I guess the issue that I have with Stevie's post 70's material, is that it became so watered down, with synths and sounds, and technology overall, that it took away from the actual composition.

shorttrini said:

I guess the issue that I have with Stevie's post 70's material, is that it became so watered down, with synths and sounds, and technology overall, that it took away from the actual composition.

yeah, a lot like Emancipation, which also has really great arrangements, but difficult to appreciate for their sound

Not overall, but I think 'Free' is one of his best songs ever.

Wow, I'm a little surprised that Characters is getting so much love. A masterpiece should be the very best work of an artist, by that standard is Characters a masterpiece? For me it is very obviously inferior to his classic work circa 1972-1982 and in no way does it represent Stevie Wonder at his very best. Too many dated synths and drum machines really mar much of his '80s work.

rialb said:

yes

A great album from begin'n to end

Secret Life of Plants was his last masterpiece in my opinion but he's had quite a few good songs since then. The word "masterpiece" is thrown around too often so I'm probably pushing it myself. Characters is maybe a good album but it's no masterpiece.

shorttrini said:

Sosgemini,

I am going to take the heat off of you and place it on my by saying the following. In my humble opinion, Stevie's last masterpiece was "Songs In The Key Of Life". In my opinion, he has not made a good album since then. SITKOL, and all of his albums prior to that, were all masterpieces, because they have all stood the test of time. In my opinion, nothing after that is worth getting into.

I agree with everything you said except for THAT^ last part.

Hotter Than July was THE last Stevie Wonder album worth buying. Was it a masterpieece on the same level as Songs In The Key Of Life? Absolute not! But it is still a pretty good album nonetheless.

TonyVanDam said:

shorttrini said:

Sosgemini,

I am going to take the heat off of you and place it on my by saying the following. In my humble opinion, Stevie's last masterpiece was "Songs In The Key Of Life". In my opinion, he has not made a good album since then. SITKOL, and all of his albums prior to that, were all masterpieces, because they have all stood the test of time. In my opinion, nothing after that is worth getting into.

I agree with everything you said except for THAT^ last part.

Hotter Than July was THE last Stevie Wonder album worth buying. Was it a masterpieece on the same level as Songs In The Key Of Life? Absolute not! But it is still a pretty good album nonetheless.

That's the one album that had to grow on me. I hated it at first,(with the exception of "All I Do"). Since then it has become my second favorite album of his. I guess my reason for me not liking it at first was the fact that, to me, the songs all sounded like one long song....they all sounded the same.

AlexdeParis said:

rialb said:

Wow, I'm a little surprised that Characters is getting so much love. A masterpiece should be the very best work of an artist, by that standard is Characters a masterpiece? For me it is very obviously inferior to his classic work circa 1972-1982 and in no way does it represent Stevie Wonder at his very best. Too many dated synths and drum machines really mar much of his '80s work.

Eh, I'd say Music of My Mind is clearly inferior to Innervisions, but that doesn't take away from its brilliance.

Well, I wouldn't call Music of My Mind a masterpiece either. I wouldn't necessarily say that an artist can only have one album that can be called a masterpiece but I think it's really stretching it to claim that every album that Stevie did after 1971 is a masterpiece. As I said, a masterpiece should be the very best of an artists work and I hardly think that an album like Characters qualifies.

whodknee said:

Secret Life of Plants was his last masterpiece in my opinion but he's had quite a few good songs since then. The word "masterpiece" is thrown around too often so I'm probably pushing it myself. Characters is maybe a good album but it's no masterpiece.

Yes it is!

My :cent: :cent: =

SITKOL: Last Masterpiece

HTJ: Last strong/worthy studio album

Part-Time Lover + Overjoyed: last great singles

For Your Love: good single for the '90s

after that Jamiroquai basically took over, really

ATTL: decent/enjoyable "comeback"

whodknee said:

Secret Life of Plants was his last masterpiece in my opinion but he's had quite a few good songs since then. The word "masterpiece" is thrown around too often so I'm probably pushing it myself. Characters is maybe a good album but it's no masterpiece.

rialb said:

AlexdeParis said:

rialb said: Eh, I'd say Music of My Mind is clearly inferior to Innervisions, but that doesn't take away from its brilliance.

Well, I wouldn't call Music of My Mind a masterpiece either. I wouldn't necessarily say that an artist can only have one album that can be called a masterpiece but I think it's really stretching it to claim that every album that Stevie did after 1971 is a masterpiece. As I said, a masterpiece should be the very best of an artists work and I hardly think that an album like Characters qualifies.

Well, I think this discussion is getting a little too hung up on the word "masterpiece." One definition does define it as "an artist's or craftmen's best piece of work" (and I doubt we'd even get a consensus on that WRT Stevie), but another defines it as "a work of outstanding artistry, skill, or workmanship." While I'm (almost) sure we all agree Characters isn't anywhere near the former, the real debate is whether it qualifies as the latter.

Independent of what came before or after, IMO Characters is a fantastic album that I enjoy hearing. If forced to choose, I'd only consider it his 9th-best album, but that doesn't mean I don't love it. I don't have a problem with any of the songs (yes, I even like "Get It") and many of them are exceptional. The synths don't bother me like they do a lot of people.

AlexdeParis said:

rialb said:

Well, I wouldn't call Music of My Mind a masterpiece either. I wouldn't necessarily say that an artist can only have one album that can be called a masterpiece but I think it's really stretching it to claim that every album that Stevie did after 1971 is a masterpiece. As I said, a masterpiece should be the very best of an artists work and I hardly think that an album like Characters qualifies.

Well, I think this discussion is getting a little too hung up on the word "masterpiece." One definition does define it as "an artist's or craftmen's best piece of work" (and I doubt we'd even get a consensus on that WRT Stevie), but another defines it as "a work of outstanding artistry, skill, or workmanship." While I'm (almost) sure we all agree Characters isn't anywhere near the former, the real debate is whether it qualifies as the latter.

Independent of what came before or after, IMO Characters is a fantastic album that I enjoy hearing. If forced to choose, I'd only consider it his 9th-best album, but that doesn't mean I don't love it. I don't have a problem with any of the songs (yes, I even like "Get It") and many of them are exceptional. The synths don't bother me like they do a lot of people.

Well, it is right there in the title of this thread.

No, I see your point. I would still argue that Characters does not meet either of your definitions of "masterpiece" but of course you may have a completely different, and equally valid, opinion.

If the question was "is Characters Stevie's last great album" then, while I would personally say "no," I could see why people might say "yes." I just think that we should reserve the word masterpiece to the very best work of any given artist. Ideally I think it should be applied to an artists single best work, maybe best two or three works, but when you go any higher than that I think you are devaluing the word.

rialb said:

AlexdeParis said:

Well, I think this discussion is getting a little too hung up on the word "masterpiece." One definition does define it as "an artist's or craftmen's best piece of work" (and I doubt we'd even get a consensus on that WRT Stevie), but another defines it as "a work of outstanding artistry, skill, or workmanship." While I'm (almost) sure we all agree Characters isn't anywhere near the former, the real debate is whether it qualifies as the latter.

Independent of what came before or after, IMO Characters is a fantastic album that I enjoy hearing. If forced to choose, I'd only consider it his 9th-best album, but that doesn't mean I don't love it. I don't have a problem with any of the songs (yes, I even like "Get It") and many of them are exceptional. The synths don't bother me like they do a lot of people.

Well, it is right there in the title of this thread.

No, I see your point. I would still argue that Characters does not meet either of your definitions of "masterpiece" but of course you may have a completely different, and equally valid, opinion.

If the question was "is Characters Stevie's last great album" then, while I would personally say "no," I could see why people might say "yes." I just think that we should reserve the word masterpiece to the very best work of any given artist. Ideally I think it should be applied to an artists single best work, maybe best two or three works, but when you go any higher than that I think you are devaluing the word.

I feel you. I even agree to an extent. I will say that I consider Stevie to be a rare exception, because his '70s period is the single greatest stretch in music history to my ears. I mean, if you only considered three of his albums worthy of the word "masterpiece," which ones would you pick? I absolutely adore Talking Book, but I think FFF is clearly better, not to mention Innervisions and SITKOL. But they're all independently flawless AFAIC.

I don't know about Stevie's Masterpiece, but here are some from other acts.

MickyDolenz said:

I don't know about Stevie's Masterpiece, but here are some from other acts.

Mass Production as good as they were, some of their album covers were cheesy.

In A City Groove was the cheesiest particularly on the back cover where all 20

members were sitting in a movie theater eating popcorn.

BT11 said:

Not overall, but I think 'Free' is one of his best songs ever.

YES! It is! I didn't know it was on this album though. I fucking LOVE that song!

MickyDolenz said:

I don't know about Stevie's Masterpiece, but here are some from other acts.

so did they mis-spell the title on the album cover or on the record label? (I get the play on words, but they spell it two different ways)

NDRU said:

MickyDolenz said:

I don't know about Stevie's Masterpiece, but here are some from other acts.

so did they mis-spell the title on the album cover or on the record label? (I get the play on words, but they spell it two different ways)

That's two different groups - Mass Production & Atlantic Starr.

MickyDolenz said:

NDRU said:

so did they mis-spell the title on the album cover or on the record label? (I get the play on words, but they spell it two different ways)

That's two different groups - Mass Production & Atlantic Starr.

ahh! I guess that is why we're supposed to actually read stuff!

I see there are quite a few people on this thread who can't think for themselves and swallow the whole bullshit notion that Hotter Than July was the last decent Stevie album.

Bothered to listen to Jungle Fever? Some classics on there...Stevie does New Jack Swing and nails it ("Gotta Have You"/"Each Other's Throats") and some amazing ballads ("These Three Words" and probably one of his Top 5 all time slow songs, "Make Sure You're Sure").

"A Time to Love" had some great stuff on there too. It's all a bit cliched to knock the man's output from the 80s onwards. Some people need to educate themselves badly.

And for what it's worth, "Where You're Coming From" never gets any credit. Much better than "Music Of My Mind" and much more interesting, seeing him grow up musically. Again, just ignorant people not engaging their ears...

Mong said:

I see there are quite a few people on this thread who can't think for themselves and swallow the whole bullshit notion that Hotter Than July was the last decent Stevie album.

Bothered to listen to Jungle Fever? Some classics on there...Stevie does New Jack Swing and nails it ("Gotta Have You"/"Each Other's Throats") and some amazing ballads ("These Three Words" and probably one of his Top 5 all time slow songs, "Make Sure You're Sure").

"A Time to Love" had some great stuff on there too. It's all a bit cliched to knock the man's output from the 80s onwards. Some people need to educate themselves badly.

And for what it's worth, "Where You're Coming From" never gets any credit. Much better than "Music Of My Mind" and much more interesting, seeing him grow up musically. Again, just ignorant people not engaging their ears...

Yikes, it's fine that you enjoy Stevie's later albums but just because some of us don't doesn't mean that we "can't think for ourselves" or that we "need to educate ourselves badly." No need to get hostile just because there are opinions that differ from your own.

I agree that Hotter Than July was not his last decent album. His last decent album was Original Musiquarium. Sure, technically it's a greatest hits disc but there's almost enough new material on there to count as a new album.

If you are such a fan of the album you would know that it's title is Where I'm Coming From not Where You're Coming From. Here's where I kind of agree with you. It is certainly a worthwhile album and I think the fact that it doesn't get much credit is partially due to the fact that it is semi scarce. However, I have to disagree with you when you say it is superior to Music of My Mind. For me Where I'm Coming From is Stevie stretching himself and finding his voice but he wasn't quite there yet. Musically the album sounds halfway between his earlier stuff and his classic '70s albums. To my ears it's a fairly large jump from Where I'm Coming From to Music of My Mind.

AlexdeParis said:

Count me in the group that prefers Where I'm Coming From over Music of My Mind. It's a crying shame WICF isn't widely available on CD.

Where I'm Coming From is a curious album- I like it, but I can see why people prefer "Music of My Mind". Where I'm Coming From sounds like Stevie is mimicing his influences, especially the more Beatlesque stuff on the album. Yeah, he's stretching himself here, but it wasn't the album that defined the style of music he would do for the rest of his career.

Mong said:

I see there are quite a few people on this thread who can't think for themselves and swallow the whole bullshit notion that Hotter Than July was the last decent Stevie album.

Bothered to listen to Jungle Fever? Some classics on there...Stevie does New Jack Swing and nails it ("Gotta Have You"/"Each Other's Throats") and some amazing ballads ("These Three Words" and probably one of his Top 5 all time slow songs, "Make Sure You're Sure").

"A Time to Love" had some great stuff on there too. It's all a bit cliched to knock the man's output from the 80s onwards. Some people need to educate themselves badly.

And for what it's worth, "Where You're Coming From" never gets any credit. Much better than "Music Of My Mind" and much more interesting, seeing him grow up musically. Again, just ignorant people not engaging their ears...

Hey maike a lot of Stevie's post 80's material, but I think what people are saying Stevie hasn't made a complete album statement as interesting as Talking Book or Innervisions, since Hotter than July. He's come close, and Jungle Fever would be it, but I feel even on that album the weak material was more like "filler" than "Oh wow, thats quite genius (see "I Am Sailing")

And there's one thing I think we can all agree on, Stevie has been playing it safe ever since Secret Life of Plants was critically panned. I mean we all know the man can go places with music, but he hasn't been daring since then- in fact, I don't know if he will make new music as a vechile for his statements nowadays than explore new ground.

That being said, I think most artist would love Stevies post 80's material to have as their own, because it is pretty good.

CoolTarik1 said:

Mong said:

I see there are quite a few people on this thread who can't think for themselves and swallow the whole bullshit notion that Hotter Than July was the last decent Stevie album.

Bothered to listen to Jungle Fever? Some classics on there...Stevie does New Jack Swing and nails it ("Gotta Have You"/"Each Other's Throats") and some amazing ballads ("These Three Words" and probably one of his Top 5 all time slow songs, "Make Sure You're Sure").

"A Time to Love" had some great stuff on there too. It's all a bit cliched to knock the man's output from the 80s onwards. Some people need to educate themselves badly.

And for what it's worth, "Where You're Coming From" never gets any credit. Much better than "Music Of My Mind" and much more interesting, seeing him grow up musically. Again, just ignorant people not engaging their ears...

Hey maike a lot of Stevie's post 80's material, but I think what people are saying Stevie hasn't made a complete album statement as interesting as Talking Book or Innervisions, since Hotter than July. He's come close, and Jungle Fever would be it, but I feel even on that album the weak material was more like "filler" than "Oh wow, thats quite genius (see "I Am Sailing")

And there's one thing I think we can all agree on, Stevie has been playing it safe ever since Secret Life of Plants was critically panned. I mean we all know the man can go places with music, but he hasn't been daring since then- in fact, I don't know if he will make new music as a vechile for his statements nowadays than explore new ground.

That being said, I think most artist would love Stevies post 80's material to have as their own, because it is pretty good.

Especially the part about him, playing it safe.

Yep "Where I'm Coming From" is an underrated Stevie album. I think it's a more 'Motown' sound type album whilst 'Music of My Mind' is more of a Stevie production, where he experimented more by using Synth's, talkbox etc. and that is probably why 'Where I'm Coming From' is overlooked when discussing Stevie's music.

thetimefan said:

Yep "Where I'm Coming From" is an underrated Stevie album. I think it's a more 'Motown' sound type album whilst 'Music of My Mind' is more of a Stevie production, where he experimented more by using Synth's, talkbox etc. and that is probably why 'Where I'm Coming From' is overlooked when discussing Stevie's music.

Technically I see Where I'm Coming From as his real breakthrough from Motown. Sure Music of My Mind was entirely separate from what would be consider the Motown sound but WICF was the real breakthrough to me and it should be allowed to be so. His last "Motown album" was Signed, Sealed & Delivered.