Timmy84 said:

greatpink said:

See... Many things in my post might be wrong. Let's face it: we don't know. Not a thing. It's all about personal meanings, impressions and feelings, that are not really important.

(And I tell you, I was DEEPLY impressed by Prince Michaels dyed hair )

The question was: why are we discussing this at all? And why is it such a big deal?

Honestly, when I read the statements like "MJ should marry a nice black woman" or "He should adopt black kids" - it's always on the tip of my tongue: "Why the f*** SHOULD he anything? And who gave you the right to say something like this?"

Do the folks in black community own their members? And feel entitled to tell them what they "should"?

It's not because I want MJ for myself

Perhaps we are just stupid here in Europe

Well don't blame it on an entire black community. I'm a black American but I would've never said MJ should do this to "prove" he was black. He was a black man and proud of it but he also wanted to unify the world. I just doubt he hated who he was because if you read all those rumors and believe it, you only have a misguided view of who Michael really was.

Timmy *sigh* I basically don't believe anything I read about MJ. I kept my nerve last summer this way.

It is also absolutely not important what my personal beliefs are.

I still want to understand why MJ's allegedly root-distancing is such a big issue? Especially with certain white folks?

Because here (Germany) it is not. At least not with anybody I know.

Perhaps I should have better put it this way:

- So if he bleached... - So what?

- If he didn't want... - So what?

- If he hated... - So what?

Shrug as a usual reaction by the most.

[Edited 7/16/10 16:01pm]

NastradumasKid said:

greatpink said:

Calm down, alright?

I don't know the f*** about the black people, that's right. So I am trying to understand.

I can't know for sure what he did or did not, and what went through his head; but I said if he did, I won't have a problem with it.

And sorry for N-word - I must have red too many post with this kind of lingo.

Where? Not on this website. I'm not trying to be mean but I had to call you out. You were really asking for it when you made that post. Your post was out of line...like seriously.

Surely not here Internet is full of garbage.

I must have deserved a petting though: I had believed the worst about MJ (from your point of view probably (?)) and had been still considering jumping from the bridge

Timmy84 said:

seeingvoices12 said:

Timmy84 said:

this a great pic timmy........

Thanks.

I'm listening to Bad, and I've felt it was a tribute to James Brown, from the horns to how he sings the verse. So it's got me thinking.....is that why he wanted Prince on the song as a duet? to pay tribute to their hero?

^^ not wanting to enflame any further pointless discussion, but I always find it interesting when people say Michael wanted to eradicate his blackness. There have been many public and private moments when Michael stated he was proud of being a black american.

A lot of people saw the lightening of his skin as a betrayal of his race, initially not knowing he had vitilago. I mean in 1987 when BAD came out there was discussion in the media about his lighetened skin. So by the time he stated publicly that he had the disease a lot of people thought he was BSing as they had 6 years of being told by the media, 1000s of jokes by late night talk shows built up in their system and had already bought into the whole betraying his race idea. Despite the fact that during this same period he was proudly donating money to the NAACP and supporting other "black" issues.

Obviously the plastic surgery didn't help the cause as people say the changing of his nose as again trying to eradicate an african-amercian feature - when the real cause may just have been him trying to look (and end up) like his father.

[Edited 7/16/10 21:21pm]

humph.. BAD came out in 87' in the States..I remember my friend and I listening to the cassette in the late summer before school started we must;ve been listening in probably August 87' cause we were layin out in the sun & I liked Smooth Criminal & Dirty Diana & she picked They Way You Make Me Feel.

^^ correct - 1987 August was the release of BAD. For me that was a full on week - the album came out, the video premiered and tickets were announced for his first solo Australian tour.

Thanks for the pick up - i corrected my post.

greatpink said:

MyLuv229 said:

Careful.. Reel might dismiss you completey by saying you worship Michael as a God and that the autopsy report might be "photoshopped"

Ehm... Perhaps somebody here could explain it to me (?)

I was never quite able to comprehend why is it so awfully important if MJ did or did not have vitiligo, did or did not bleach his skin or did or did not want to be black.

Why dating white women, having white kids and distancing from his blackness sounds like such a terrible, apalling accusation - and also why MJ fans feel they need to prove the opposite with all their might?

I mean, why does he need defence on this one at all?

OK, he wanted to be white - So what?

I do believe that as African American he had made a few rather painfull experiences in his youth - more than it is officially known - and from what I know about racism in US on the whole I just can't blame him for "not wanting to be black".

He had white kids - So what?

He probably wanted to spare his children the experience he had made himself, what is so wrong about it?

He hated his race and his African American hair - SO WHAT? [the quote was from here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article440193.ece]

Really, it has been so much said about deep-rooted African American self-hatred, social ratings in dependence of skin shade and also bleaching, wigs, hair-dying... MJ was here just not different than the others

Personally I tend to believe that he did bleach his skin , purposively erased his African features and none of his kids is his biologically, but I have no problems with any of that.

I mean, it's a pity of course, because he used to be an unbelievably beautiful black boy and genes like his need to be propagated, but that were still his own personal issues and noway a POLITICAL matter.

Nor a crime.

(The guy wanted to be accepted. Wanted to please as much people as possible. I bet the politics was the last thing on his mind).

Oh, and I do understand (or I think that I understand) everything about black folks wanting him to be "their face", example, emblem, etc. and being disappointed; but the whites also make sound "not wanting to be black" like a criminal charge - Why should it bother them at all?

...Actually, this sounds more like accusation of being African American [ ] and not knowing his place, somehow.

(Anyone?)

[Edited 7/16/10 16:07pm]

I really don't have a anything to say to you except you are on my invisible ignore list.

FYI I posted the autopsy so that rational and literate individuals who can read would see it and know the truth. The truth will always prevail. Your ignorant self will die one day. But the truth about michael will always be here.

bboy87 said:

I'm listening to Bad, and I've felt it was a tribute to James Brown, from the horns to how he sings the verse. So it's got me thinking.....is that why he wanted Prince on the song as a duet? to pay tribute to their hero?

My understanding is that it's was Quincy's idea for Prince to duet on it - figuring it would be fierce to hear them both on a track.

Sadly I think BAD as a song hasn't aged well, I would love to hear an updated remix (with the "really really bad" backing vocals removed). The song always felt funkier live.

Swa said:

bboy87 said:

I'm listening to Bad, and I've felt it was a tribute to James Brown, from the horns to how he sings the verse. So it's got me thinking.....is that why he wanted Prince on the song as a duet? to pay tribute to their hero?

My understanding is that it's was Quincy's idea for Prince to duet on it - figuring it would be fierce to hear them both on a track.

Sadly I think BAD as a song hasn't aged well, I would love to hear an updated remix (with the "really really bad" backing vocals removed). The song always felt funkier live.

I heard a recent remix of it and it is great. it's one of those songs you can tell it's from the 80s but that's why I love it because I LOVE the 80s It's one of my favorite songs

The song that has aged the worst on the album is Just Good Friends

I'm planning on making my own remix of it soon

bboy87 said:

The song that has aged the worst on the album is Just Good Friends

Totally agree. I was never a fan of it. Of the SW/MJ collabs - this was the winner:

The man is too beautiful for words.........

[img:$uid]http://img697.i.../img:$uid]

Gotta adore this guy. I would love to see a footage from this day cause just the pictures are hilarious.

Swa said:

^^ not wanting to enflame any further pointless discussion, but I always find it interesting when people say Michael wanted to eradicate his blackness. There have been many public and private moments when Michael stated he was proud of being a black american.

A lot of people saw the lightening of his skin as a betrayal of his race, initially not knowing he had vitilago. I mean in 1987 when BAD came out there was discussion in the media about his lighetened skin. So by the time he stated publicly that he had the disease a lot of people thought he was BSing as they had 6 years of being told by the media, 1000s of jokes by late night talk shows built up in their system and had already bought into the whole betraying his race idea. Despite the fact that during this same period he was proudly donating money to the NAACP and supporting other "black" issues.

Obviously the plastic surgery didn't help the cause as people say the changing of his nose as again trying to eradicate an african-amercian feature - when the real cause may just have been him trying to look (and end up) like his father.

[Edited 7/16/10 21:21pm]

Actually what I said is that I don't know anything for sure but I wouldn't care *IF * he wanted to eradicate them.

If his metamorphosis occurred because of vitiligo he had notoriosly bad luck; *IF * not, I can understand why he did it.

It. Is. Just. Not. Important. - to me. Nor to anybody I spoke about it.

And I honestly can't see why is it important to you. Would it bother you much if you suddenly learn that he bleached? Would you stop being a fan? Stop enjoying his music?

I just don't think in race cathegories. Ethnies are free to stick to their roots to death or to distance from them . (For the case you don't know we are having a great integration problem here).

Still people seem to go ballistic as soon as they see the word "bleaching" and to miss the point completely.

BTW I have been dreaming about having darker skin and black hair all my life long - if this only were possible I swear by God I would have done it to myself

bboy87 said:

Swa said:

My understanding is that it's was Quincy's idea for Prince to duet on it - figuring it would be fierce to hear them both on a track.

Sadly I think BAD as a song hasn't aged well, I would love to hear an updated remix (with the "really really bad" backing vocals removed). The song always felt funkier live.

I heard a recent remix of it and it is great. it's one of those songs you can tell it's from the 80s but that's why I love it because I LOVE the 80s It's one of my favorite songs

The song that has aged the worst on the album is Just Good Friends

I'm planning on making my own remix of it soon

Swa said:

bboy87 said:

The song that has aged the worst on the album is Just Good Friends

Totally agree. I was never a fan of it. Of the SW/MJ collabs - this was the winner:

I agree! This song puts "Just Good Friends" to shame! It's a great,funky,catchy track.

SoulAlive said:

Swa said:

Totally agree. I was never a fan of it. Of the SW/MJ collabs - this was the winner:

I agree! This song puts "Just Good Friends" to shame! It's a great,funky,catchy track.

Definitely.

I have always loathed "Just Good Friends." It's the ONLY song by MJ that I just have never been able to listen to, lol.

mimi07 said:

bboy87 said:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/SpawnFan1/DSC04046.jpg

The Hot Toys versions were better in my opinion. The Dirty Diana/Bad one that just came out looks real cool

[img:$uid]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4003/4381041637_0ec031c84e_o.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4384272294_8411a48f9a.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4020/4383509575_b6a756d6b8.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs475.snc3/26049_326357427343_58690437343_4016929_452023_n.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs455.snc3/26049_326357452343_58690437343_4016933_7021610_n.jpg[/img:$uid]

hotness

AAAAAHHH these are soooo mine! I want them! Way more than Thriller ones, Bad is my era!

Marrk said:

bboy87 said:

I heard a recent remix of it and it is great. it's one of those songs you can tell it's from the 80s but that's why I love it because I LOVE the 80s It's one of my favorite songs

The song that has aged the worst on the album is Just Good Friends

I'm planning on making my own remix of it soon

I love JGF. I actually hate Smooth Criminal.

You hate Smooth Criminal?!

Marrk said:

bboy87 said:

I heard a recent remix of it and it is great. it's one of those songs you can tell it's from the 80s but that's why I love it because I LOVE the 80s It's one of my favorite songs

The song that has aged the worst on the album is Just Good Friends

I'm planning on making my own remix of it soon

I love JGF. I actually hate Smooth Criminal.

Did you get dropped on your head as a kid?

Timmy84 said:

Marrk said:

I love JGF. I actually hate Smooth Criminal.

Did you get dropped on your head as a kid?

Timmy84 said:

Marrk said:

I love JGF. I actually hate Smooth Criminal.

Did you get dropped on your head as a kid?

Marrk said:

bboy87 said:

I heard a recent remix of it and it is great. it's one of those songs you can tell it's from the 80s but that's why I love it because I LOVE the 80s It's one of my favorite songs

The song that has aged the worst on the album is Just Good Friends

I'm planning on making my own remix of it soon

I love JGF. I actually hate Smooth Criminal.

[img:$uid]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v194/outspoken34/11b8ar6.gif[/img:$uid]

Ciara breaks down when talking about Michael. The whole interview is pretty much about Michael, but skip to 1:50 for the break down

I love hearing all this Bad talk and your memories, I was 4 years old when it came out I remember the song Bad being everywhere that fall, though I don't remember the others at that time though I'm sure I heard them, like APOM when I saw EO in Florida. My uncle would make me listen to the song Bad on headphones, I remember seeing a few seconds of the video and not believing it was mj cause I was already familiar with his other videos faintly, people performing the song at talent shows, and I had a Thriller toy, so mj was in my life though I was not a full blown fan yet, just liked him from afar, and would get excited if I heard the name michael LOL

oh gosh I watched the ciara clip and started crying too, cause she sounds exactly like me about how michael inspired her to do music, and that is my hobby/passion as well

[Edited 7/17/10 16:55pm]

[Edited 7/17/10 17:15pm]

- LETS TALK ABOUT THE MUSIC -

So I was thinking about over the next several weeks we look at and discuss an album of Michaels (one a week) so as to focus our collective energies on the thing that made us a fan in the first part; the music.

So I was thinking starting each Sunday we work our way through Michael's solo work starting with Off The Wall (and yes I know he released solo work on Motown, but OTW was where he was his own artist).

So to kick things off here are my thoughts. I know BBoy and Timmie and others all have similar pieces and would love to read them as well as reading your thoughts (yes YOU) on the album.

~ Off The Wall ~

In 1979 as the disco years were winding to a close, Michael Jackson made his mark as a solo artist. With greater confidence in his writing and production, (evident with his brother’s on Destiny) Jackson embarked on an album that would see him present himself as a serious (adult) male performer. 

A lot has been said and written about the impact of Off The Wall, and listening to it today it’s easy to gloss over just how fresh and innovative this album was for the times. Not only was it reflective of the funk, soul and disco vibe that was building in his work but it also offered hope for an artist on the cusp of a new decade of growth.

With its percussive and bass intro, Don’t Stop ‘Til You Get Enough beckons the listener in as Michael delivers his spoken intro. Perhaps the most intriguing aspect of this 15 second intro is that you don’t know where the song is going to go. Then with what would become a trademark scream the music comes to life with a driving beat, lush strings, and teasing guitar. Michael’s falsetto is flawless on this track. Dripping and smooth the lead and background vocals draw out phrases and add accents in a way that is immediately catchy. With each passing verse and chorus the intensity of the song builds to the bridge, and the song steps up to another level. Much love and dedication is given to the delivery and arrangement of this song, with strings countering each other, and that non-stop wall of percussion that just shuffles the song along.

The more traditional disco groove of Rock With You allows Michael’s voice to float through the verses in anticipation of a driving chorus. Again the production and arrangement sees Quincy Jones bring his ability to sew together hints of jazz with a funk groove, all topped with Jackson singing with a sense of joy and excitement.

With the gear shifted to funk Jackson delivers the frenetic and hurried Workin’ Day and Night. And his falsetto delivers the vocal with ease as he expresses frustration at not getting the good loving he craves. With blasting horns and piano stabs the track is a dizzy hypnotic journey that is too good to sit still to.

The bass work on Get On The Floor is second to none as Louis Johnson (co-writer on the track) runs his hands all over the fret board in a flurry of funk. With a sparse arrangement of just bass, strings and vocals (later embellished with overdubs of guitars and horns in subsequent pressings) the song is just pure energy. Mixing his upper and mid voice, Michael delivers the vocals with a sense of abandon and teases out the lines. At the breakdown Jackson uses his voice as percussion, whispering and grunting as the section builds and builds to its climax. The joy of this album is evident completely in this track especially at the 3:38 mark where Jackson laughs caught in the moment. A spontaneous moment that in later years would have been removed and sacrificed for a more polished take.

The groove doesn’t let up as another party jam springs to life in the shape of Off The Wall. Layered with musical and vocal hooks, Michael’s own harmonies leave his brothers in their dust. Rich and velvety the vocal performance just oozes off the record.

Girlfriend, penned by Paul McCartney, has Michael taking on Paul’s trademark arrangements and “woo hoos” and making them his own. With its pop sensibilities on full display the track sounds terribly dated now.

Heartbreak hasn’t been captured on record quite like it is on She’s Out Of My Life. From the melodramatic string intro, to the crying guitar licks the song goes for the heartstrings from the first beat. Showing maturity in his vocals Michael delivers an impassioned performance complete with real tears and a break in the voice – sincere in the recording, more showman on stage SOOML became a staple ballad for many tours.

With its jazz feel I Can’t Help It has Jackson taking a Stevie Wonder penned track and making you forget who wrote it from the first refrain. With such ease Jackson’s voice trails up and down his register, scats here and there and then soars the closing minute before floating back down to earth. If anyone ever questions Michael’s ability to sing – this is the track to leave them awestruck.

It’s The Falling in Love is pop at its best. Dueting with Patti Austin, Michael blends the soul of R&B with a pop sensibility. And employing a technique he would use time and time again with his duets, Jackson puts his vocals on par with Patti to the point where the casual listener may forget the song is actually a duet.

Closing the record with Burn This Disco Out not only signalled an end of an era but also hinted to the future. Thankfully because it is infused more with funk than disco the song holds up fairly well to this day. Again Jackson sings with a sense of joy and energy that makes the whole album such a fan favourite.

Held by many as his shining moment as an R&B artist, Off The Wall sounds just as vibrant 30 years later as it did the first time it was played.

Swa