I agree 110% with Elton here.

Yeah, there's plenty of decent artists these days, but he's obviously talking about the majority of mainstream pop acts, not the talented songwriter who has no top ten hits and barely scratches the charts if they're lucky.

Superstition said:

I agree 110% with Elton here.

Yeah, there's plenty of decent artists these days, but he's obviously talking about the majority of mainstream pop acts, not the talented songwriter who has no top ten hits and barely scratches the charts if they're lucky.

Yeah people going on about "the other music" are kinda missing the point (not pointing fingers but I've noticed that so it's nothing personal ). He obviously meant what's being played on monopolized radio stations today. Of course most of us have said what Elton's saying but like I said earlier, I'm glad someone major said it. Yeah he's stating the obvious but hey... lol

Timmy84 said:

Superstition said:

I agree 110% with Elton here.

Yeah, there's plenty of decent artists these days, but he's obviously talking about the majority of mainstream pop acts, not the talented songwriter who has no top ten hits and barely scratches the charts if they're lucky.

Yeah people going on about "the other music" are kinda missing the point (not pointing fingers but I've noticed that so it's nothing personal ). He obviously meant what's being played on monopolized radio stations today. Of course most of us have said what Elton's saying but like I said earlier, I'm glad someone major said it. Yeah he's stating the obvious but hey... lol

yeah i mean Elton was talking about bands like Arcade Fire, Scissor Sisters, and artists like Ryan Adams, long before and AFTER anyone talks about them, he was pointing smaller artists out, i remember him taking the scissor sisters out on his tour as openers when no one wanted them, he also ripped his own label about the pricing of that cd! so Elton goes far beyond the mainstreamers, and yes his comments were the pop assembly line, i mean look at what he points out, things like AI and Xfactor and just the top stuff that has the hold.

lastdecember said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah people going on about "the other music" are kinda missing the point (not pointing fingers but I've noticed that so it's nothing personal ). He obviously meant what's being played on monopolized radio stations today. Of course most of us have said what Elton's saying but like I said earlier, I'm glad someone major said it. Yeah he's stating the obvious but hey... lol

yeah i mean Elton was talking about bands like Arcade Fire, Scissor Sisters, and artists like Ryan Adams, long before and AFTER anyone talks about them, he was pointing smaller artists out, i remember him taking the scissor sisters out on his tour as openers when no one wanted them, he also ripped his own label about the pricing of that cd! so Elton goes far beyond the mainstreamers, and yes his comments were the pop assembly line, i mean look at what he points out, things like AI and Xfactor and just the top stuff that has the hold.

Yeah after reviewing his comments about a lot of things, I have to be in agreement with him because Elton is definitely about the music. I loved what he did for the Scissor Sisters in general.

Timmy84 said:

lastdecember said:

yeah i mean Elton was talking about bands like Arcade Fire, Scissor Sisters, and artists like Ryan Adams, long before and AFTER anyone talks about them, he was pointing smaller artists out, i remember him taking the scissor sisters out on his tour as openers when no one wanted them, he also ripped his own label about the pricing of that cd! so Elton goes far beyond the mainstreamers, and yes his comments were the pop assembly line, i mean look at what he points out, things like AI and Xfactor and just the top stuff that has the hold.

Yeah after reviewing his comments about a lot of things, I have to be in agreement with him because Elton is definitely about the music. I loved what he did for the Scissor Sisters in general.

yeah i know people like to get on Elton because he jumped on Madonna about winning best "live" show and he said, she isnt a "live" act, Elton was propping up the new jacks that play and sing, while she and others lypsynch on stage, i mean he wasnt bad mouthing her, he loves her, but he thought "Live" act was BS. And also people feel he should get off George Michaels case for constantly being stoned and driving, but you know what, when George dies in a crash or kills someone we are going to get sob story threads

lastdecember said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah after reviewing his comments about a lot of things, I have to be in agreement with him because Elton is definitely about the music. I loved what he did for the Scissor Sisters in general.

yeah i know people like to get on Elton because he jumped on Madonna about winning best "live" show and he said, she isnt a "live" act, Elton was propping up the new jacks that play and sing, while she and others lypsynch on stage, i mean he wasnt bad mouthing her, he loves her, but he thought "Live" act was BS. And also people feel he should get off George Michaels case for constantly being stoned and driving, but you know what, when George dies in a crash or kills someone we are going to get sob story threads

I admit I was even wrong for even making that assumption about Elton and George. Now I know Elton was trying to help him with generous support.

Elton's right,

Music has been dumbed down ever since the 70's. A lot of that has to do with this new technological revolution. Brian Eno, who is god father of ambient music, has been quoted many times in saying that technology has pretty much ruined music. The sheer ease to making it has erased the compositional process that use to be attached. This is a reflection of the times though. We live in a fast paced world where if your not out 6 months after your last hit, your labeled as old. A song becomes dated in months. So why work hard on a song, that won't be really appreciated?

Song Writers, no longer have a place to survive. They use to have publishers who would help and shop there songs to artist, this no longer happens anymore. So a lot of people who have no compositional talents, are forced to write their own material or faux "collab" with other artist.

Think about it,

60's had The Beatles

70's had Stevie Wonder

80's Prince & Michael Jackson (who blossomed as a really good SW)

90's Jeff Buckley, Kurt Cobain

00's?

only real person who warrants himself as an amazing song writer for the 00's era is Ryan Adams,

and he's not it pop genre.

Don't get me wrong, they're still out there, but they're indie.

I've heard some amazing songs and compositions from artist shrouded in obsurity.

Hell just cruising the Singer Songwriter circuit here in NYC, you hear amazing songwriters.

And they will never ever be popular.

Thats the real crime.

I still haven't gotten Lady Gaga's singles... never heard one and said to myself "That's cool!"

Ever see "Long and Winding Road"???

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Nvncible1 said:

well im pretty sure a singer pianist from the 1950's was saying the same thing about music in the 70s sooooo......

Frank Sinatra complained about the music in 70's didn't he?

ufoclub said:

I still haven't gotten Lady Gaga's singles... never heard one and said to myself "That's cool!"

If u are listening.............u never will.

lastdecember said:

Cerebus said:

I always like some of Elton's songs, but dude is sounding a bit old and out of touch here. First of all, most of us know all this. We're just apathetic or don't know what to do to change it. Second, as he himself pointed out, he didn't even write lyrics, Bernie did.

In regards to great songs, though, I hear them regularly by all kinds of small bands and composers who just aren't getting listened to by more than a hanful of people (in relation to the music listening public at large). Another one of the awesome (sarcastic and serious) affects the internet has had on the music business.

I dont think he's out of touch, i think alot of people are out of touch, did anyone see this dudes cd collection, he buys every single cd that comes out every tuesday, indie, pop, rap whatever, he is more in touch than probably any artist out there and for him to comment i take it more seriously then someone isolated like say...Prince. Also songwriting is both, Elton doesnt write lyrics, but listen to todays songwriters doing the music, its a nightmare, same chord progressions, nothing is changing, indie or contemporary for every lightning in the bottle you got about 100 shit artists. So again the whole "indie" being this well of amazing crafted songs and talent its just no one is paying attention is sounding sorry to say...."old". I can listen to the new Elton cd and get more "life" out of a 64 year old, and a 60 year lyric writer than say a kid just entering the scene who should be kicking the ass of the older crowd.

"I dont think he's out of touch, i think alot of people are out of touch, did anyone see this dudes cd collection, he buys every single cd that comes out every tuesday, indie, pop, rap whatever, he is more in touch than probably any artist out there and for him to comment i take it more seriously then someone isolated like say...Prince."

You have no idea what P's life is like so you do not know what is in his cd collection or what artist he checks out. He has said the same things that Elton is saying so what makes Elton's comments valid and P's comments not valid.

The songwriting today sucks and so does the music. I think most of us isolated or not can agree on that much.

SoulAlive said:

Elton is absolutely right How many of today's songs are gonna be considered "classics" 30 years from now?

They will be remembered because the 1990s and shit hop lowered the standards of things to be considered "classics". I mean, Borepac Shakur is considered a legend these days and the shit he made was no different than the other dull asses during his era.

hmm, can't say i agree. Prince, Sufjan, Arcade Fire, Sade, Jamie Lidell, MGMT,
Jonsi, Antony & The Johnsons all released great albums this year. I like 2010 so far.

BT11 said:

hmm, can't say i agree. Prince, Sufjan, Arcade Fire, Sade, Jamie Lidell, MGMT,
Jonsi, Antony & The Johnsons all released great albums this year. I like 2010 so far.

Wouldn't say they're "Popular,"

There are plenty of great songs and songwriters out there that are mainstream....in the country market. That's the one market where good songs still matter, and while there's crap that gets through, there are still plenty of great songs coming out. Like this:

guitarslinger44 said:

There are plenty of great songs and songwriters out there that are mainstream....in the country market. That's the one market where good songs still matter, and while there's crap that gets through, there are still plenty of great songs coming out. Like this:

Todays country music sounds more like bad 80's rock music.

And I love country music, miranda is ok, but she isn't.

Lucinda Williams, sure,

Emmylou Harris, yeah

Allison Krauss is amazing, but they're success is marginal and has been slowing as we ascend into this era of musical mediocrity.

People would rather listen to Kenny Chesney

The top country song is Easton Corbin's Roll with it,

which is HORRIBLE

again the only good artist are the obscure artist.

Your Ryan Adams

Rhett Miller

Amazing songwriters

and no one really knows about them

Smart man

Elton always getting catty when he's promoting an album. Which is truly unnecessary. I saw him live in Honolulu earlier this year and he was amazing and I'm not even a fan of his. Stick to the music and can the commentary.

HonestMan13 said:

Elton always getting catty when he's promoting an album. Which is truly unnecessary. I saw him live in Honolulu earlier this year and he was amazing and I'm not even a fan of his. Stick to the music and can the commentary.

There are good song writers out there today....you just have to hunt for them a bit more! Pop music, or what they play on mainstream radio, is mostly rubbish.

A few decent songwriters break through (Ellie Golding springs to mind recently) but other than that you have to do your homework and discover them yourselves these days...don't expect much help from mainstream media!

BT11 said:

hmm, can't say i agree. Prince, Sufjan, Arcade Fire, Sade, Jamie Lidell, MGMT,
Jonsi, Antony & The Johnsons all released great albums this year. I like 2010 so far.

They're not "mainstream" though. Elton can admit they're good. In fact he already has.

Again, he said MAINSTREAM. Mainstream, people.

HonestMan13 said:

Elton always getting catty when he's promoting an album. Which is truly unnecessary. I saw him live in Honolulu earlier this year and he was amazing and I'm not even a fan of his. Stick to the music and can the commentary.

First of all no one even heard this quote....it got about 5 seconds of air time, and 2 the man doesnt need promotion, his fans know when he is putting something out, he isnt picking up NEW fans at this point, hes 64, we are talking about Elton John not Soulja Boy

lastdecember said:

HonestMan13 said:

Elton always getting catty when he's promoting an album. Which is truly unnecessary. I saw him live in Honolulu earlier this year and he was amazing and I'm not even a fan of his. Stick to the music and can the commentary.

First of all no one even heard this quote....it got about 5 seconds of air time, and 2 the man doesnt need promotion, his fans know when he is putting something out, he isnt picking up NEW fans at this point, hes 64, we are talking about Elton John not Soulja Boy

I think there's some truth to that, but I think the larger issue is the quality of producers out there. There aren't any good ones under, say, 50. Certainly not in rock and roll.

No one knows how to arrange a song any more. They all think you have to have a sonic wall of sound, with every single stringed instrument run through every crunch box they can find, all set to 11.

Blah. That's not rock.

EmbattledWarrior said:

guitarslinger44 said:

There are plenty of great songs and songwriters out there that are mainstream....in the country market. That's the one market where good songs still matter, and while there's crap that gets through, there are still plenty of great songs coming out. Like this:

Todays country music sounds more like bad 80's rock music.

And I love country music, miranda is ok, but she isn't.

Lucinda Williams, sure,

Emmylou Harris, yeah

Allison Krauss is amazing, but they're success is marginal and has been slowing as we ascend into this era of musical mediocrity.

People would rather listen to Kenny Chesney

The top country song is Easton Corbin's Roll with it,

which is HORRIBLE

again the only good artist are the obscure artist.

Your Ryan Adams

Rhett Miller

Amazing songwriters

and no one really knows about them

Some of it does, I'll give you that, but there are a lot of 80's cats playing and producing here in Nashville, so that's bound to happen. The 80's style production worked for Shania Twain, so there are a lot of other folks wanting to do it. But if you think it all sounds like bad 80's rock, Lady Antebellum, Jamey Johnson, and Jack Ingram, among many others, would like to have a word with you.

And I agree that Emmylou Harris and Lucinda Williams are good, but Ryan Adams (who I agree with lastdecember is the best "name" songwriter of our generation) is hardly obscure and Rhett Miller, while he has his moments is good but definitely not great, either solo or with the Old 97's.Besides, Miranda Lambert didn't write "The House That Built Me," Tom Douglas and Allan Shamblin did. THOSE guys are obscure for those who don't follow country music.

But I'd put The House That Built Me up against anything any of those folks have written (and Ryan Adams is one of my biggest influences as a writer). It's a song that's not only well written, but it's relatable and deep as well. It's a self examination that everyone can relate to and that's part of what makes it such a great song.

Songwriters today are pretty awful because most of them are NOT songwriters OR composers to begin with. They are beatmakers.

ufoclub said:

I still haven't gotten Lady Gaga's singles... never heard one and said to myself "That's cool!"

I agree.I can see why she gets alot of attention (the wild costumes and performances) but I don't think there's anything special or groundbreaking about her music.It's just standard dance music,imo.

TonyVanDam said:

Songwriters today are pretty awful because most of them are NOT songwriters OR composers to begin with. They are beatmakers.

Thank you and I'm not sure if half of those beats being "created" aren't sampled. These people can't even use the music of others and write decent lyrics.

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RodeoSchro said:

I think there's some truth to that, but I think the larger issue is the quality of producers out there. There aren't any good ones under, say, 50. Certainly not in rock and roll.

No one knows how to arrange a song any more. They all think you have to have a sonic wall of sound, with every single stringed instrument run through every crunch box they can find, all set to 11.

Blah. That's not rock.

I have to disagree. Least for rock. A lot of great rock producers. However a producer can only do so much these days. Producers have to do what they can with what they're given, and if they're given crap, they really can't do much. The beatles where nothing without george martin, but Martin was also nothing with the beatles. You can give somebody the "best" producer, it isn't going to do much unless the actual artist has some songwriting talent. Producers just create the sonic world of songs. They don't compose or write the lyrics. They have to arrange a song, with whatever they are given.

And no matter how much you try to shine up a piece of shit, it will still be piece of shit.

But yeah there are alot of great producers out there, Ethan Johns, Mark Ellis, Chris Trapper, Josh Abraham, Michael Baskette & Ben Grosse.

However. In the pop world, as previously stated, its pretty much mirrored hip hop and has become beatmaking.