How famous and well known was Rick James in the 80s . I know he wasn 't as big ( famous ) as Michael Jackson but was heas famous as James Brown or Prince or anyone like that ?

He was very famous...not MJ famous...but famous nonetheless!

Hit positions from Wikkipedia:

i only know him from Loosey's rap, maybe he was more famous in the US, but in Europe, he really wasn't big. Those chart positions aren't really impressive either.

He was R&B famous. If you understand that, then you understand his popularity.

Regardless of how "popular" he was or wasn't (depending on your perspective), there's no denying that he was a helluva musician and made some great music.

robertlove said:

i only know him from Loosey's rap, maybe he was more famous in the US, but in Europe, he really wasn't big. Those chart positions aren't really impressive either.

^My thoughts exactly; nowadays, I'm sure that any folk/gal born in Europe/Asia/Africa (or even the USA) since 1990 doesn't know absolutely nothing about Rick...

could you say the same about Prince?

Rick James is one of the biggest soul/r'n'b/funk acts ever, period, no matter how "unimpressive" his chart action may appear to some. I suggest you take a listen to his Anthology 2cd for some fine examples of what made him one of the greats, not only as a singer and musician, but also as a songwriter and producer for others.

Here's a fine example of one of his classics:

and...

and...

[Edited 11/6/10 5:35am]

whitesockedfunk said:

Rick James is one of the biggest soul/r'n'b/funk acts ever, period, no matter how "unimpressive" his chart action may appear to some. I suggest you take a listen to his Anthology 2cd for some fine examples of what made him one of the greats, not only as a singer and musician, but also as a songwriter and producer for others.

Here's a fine example of one of his classics:

and...

and...

[Edited 11/6/10 5:35am]

i understand you really like the guy and his music, but the question is if Rick James was extremely famous? How can you say he is one of the biggest acts in soul/r'n'b/funk acts ever, when he didn't even have 1 top 10 hit in the US? Not even 1 top 30 hit in the Uk, and these are the markets where he was the most famous.

Don't you think people like Prince, MJ and Janet are some of the biggest r'n'b acts ever?

I;m only talking about being famous here

After Disco died off in the USA around 1979, black performers were rarely played on Top 40 pop radio and that was the time of Rick's most popular period. He was popular on R&B radio. Rick complained about not getting on MTV, and CBS Records had to threaten to remove all of their other acts like Journey & Bruce Springsteen, if MTV didn't show Michael Jackson's videos.

robertlove said:

i understand you really like the guy and his music, but the question is if Rick James was extremely famous? How can you say he is one of the biggest acts in soul/r'n'b/funk acts ever, when he didn't even have 1 top 10 hit in the US? Not even 1 top 30 hit in the Uk, and these are the markets where he was the most famous.

Don't you think people like Prince, MJ and Janet are some of the biggest r'n'b acts ever?

I;m only talking about being famous here

The way "fame" is "distributed" these days is distinctly different from how it was in the 80s. You seem to be trying to judge the past in present day terms instead of in cultural retrospect. Mtv was NOT a major player during Rick's heyday. As a matter of fact, they didn't exist through a good portion of it.

You also can't look at it without understanding the racial divide on the radio. Black folks listened to their stations; white folk listened to theirs. Sometimes they crossed over; sometimes not. There was no Clear Clannel playing the same 10-15 songs over and over.

So, was he popular with black folks? YES. In the 80s, charts didn't mean as much as they do now because the record industry wasn't as "formatted" and controlled as it is today. What was bumpin' in the clubs was NOT on Soul Train yet. Soul Train was always late compared to what was going on. Whenever Rick dropped an album, it was hot on the streets. Street Songs was probably his highest point in terms of popularity. That's when you saw people dressing "like Rick James", rocking braids and boots. Popularity and cultural impact were less controlled and wasn't corporate sponsored like it is now. Now, when an artist drops that is corporate sponsored, "magically", everything they are wearing is on sale at The GAP, Hot Topic, Old Navy, etc. Corporate sponsored artists have much more access and under the Clear Channel umbrella, get much more push, thereby making them much more popular by default.

In the 80s, "pop" artists were almost always more popular than R&B artists and people like Lionel Ritchie sold more records and charted better because they crossed over into the mainstream white audience. While white folks were partying to Lionel, Black folks were bumpin' Rick.

The real question is "what does it matter?"

I'd say Rick had more cultural impact on R&B than Lionel Ritchie did but I bet Lionel sold more records.

Why is "popularity" important?

What was the point of this thread? To show how little American black music made it over to the UK in the 80s? R&B is an American BLACK artform. PERIOD. It matters less where it travelled outside of the U.S. because its main force and source was right here and before corporate America captured the music industry, it was significant and Rick was one of the artists who made it great.

[Edited 11/6/10 8:50am]

BlaqueKnight said:

robertlove said:

i understand you really like the guy and his music, but the question is if Rick James was extremely famous? How can you say he is one of the biggest acts in soul/r'n'b/funk acts ever, when he didn't even have 1 top 10 hit in the US? Not even 1 top 30 hit in the Uk, and these are the markets where he was the most famous.

Don't you think people like Prince, MJ and Janet are some of the biggest r'n'b acts ever?

I;m only talking about being famous here

The way "fame" is "distributed" these days is distinctly different from how it was in the 80s. You seem to be trying to judge the past in present day terms instead of in cultural retrospect. Mtv was NOT a major player during Rick's heyday. As a matter of fact, they didn't exist through a good portion of it.

You also can't look at it without understanding the racial divide on the radio. Black folks listened to their stations; white folk listened to theirs. Sometimes they crossed over; sometimes not. There was no Clear Clannel playing the same 10-15 songs over and over.

So, was he popular with black folks? YES. In the 80s, charts didn't mean as much as they do now because the record industry wasn't as "formatted" and controlled as it is today. What was bumpin' in the clubs was NOT on Soul Train yet. Soul Train was always late compared to what was going on. Whenever Rick dropped an album, it was hot on the streets. Street Songs was probably his highest point in terms of popularity. That's when you saw people dressing "like Rick James", rocking braids and boots. Popularity and cultural impact were less controlled and wasn't corporate sponsored like it is now. Now, when an artist drops that is corporate sponsored, "magically", everything they are wearing is on sale at The GAP, Hot Topic, Old Navy, etc. Corporate sponsored artists have much more access and under the Clear Channel umbrella, get much more push, thereby making them much more popular by default.

In the 80s, "pop" artists were almost always more popular than R&B artists and people like Lionel Ritchie sold more records and charted better because they crossed over into the mainstream white audience. While white folks were partying to Lionel, Black folks were bumpin' Rick.

The real question is "what does it matter?"

I'd say Rick had more cultural impact on R&B than Lionel Ritchie did but I bet Lionel sold more records.

Why is "popularity" important?

What was the point of this thread? To show how little American black music made it over to the UK in the 80s? R&B is an American BLACK artform. PERIOD. It matters less where it travelled outside of the U.S. because its main force and source was right here and before corporate America captured the music industry, it was significant and Rick was one of the artists who made it great.

[Edited 11/6/10 8:50am]

Well said, BK.

And to further drive the point about Rick home, if he Stone City came to town...and you skipped the show......you missed a MAJOR throwdown. Rick James was one of the most exciting & vital live acts of any era in black music.

the thing is that now, alot of people wont remember Rick, most are going to remember him from the Chappelle show skit, but, thats the way things are going now, music for the most part is losing its PAST, because the times are becoming so seperated, the name of Rick James is remembered for now but will soon be forgotten by the next generation, and then someone will pick up somewhere etc... As far as popularity in the 80's he was big, despite the charts, that was not a reflective thing, PEOPLE dont get that charts where not what they are now, take Rick's duet "EBONY EYES" now look at its peak of 43 on pop and 22 RB, not big hits in todays standards at all, actually this wouldnt be considered a hit now, but it was, it got alot of play and was known. You had alot of shows back then to highlight music weekly, you had SOlid Gold and Friday Night videos and Hot tracks and mtv was still coming into its own, but it didnt play Rick for the most part. But on regular TV you had those shows, so you had a venue, today you dont, today you dont even a video station. So back when MTV was breaking in and even into the later 80's there was non stop videos and even LOOKING BACK so the viewer got to see a videos from years ago, not have the current 5 videos played 24/7. Back then was a totally different mindset and peeps back then understood it, todays generation has no clue how it was done.

BlaqueKnight said:

robertlove said:

i understand you really like the guy and his music, but the question is if Rick James was extremely famous? How can you say he is one of the biggest acts in soul/r'n'b/funk acts ever, when he didn't even have 1 top 10 hit in the US? Not even 1 top 30 hit in the Uk, and these are the markets where he was the most famous.

Don't you think people like Prince, MJ and Janet are some of the biggest r'n'b acts ever?

I;m only talking about being famous here

The way "fame" is "distributed" these days is distinctly different from how it was in the 80s. You seem to be trying to judge the past in present day terms instead of in cultural retrospect. Mtv was NOT a major player during Rick's heyday. As a matter of fact, they didn't exist through a good portion of it.

You also can't look at it without understanding the racial divide on the radio. Black folks listened to their stations; white folk listened to theirs. Sometimes they crossed over; sometimes not. There was no Clear Clannel playing the same 10-15 songs over and over.

So, was he popular with black folks? YES. In the 80s, charts didn't mean as much as they do now because the record industry wasn't as "formatted" and controlled as it is today. What was bumpin' in the clubs was NOT on Soul Train yet. Soul Train was always late compared to what was going on. Whenever Rick dropped an album, it was hot on the streets. Street Songs was probably his highest point in terms of popularity. That's when you saw people dressing "like Rick James", rocking braids and boots. Popularity and cultural impact were less controlled and wasn't corporate sponsored like it is now. Now, when an artist drops that is corporate sponsored, "magically", everything they are wearing is on sale at The GAP, Hot Topic, Old Navy, etc. Corporate sponsored artists have much more access and under the Clear Channel umbrella, get much more push, thereby making them much more popular by default.

In the 80s, "pop" artists were almost always more popular than R&B artists and people like Lionel Ritchie sold more records and charted better because they crossed over into the mainstream white audience. While white folks were partying to Lionel, Black folks were bumpin' Rick.

The real question is "what does it matter?"

I'd say Rick had more cultural impact on R&B than Lionel Ritchie did but I bet Lionel sold more records.

Why is "popularity" important?

What was the point of this thread? To show how little American black music made it over to the UK in the 80s? R&B is an American BLACK artform. PERIOD. It matters less where it travelled outside of the U.S. because its main force and source was right here and before corporate America captured the music industry, it was significant and Rick was one of the artists who made it great.

[Edited 11/6/10 8:50am]

You're putting words in the mouth of the original poster.

Why do you make this thread about black music, when the original poster asked a question about Rick James? Where did he say, "was black music extremely popular?"

For me, extremely (!) famous is somebody who is known by everybody worldwide, not only a certain group, right? And Rick James just wasn't. So he wasn't extremely famous.

Has nothing to do with black music being popular in the UK. Michael Jackson was black, wasn't he? And he was huge in the UK. Prince was huge. Rick James wasn't.

robertlove said:

BlaqueKnight said:

The way "fame" is "distributed" these days is distinctly different from how it was in the 80s. You seem to be trying to judge the past in present day terms instead of in cultural retrospect. Mtv was NOT a major player during Rick's heyday. As a matter of fact, they didn't exist through a good portion of it.

You also can't look at it without understanding the racial divide on the radio. Black folks listened to their stations; white folk listened to theirs. Sometimes they crossed over; sometimes not. There was no Clear Clannel playing the same 10-15 songs over and over.

So, was he popular with black folks? YES. In the 80s, charts didn't mean as much as they do now because the record industry wasn't as "formatted" and controlled as it is today. What was bumpin' in the clubs was NOT on Soul Train yet. Soul Train was always late compared to what was going on. Whenever Rick dropped an album, it was hot on the streets. Street Songs was probably his highest point in terms of popularity. That's when you saw people dressing "like Rick James", rocking braids and boots. Popularity and cultural impact were less controlled and wasn't corporate sponsored like it is now. Now, when an artist drops that is corporate sponsored, "magically", everything they are wearing is on sale at The GAP, Hot Topic, Old Navy, etc. Corporate sponsored artists have much more access and under the Clear Channel umbrella, get much more push, thereby making them much more popular by default.

In the 80s, "pop" artists were almost always more popular than R&B artists and people like Lionel Ritchie sold more records and charted better because they crossed over into the mainstream white audience. While white folks were partying to Lionel, Black folks were bumpin' Rick.

The real question is "what does it matter?"

I'd say Rick had more cultural impact on R&B than Lionel Ritchie did but I bet Lionel sold more records.

Why is "popularity" important?

What was the point of this thread? To show how little American black music made it over to the UK in the 80s? R&B is an American BLACK artform. PERIOD. It matters less where it travelled outside of the U.S. because its main force and source was right here and before corporate America captured the music industry, it was significant and Rick was one of the artists who made it great.

[Edited 11/6/10 8:50am]

You're putting words in the mouth of the original poster.

Why do you make this thread about black music, when the original poster asked a question about Rick James? Where did he say, "was black music extremely popular?"

For me, extremely (!) famous is somebody who is known by everybody worldwide, not only a certain group, right? And Rick James just wasn't. So he wasn't extremely famous.

Has nothing to do with black music being popular in the UK. Michael Jackson was black, wasn't he? And he was huge in the UK. Prince was huge. Rick James wasn't.

but i think the term famous is difficult to define in these times for people to understand, famous then to what today is, is light years different, Rick Springfield was extremely famous back then he had 17 top 40 hits in a row between 1980-1985 now tell that to people and they see Rick was big? well he was. But anyone todaywould look at his numbers and not see anything BIG, he had 4 top 10 hits and the rest were usually peaking in the 20's but he was consistently getting that hit single, which today wouldnt be even heard of.

As for known worldwide heres a test, who's the bigger band Duran Duran or a-ha? well 99% of america would say Duran Duran, but a-ha is bigger on a worldwide basis than Duran, a-ha despite not having US chart hits after their first two, sold more in other countries than most of their peers with the exception of U2, but people will hear the two names and not realize the world picture. Shit a-ha is bigger than Depeche Mode The cure etc...when you look at the markets they can go into where as others mentioned struggle.

Hmm, this poster has seemed to ask so many weird questions but I'll answer, no not so famous where he was known by everybody in the planet.

But he was popular in the US mainly with us (black audiences). He did make an attempt to reach pop audiences with Street Songs and in a way he did because pop audiences only know him from music of that album rather than the albums before and after it.

Rick's entrance came at a good time for many who was looking for a fresh artist though, even if that audience was so-called "limited".

Rick DID pack in stadiums during his heyday though so to answer your question, I think for the time he was actually making hits, yeah he was real popular. Maybe not as popular as his contemporaries but he was popular nonetheless.

I think had Motown thought of promoting music videos during his heyday and Rick wasn't so tore up, he'd be world famous today. Then again, people have a good point about what was deemed famous in the 1980s compared to now. It's two different kind of realms.

So to really answer your question? Yes he was "extremely popular".

[Edited 11/6/10 12:06pm]

Timmy84 said:

Hmm, this poster has seemed to answer so many weird questions but I'll answer, no not so famous where he was known by everybody in the planet.

But he was popular in the US R&B field. He did make an attempt to reach pop audiences with Street Songs and in a way he did because pop audiences only know him from music of that album rather than the albums before and after it.

Rick's entrance came at a good time for many who was looking for a fresh artist though, even if that audience was so-called "limited".

Rick DID pack in stadiums during his heyday though so to answer your question, I think for the time he was actually making hits, yeah he was real popular. Maybe not as popular as his contemporaries but he was popular nonetheless.

put it this way, he was like Prince was, had a loyal following, difference was that Prince began to blow up with mtv on 1999 and then Purple Rain took over, had Prince not had Purple Rain everything after would have been irrelevant

in 1981 rick james was the hottest artist in the business. he was selling records and he was selling out big arenas. he was on all the magazine covers. he was on all the talk shows.HE WAS GETTING PAID. YES HE WAS BIGGER THAN PRINCE.

lastdecember said:

Timmy84 said:

Hmm, this poster has seemed to answer so many weird questions but I'll answer, no not so famous where he was known by everybody in the planet.

But he was popular in the US R&B field. He did make an attempt to reach pop audiences with Street Songs and in a way he did because pop audiences only know him from music of that album rather than the albums before and after it.

Rick's entrance came at a good time for many who was looking for a fresh artist though, even if that audience was so-called "limited".

Rick DID pack in stadiums during his heyday though so to answer your question, I think for the time he was actually making hits, yeah he was real popular. Maybe not as popular as his contemporaries but he was popular nonetheless.

put it this way, he was like Prince was, had a loyal following, difference was that Prince began to blow up with mtv on 1999 and then Purple Rain took over, had Prince not had Purple Rain everything after would have been irrelevant

Chalk it up to someone being at the right place at the right time. It is quite a shame though because I think Rick did have the same potential to reach higher than he already was.

If you went to a club, school dance, wedding, or roller skating rink in early 80's you definitely heard at least one Rick James song. Super Freak was a huge hit, but, yes, most of his exposure was on R&B radio.

I would say NO. he was popular but he was not a major Icon. Never at the level of Prince or Maddona.

Is it safe to say between 80 and 85, only Mike was more famous on the RnB side?

Prince didn't become bigger thn Rick until at least 83' am I correct? Lionel Richie and Stevie are the only other one right?

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Is it safe to say between 80 and 85, only Mike was more famous on the RnB side?

Prince didn't become bigger thn Rick until at least 83' am I correct? Lionel Richie and Stevie are the only other one right?

You would be right.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Is it safe to say between 80 and 85, only Mike was more famous on the RnB side?

Prince didn't become bigger thn Rick until at least 83' am I correct? Lionel Richie and Stevie are the only other one right?

other than MJ pretty much. (but eddie murphy had his hit too!)

OnlyNDaUsa said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Is it safe to say between 80 and 85, only Mike was more famous on the RnB side?

Prince didn't become bigger thn Rick until at least 83' am I correct? Lionel Richie and Stevie are the only other one right?

other than MJ pretty much. (but eddie murphy had his hit too!)

which Rick James produced.

Stax said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

other than MJ pretty much. (but eddie murphy had his hit too!)

which Rick James produced.

oh i know, and sang back up for "diamonds on your fingers" and appeared in the video for (shown iirc working the boards as eddie recorded the vocals! )

speaking of Eddie i always thought the photo of prince on PRINCE looked a bit like Eddie did a few years later.

For many years I knew ONLY Superfreak and didn't know anybody else who listened to him regularly. Then, for a while, I distinctly remember knowing more about his legal problems than his music. But as I got older and started buying a lot of cheap used records, including his, I realized I'd probably heard more of his songs than I thought I had (Give It To Me Baby, for sure). I just didn't know they were him at the time. These days I agree with what others have said, not a lot of knowledge/interest from the younger crowd.

As far as what he super famous icon status guy, I'd say no. But there's not a lot of other people who put out that many albums and got that much airplay amongst the urban artists of the time. He definitely had an audience.

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Is it safe to say between 80 and 85, only Mike was more famous on the RnB side?

Prince didn't become bigger thn Rick until at least 83' am I correct? Lionel Richie and Stevie are the only other one right?

You would be right.

I hadn't really thought about it like that, but that's what I was getting at, basically. Not having number one albums or singles shouldn't take away from the amount of airplay he got back then. It would be interesting to see a radio spins total for the years 80-85. I betcha he's pretty far up there.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Is it safe to say between 80 and 85, only Mike was more famous on the RnB side?

Prince didn't become bigger thn Rick until at least 83' am I correct? Lionel Richie and Stevie are the only other one right?

I'd say Luther Vandross was more popular. Some of the singles from Thriller didn't chart that high on the R&B side. Most of Mike's sales were from the crossover audience. That's why he is called the 'King Of Pop'. He couldn't have sold that much only with a black R&B audience. Same for Lionel Richie, Prince, Billy Ocean, Whitney Houston, Janet Jackson, & Tina Turner.

robertlove said:

BlaqueKnight said:

The way "fame" is "distributed" these days is distinctly different from how it was in the 80s. You seem to be trying to judge the past in present day terms instead of in cultural retrospect. Mtv was NOT a major player during Rick's heyday. As a matter of fact, they didn't exist through a good portion of it.

You also can't look at it without understanding the racial divide on the radio. Black folks listened to their stations; white folk listened to theirs. Sometimes they crossed over; sometimes not. There was no Clear Clannel playing the same 10-15 songs over and over.

So, was he popular with black folks? YES. In the 80s, charts didn't mean as much as they do now because the record industry wasn't as "formatted" and controlled as it is today. What was bumpin' in the clubs was NOT on Soul Train yet. Soul Train was always late compared to what was going on. Whenever Rick dropped an album, it was hot on the streets. Street Songs was probably his highest point in terms of popularity. That's when you saw people dressing "like Rick James", rocking braids and boots. Popularity and cultural impact were less controlled and wasn't corporate sponsored like it is now. Now, when an artist drops that is corporate sponsored, "magically", everything they are wearing is on sale at The GAP, Hot Topic, Old Navy, etc. Corporate sponsored artists have much more access and under the Clear Channel umbrella, get much more push, thereby making them much more popular by default.

In the 80s, "pop" artists were almost always more popular than R&B artists and people like Lionel Ritchie sold more records and charted better because they crossed over into the mainstream white audience. While white folks were partying to Lionel, Black folks were bumpin' Rick.

The real question is "what does it matter?"

I'd say Rick had more cultural impact on R&B than Lionel Ritchie did but I bet Lionel sold more records.

Why is "popularity" important?

What was the point of this thread? To show how little American black music made it over to the UK in the 80s? R&B is an American BLACK artform. PERIOD. It matters less where it travelled outside of the U.S. because its main force and source was right here and before corporate America captured the music industry, it was significant and Rick was one of the artists who made it great.

[Edited 11/6/10 8:50am]

You're putting words in the mouth of the original poster.

Why do you make this thread about black music, when the original poster asked a question about Rick James? Where did he say, "was black music extremely popular?"

For me, extremely (!) famous is somebody who is known by everybody worldwide, not only a certain group, right? And Rick James just wasn't. So he wasn't extremely famous.

Has nothing to do with black music being popular in the UK. Michael Jackson was black, wasn't he? And he was huge in the UK. Prince was huge. Rick James wasn't.

Because people act as if a black artist is a failure if he or she didn't crossover and become a huge success on white radio. It's that kind of thinking that completely killed funk. In the mid to late 1980s, many black artists started weakening and watering down their music to try to appeal to white people because they started believing that bullshit themselves.

While many white people consider crossing over as a good thing, I see it as the worst thing a black artist can do and I'm white my damn self. And since you brought up Prince, I was mad as hell when white radio picked up "Little Red Corvette" because once white radio picks up a black artist, a lot of times the artist is never the same afterwards and start weakening and watering down their music to continue that success on white radio. The music is what ends up suffering in the end and when all the black artists started trying to crossover, that's what killed funk. If a white person is cool enough to like funk. That's fine, there was always black radio that welcomed them to listen to it. But don't weaken the music for an audience that doesn't like funk to begin with. Fuck 'em, let 'em keep listening to their Duran Duran.

.

.

.

[Edited 11/6/10 14:51pm]