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Thread started 08/09/09 9:49am

midnightmover

Michael Jackson Reality Check

An intelligent and honest blog I found online. The shameful thing is that this even needs to be said.

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Michael Jackson Pedophile Reality Check: Is It Mean to Suspect that Michael Jackson Might Have Been a Pedophile?


The short answer is no, it’s not mean or irrational.

Under normal circumstances nobody gets to do what Michael Jackson did (bring unrelated children into his bedroom overnight). No adult man gets to do that without suspicion cast upon him by other adults. It’s simply not sane to give adult males that kind of latitude with the most vulnerable among us. And for Jackson to engage in that behavior—bringing children into his bedroom overnight—and then act put-upon by the public for being suspicious that he was a pedophile is outrageous.

An analogy: Every weekend a suburban woman goes to a street corner known to be frequented by prostitutes. She gets picked up by cruising men who drive her to nearby motels. Before they return her to the same street corner, they give her money. She tells people that she never has sex with the men. Never touches them. Never blows them. Never lets them put their hands on her. She just talks to them. They simply drive around. She feels compassion for the men. They’re lonely. She tells them about Jesus. She wants to help them. She doesn’t understand why all those around her suspect she’s a whore.

Jackson engaged in equally outrageous (and suspicion generating) actions—many of them characteristic of pedophiles—and then he is shocked—shocked!—that people might suspect that he is, well, a pedophile. And the power disparity between Jackson and the children who visited his bedroom for “sleep-overs” is enormous. A wealthy man in his forties was bringing children unrelated to him into his bedroom alone overnight. A person needs to absorb the import of that before suggesting that the suspicion directed toward Jackson is unreasonable and based on animus.

Furthermore, to treat pedophile-suspicion directed toward Michael Jackson as a form of persecution is to tell people it is wrong to speak plainly about what is evident. Jackson lived his life in ways characteristic of a pedophile. It doesn’t mean that he was one. It means that there is a real probability that he was one. No adult male gets to bring unrelated children into his bedroom alone overnight without suspicion being rendered by other adults. It would be a monstrous dereliction of duty toward the children involved not to cast that suspicion. And it would be Orwellian not to speak to others plainly about it.

I understand “innocent until proven guilty.” But I sure the hell wouldn’t have had him anywhere near my children. And the children that he did bring around him were oftentimes hugely vulnerable (cancer patients; boys of poor single mothers). An adult single male obsessed with Peter Pan and decorating his bedroom with children’s toys was bringing kids into his bedroom for “sleep-overs.” That should set off five alarm predator worries in any sane parent who is not stupid or tempted by greed. And Jackson showed zero evidence of having any serious impulse control. The older I get, the less patience I have for bullshitters. Michael Jackson was, in my view, a huge bullshitter who got away with spectacular amounts of bullshit. It’s like Rush Limbaugh, G. Beck, and Jimmy Swaggart. Everyday, bullshitters look at their bank accounts and say, “How stupid people are!” This, in my view, was what Jackson was doing. He was using his fame and wealth and “mystery power” to get away with things. It’s an old game. If you dress like a glitzy version of Captain Crunch (as Chris Rock noted that Jackson did), or put on the clothing of a priest, or have money, then you can cast spells on people and get away with stuff.

Jackson was a spell-caster.

Below is a video of reporter Martin Bashir speaking of Jackson. Bashir illustrates the problem. Note Bashir’s rhetorical tone-down of what it means to be a single man bringing young boys into his bedroom for “sleep-overs,” and his logically fallacious “I never saw anything” obscurantism. His emotional solemnity is also cloying. It’s all slight of hand and euphemism. Of course he wouldn’t have seen anything. It means nothing. I have a great deal of contempt for people who use language in ways that distort, rather than clarify, an issue. It’s like using “enhanced interrogation” for “torture.” Michael Jackson was suspected of being a pedophile because he brought vulnerable children into his orbit and took them into his bedroom overnight alone. At least Bashir, as a journalist, could describe things accurately. But, of course, he doesn’t. But the rest of us should.

“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #1 posted 08/09/09 9:54am

Angelic1302

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Um... let me warm up my vocals
Me ME ME ME ME...U U U U U!
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Reply #2 posted 08/09/09 9:57am

midnightmover

Here's another intelligent and thoughtful open ended piece from New York Times writer Bob Herbert. This one may be a bit too smart for some readers.

Behind the Facade

Bob Herbert

Meeting Michael Jackson in the mid-1980s was one of the creepier experiences of my life. I was an editor at The Daily News and had to present him with an award in a large room with just a handful of onlookers and a photographer at Madison Square Garden.

I wasn’t put off by the fact that Jackson, then in his mid-20s, couldn’t make small talk. Lots of people have trouble with that. There was something about his overall behavior that weirded me out. He seemed, even then, to be a person who was trying with all of his being to step outside of reality and leave it behind.

Emmanuel Lewis, the child star of the hit TV series “Webster,” was with Jackson that evening. The undersized Lewis was probably 13 at the time, but he looked much younger, maybe 7 or 8.

Jackson seemed to relate only to Lewis. He made faces at the tiny boy and giggled as Lewis hopped around and climbed over furniture, much to Jackson’s delight. I remember thinking as I left the Garden that Jackson had treated Lewis almost as a pet.

I’ve never heard any suggestion of anything improper about the relationship between Jackson and Lewis. But what I wish I had thought more about in those long-ago days of Michael-mania was the era of extreme immaturity and grotesque irresponsibility that was already well under way in America. The craziness played out on a shockingly broad front and Jackson’s life, among many others, would prove to be a shining and ultimately tragic example.

Ronald Reagan was president, making promises he couldn’t keep about taxes and deficits and allowing the readings of a West Coast astrologer to shape his public schedule. The movie “Wall Street” would soon appear, accurately reflecting the nation’s wholesale acceptance of unrestrained greed and other excesses of the rich and powerful.

In neighborhoods through much of black America, crack was taking a fearful toll. Young criminals were arming themselves with ever more powerful weapons, and prison garb was used to set fashion trends.

Motown was the label that gave us the Jackson 5. But when Michael and his brothers released their first album in 1969, the label had already reached its creative peak and most of the best work — the stunning originality of the Miracles, the Marvelettes, Mary Wells, Martha and the Vandellas, the Supremes, the Temptations, and others — had been done. Hip-hop would soon appear, and then the violence and misogyny of gangsta rap.

All kinds of restraints were coming off. It was almost as if the adults had gone into hiding. The deregulation that we were told would be great for the economy was being applied to the culture as a whole. Women could be treated as sex objects again as misogyny, hardly limited to hip-hop, went mainstream. (Have you looked at network television lately, or listened to the radio?) Astonishing numbers of men abandoned their children with impunity. Most of the nation seemed fine with the idea of going to war without a draft and without raising taxes.

In many ways we descended as a society into a fantasyland, trying to leave the limits and consequences and obligations of the real world behind. Politicians stopped talking about the poor. We built up staggering amounts of debt and called it an economic boom. We shipped jobs overseas by the millions without ever thinking seriously about how to replace them. We let New Orleans drown.

Jackson was the perfect star for the era, the embodiment of fantasy gone wild. He tried to carve himself up into another person, but, of course, there was the same Michael Jackson underneath — talented but psychologically disabled to the point where he was a danger to himself and others.

Reality is unforgiving. There is no escape. Behind the Jackson facade was the horror of child abuse. Court records and reams of well-documented media accounts contain a stream of serious allegations of child sex abuse and other inappropriate behavior with very young boys. Jackson, a multimillionaire megastar, was excused as an eccentric. Small children were delivered into his company, to spend the night in his bed, often by their parents.

One case of alleged pedophilia against Jackson, the details of which would make your hair stand on end, was settled for a reported $25 million. He beat another case in court.

The Michael-mania that has erupted since Jackson’s death — not just an appreciation of his music, but a giddy celebration of his life — is yet another spasm of the culture opting for fantasy over reality. We don’t want to look under the rock that was Jackson’s real life.

As with so many other things, we don’t want to know.
“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #3 posted 08/09/09 10:09am

Angelic1302

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http://www.towleroad.com/...ckson.html

erie! eek Does this prove that he is a E.T. or that we do come and go?
Um... let me warm up my vocals
Me ME ME ME ME...U U U U U!
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Reply #4 posted 08/09/09 10:13am

midnightmover

Angelic1302. You've just made two posts that really have nothing to do with the topic. Are you feeling okay?
“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #5 posted 08/09/09 10:18am

funkteer

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It does seem that a mythical, fantastical version of Michael Jackson's life is the story that people want to tell. His music and performances obviously touched the lives of many.I tear up when I think of his talent, and his potential, and of how he ultimately destroyed himself. As a society , our first priority is to protect the children. We seem to be failing miserably.
"It's hard 4 me 2 say what's right when all I want to do is wrong..."
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Reply #6 posted 08/09/09 10:43am

unique

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Michael Jackson had jab to curb sex urges for young boys

*
*

EXCLUSIVE by Kate Mansey in Los Angeles 9/08/2009
Michael Jackson (pic: Getty)

A doctor has revealed how he prescribed Michael Jackson a “chemical castration” drug to suppress his sexual urges towards under-age boys.

Jacko – notorious for sharing his bed with young boys – took a powerful drug given to sex offenders to cool his sexual appetite.

The drug - Depo Provera - was prescribed to him by highly-respected Dr Alimorad Farshchian, who was concerned about Jackson’s behaviour. Normally used for birth control, it restricts men’s flow of testosterone-producing brain hormones.

And asked if Dr Farshchian’s had prescribed drugs to Jacko to curb his sex drive, his spokesman confirmed: “Yes, that’s exactly it. He was trying to help Michael.”

Jacko first met the doctor in 2001 when he sought treatment for a broken foot after slipping on stairs at his Neverland ranch.

But unlike other medics who Jacko latched on to, Dr Farshchian, 47, refused to pander to his demands for non-stop prescriptions. He tried to wean Jacko off Demerol, the narcotic painkiller widely linked to his death six weeks ago.

Sources say Dr Farshchian began prescribing Depo Provera after he became concerned at Jacko’s attitude to young boys at his infamous Neverland sleepovers.

Ian Barkley, Jacko’s official photographer between 2002-06, told the Sunday Mirror: “Dr Farshchian was trying to help Michael. One treatment and concoction led to another. It was a slow progression to try to help Michael suppress some of his issues.”"

Dr Farshchian went on tour with Jacko in 2002-3 and was with him in Berlin when Jacko infamously dangled baby Prince Michael II from a fourth-floor balcony.

At one point Jackson even moved into the doctor’s £800,0000 home in Bay Harbour Island, Miami. Ian added: “Dr Farshchian was very close to Michael.”

Of Jacko’s sleepovers, where children drank “Jesus Juice” wine from cola cans, the photographer said: “People in Michael’s circle thought that something inappropriate was going on when they’d all sleep together at Neverland Ranch.

“The adults around him made a big deal about them all sleeping on the bed in the movie theatre.”

But he said nobody dared challenge the star because the child-like Jacko saw himself as being the same age as his guests.

Advertisement - article continues below »

Ian added: “They were peers. That’s how Michael felt about it. He’d buy them things and give them sips of wine to show off to his peer group.

“He lost out on being a 12-year-old, so he’d get wild and show off for his buddies – even though the boys were still 12 and he was in his 40s. It’s hard to understand if you weren’t there.”"

Ian said that among those at the sleepovers was Frank Cascio, now 28, who was part of Jackson’s entourage from the age of five and toured the world with him in the 1990s.

“Frank would sleep in Michael’s bed all the time when he was younger,” said Ian. “And so did his little brother, who was about 12.” A source close to Dr Farshchian said: “Michael just saw himself as a teenager doing teenage things and not as a predator.

“It was really Dr Farshchian, when he became aware of the sleepovers, who planted the idea in Michael’s head that he might have a problem.

“As a responsible doctor, Dr Farshchian thought these tendencies were something Michael might address. Dr Farshchian didn’t necessarily think there was abuse going on – but he was concerned there were inappropriate feelings towards minors which could be addressed.”

The medic and Jackson grew apart following the fall-out from Jacko’s interview with TV’s Martin Bashir in 2003 which revealed Jacko had children sleeping in his bed – and plunged the star into crisis.

A source said: “When the Bashir documentary came out Michael became severely depressed. He turned back to his old doctors who would prescribe him whatever he wanted and Dr Farshchian wouldn’t do that.

“He was determined to do the right thing for Michael even if it meant disagreeing with him.”

Jacko’s five-month trial in 2005 heard allegations that Neverland was “all about booze, pornography and sex with boys”. He was cleared of sexually abusing Gavin Arvizo, 13, whose family moved to Neverland after being befriended by Jacko.

In 1994, Jacko paid £13million to Jordy Chandler, a former Neverland guest who accused him of performing lewd acts on him when he was 12. And in 1996 Jackson paid Jason Francia, son of Neverland maid Blanca Francia, more than £1million over claims Jacko touched his crotch.

It’s not clear how long the star had injections of Depo Provera.

Last night Dr Farshchian, an expert in arthritis pain relief who has written text books about orthopaedic medicine, declined to discuss Jacko’s treatment. But he said: “When I heard of his death it was the saddest moment of my life. I’m proud I met Mr Jackson.”

kate.mansey@sundaymirror.co.uk



http://www.mirror.co.uk/n...-21583054/
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Reply #7 posted 08/09/09 10:44am

unique

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Doctor 'gave Jackson sex drug'

Sunday, August 9 2009, 13:56 BST

By Anisa Kadri
Doctor 'gave Jackson sex drug'

WENN

A doctor has claimed to have prescribed Michael Jackson a drug to contain his sexual yearning for young boys.

Dr Alimorad Farshchian reportedly supplied the singer with Depo-Provera, a contraceptive drug inhibiting brain hormones that produce testosterone, reports the Sunday Mirror.

The doctor’s spokesman said: "He was trying to help Michael."

Allegedly, he had become concerned by the sleepovers for young children Jackson was having at his Neverland ranch.

Ian Barkley, Jackson's official photographer from 2002 to 2006, said: "As a responsible doctor, Dr Farshchian thought these tendencies were something Michael might address. Dr Farshchian didn’t necessarily think there was abuse going on – but he was concerned there were inappropriate feelings towards minors which could be addressed."

He added: "Dr Farshchian was very close to Michael."

Dr Farshchian had previously been on tour with Jackson, with the star even reportedly moving into his house for a while.

The medic grew apart from Jackson during the last years of his life, because he reportedly turned to the doctors who prescribed him "whatever he wanted".

Dr Farshchian, who specialises in arthritis pain relief, refused to discuss Jackson’s treatment but said: "When I heard of his death it was the saddest moment of my life. I’m proud I met Mr Jackson."


http://www.digitalspy.co....-drug.html
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Reply #8 posted 08/09/09 11:05am

Angelic1302

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sorry if i went off topic



I will not judge him...

Who am I to judge...


There is always two sides to every story - will we know the truth of what really went down or it's details -no b/c we weren't there holding a light

Do I think something happend - no and if so, it's not my business - it was up to the parents to protect their children - I personally think they were looking for a case that they could win and he was dumb enough to fall for it -who in their right mind would leave their children with a stranger -MJ or not? As a parent, I would have to be there no matter how famous this person is -I would have And I'm sure if it was true, MJ would have been beaten to a bloody pulp or killed when found out.

He did indeed destroy himself by letting people too much into his life or lifestyle. He was a very giving soul and showed a lot of compassion and love and thought he could change the world. And he did. The only mistake was that he didn't have limitations -he didn't tell people that's enough, he just let them speak and it got carried away. I'm sure it affected him a great deal.

Let's put it like this- My analogy: If a baker bakes a wedding cake and leaves it in a locked room with a hungry child or man -he will touch it to eat it - who's at fault here? The hungry child or man who knows the cake wasn't his when the baker knows the child or man is hungry or the baker who put the cake in the room with a hungry child or man? It's all the baker's fault b/c he had to protect the cake so it could make it to the wedding. As an adult, protecting children is first and famous or not -they should have that fear to 'protect and have that known knowledge' - You can't protect your children from everything in the world but you can try with all your might.


As for him and his other life - the life of a perfect entertainer - I would say that his music and talent that was enjoyed and still is by more than 4 generations - me personally, I know with all my heart, and I'm sure that others feel this way too, that we have definately lost one of the most talented entertainers ever! Gone so tragically, Gone too soon!
[Edited 8/9/09 11:22am]
Um... let me warm up my vocals
Me ME ME ME ME...U U U U U!
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Reply #9 posted 08/09/09 11:22am

paisleypark4

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Angelic1302 said:



Exactly. Bashir got checked. Thought he pulled a fast one.
Straight Jacket Funk Affair
Album plays and love for vinyl records.
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Reply #10 posted 08/09/09 11:25am

Timmy84

The first video showed how two-faced Bashir is. How you gonna praise MJ in his face, then call him a disturbing individual in public?
[Edited 8/9/09 11:25am]
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Reply #11 posted 08/09/09 11:43am

ernestsewell

paisleypark4 said:

Angelic1302 said:

:video snip:


Exactly. Bashir got checked. Thought he pulled a fast one.


I was glad when I saw this on television. There is one of two things that happened in this unseen footage of Bashir complementing MJ.

1) He was sincere about his words and really was surprised and joyed at seeing MJ interact with his kids, or

2) He was buttering up MJ with good words, then going in for the kill on other questions. It was just enough flattery to keep MJ's ego going in order to have him answer the other questions Bashir had.

Regardless, it was disappointing how Bashir edited his story. He should have been a better reporter than that. When he edited and showed the story as he did, then it was nothing more than tabloid fodder. And it started the whole trial of MJ, for which he was found not guilty. There's just no way that story was fair and balanced when all he showed was MJ being possessive of his kid's identity, or MJ having problems feeding Blanket, or anything else. He said "I never saw MJ hurt a child", but then brings up everything ELSE to try and twist it into something perverse. MJ called him out on it a few times, but Bashir kept digging for something.

Now while I'm not defending any pedophile, there's just never been proof that MJ was anything more than a dude with some porn in his house, and a drug addiction. That could be said of the people living to your left, or to your right. You just never know about people, but to slant someone for the sake of it, well shame on you, Mr. Bashir. I can't believe ABC kept him on for Nightline. He should be working for TMZ or be Perez's bitch instead.
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Reply #12 posted 08/09/09 12:09pm

TD3

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New York Times Op-Ed columnist Mr. Bob Herbert piece, "Beyond the Facade" was spot on.
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Reply #13 posted 08/09/09 12:32pm

funkteer

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I was a Child Protective Services worker for 7 years and one of the reasons I had to get out was the the FACT that most child molesters get away with molesting children. These are some of the things I learned:

-This crime usually has no witnesses, and the perp is usually smart enough not to leave behind his DNA. They don't molest ALL the children they come into contact with. They pick their victims very carefully. The assertive kid, with strong, very involved parents, is not a good victim.

-Children usually do not lie about being molested. The sad fact is that most don't tell at all, or tell years later. When they do tell, many are not believed. I have see many mothers, and grandmothers blame the child. They kept their man, and let us take their children into foster care. One mother let us keep her 12 year old daughter in foster care, calling her a liar and a whore, and let her husband remain in the home with her other two daughters.

-When you have a crime where a child is the only witness, any lawyer, let alone a millionaire's lawyer, would have no problem casting reasonable doubt. When the children finally tell, often months or years later, they don't remember the date, or the details. They make very good witnesses for the DEFENSE. That is why we have so many sexual predators living in our neighborhoods, free to molest more children. Poor child molesters get away with this crime, just as easy as rich child molesters.

-From what I have seen and read, there is no successful rehabilitation or treatment for sex offenders.

-Food for thought.... an insurance company paid out $25,000,000 to make the first case go away. Has anyone here tried to get $1000 out of an insurance company for a fender bender? Hell, the insurance company for the MJ's London concerts doesn't look like they want to pay a dime because he died doing drugs.

-Martin Bashir did not force MJ to admit that it is the most beautiful thing in the world to sleep with children, etc. That came right out of the horse's mouth.

-As a child welfare worker, if I had discovered all the drugs that Michael was taking while caring for his own children, I might have removed them from his home, pending his completion of a drug program.



I was a big Jackson 5 and MJ fan growing up, but from following his life's story and the child molestation cases, I have trouble separating the entertainer from the man.



People.... when a child comes to you and tells you that an adult did something to them. Believe the child. Don't be so quick to send your child to sleep overs. Child molesters do not look like monsters. They look like our fathers, grandfathers, brothers, uncles, boyfriends,clergy, teachers of both sexes, even aunts and mothers. The internet has also brought the magnitude of this problem to light, but what are we going to do about it?
"It's hard 4 me 2 say what's right when all I want to do is wrong..."
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Reply #14 posted 08/09/09 12:33pm

whatsgoingon

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Those who thought he was a Pedo in life, will continue to think he is a Pedo in death. The problem is that people are like sheep, in life everyone was calling him names and mocking him because that was the thing to do. Whilst he was alive you would be ridiculed if you called yourself a MJ fan. What has happened over the last month or so is called hypocrisy.
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Reply #15 posted 08/09/09 12:44pm

midnightmover

TD3 said:

New York Times Op-Ed columnist Mr. Bob Herbert piece, "Beyond the Facade" was spot on.

nod And notice how this thread has already illustrated his point. All of the MJ defenders have chosen to talk about Martin Bashir being two faced, thus avoiding facing up to the real issue these pieces are addressing. Right there you have a perfect illustration of what Herbert is talking about. If people don't want to see something, they simply look the other way. Any distraction will do, no matter how transparent. We all know Bashir's two faced, but that's not really the point, is it?
“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #16 posted 08/09/09 12:49pm

midnightmover

funkteer said:

I was a Child Protective Services worker for 7 years and one of the reasons I had to get out was the the FACT that most child molesters get away with molesting children. These are some of the things I learned:

-This crime usually has no witnesses, and the perp is usually smart enough not to leave behind his DNA. They don't molest ALL the children they come into contact with. They pick their victims very carefully. The assertive kid, with strong, very involved parents, is not a good victim.

-Children usually do not lie about being molested. The sad fact is that most don't tell at all, or tell years later. When they do tell, many are not believed. I have see many mothers, and grandmothers blame the child. They kept their man, and let us take their children into foster care. One mother let us keep her 12 year old daughter in foster care, calling her a liar and a whore, and let her husband remain in the home with her other two daughters.

-When you have a crime where a child is the only witness, any lawyer, let alone a millionaire's lawyer, would have no problem casting reasonable doubt. When the children finally tell, often months or years later, they don't remember the date, or the details. They make very good witnesses for the DEFENSE. That is why we have so many sexual predators living in our neighborhoods, free to molest more children. Poor child molesters get away with this crime, just as easy as rich child molesters.

-From what I have seen and read, there is no successful rehabilitation or treatment for sex offenders.

-Food for thought.... an insurance company paid out $25,000,000 to make the first case go away. Has anyone here tried to get $1000 out of an insurance company for a fender bender? Hell, the insurance company for the MJ's London concerts doesn't look like they want to pay a dime because he died doing drugs.

-Martin Bashir did not force MJ to admit that it is the most beautiful thing in the world to sleep with children, etc. That came right out of the horse's mouth.

-As a child welfare worker, if I had discovered all the drugs that Michael was taking while caring for his own children, I might have removed them from his home, pending his completion of a drug program.



I was a big Jackson 5 and MJ fan growing up, but from following his life's story and the child molestation cases, I have trouble separating the entertainer from the man.



People.... when a child comes to you and tells you that an adult did something to them. Believe the child. Don't be so quick to send your child to sleep overs. Child molesters do not look like monsters. They look like our fathers, grandfathers, brothers, uncles, boyfriends,clergy, teachers of both sexes, even aunts and mothers. The internet has also brought the magnitude of this problem to light, but what are we going to do about it?

Thank you for this. The sad fact is the vast majority of paedophiles get away with it. Same goes for rapists. What makes it all the more tragic is that the victims are made to feel like the villains.
“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #17 posted 08/09/09 1:40pm

utopia7

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children are innocent but they also LIE pushed by their parents to do so especially when GREED comes to mind...especially when they see the individual
is meek in character. With this said, my only wish for Michael was the first time this came about he steer clear of children ALTOGETHER stay with his nieces & nephews until he decided to have and take care of his own children.


It's easy for people to say, yes he did it simply because of how he looked or oddities. But for those who walk among you the ones you TRUST be it your minister/preacher example you'd trust them in a heartbeat! because they appease
your mind. Whatever the case Michael put faith in the WRONG people resulting in
a sad frame of mind.I doubt it was easy being the most famous person in the world.


Amazing even in death keep on stirthepot let it rest in peace the so-called victims have not uttered a word.Furthermore, if your child was touched NO !amount of money could compensate damages done a parent would want jail time for for justice...Not MONEY
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Reply #18 posted 08/09/09 2:01pm

tangerine7

utopia7 said:

children are innocent but they also LIE pushed by their parents to do so especially when GREED comes to mind...especially when they see the individual
is meek in character. With this said, my only wish for Michael was the first time this came about he steer clear of children ALTOGETHER stay with his nieces & nephews until he decided to have and take care of his own children.


It's easy for people to say, yes he did it simply because of how he looked or oddities. But for those who walk among you the ones you TRUST be it your minister/preacher example you'd trust them in a heartbeat! because they appease
your mind. Whatever the case Michael put faith in the WRONG people resulting in
a sad frame of mind.I doubt it was easy being the most famous person in the world.


Amazing even in death keep on stirthepot let it rest in peace the so-called victims have not uttered a word.Furthermore, if your child was touched NO !amount of money could compensate damages done a parent would want jail time for for justice...Not MONEY


BRAVO.
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Reply #19 posted 08/09/09 2:11pm

unique

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utopia7 said:

children are innocent but they also LIE pushed by their parents to do so especially when GREED comes to mind...especially when they see the individual
is meek in character. With this said, my only wish for Michael was the first time this came about he steer clear of children ALTOGETHER stay with his nieces & nephews until he decided to have and take care of his own children.


It's easy for people to say, yes he did it simply because of how he looked or oddities. But for those who walk among you the ones you TRUST be it your minister/preacher example you'd trust them in a heartbeat! because they appease
your mind. Whatever the case Michael put faith in the WRONG people resulting in
a sad frame of mind.I doubt it was easy being the most famous person in the world.


Amazing even in death keep on stirthepot let it rest in peace the so-called victims have not uttered a word.Furthermore, if your child was touched NO !amount of money could compensate damages done a parent would want jail time for for justice...Not MONEY


jordy chandlers dad said in a recent interview that he wasn't short of money being a hollywood dentist (and mj's dentist) and did it as he thought $20 (18 to jordy and 1m to each parent) would stop him from doing it again. the payout helped jordy to some degree to build a successful business and keep out of the spotlight, whereas for example debbie rowe still pops up from time to time in interviews when the money is running out

the lot of them involved in the second case seemed as bad as each other, one criminal accusing another and back again. a complete farce

the thing is there plenty of rich people in this world, many far richer than MJ but you don't hear about them getting involved in any dodgy scandals like this, so if the stories are made up for money, how come MJ is the only person in the world to have such a problem dealing with it when he has plenty of money to deal with things properly and legally?

but like you say, any normal person would have learned a lesson andy kept away from kids after that, not invite them to thier house for sleep overs and on stage at concerts etc, he just brought it all on himself and only has himself to blame. he didn't lose his childhood, he just had a different one from others, but there are plenty of kids in the world who have a worse childhood, but they don't act like kids when they are adults and play with kids instead of adults

the point someone made that not all peadophiles and rapists abuse everyone is the best way to put it, these people look for victims and only abuse a tiny percentage of people they meet, the ones they think they can get away with. so whilst hundreds of kids may have slept over and nothing happened to them, doesn't mean something didn't happen to some of them. as an adult in the dating game, how many girls do you need to chat up before you find one that takes you on? it's the same numbers game to some degree
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Reply #20 posted 08/09/09 2:15pm

RnBAmbassador

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Excellent thread. Many people I know have decided a long time ago to give Michael Jackson a pass on his bizzare/wacko behaviour.
He kinda lived above and beyond the law. He used his oddities to beat the criminal case. There were several out of court settlements, ditto with Robert Kelly.
Jackson had a dysfunctional childhood - but hell his dad molded him into the world's biggest entertainer and all the way to the bank. Who is to feel for sorry for that. Jackson made the choices to change his skin color, disfiure his face with plastic surgery, and wear make-up and wigs.
To honor his entertainment excellence is one thing, but to think that sleeping with little boys is cool is another. The thread starter observations were spot on, period!
Music Royalty in Motion
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Reply #21 posted 08/09/09 2:40pm

utopia7

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unique said:

utopia7 said:

children are innocent but they also LIE pushed by their parents to do so especially when GREED comes to mind...especially when they see the individual
is meek in character. With this said, my only wish for Michael was the first time this came about he steer clear of children ALTOGETHER stay with his nieces & nephews until he decided to have and take care of his own children.


It's easy for people to say, yes he did it simply because of how he looked or oddities. But for those who walk among you the ones you TRUST be it your minister/preacher example you'd trust them in a heartbeat! because they appease
your mind. Whatever the case Michael put faith in the WRONG people resulting in
a sad frame of mind.I doubt it was easy being the most famous person in the world.


Amazing even in death keep on stirthepot let it rest in peace the so-called victims have not uttered a word.Furthermore, if your child was touched NO !amount of money could compensate damages done a parent would want jail time for for justice...Not MONEY


jordy chandlers dad said in a recent interview that he wasn't short of money being a hollywood dentist (and mj's dentist) and did it as he thought $20 (18 to jordy and 1m to each parent) would stop him from doing it again. the payout helped jordy to some degree to build a successful business and keep out of the spotlight, whereas for example debbie rowe still pops up from time to time in interviews when the money is running out

the lot of them involved in the second case seemed as bad as each other, one criminal accusing another and back again. a complete farce

the thing is there plenty of rich people in this world, many far richer than MJ but you don't hear about them getting involved in any dodgy scandals like this, so if the stories are made up for money, how come MJ is the only person in the world to have such a problem dealing with it when he has plenty of money to deal with things properly and legally?

but like you say, any normal person would have learned a lesson andy kept away from kids after that, not invite them to thier house for sleep overs and on stage at concerts etc, he just brought it all on himself and only has himself to blame. he didn't lose his childhood, he just had a different one from others, but there are plenty of kids in the world who have a worse childhood, but they don't act like kids when they are adults and play with kids instead of adults

the point someone made that not all peadophiles and rapists abuse everyone is the best way to put it, these people look for victims and only abuse a tiny percentage of people they meet, the ones they think they can get away with. so whilst hundreds of kids may have slept over and nothing happened to them, doesn't mean something didn't happen to some of them. as an adult in the dating game, how many girls do you need to chat up before you find one that takes you on? it's the same numbers game to some degree



Unique you have some points here which can be viewed objectively,there are situations brought upon himself,and I thank you for posting your position in a respectful way.I just at this point want to put the man Michael Jackson to rest and remember the music.
[Edited 8/9/09 14:41pm]
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Reply #22 posted 08/09/09 2:46pm

LightOfArt

Jackson engaged in equally outrageous (and suspicion generating) actions—many of them characteristic of pedophiles—and then he is shocked—shocked!


err Jackson was examined by a psychiatrist hired by the prosecutors during the trial, and the guy said that MJ does not fit into the profile of a pedo and that he is '' a regressed 10 year old ''

One case of alleged pedophilia against Jackson, the details of which would make your hair stand on end


yeah like Chandler's drawing of MJ's penis. which was more of a smurf house. Oh and Chandler also said MJ was circumsized lol

This is just bad and lazy journalism designed for shock value. well not that shocking actually. nothing that has not been said before. but hey they wanna give the sheeps what they wanna hear.
[Edited 8/9/09 15:06pm]
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Reply #23 posted 08/09/09 3:09pm

BklynBabe

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beatdeadhorse
you really can't beat it any deader.

After he was first accused, any parent who left their child with him to sleep overnight put whatever could happened on their own head.

Anyway...he was acquitted, which after all the hype and drama, they STILL couldn't find any actual proof...hundreds of boys sleeping in one man's bed and everyone's suspicious but no one has any proof? GTFOH!

So can we let him rest in peace already?
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Reply #24 posted 08/09/09 5:00pm

lastdecember

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No one will ever know what exactly happend, it can be debated forever, like the Kennedy shooting and conspiracies. Was it all just a plot to derail MJ by the "media" or was it deeper, did something happen, or was it an innocent thing and when parents heard that their child shared a bed with MJ, the $$$ signs went off in their eyes like MJ eyes bugged out at the end of the Thriller video.

To be so blunt, a friend of mine commented on Facebook when everyone was posting about MJ the day he died, he clearly said "The Michael everyone was talking about died about 20 years ago", truth be known he hadnt been the same person or even close to being that which everyone was "missing" since 1987.

So more than anything its terrible and SAD that lost in all this is that a person died way before his time, he was a tragic figure in many respects, he sacrificed many things for his giving, but at the same time had deep problems that were brought on by who knows what that were never taken care of early on.

To be honest had MJ and the JACKSON 5 started up now, in this media scrutiny world we are in, his issues would have been forefront 24/7, much like a Britney has been to this time.

And though peeps dont like to admit it, had Lennon been shot today in this media world it would be getting the MJ coverage, hell, you would know Mark David Chapman's life story and every detail that night if it happend now, and Elvis, well we all know that would get the same coverage too in this time.

So all in all, MJ is a tragic story overall, to his family though he is other things to the public he is alot of other things, but after all this, he is just another human being gone.

"We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F
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Reply #25 posted 08/09/09 5:14pm

BoOTyLiCioUs

funkteer said:

I was a Child Protective Services worker for 7 years and one of the reasons I had to get out was the the FACT that most child molesters get away with molesting children. These are some of the things I learned:

-This crime usually has no witnesses, and the perp is usually smart enough not to leave behind his DNA. They don't molest ALL the children they come into contact with. They pick their victims very carefully. The assertive kid, with strong, very involved parents, is not a good victim.

-Children usually do not lie about being molested. The sad fact is that most don't tell at all, or tell years later. When they do tell, many are not believed. I have see many mothers, and grandmothers blame the child. They kept their man, and let us take their children into foster care. One mother let us keep her 12 year old daughter in foster care, calling her a liar and a whore, and let her husband remain in the home with her other two daughters.

-When you have a crime where a child is the only witness, any lawyer, let alone a millionaire's lawyer, would have no problem casting reasonable doubt. When the children finally tell, often months or years later, they don't remember the date, or the details. They make very good witnesses for the DEFENSE. That is why we have so many sexual predators living in our neighborhoods, free to molest more children. Poor child molesters get away with this crime, just as easy as rich child molesters.

-From what I have seen and read, there is no successful rehabilitation or treatment for sex offenders.

-Food for thought.... an insurance company paid out $25,000,000 to make the first case go away. Has anyone here tried to get $1000 out of an insurance company for a fender bender? Hell, the insurance company for the MJ's London concerts doesn't look like they want to pay a dime because he died doing drugs.

-Martin Bashir did not force MJ to admit that it is the most beautiful thing in the world to sleep with children, etc. That came right out of the horse's mouth.

-As a child welfare worker, if I had discovered all the drugs that Michael was taking while caring for his own children, I might have removed them from his home, pending his completion of a drug program.



I was a big Jackson 5 and MJ fan growing up, but from following his life's story and the child molestation cases, I have trouble separating the entertainer from the man.



People.... when a child comes to you and tells you that an adult did something to them. Believe the child. Don't be so quick to send your child to sleep overs. Child molesters do not look like monsters. They look like our fathers, grandfathers, brothers, uncles, boyfriends,clergy, teachers of both sexes, even aunts and mothers. The internet has also brought the magnitude of this problem to light, but what are we going to do about it?


A lot of the characteristics that you say are that of a pedophile. Child molestors and pedophiles are not interchangable. A pedophile has an average of 240 victims. Most are mentally ill/ have a sexual interest in children and cannot control themselves. Child Molestors are people who have been molested who molest others. It is usually random and they do it out of revenge and anger of what has been done to them. So this can be someone who had inapproiate contact/sex etc. with someone who is five years younger.it is possible that Child Molestors only offend one or a couple of children in their lifetime and have no sexual interest in children what so ever. Like i said early, they are doing it out of anger or revenge of what has been done to them. People need to remember that these terms are not interchangable.
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Reply #26 posted 08/09/09 5:17pm

funkteer

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BoOTyLiCioUs said:

funkteer said:

I was a Child Protective Services worker for 7 years and one of the reasons I had to get out was the the FACT that most child molesters get away with molesting children. These are some of the things I learned:

-This crime usually has no witnesses, and the perp is usually smart enough not to leave behind his DNA. They don't molest ALL the children they come into contact with. They pick their victims very carefully. The assertive kid, with strong, very involved parents, is not a good victim.

-Children usually do not lie about being molested. The sad fact is that most don't tell at all, or tell years later. When they do tell, many are not believed. I have see many mothers, and grandmothers blame the child. They kept their man, and let us take their children into foster care. One mother let us keep her 12 year old daughter in foster care, calling her a liar and a whore, and let her husband remain in the home with her other two daughters.

-When you have a crime where a child is the only witness, any lawyer, let alone a millionaire's lawyer, would have no problem casting reasonable doubt. When the children finally tell, often months or years later, they don't remember the date, or the details. They make very good witnesses for the DEFENSE. That is why we have so many sexual predators living in our neighborhoods, free to molest more children. Poor child molesters get away with this crime, just as easy as rich child molesters.

-From what I have seen and read, there is no successful rehabilitation or treatment for sex offenders.

-Food for thought.... an insurance company paid out $25,000,000 to make the first case go away. Has anyone here tried to get $1000 out of an insurance company for a fender bender? Hell, the insurance company for the MJ's London concerts doesn't look like they want to pay a dime because he died doing drugs.

-Martin Bashir did not force MJ to admit that it is the most beautiful thing in the world to sleep with children, etc. That came right out of the horse's mouth.

-As a child welfare worker, if I had discovered all the drugs that Michael was taking while caring for his own children, I might have removed them from his home, pending his completion of a drug program.



I was a big Jackson 5 and MJ fan growing up, but from following his life's story and the child molestation cases, I have trouble separating the entertainer from the man.



People.... when a child comes to you and tells you that an adult did something to them. Believe the child. Don't be so quick to send your child to sleep overs. Child molesters do not look like monsters. They look like our fathers, grandfathers, brothers, uncles, boyfriends,clergy, teachers of both sexes, even aunts and mothers. The internet has also brought the magnitude of this problem to light, but what are we going to do about it?


A lot of the characteristics that you say are that of a pedophile. Child molestors and pedophiles are not interchangable. A pedophile has an average of 240 victims. Most are mentally ill/ have a sexual interest in children and cannot control themselves. Child Molestors are people who have been molested who molest others. It is usually random and they do it out of revenge and anger of what has been done to them. So this can be someone who had inapproiate contact/sex etc. with someone who is five years younger.it is possible that Child Molestors only offend one or a couple of children in their lifetime and have no sexual interest in children what so ever. Like i said early, they are doing it out of anger or revenge of what has been done to them. People need to remember that these terms are not interchangable.


I have never heard of this distinction between the terms before, but I will look it up. Sounds like a semantics to me.
"It's hard 4 me 2 say what's right when all I want to do is wrong..."
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Reply #27 posted 08/09/09 5:19pm

BoOTyLiCioUs

funkteer said:

I was a Child Protective Services worker for 7 years and one of the reasons I had to get out was the the FACT that most child molesters get away with molesting children. These are some of the things I learned:

-This crime usually has no witnesses, and the perp is usually smart enough not to leave behind his DNA. They don't molest ALL the children they come into contact with. They pick their victims very carefully. The assertive kid, with strong, very involved parents, is not a good victim.

-Children usually do not lie about being molested. The sad fact is that most don't tell at all, or tell years later. When they do tell, many are not believed. I have see many mothers, and grandmothers blame the child. They kept their man, and let us take their children into foster care. One mother let us keep her 12 year old daughter in foster care, calling her a liar and a whore, and let her husband remain in the home with her other two daughters.

-When you have a crime where a child is the only witness, any lawyer, let alone a millionaire's lawyer, would have no problem casting reasonable doubt. When the children finally tell, often months or years later, they don't remember the date, or the details. They make very good witnesses for the DEFENSE. That is why we have so many sexual predators living in our neighborhoods, free to molest more children. Poor child molesters get away with this crime, just as easy as rich child molesters.

-From what I have seen and read, there is no successful rehabilitation or treatment for sex offenders.

-Food for thought.... an insurance company paid out $25,000,000 to make the first case go away. Has anyone here tried to get $1000 out of an insurance company for a fender bender? Hell, the insurance company for the MJ's London concerts doesn't look like they want to pay a dime because he died doing drugs.

-Martin Bashir did not force MJ to admit that it is the most beautiful thing in the world to sleep with children, etc. That came right out of the horse's mouth.

-As a child welfare worker, if I had discovered all the drugs that Michael was taking while caring for his own children, I might have removed them from his home, pending his completion of a drug program.



I was a big Jackson 5 and MJ fan growing up, but from following his life's story and the child molestation cases, I have trouble separating the entertainer from the man.



People.... when a child comes to you and tells you that an adult did something to them. Believe the child. Don't be so quick to send your child to sleep overs. Child molesters do not look like monsters. They look like our fathers, grandfathers, brothers, uncles, boyfriends,clergy, teachers of both sexes, even aunts and mothers. The internet has also brought the magnitude of this problem to light, but what are we going to do about it?


A lot of victims don't tell or take years to tell. I was sexually abused as a child and it took me 9 years to tell my parents what had happened. However, even thought it happened 12-15 years ago, I still remember it vividly, knowing what time of year it was and what was done to me....even how many times as well. It's not something you forget.
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Reply #28 posted 08/09/09 5:21pm

BoOTyLiCioUs

funkteer said:

BoOTyLiCioUs said:



A lot of the characteristics that you say are that of a pedophile. Child molestors and pedophiles are not interchangable. A pedophile has an average of 240 victims. Most are mentally ill/ have a sexual interest in children and cannot control themselves. Child Molestors are people who have been molested who molest others. It is usually random and they do it out of revenge and anger of what has been done to them. So this can be someone who had inapproiate contact/sex etc. with someone who is five years younger.it is possible that Child Molestors only offend one or a couple of children in their lifetime and have no sexual interest in children what so ever. Like i said early, they are doing it out of anger or revenge of what has been done to them. People need to remember that these terms are not interchangable.


I have never heard of this distinction between the terms before, but I will look it up. Sounds like a semantics to me.


semantics? This was discussed in my Psychology of Sex textbox of the class i took at college which was the Psychology of Sex.
[Edited 8/9/09 17:26pm]
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Reply #29 posted 08/09/09 5:25pm

BoOTyLiCioUs

LightOfArt said:

Jackson engaged in equally outrageous (and suspicion generating) actions—many of them characteristic of pedophiles—and then he is shocked—shocked!


err Jackson was examined by a psychiatrist hired by the prosecutors during the trial, and the guy said that MJ does not fit into the profile of a pedo and that he is '' a regressed 10 year old ''

One case of alleged pedophilia against Jackson, the details of which would make your hair stand on end


yeah like Chandler's drawing of MJ's penis. which was more of a smurf house. Oh and Chandler also said MJ was circumsized lol

This is just bad and lazy journalism designed for shock value. well not that shocking actually. nothing that has not been said before. but hey they wanna give the sheeps what they wanna hear.
[Edited 8/9/09 15:06pm]


It is bad journalism for shock value. they really need to look at the whole picture instead of knit picking certain things that support their views.
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