky Tales or Cuss Words on the radio.

mjscarousal said:

You always say that but never give reasons as to WHY

and please STOP comparing these artists to Prince

Eminem was good when he first came out but I stopped taking him seriously when he stopped taking his music seriously and made it more of a joke.

I think during his prime he was a good rapper and I think between Busta, Jay, and all of them his the most talented but he has made to much bad music that has over shadowed what he probably could have became. If Eminem had continued to make good music after the first album he probably would be in iconic category right now.

LittleBLUECorvette said:.

Why are they not legends? They brought something new to the game. They pioneered something. Basically Trap Rap and Crunk Music comes from 3-6.

Three 6 Mafia are a non factor in terms of legendary status but their fun for the club.

[Edited 10/27/12 0:04am]

LittleBLUECorvette said:

mjscarousal said:

Sweets I wasnt trying to change your claims I was just trying to understand your arguement because on some points it seemed like you could have elaborated more on why you felt the way you felt instead of saying... so and so is legendary At end of the day, if thats your views, thats cool and with all that being said although I love you as well I still stick to my claims that legend is used to loosely and every artist that makes good music is not going to be a legend, every artist that is commercially successful doesnt make them legendary. I dont think Busta, Missy, E-40, Jay Z and so forth are legends, their mainstream rappers and there good at just being that but not on a legendary level (music wise) but if u think so thats cool I wont love u any less

The thing is, if you think about it I only lsited maybe 30 artist. That might seem like a lot, but you realize how many artist have released album, how many one hit wonders, ect?

30 artist out of how many Hip-Hoppers since the late 70s? I mean, it's a lot of "famous" artist I didn't even include? No Cypress Hill, no Lost Boys, no Keith Murray, no Ludacris ect. A lot of lesser known artist like AZ, Masta Ace, Kool Keith, Big L, Kingpin Skinny Pinp, ect.

But your reasoning is off, :/ you think that just because those artists were commercially successful that means their legends. Mariah Carey was successful in the 90s, Toni Braxton was successful in the 90s does that make them legends? This isnt a popularity context and the average person who doesnt listen to hip hop is not going to know the artists I listed besides 2pac or Biggie. You dont have to be well known in order to be a legend.

whodknee said:

I don't know where to start with this. I'm not gonna argue with your opinions on E-40, Busta or Snoop. However, when you say you don't agree that Too Short came out well before NWA that's ridiculous. It's a fact. Short was out in about '82, well before NWA hit the scene. His impact was more regional because you couldn't market him like 2 Live Crew or even NWA because his raps were rated X as he would say. He was more explicit than 2LC by nature of his style. Luke and them were doing dance/club music with a lot of repetition and choruses minus the details Too Short would give you. Not until Short Dog's In the House did he start cleaning it up a little bit but his best songs would never make it on the radio or video in any version and they weren't songs you'd dance to so you wouldn't hear most of them in a club. Imagine Freaky Tales or Cuss Words on the radio.

mjscarousal said:

[Edited 10/27/12 0:04am]

Well I did say that he came out in the 80s but I thought LBC was implying he came out in the 70s by implying he came out years and years before NWA when it was just 4 years before NWA came out. NWA was gangsta rap.... it wasnt JUST involved around talking dirty.

mjscarousal said:

whodknee said:

I don't know where to start with this. I'm not gonna argue with your opinions on E-40, Busta or Snoop. However, when you say you don't agree that Too Short came out well before NWA that's ridiculous. It's a fact. Short was out in about '82, well before NWA hit the scene. His impact was more regional because you couldn't market him like 2 Live Crew or even NWA because his raps were rated X as he would say. He was more explicit than 2LC by nature of his style. Luke and them were doing dance/club music with a lot of repetition and choruses minus the details Too Short would give you. Not until Short Dog's In the House did he start cleaning it up a little bit but his best songs would never make it on the radio or video in any version and they weren't songs you'd dance to so you wouldn't hear most of them in a club. Imagine Freaky Tales or Cuss Words on the radio.

[Edited 10/27/12 0:04am]

Well I did say that he came out in the 80s but I thought LBC was implying he came out in the 70s by implying he came out years and years before NWA when it was just 4 years before NWA came out. NWA was gangsta rap.... it wasnt JUST involved around talking dirty.

Right. They were gangsta rap and were pioneers of that sub-genre. Too Short is more akin to 2 Live Crew due to subject matter but their musical styles were very different. NWA might've been influenced by Short in that he was one of the first people pushing the boundaries of what you could say on a record. Also, he was was always rapping about East Oakland. That regional pride seemed to resonate down in LA, hence the Compton explosion. I might be reaching when I say Too Short was the influence there because I don't know what was going through Cube and Dre's heads. I do know his music was felt down there though because you had Snoop and everybody else yelling "beeeotch" after Short and Freddie B started all of that up here in Oakland.

whodknee said:

mjscarousal said:

Well I did say that he came out in the 80s but I thought LBC was implying he came out in the 70s by implying he came out years and years before NWA when it was just 4 years before NWA came out. NWA was gangsta rap.... it wasnt JUST involved around talking dirty.

Right. They were gangsta rap and were pioneers of that sub-genre. Too Short is more akin to 2 Live Crew due to subject matter but their musical styles were very different. NWA might've been influenced by Short in that he was one of the first people pushing the boundaries of what you could say on a record. Also, he was was always rapping about East Oakland. That regional pride seemed to resonate down in LA, hence the Compton explosion. I might be reaching when I say Too Short was the influence there because I don't know what was going through Cube and Dre's heads. I do know his music was felt down there though because you had Snoop and everybody else yelling "beeeotch" after Short and Freddie B started all of that up here in Oakland.

Ok, thanks for the enlightment, I guess you & LBC have a point

[Edited 10/28/12 12:28pm]