Giovanni777 said:

He created his style which was dubbed NJS. However, the core elements of what makes NJS existed before his work with Keith Sweat and Guy. So, it depends on how you look at it. I always credit Full Force with laying the foundation of NJS. Listen to their work from '85-'86. People were still copping that style in 1992.

and that "yep yep" that teddy says on some songs?
it was first heard on Kool Moe Dee's "Let's Go"

funny.right now i'm playing "The Future" by Guy.

Adisa said:

I remember telling one of my friends this very thing way back when and
he disagreed with me. I agree Full Force planted the seeds but Teddy
led the movement.

Full Force came around 1984 with Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam so I think you're onto something. Teddy came through in '85 with "The Show" but it was mainly hip-hop though it went to the same direction Full Force was going... didn't Full Force produce "Roxanne" for UTFO? If so, they definitely came before Teddy lol

Teddy did lead the New Jack Swing movement though... I call him a co-creator.

midiscover said:

huh?

Adisa said:

It's reportedly about both....Since Teddy created the actual production style (see Keith Sweat's Make It Last Forever album) it makes since that his story would take center place in any movie about the New Jack Swing era...

Adisa said:

Nah...

Timmy84 said:

Yeah, but them coming out before Teddy has nothing to do with New Jack Swing...In fact, Full Force's R&B production was more of a nod to the Time (ie Prince) than anything else...

Teddy was his own man...He created New Jack Swing and there's not many people who would even disagree with that...His impact was vastly greater than anything Full Force could even dream of doing...And this is coming from someone that actually liked those jherri curl wearing fools...lol
[Edited 3/17/10 22:21pm]

murph said:

Those guys wore out that fucking activator, didn't they?

phunkdaddy said:

Maybe, but I don't think so. Look at how much of the New Jack Swing sound Teddy already had when he produced "Go See the Doctor," which was released in '86.

as many have mentioned, a documentry on this would be great but a movie?

ok I wont hold my breath
[Edited 3/18/10 4:56am]

murph said:

If you consider "I Wonder If I take You Home", "Unselfish Lover", "Roxanne, Roxanne," and "Alice (I want you Just for Me)" to be a nod to Prince and The Time then that's on you. I don't hear it. but I do hera all those elemtns in Tteddy's music and other NJS giants like Al B. Sure, Dallas Austin and Devante Swing. Most NJS producers have pointed to Prince as one of their main influences, but I think that's more in being the one-man-band which became a staple of NJS producers...playing every note and every sound and making every arrangement.

this thread has taken an interesting turn

I never really thought about Full Force's contribution to NJS,but now that I think about it,many of their songs do sound like New Jack Swing! That style of music combines a fast hip-hop beat with R&B....something that Full force had been doing since the beginning.

SoulAlive said:

I've been giving FF their NJS props on the org for years. Wherev'e you been? Their swinging James Brown inspired hip-hop beats and orchestra hits (NJS staples), rapped verses and sung hooks on UTFO albums, stripping down the tracks to bassline and beat with the synth embellishment instead of repetitive chords...all the fundamnetals os NJS that they were doing since the mid 80 before Teddy and Uptown MCA. The only thing about FF is the way they treated the mixess of their backgroud vocals and harmonies. They kept those pure where as the NJS producers after them processed the shit out of them with harmonizers and compression.

One other thing about the early versions and origins of NJS as it pertains to Prince. Jimmy Jam and terry Lewis have openly admitted that they were fans of what FF was doing. There’s a soundbite/ interview from them on one of Full Force’s’ latest recordings where they even say so.

Jam and Lewis copped a bit from FF's style when they made Janet’s Control lp. I’ve been saying on the org for years that some of those songs sound like they could’ve easily been on Lisa Lisa’s debut in 1985. Listen to any FF production from ’85, and then listen to “Control”, “What Have You Done For Me Lately”, and “When I think Of You”. This is where NJS elements and Minneapolis Sound elements come together. Listen to the chord progressions from FF’s “All In My Mind” from ’87 and then New Edition’s “Can You Stand The Rain” from ’88. Its the same, LOL, and I always play a medley on my piano at home with those two songs.

Adisa said:

Nah...I consider Full Force's own material to be a nod to the Time (Prince's blacker sound) not the stuff they did for Lisa Lisa Cult Jam or UTFO..Hell, they even did a cover of the Time's "Girl"...lol.....Just check out one of their songs below..."Love Is For Suckas"

At around 4:08 you can def. here the "Time" sound...

http://www.youtube.com/wa...yHmS6euUQo
[Edited 3/18/10 12:35pm]

SoulAlive said:

True lol

Great discussion and I can agree with Full Force but y'all don't forget about Kashif from the same time ass Full Force.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Oh yeah another big contributor.

Timmy84 said:

LOL, I just noticed I put "ass" !

LittleBLUECorvette said:

I was gonna say something but I said "nah..."

Timmy84 said:

LOL ...

Also, major influences in the New Jack Swing sound

Timex Social Club / Club Nouveau
Jame 'D-Train" Williams
The System
(David Townsend) Surface

Adisa said:

I don't get the Time reference either with FF songs. I Wonder if i take you
home, Unselfish Lover,Temporary Love Thing,and Head to Toe have nothing
to do with The Time. Those are New Jack songs before the term New Jack
was conceived. Like you stated also a lot of the NJS and newer producers
who listed Prince as an influence was more as a nod to him being in complete
control of his music. I know D'Angelo once stated that.

phunkdaddy said:

Exactly. That term was applied directly to what Teddy was doing with Keith Sweat and Guy, but the core elements of the genre were around years before. So it's easy and accurate to call Teddy the King of New Jack Swing. That doesn't mean he actually created the genre.

Elvis = King of Rock and Roll, not the creator and Lil Richard will always let you know. Shut up!

MJ = King of Pop, not the creator

Aretha = Queen of Soul, not the creator

Adisa said:

First off while they had elements, Lisa Lisa and Full Force sounds nothing like what Teddy did keith and Bobby Brown, Full Force shit sounded like they loved that big beat drum a lil too much. Teddy shit sounded like Gap Band/Solar mixed with James Brown drum samples, and Teddy using that Roland synth in the middle part.

qvgangsta18 said:

I don't believe anybody said it did. Just like what Al B. Sure and Dallas Austin had their brand of NJS that was different from FF, as did Teddy, Jam and Lewis, and LaFACE.

I had British Knights in `90

http://www.youtube.com/wa...WK_Josc0Og

NJS from 1973!

HrdwcH said:

New Jack Swing is nothin but stripped down funk anyways.