Ok so I've heard the stories about Irv Gotti and Sug Knight being in cahoots with the Italian mafia to get financing for Murder Inc and Death Row, but surely they aren't the only rap moguls out there gettin' down with Capone wannabes. Just how deeply connected is the rap industry to organized crime? I caught a snippet of the Centric series American Gangster and they had this one guy who was a well know NY gangster in the early 80s and supposedly had connections to Grand Master Flash (he was not italian though)....I can't recall his name. Then there are the rumors that Jam Master Jay was murdered by mobsters cuz he owed them money.

Also, what IS the fascination with Italian mobsters? I mean WTF do poor urban black guys have in common with the mafia other than finding ways to make money illegally in a society that hasn't been exactly fair to minorities and immigrants? Anybody can do that and there are means to do it that don't involve killing people or destroying communities through drugs. I certainly don't get the appeal since race relations between American Italians and African-Americans are not historically positive and since these mobsters either end up dead or in prison. For a time it seemed like many a east coast rapper was fancying himself a characte

so what's the deal with rappers and goodfellas and what other rappers/hip hop CEO are rumored to be married to the mob?

Discuss

The late Jaques Fred Petrus, producer of soul/funk-artists/groups around the 80's such as BB&Q Band, Change, High Fashion, Peter Jaques Band, Zinc, etc...

Jacques Fred Petrus

Frank Sinatra ... i thought the scene below was somehow based on it ... maybe not

Jackie Wilson's whole career was controlled by the mob,,,,,and I have my suspicions of Berry Gordy.

Frank Sinatra wasn't pleased with the godfather at all,,,he tried to boycott Coppola.

^ Berry Gordy? I know he built Motown but somehow I can't see him holding his own against no mob boss. He seems so square to me.

I heard about Jackie Wilson and I do believe that he was murdered.

The Story of Tommy James is an interesting one.

Snoop is looking increasingly suspicious to me. I'm beginning to think he was in on Pac gettin' slaughtered.

I think the rap industry is easy for the mafia and other crime factions to manipulate because so many of the men in this game don't have startup money. When you need quick cash with no signatures and no questions....mafia are the perfect money lenders.

DesireeNevermind said:

^ Berry Gordy? I know he built Motown but somehow I can't see him holding his own against no mob boss. He seems so square to me.

Square? My dear, you don't dominate a big dynasty looking like the lost black dwarf without having a tough grip by being a motherfuckin' square

That being said, the mob knew there was BIG MONEY in music industry, and esp the R&B field,,,its a very stable market and with Motown's rising star, I assume there were some exchanged offers between them and Berry, him getting their artists into restricted territories for a cut.

Jackie wasn't murdered though, he died from a stroke.

Harlepolis said:

DesireeNevermind said:

^ Berry Gordy? I know he built Motown but somehow I can't see him holding his own against no mob boss. He seems so square to me.

Square? My dear, you don't dominate a big dynasty looking like the lost black dwarf without having a tough grip by being a motherfuckin' square

That being said, the mob knew there was BIG MONEY in music industry, and esp the R&B field,,,its a very stable market and with Motown's rising star, I assume there were some exchanged offers between them and Berry, him getting their artists into restricted territories for a cut.

Jackie wasn't murdered though, he died from a stroke.

Weren't there some unexplained needle punctures on his body? Like Marilyn Monroe and Dorothy Dandridge?

I mean square like L7. Not dumb or green but not badass enough to do some dastardly shit. I think he played fair with the mob and was careful not to try and outhustle them. I can't see him enaging in the more seedier side of that type of bidness like killing, drugs, prostitution. Payolla sure. But then that was common practice for his generation. Shit, still going on.

DesireeNevermind said:

Snoop is looking increasingly suspicious to me. I'm beginning to think he was in on Pac gettin' slaughtered.

I think the rap industry is easy for the mafia and other crime factions to manipulate because so many of the men in this game don't have startup money. When you need quick cash with no signatures and no questions....mafia are the perfect money lenders.

I hope you're not serious.

LayzieKrayzie said:

DesireeNevermind said:

Snoop is looking increasingly suspicious to me. I'm beginning to think he was in on Pac gettin' slaughtered.

I think the rap industry is easy for the mafia and other crime factions to manipulate because so many of the men in this game don't have startup money. When you need quick cash with no signatures and no questions....mafia are the perfect money lenders.

I hope you're not serious.

I am. I'm not saying he had him killed but I think he knows what really went down that night and is just keeping hush. That whole Death Row family was corrupt.

DesireeNevermind said:

Harlepolis said:

Square? My dear, you don't dominate a big dynasty looking like the lost black dwarf without having a tough grip by being a motherfuckin' square

That being said, the mob knew there was BIG MONEY in music industry, and esp the R&B field,,,its a very stable market and with Motown's rising star, I assume there were some exchanged offers between them and Berry, him getting their artists into restricted territories for a cut.

Jackie wasn't murdered though, he died from a stroke.

Weren't there some unexplained needle punctures on his body? Like Marilyn Monroe and Dorothy Dandridge?

I mean square like L7. Not dumb or green but not badass enough to do some dastardly shit. I think he played fair with the mob and was careful not to try and outhustle them. I can't see him enaging in the more seedier side of that type of bidness like killing, drugs, prostitution. Payolla sure. But then that was common practice for his generation. Shit, still going on.

I'm just saying though, it ain't that far fitched.

Remember Smokey Robinson's hissy fit when the movie "Dreamgirls" came out? He made a hell of an effort to refute that scene where Jamie Foxx made some kinda shiesty deal with the mob,,,,,I know its a movie, but seeing all those folks getting their panties in a bunch made me think about it.

Also, lets not forget that while Berry Gordy wasn't the first black CEO to emerge, he was the FIRST to invade the mainstream scene,,,,now did he pull it through with some "help"? Maybe, maybe not. And its not by any means an attempt to downplay his legacy, but that stuff was pretty common in the record industry back then,,,so, who knows.

Harlepolis said:

DesireeNevermind said:

Weren't there some unexplained needle punctures on his body? Like Marilyn Monroe and Dorothy Dandridge?

I mean square like L7. Not dumb or green but not badass enough to do some dastardly shit. I think he played fair with the mob and was careful not to try and outhustle them. I can't see him enaging in the more seedier side of that type of bidness like killing, drugs, prostitution. Payolla sure. But then that was common practice for his generation. Shit, still going on.

I'm just saying though, it ain't that far fitched.

Remember Smokey Robinson's hissy fit when the movie "Dreamgirls" came out? He made a hell of an effort to refute that scene where Jamie Foxx made some kinda shiesty deal with the mob,,,,,I know its a movie, but seeing all those folks getting their panties in a bunch made me think about it.

Also, lets not forget that while Berry Gordy wasn't the first black CEO to emerge, he was the FIRST to invade the mainstream scene,,,,now did he pull it through with some "help"? Maybe, maybe not. And its not by any means an attempt to downplay his legacy, but that stuff was pretty common in the record industry back then,,,so, who knows.

yeah....why did he have some a strong reaction to that scene? shit must have hit too close to home.

DesireeNevermind said:

Snoop is looking increasingly suspicious to me. I'm beginning to think he was in on Pac gettin' slaughtered.

I think the rap industry is easy for the mafia and other crime factions to manipulate because so many of the men in this game don't have startup money. When you need quick cash with no signatures and no questions....mafia are the perfect money lenders.

I don't know about modern rappers in bed with the real mob but being bankrolled by known drug kingpins ang gangbangers is pretty standard.

[Edited 9/2/10 14:20pm]

LayzieKrayzie said:

DesireeNevermind said:

Snoop is looking increasingly suspicious to me. I'm beginning to think he was in on Pac gettin' slaughtered.

I think the rap industry is easy for the mafia and other crime factions to manipulate because so many of the men in this game don't have startup money. When you need quick cash with no signatures and no questions....mafia are the perfect money lenders.

I hope you're not serious.

No they weren't. Suge Knight wasn't even as corrupt as you'd think. And Snoop Dogg, he had nothing at all to do with it. Suge Knight is sometimes looked at as a suspect, which kind of makes sense. Snoop on the other hand had no involvement. You can research all the investigations that took place or any files or reports on the murder, and let's see how many times you'll hear Snoop Dogg be brought up. Even all the people who think this is some kind of conspiracy don't even put the blame on Snoop.

LayzieKrayzie said:

LayzieKrayzie said:

I hope you're not serious.

No they weren't. Suge Knight wasn't even as corrupt as you'd think. And Snoop Dogg, he had nothing at all to do with it. Suge Knight is sometimes looked at as a suspect, which kind of makes sense. Snoop on the other hand had no involvement. You can research all the investigations that took place or any files or reports on the murder, and let's see how many times you'll hear Snoop Dogg be brought up. Even all the people who think this is some kind of conspiracy don't even put the blame on Snoop.

Doesn't mean he doesn't KNOW what happened with Pac and Biggie.

SCNDLS said:

LayzieKrayzie said:

No they weren't. Suge Knight wasn't even as corrupt as you'd think. And Snoop Dogg, he had nothing at all to do with it. Suge Knight is sometimes looked at as a suspect, which kind of makes sense. Snoop on the other hand had no involvement. You can research all the investigations that took place or any files or reports on the murder, and let's see how many times you'll hear Snoop Dogg be brought up. Even all the people who think this is some kind of conspiracy don't even put the blame on Snoop.

Doesn't mean he doesn't KNOW what happened with Pac and Biggie.

Yep! and in my book, if you know something evil about to go down with your so-called homie/brother and you stay silent....yo ass is complicit! Hell...even Sug run off at the mouth to say he didn't know what happened and had nothing to do with Pac getting killed but Snoop stayed way under the radar.

This is kinda interesting \

http://crimeandcriminalsb...amily.html

Black Mafia Family

The Black Mafia Family, or BMF, is an extensive criminal organization that recently delved into the world of hip-hop music and entertainment, successfully promoting a variety of rap artists. However, the DEA claims their investments in hip-hop are primarily a cover for money laundering funds acquired through drug trafficking.

The Flenory Brothers

The "Black Mafia Family" originated in Detroit, Michigan and was founded by two brothers, Demetrius "Meech" Flenory and Terry Flenory, who reportedly began their rise in crime by selling small amounts of crack cocaine on the streets during the 1980s. The BMF evolved into a nationwide, and international, partnership. During a two-year federal investigation of the organization, it was revealed that members were known to have operated in Detroit, Michigan; Columbus and Atlanta, Georgia; Los Angeles, California; Miami, Fort Lauderdale and Orlando Florida; St. Louis, Missouri; Greenville, South Carolina; Louisville, Kentucky and even Sinaloa, Mexico, where they worked with the Malverde Mafia.

Very little information has been made public about the criminal activities of the BMF. However, the association of BMF members and high-level leadership with famous rap stars and their own moves towards hip-hop stardom began to garner attention at the time of the organization's disruption in late 2005. BMF commands a high level of respect in the hip-hop community, and even though they have remained out of the public eye for years, their influence extends throughout the hip-hop community and there is an almost unspoken code of respect and fear associated with the group for rappers not under their umbrella.

Hip-Hop Presence

BMF Entertainment began to generate buzz in the national hip-hop scene in the early 2000s. Although the group had nationwide influence, much of the music industry activity was centered in the group's adopted hometown of Atlanta, Georgia, and Birmingham, Alabama. BMF appeared in numerous underground hip-hop DVD magazines, most notably several issues of S.M.A.C.K. DVD Magazine and The Come Up DVD. The label's premiere artist Bleu Da Vinci, hails from the West Coast. His project, The World is BMF's, was nominated for an award by The Source Magazine in 2004.

BMF is also reported to own underground Atlanta music magazine The Juice.

Hip-Hop Affiliates

Several people in the hip-hop community are very closely affiliated with the BMF, most notably James Rosemond "Jimmy Henchmen", Walter Johnson "King Tut" and Jacques Agnant "Haitian Jack". At one point Sean Combs "Puff Daddy" "P. Diddy" or "Diddy" was being extorted by the east coast drug dealers.

Although not members of the BMF clique, several prominent hip-hop artists have appeared on underground records with Bleu Da Vinci. Atlanta-based rapper Young Jeezy in particular is a frequent BMF affiliate and has been seen at numerous video shoots and parties with the group. Jeezy has never officially acknowledged his BMF ties, and refuses to comment on them to news media. On March 11, 2006, Jeezy and several alleged BMF associates were arrested in connection with an incident in Miami. In addition to Young Jeezy, other artists known to collaborate musically or associate with BMF include:

• Fabolous
• Underground Atlanta artist Baby D
• Jadakiss
• Da Brat
• Crisis aka Cee-Lo the general, from NPG Ent of Columbia, South Carolina

Jacob the Jeweler was recently arrested and charged with allegedly laundering more than $200 millon and trafficking drugs for BMF. He is said to have ties to the Russian Mafia. No further details surrounding the case, future trial dates or the continuing investigation have been revealed to the public.

[Edited 9/2/10 14:26pm]

Jeezy is so scummy to me even though I dig a few of his jams. Jadakiss and Fabolous are a surprise to me. I thought they were too smart for such mess. I use the term "smart" rather loosely.

There is a documentary titled WELCOME TO DEATH ROW that I recommend if you are really interested in hearing some of the facts about that label. But they may not fit with your conspiracy theories so, watch with caution.

It identifies exactly who the criminal person funding Death Row really was.

Surprise surprise, he is not an Italian mafioso. It's a very fascinating story with lots of shady characters - and a well made film. But it pretty much debunks any suspicion that the "Big Boys" were involved.

Yeah Tommy James' story is pretty interesting. I also just saw an interview with Elmer Valentine who ran the Whisky in the late 60s, talking a little about mob involvement in the biz. And infamously, Vanilla Fudge was pushed by some scary guido guys. Kevin Ayers of Soft Machine talked about tourng with Hendrix, at Jimi's personal invitation, and suddenly getting pushed out because "Da Fudge is on da tour, and dat's da way it is."

Not to bring race up too much but these guys get into the "Scarface" fantasy or buy Bentey's and drink certain products not realizing these companies and the REAL "families" (No jump up onstage like Kayne) don't have the slightest care or concern for "People of Color."

Go read the George Jacobs book and look up the the story of Dolly's reaction when Frank introduced George Jacobs to his mother.

Also, these guys forget the most important aspect of it all - omerta.

[Edited 9/2/10 23:17pm]

DesireeNevermind said:

Ok so I've heard the stories about Irv Gotti and Sug Knight being in cahoots with the Italian mafia to get financing for Murder Inc and Death Row, but surely they aren't the only rap moguls out there gettin' down with Capone wannabes. Just how deeply connected is the rap industry to organized crime? I caught a snippet of the Centric series American Gangster and they had this one guy who was a well know NY gangster in the early 80s and supposedly had connections to Grand Master Flash (he was not italian though)....I can't recall his name. Then there are the rumors that Jam Master Jay was murdered by mobsters cuz he owed them money.

Also, what IS the fascination with Italian mobsters? I mean WTF do poor urban black guys have in common with the mafia other than finding ways to make money illegally in a society that hasn't been exactly fair to minorities and immigrants? Anybody can do that and there are means to do it that don't involve killing people or destroying communities through drugs. I certainly don't get the appeal since race relations between American Italians and African-Americans are not historically positive and since these mobsters either end up dead or in prison. For a time it seemed like many a east coast rapper was fancying himself a characte

so what's the deal with rappers and goodfellas and what other rappers/hip hop CEO are rumored to be married to the mob?

Discuss

I can't speak for "poor urban black guys" but I know that I've had a fascination with the Italian mafia (and the movies as well) not because of the violence and many crimes committed or order to achieve their ultimate goal (money and power most notably) but mainly their strategy in conducting business with their rivals in order to achieve power. Despite the many negatives of their culture (not to be mistaken, not the Italian culture, but the mafioso culture) there are a lot of intelligent lessons that could be learned from them, if used properly. "Never let anyone outside know what you are thinking", "Don't make decisions in the heat of the moment", "It's only business, not personal", etc. There are more concepts that these, but these concepts can be applied to real life situations in a legitimate nature...not necessarily in the "underworld".

As stated before, I can't speak for the "poor urban black guys" that you have mentioned, but it's sort of obvious why they would glorify and admire the mafioso lifestyle...at least from the outside looking in. It's the "get rich quick and die trying" philosophy. Look at "Scarface". He was a poor immigrant, mainly a criminal, who rose to the top with money and power extremely quickly by eliminating his rivals in the process. It's not that hard to understand.

^ yes Scarface rose to prominence quickly....and he fell just as quickly. That's the point I'm getting at. These urban youth need to understand the golden rule - live by the sword you die by the sword. they think the fame and money will last and sadly it doesn't. There are other prominent people (wealthy and famous) that the youth can admire. Rap music doesn't always have to be about drugs and ass either. And unfortunately, the YBMs don't admire their mafioso heros enough to value family above all else. One thing I commend those mobsters on is the fact that they kept their families in tact and weren't allowing their relatives to use the drugs they were pushing off on everyone else.

Wherever there's money to be made you can bet criminals will be. It's not just musicians. Think athletes, actors, etc...

NONSENSE said:

Wherever there's money to be made you can bet criminals will be. It's not just musicians. Think athletes, actors, etc...

So true!

DesireeNevermind said:

Ok so I've heard the stories about Irv Gotti and Sug Knight being in cahoots with the Italian mafia to get financing for Murder Inc and Death Row, but surely they aren't the only rap moguls out there gettin' down with Capone wannabes. Just how deeply connected is the rap industry to organized crime? I caught a snippet of the Centric series American Gangster and they had this one guy who was a well know NY gangster in the early 80s and supposedly had connections to Grand Master Flash (he was not italian though)....I can't recall his name. Then there are the rumors that Jam Master Jay was murdered by mobsters cuz he owed them money.

Also, what IS the fascination with Italian mobsters? I mean WTF do poor urban black guys have in common with the mafia other than finding ways to make money illegally in a society that hasn't been exactly fair to minorities and immigrants? Anybody can do that and there are means to do it that don't involve killing people or destroying communities through drugs. I certainly don't get the appeal since race relations between American Italians and African-Americans are not historically positive and since these mobsters either end up dead or in prison. For a time it seemed like many a east coast rapper was fancying himself a characte

so what's the deal with rappers and goodfellas and what other rappers/hip hop CEO are rumored to be married to the mob?

Discuss

First of all, the underground has always been a part of the music business... be it Italian, Black, or Jewish.

Secondly there's far more in common between African-American culture and Italian-American culture than there are differences. There's a lot for both cultures to relate to. Both cultures are very proud, expressive cultures, so when there's a conflict, it shows. But there's been FAR more unity between Italian-Americans and African Americans than conflict.

Giovanni777 said:

DesireeNevermind said:

Ok so I've heard the stories about Irv Gotti and Sug Knight being in cahoots with the Italian mafia to get financing for Murder Inc and Death Row, but surely they aren't the only rap moguls out there gettin' down with Capone wannabes. Just how deeply connected is the rap industry to organized crime? I caught a snippet of the Centric series American Gangster and they had this one guy who was a well know NY gangster in the early 80s and supposedly had connections to Grand Master Flash (he was not italian though)....I can't recall his name. Then there are the rumors that Jam Master Jay was murdered by mobsters cuz he owed them money.

Also, what IS the fascination with Italian mobsters? I mean WTF do poor urban black guys have in common with the mafia other than finding ways to make money illegally in a society that hasn't been exactly fair to minorities and immigrants? Anybody can do that and there are means to do it that don't involve killing people or destroying communities through drugs. I certainly don't get the appeal since race relations between American Italians and African-Americans are not historically positive and since these mobsters either end up dead or in prison. For a time it seemed like many a east coast rapper was fancying himself a characte

so what's the deal with rappers and goodfellas and what other rappers/hip hop CEO are rumored to be married to the mob?

Discuss

First of all, the underground has always been a part of the music business... be it Italian, Black, or Jewish.

Secondly there's far more in common between African-American culture and Italian-American culture than there are differences. There's a lot for both cultures to relate to. Both cultures are very proud, expressive cultures, so when there's a conflict, it shows. But there's been FAR more unity between Italian-Americans and African Americans than conflict.

True.

But the Mafioso culture(as Missfee made the distinction earlier) has nothing but contempt against black people.